On September 02 2011 17:35 DrTJEckleburg wrote: I don't see how the argument of "it's the player's money, let them share it if the want" holds any merit. It is completely true that it is there money to spend as they please, obviously in any way they prefer whether for rent, food, or pornography, etc.
The condescending attitude that is being expressed by ReignFayth(forgive me, no other progamer is really posting in this thread as much as you) is not appropriate. Yes, you may be getting these prize winnings and it may be an extremely low amount of money to support your hard lifestyle or the hardships you surely endure; unfortunately, your situation means nothing to me in terms of legitimacy and professionalism. Where else do you see this type of behavior in sports? It's an honest question, I may just be ignorant but it's not like Jimmie Johnson of NASCAR shares with his teammate Jeff Gordon because they finish 1-2 in a season or whatever.
Honestly, do you really think this many people(spectators) would find this unacceptable or illegitimate purely because of the fact that we are all ignorant to your progaming lifestyles and society? Not all of us are people out for blood and drama, I rarely post on this forum or particpate in eSports anymore, but that doesn't mean my judgment is impaired. Please understand that we have concerns about the direction that this may take Starcraft II as an eSport just the same as steroids affects baseball(obviously steroids would be cheating as opposed to this though.)
The vibe I get is that you feel it is okay to do because it's always been done apparently(from WC3, though I don't think I(or my team, of course) ever considered splitting in the dozens upon dozens of CS LANs I participated in throughout the years.) Labeling an entire community of people as ignorant and mis-informed is only a way to make yourself look worse; same with TT1 threatening to leave the TL community because he is being judged for his actions? Ridiculous.
its really simple:
its technically NOT their money at all, not until it transfers ownership after the games. therefore, the tournament can decide what to do with it. They havent won it yet, so its not theirs at all. And you cant agree to give away someone elses money. If you agree to a split beforehand it becomes okay AFTER getting the money. But, the tournament gives players money on the basis that they are seriously competing for it. So, players that do this are really cheating the tournament by not providing what they're being paid to provide. As such, this is basically fraud.
And people wonder why microsoft, RIAA, MPAA, and ISPs like comcast and such are so shady. Its your lives people, and you're making it by saying its Okay to commit fraud as long as two friends benefit from it.
Enron, people?
It's not their money? Where the fuck do you think the people running the tournament gets the money from? Oh that's right, from people watching the games. And who plays in the games? Yep, you guessed it, the players.
What kind of messed up world do you live in where it's fraud for two people to make an agreement between themselves?
Your example of two people making an agreement between themselves is me and my friend place a wager on a game of Starcraft 2, where we each buy in for $5 and the winner gets $7 and the loser gets $3. Before the game, we agree to split the winnings where we each get $5. Yes, in your scenario, there is nothing wrong with this deal, other than it's completely stupid.
However, your example does not take into account the financial investment of the event organizers and sponsors, who are investing in a "COMPETITIVE TOURNAMENT" with a specific negotiated prize structure. These people are what is considered a third party. The two friends are no longer by themselves, they are concealing a secret deal from the third party who has a financial interest in this deal not existing. There is quite the difference.
On September 02 2011 18:10 GLLvz wrote: if its 50/50 i would say it should be illigal, if its 60/50 to balance the top price out, and there's a motivation for you to play to ur best ability, and not just try to be done as quick as possible. then i think its fine.
I'd make 60/50 anytime, who pays the extra 10%? :-)
edit: Btw. I think people who say that, without the extra prize money the players have no drive to win over their teammates in a broadcasted match, are underestimating the players quite a bit. Of course you want to win, it raises your reputation and your market value, but betting so much money on it is quite hard to do. Even professional poker players like to deal it twice when the pot has gotten big.
On September 02 2011 07:57 ToD wrote: Splitting when meeting a teammate in finals of a tour is standard imo, ofcourse both players should feel as motivated to take the championship as usual otherwise the finals might be ruined, i remember splitting in the finals of at least 2 major tournaments in WC3 which i actually ended up winning, one of them actually was 30k$ for first prize, i kept my word, went to the bank and wired what was agreed to Grubby.
<3 ^^ its not a question of the act but of who commited the act.. and apart from 1 game(which was a 2base carrier not 1) the rest of the series was completly standard
i know i said i wouldnt post anymore but i promise this is my last post
On September 02 2011 07:57 ToD wrote: Splitting when meeting a teammate in finals of a tour is standard imo, ofcourse both players should feel as motivated to take the championship as usual otherwise the finals might be ruined, i remember splitting in the finals of at least 2 major tournaments in WC3 which i actually ended up winning, one of them actually was 30k$ for first prize, i kept my word, went to the bank and wired what was agreed to Grubby.
<3 ^^ its not a question of the act but of who commited the act.. and apart from 1 game(which was a 2base carrier not 1) the rest of the series was completly standard
i know i said i wouldnt post anymore but i promise this is my last post
Found it.
The question is - is his first statement true or the second
Can't believe the Stephano/Bratok games have been brought into this thread, that's an entirely different situation caused by another example of terrible tournament structure (not condoning bratok's actions at all, but if they ran their tourney sensibly it never becomes a factor)
I just read this whole thread. Kaitlin and Medrea are pretty much everything that is wrong with SC community. Long posts with zero logic and sense. I mean ffs the guy is talking about how in 20 years there will be drug tests in sc tournaments... mindblown.
On September 02 2011 18:31 hrvoje07 wrote: I just read this whole thread. Kaitlin and Medrea are pretty much everything that is wrong with SC community. Long posts with zero logic and sense. I mean ffs the guy is talking about how in 20 years there will be drug tests in sc tournaments... mindblown.
Gee thanks. And what did you add to the discussion?
I actually cant understand how people consider this okay. Yeah i understand that its not "match-fixing" but it kinda makes the game completely useless and not exiting to watch.
Imagine Nadal and Federer agreeing to split the money after the championship game in the US-open. If that would come out they would both be banned from playing ( or atleast get a good slap on the wrist).
I understand that you think progamers will play their hearts out regardless of money and that TT1 proved you wrong. I am not missing anything.
My primary point is that the incentive to win is there not because of the prizepool. Bringing up a case to the contrary doesn't invalidate any argument. I'm making an argument for what is the case for most progamers.
But he provides evidence for his post, when you present none for your own.
Evidence for my argument? My argument was that the incentive to win is there regardless of prize pool. Why the fuck would anybody compete in MLG. The only players who will on average net a profit from flying across the globe to MLG would be the 4 koreans put in group play. Everyone else is playing for love for the game, competition, or for sponsors.
Just because players like TT1 ignore all incentives except for cash prizes doesn't invalidate any argument. All it does is prove there are idiots out there who don't give a shit about the game or competition. TT1 proved that a long time ago. Thats why TT1 will probably never have fans and that's also why he should go find a new job anyway if all he wants is cash
hahaha i dont care about the competition, thats the only reason why i still play this game u think naniwa is a hardcore competitor? just because hes been in the spotlight much longer than me that doesnt mean he has more heart/drive than me, u dont know the half it bro
i promise u theres no one in this game that wants to win to more than me, whenever i get knocked out of tournament i dont even stick around in the tournament area because i feel so ashamed of myself, youve never seen me once i get home after one of my failed mlg runs, i get so fucking depressed that i start thinking my future and whether or not im washed up and should quit playing, u dont know wat goes through my head so pls dont act like u do
If losing makes you so depressed why did you 1base carrier?
Exactly. That's the 1 million dollar question.
I hope this gets the proper attention.
Why does TheBest cheese all the time when he normally plays incredibly solid macro games in practice? Why did Moon 6-pool in the Dreamhack finals when he's shown that he can beat Huk in a macro game?
There's really no way to definitively prove that TT1 actually "threw" the game short of asking him for a written confession.
He did write it though. On the forums anwyay.
i was overexagerrating about 1base carriering, watch the game =] it wasnt a random illogical tech to carriers.. i went 2base charge into carriers
Found another post. Anyone know where you can watch the game?
I missed an important point here or the hole thread is total pointless.
After the winner gets the money its his money. He can do with his money whatever he wants. So if he give a friend half of his money you can not disallow this. No one throw a match, everyone try to win, no one broke any rules...
And even if you want to make rules that disallow the winner to give his money to a friend or disallow him to buy a car or candy or whatever, he can just buy a peace of shit from the other one for 5k. people who want to make this illegal didn't understand law at all...
On September 02 2011 10:55 billyX333 wrote: [quote] My primary point is that the incentive to win is there not because of the prizepool. Bringing up a case to the contrary doesn't invalidate any argument. I'm making an argument for what is the case for most progamers.
But he provides evidence for his post, when you present none for your own.
Evidence for my argument? My argument was that the incentive to win is there regardless of prize pool. Why the fuck would anybody compete in MLG. The only players who will on average net a profit from flying across the globe to MLG would be the 4 koreans put in group play. Everyone else is playing for love for the game, competition, or for sponsors.
Just because players like TT1 ignore all incentives except for cash prizes doesn't invalidate any argument. All it does is prove there are idiots out there who don't give a shit about the game or competition. TT1 proved that a long time ago. Thats why TT1 will probably never have fans and that's also why he should go find a new job anyway if all he wants is cash
hahaha i dont care about the competition, thats the only reason why i still play this game u think naniwa is a hardcore competitor? just because hes been in the spotlight much longer than me that doesnt mean he has more heart/drive than me, u dont know the half it bro
i promise u theres no one in this game that wants to win to more than me, whenever i get knocked out of tournament i dont even stick around in the tournament area because i feel so ashamed of myself, youve never seen me once i get home after one of my failed mlg runs, i get so fucking depressed that i start thinking my future and whether or not im washed up and should quit playing, u dont know wat goes through my head so pls dont act like u do
If losing makes you so depressed why did you 1base carrier?
Exactly. That's the 1 million dollar question.
I hope this gets the proper attention.
Why does TheBest cheese all the time when he normally plays incredibly solid macro games in practice? Why did Moon 6-pool in the Dreamhack finals when he's shown that he can beat Huk in a macro game?
There's really no way to definitively prove that TT1 actually "threw" the game short of asking him for a written confession.
He did write it though. On the forums anwyay.
i was overexagerrating about 1base carriering, watch the game =] it wasnt a random illogical tech to carriers.. i went 2base charge into carriers
Found another post. Anyone know where you can watch the game?
Im still looking for the tournament rules honestly. What was the exact name of the entire tournament?
On September 02 2011 10:55 billyX333 wrote: [quote] My primary point is that the incentive to win is there not because of the prizepool. Bringing up a case to the contrary doesn't invalidate any argument. I'm making an argument for what is the case for most progamers.
But he provides evidence for his post, when you present none for your own.
Evidence for my argument? My argument was that the incentive to win is there regardless of prize pool. Why the fuck would anybody compete in MLG. The only players who will on average net a profit from flying across the globe to MLG would be the 4 koreans put in group play. Everyone else is playing for love for the game, competition, or for sponsors.
Just because players like TT1 ignore all incentives except for cash prizes doesn't invalidate any argument. All it does is prove there are idiots out there who don't give a shit about the game or competition. TT1 proved that a long time ago. Thats why TT1 will probably never have fans and that's also why he should go find a new job anyway if all he wants is cash
hahaha i dont care about the competition, thats the only reason why i still play this game u think naniwa is a hardcore competitor? just because hes been in the spotlight much longer than me that doesnt mean he has more heart/drive than me, u dont know the half it bro
i promise u theres no one in this game that wants to win to more than me, whenever i get knocked out of tournament i dont even stick around in the tournament area because i feel so ashamed of myself, youve never seen me once i get home after one of my failed mlg runs, i get so fucking depressed that i start thinking my future and whether or not im washed up and should quit playing, u dont know wat goes through my head so pls dont act like u do
If losing makes you so depressed why did you 1base carrier?
Exactly. That's the 1 million dollar question.
I hope this gets the proper attention.
Why does TheBest cheese all the time when he normally plays incredibly solid macro games in practice? Why did Moon 6-pool in the Dreamhack finals when he's shown that he can beat Huk in a macro game?
There's really no way to definitively prove that TT1 actually "threw" the game short of asking him for a written confession.
He did write it though. On the forums anwyay.
i was overexagerrating about 1base carriering, watch the game =] it wasnt a random illogical tech to carriers.. i went 2base charge into carriers
Found another post. Anyone know where you can watch the game?
Oh, I missed this post - would love to watch the games indeed...only way to find out if they were played seriously.
On September 02 2011 17:35 DrTJEckleburg wrote: I don't see how the argument of "it's the player's money, let them share it if the want" holds any merit. It is completely true that it is there money to spend as they please, obviously in any way they prefer whether for rent, food, or pornography, etc.
The condescending attitude that is being expressed by ReignFayth(forgive me, no other progamer is really posting in this thread as much as you) is not appropriate. Yes, you may be getting these prize winnings and it may be an extremely low amount of money to support your hard lifestyle or the hardships you surely endure; unfortunately, your situation means nothing to me in terms of legitimacy and professionalism. Where else do you see this type of behavior in sports? It's an honest question, I may just be ignorant but it's not like Jimmie Johnson of NASCAR shares with his teammate Jeff Gordon because they finish 1-2 in a season or whatever.
Honestly, do you really think this many people(spectators) would find this unacceptable or illegitimate purely because of the fact that we are all ignorant to your progaming lifestyles and society? Not all of us are people out for blood and drama, I rarely post on this forum or particpate in eSports anymore, but that doesn't mean my judgment is impaired. Please understand that we have concerns about the direction that this may take Starcraft II as an eSport just the same as steroids affects baseball(obviously steroids would be cheating as opposed to this though.)
The vibe I get is that you feel it is okay to do because it's always been done apparently(from WC3, though I don't think I(or my team, of course) ever considered splitting in the dozens upon dozens of CS LANs I participated in throughout the years.) Labeling an entire community of people as ignorant and mis-informed is only a way to make yourself look worse; same with TT1 threatening to leave the TL community because he is being judged for his actions? Ridiculous.
its really simple:
its technically NOT their money at all, not until it transfers ownership after the games. therefore, the tournament can decide what to do with it. They havent won it yet, so its not theirs at all. And you cant agree to give away someone elses money. If you agree to a split beforehand it becomes okay AFTER getting the money. But, the tournament gives players money on the basis that they are seriously competing for it. So, players that do this are really cheating the tournament by not providing what they're being paid to provide. As such, this is basically fraud.
And people wonder why microsoft, RIAA, MPAA, and ISPs like comcast and such are so shady. Its your lives people, and you're making it by saying its Okay to commit fraud as long as two friends benefit from it.
Enron, people?
It's not their money? Where the fuck do you think the people running the tournament gets the money from? Oh that's right, from people watching the games. And who plays in the games? Yep, you guessed it, the players.
What kind of messed up world do you live in where it's fraud for two people to make an agreement between themselves?
Your example of two people making an agreement between themselves is me and my friend place a wager on a game of Starcraft 2, where we each buy in for $5 and the winner gets $7 and the loser gets $3. Before the game, we agree to split the winnings where we each get $5. Yes, in your scenario, there is nothing wrong with this deal, other than it's completely stupid.
However, your example does not take into account the financial investment of the event organizers and sponsors, who are investing in a "COMPETITIVE TOURNAMENT" with a specific negotiated prize structure. These people are what is considered a third party. The two friends are no longer by themselves, they are concealing a secret deal from the third party who has a financial interest in this deal not existing. There is quite the difference.
Deal making does not remove the competitive aspect of the game. If they're under contract from sponsors or from the specific tournament that no deal making shall be made then it would be unethical for them to do so.
On September 02 2011 18:35 skeldark wrote: I missed an important point here or the hole thread is total pointless.
After the winner gets the money its his money. He can do with his money whatever he wants. So if he give a friend half of his money you can not disallow this. No one throw a match, everyone try to win, no one broke any rules...
You can't say no one broke any rules unless you can show that "deal making" regarding splitting of prizes is acceptable. In the entirety of this thread, we've seen links to cases of players being banned from MLG (not SC2 related, however) and pro players weighing in that it's done and they just need to keep it quiet. Based on what do you conclude that "no one broke any rules" in a prize-splitting agreement before a match ?
On September 02 2011 18:34 aderum wrote: I actually cant understand how people consider this okay. Yeah i understand that its not "match-fixing" but it kinda makes the game completely useless and not exiting to watch.
Imagine Nadal and Federer agreeing to split the money after the championship game in the US-open. If that would come out they would both be banned from playing ( or atleast get a good slap on the wrist).
This is simply not okay.
I guess it's a matter of what you care the most about. Most progamers got into this because they only care about winning, money is a nice bonus on the side if you eventually win, but also adds a shitton of pressure, taking your focus off the actual game and prestige.
By splitting, you "only" have the feat of winning a big prestigous tournament left to compete for which is actually why they are there anyways.
Who goes to MLG for the money anyways? (not counting the big finals here obviously) MLG is such a popular tournament now because of how prestige it's considered to win it, not because you win 5000$ which is easily outdone by any other medium-sized EU tournament anyways.
My own personal standpoint though; Splitting is generally only "okay" if it's either a really close friend or teammate. Two players who have nothing in common or no friendship at all should never agree or attempt a split. You split with teammates and the occasional close friend, because these people are people you don't want to "hurt" (i.e. taking their money away) and this way you both get equal amount of money while you can still compete about who's actually the best player (which is whats important in the end anyways).
If you agree to split, make sure that you don't forget the most important thing, try your absolute best and do what you went there to do, win the god damn tournament. Otherwise you're cheating yourself, the audience and the tournament.
I don't think it's "match fixing" so much as it's "match indifference". It should be regulated, but if both players agree to it, I don't see it as actively harmful as long as it's never an option to throw / skip a series. If players want to do it, they should still be able to produce good games.
On September 02 2011 18:35 skeldark wrote: I missed an important point here or the hole thread is total pointless.
After the winner gets the money its his money. He can do with his money whatever he wants. So if he give a friend half of his money you can not disallow this. No one throw a match, everyone try to win, no one broke any rules...
You can't say no one broke any rules unless you can show that "deal making" regarding splitting of prizes is acceptable. In the entirety of this thread, we've seen links to cases of players being banned from MLG (not SC2 related, however) and pro players weighing in that it's done and they just need to keep it quiet. Based on what do you conclude that "no one broke any rules" in a prize-splitting agreement before a match ?
Is there a rule over how to spend the money after you won? Even if they make such a rule its pointless because you cannot say how he should spend HIS money... and lets say A and B are in the finals and make a deal. But the tournament say: you are not allowed to give YOUR pricemoney to someone else
Than he can: give it to Cc and C give it to B or give B 2500 from OTHER money he owns or buy something from B for 2500. you see how pointless it is try to force people how they should spend there money?
On September 02 2011 17:35 DrTJEckleburg wrote: I don't see how the argument of "it's the player's money, let them share it if the want" holds any merit. It is completely true that it is there money to spend as they please, obviously in any way they prefer whether for rent, food, or pornography, etc.
The condescending attitude that is being expressed by ReignFayth(forgive me, no other progamer is really posting in this thread as much as you) is not appropriate. Yes, you may be getting these prize winnings and it may be an extremely low amount of money to support your hard lifestyle or the hardships you surely endure; unfortunately, your situation means nothing to me in terms of legitimacy and professionalism. Where else do you see this type of behavior in sports? It's an honest question, I may just be ignorant but it's not like Jimmie Johnson of NASCAR shares with his teammate Jeff Gordon because they finish 1-2 in a season or whatever.
Honestly, do you really think this many people(spectators) would find this unacceptable or illegitimate purely because of the fact that we are all ignorant to your progaming lifestyles and society? Not all of us are people out for blood and drama, I rarely post on this forum or particpate in eSports anymore, but that doesn't mean my judgment is impaired. Please understand that we have concerns about the direction that this may take Starcraft II as an eSport just the same as steroids affects baseball(obviously steroids would be cheating as opposed to this though.)
The vibe I get is that you feel it is okay to do because it's always been done apparently(from WC3, though I don't think I(or my team, of course) ever considered splitting in the dozens upon dozens of CS LANs I participated in throughout the years.) Labeling an entire community of people as ignorant and mis-informed is only a way to make yourself look worse; same with TT1 threatening to leave the TL community because he is being judged for his actions? Ridiculous.
its really simple:
its technically NOT their money at all, not until it transfers ownership after the games. therefore, the tournament can decide what to do with it. They havent won it yet, so its not theirs at all. And you cant agree to give away someone elses money. If you agree to a split beforehand it becomes okay AFTER getting the money. But, the tournament gives players money on the basis that they are seriously competing for it. So, players that do this are really cheating the tournament by not providing what they're being paid to provide. As such, this is basically fraud.
And people wonder why microsoft, RIAA, MPAA, and ISPs like comcast and such are so shady. Its your lives people, and you're making it by saying its Okay to commit fraud as long as two friends benefit from it.
Enron, people?
It's not their money? Where the fuck do you think the people running the tournament gets the money from? Oh that's right, from people watching the games. And who plays in the games? Yep, you guessed it, the players.
What kind of messed up world do you live in where it's fraud for two people to make an agreement between themselves?
Your example of two people making an agreement between themselves is me and my friend place a wager on a game of Starcraft 2, where we each buy in for $5 and the winner gets $7 and the loser gets $3. Before the game, we agree to split the winnings where we each get $5. Yes, in your scenario, there is nothing wrong with this deal, other than it's completely stupid.
However, your example does not take into account the financial investment of the event organizers and sponsors, who are investing in a "COMPETITIVE TOURNAMENT" with a specific negotiated prize structure. These people are what is considered a third party. The two friends are no longer by themselves, they are concealing a secret deal from the third party who has a financial interest in this deal not existing. There is quite the difference.
Deal making does not remove the competitive aspect of the game. If they're under contract from sponsors or from the specific tournament that no deal making shall be made then it would be unethical for them to do so.
If they signed a contract not to do it, it's not just unethical lol.
There is a new show on TV in the U.S. called "Take the Money and Run" wherein a team of 2 contestants have 1 hour to hide a briefcase of $100,000. Then, a team of 2 detectives has 48 hours to find the briefcase. If the cops find it, they win the $100,000, otherwise, the 2 that hid it, win the money. If the two teams made a deal to split the money and each got $50,000, how long would this show be on the air ? What's the difference ?
On September 02 2011 17:35 DrTJEckleburg wrote: I don't see how the argument of "it's the player's money, let them share it if the want" holds any merit. It is completely true that it is there money to spend as they please, obviously in any way they prefer whether for rent, food, or pornography, etc.
The condescending attitude that is being expressed by ReignFayth(forgive me, no other progamer is really posting in this thread as much as you) is not appropriate. Yes, you may be getting these prize winnings and it may be an extremely low amount of money to support your hard lifestyle or the hardships you surely endure; unfortunately, your situation means nothing to me in terms of legitimacy and professionalism. Where else do you see this type of behavior in sports? It's an honest question, I may just be ignorant but it's not like Jimmie Johnson of NASCAR shares with his teammate Jeff Gordon because they finish 1-2 in a season or whatever.
Honestly, do you really think this many people(spectators) would find this unacceptable or illegitimate purely because of the fact that we are all ignorant to your progaming lifestyles and society? Not all of us are people out for blood and drama, I rarely post on this forum or particpate in eSports anymore, but that doesn't mean my judgment is impaired. Please understand that we have concerns about the direction that this may take Starcraft II as an eSport just the same as steroids affects baseball(obviously steroids would be cheating as opposed to this though.)
The vibe I get is that you feel it is okay to do because it's always been done apparently(from WC3, though I don't think I(or my team, of course) ever considered splitting in the dozens upon dozens of CS LANs I participated in throughout the years.) Labeling an entire community of people as ignorant and mis-informed is only a way to make yourself look worse; same with TT1 threatening to leave the TL community because he is being judged for his actions? Ridiculous.
its really simple:
its technically NOT their money at all, not until it transfers ownership after the games. therefore, the tournament can decide what to do with it. They havent won it yet, so its not theirs at all. And you cant agree to give away someone elses money. If you agree to a split beforehand it becomes okay AFTER getting the money. But, the tournament gives players money on the basis that they are seriously competing for it. So, players that do this are really cheating the tournament by not providing what they're being paid to provide. As such, this is basically fraud.
And people wonder why microsoft, RIAA, MPAA, and ISPs like comcast and such are so shady. Its your lives people, and you're making it by saying its Okay to commit fraud as long as two friends benefit from it.
Enron, people?
It's not their money? Where the fuck do you think the people running the tournament gets the money from? Oh that's right, from people watching the games. And who plays in the games? Yep, you guessed it, the players.
What kind of messed up world do you live in where it's fraud for two people to make an agreement between themselves?
Your example of two people making an agreement between themselves is me and my friend place a wager on a game of Starcraft 2, where we each buy in for $5 and the winner gets $7 and the loser gets $3. Before the game, we agree to split the winnings where we each get $5. Yes, in your scenario, there is nothing wrong with this deal, other than it's completely stupid.
However, your example does not take into account the financial investment of the event organizers and sponsors, who are investing in a "COMPETITIVE TOURNAMENT" with a specific negotiated prize structure. These people are what is considered a third party. The two friends are no longer by themselves, they are concealing a secret deal from the third party who has a financial interest in this deal not existing. There is quite the difference.
Deal making does not remove the competitive aspect of the game. If they're under contract from sponsors or from the specific tournament that no deal making shall be made then it would be unethical for them to do so.
If they signed a contract not to do it, it's not just unethical lol.
There is a new show on TV in the U.S. called "Take the Money and Run" wherein a team of 2 contestants have 1 hour to hide a briefcase of $100,000. Then, a team of 2 detectives has 48 hours to find the briefcase. If the cops find it, they win the $100,000, otherwise, the 2 that hid it, win the money. If the two teams made a deal to split the money and each got $50,000, how long would this show be on the air ? What's the difference ?
the difference is that it's a show? you don't work 8-10 hours a day to earn those 100k
EPT
