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On September 02 2011 12:52 Tektos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 12:51 FawkingGoomba wrote:
If you're in the finals of an MLG and suddenly there's no prizepool. You're still going to try your hardest because winning an MLG has benefits other than the slight prizepool difference.
"Oh no! I'm not getting any prize money! Time to throw the game!" <---- This doesn't fucking happen. If MLG offered no prize money people wouldn't show up in the first place.
First place is $5k. It's already a tiny prize.
The reason why that place is so coveted is because of the exposure.
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1) Match-fixing to fuck someone over happened
2) They did it publicly, which the sponsors obviously didn't like
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On September 02 2011 12:54 ReignFayth wrote:read carefully, they didn't just split the prize pool, someone forfeited matches so it was match fixing really
It's really easy to blur that line.
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On September 02 2011 12:52 Almin2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 12:48 FawkingGoomba wrote:On September 02 2011 12:45 Almin2 wrote:On September 02 2011 12:44 FawkingGoomba wrote:On September 02 2011 12:42 exShikari wrote:On September 02 2011 12:40 FawkingGoomba wrote:On September 02 2011 12:39 Almin2 wrote:On September 02 2011 12:33 Xavv wrote:
If anybody thinks that setting up finals for anything in eSports and having teammates or friends split a tournament prize pool is helpful to eSports AT ALL they are dilusional.
This forum is bleeding with people who claim to have passion for playing Video Games professionally as a Career and that becoming more of a mainstream thing, it blows my mind how somebody claiming to be part of that movement can be agreeing to this.
If people want others to take this seriously it has to be done and played out in a serious way, Otherwise the rest of the world is just going to think we're a bunch of lazy idiots wanting to get paid to play video games.
What happened to the value of competition? I completely agree. To say this isn't practically match fixing is terribly wrong. Its because they won't care about quality of games to provide a proper show for the viewers because they'll be getting paid either way. There's something different when a person WANTS 1st place, not 2nd, or 3rd. Money should be a motivator. Players have no obligation to you. Yes they do. Without the fans they have no jobs. It's their responsibility to conduct themselves in a professional manner. Go play your best friend for 1 million dollars. Winner takes 90%, loser takes 10%. Then tell me that prize splitting should be banned. Go and tell me if they split money, that they played to the best of their ability regardless of monetary outcome. I don't think they would. They'd play well, but not, top of their game since they've already won. So you'd agree to play your best friend of same skill in sc2 for 1 million dollars 90/10 split? 1) The prize pool wouldn't be that skewed 2) Probably wouldn't be the first or last 1 million dollar tournament 3) No I would not split the money. It crosses a moral line. If you won the lottery, would you give all your friends part of the pot, even if they also bought lottery tickets? I think not.
sir, you have no idea 
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On September 02 2011 12:52 Tektos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 12:51 FawkingGoomba wrote:
If you're in the finals of an MLG and suddenly there's no prizepool. You're still going to try your hardest because winning an MLG has benefits other than the slight prizepool difference.
"Oh no! I'm not getting any prize money! Time to throw the game!" <---- This doesn't fucking happen. If MLG offered no prize money people wouldn't show up in the first place.
The prize is tiny, and almost irrelevant to many players.
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On September 02 2011 12:54 FawkingGoomba wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 12:52 Almin2 wrote:On September 02 2011 12:48 FawkingGoomba wrote:On September 02 2011 12:45 Almin2 wrote:On September 02 2011 12:44 FawkingGoomba wrote:On September 02 2011 12:42 exShikari wrote:On September 02 2011 12:40 FawkingGoomba wrote:On September 02 2011 12:39 Almin2 wrote:On September 02 2011 12:33 Xavv wrote:
If anybody thinks that setting up finals for anything in eSports and having teammates or friends split a tournament prize pool is helpful to eSports AT ALL they are dilusional.
This forum is bleeding with people who claim to have passion for playing Video Games professionally as a Career and that becoming more of a mainstream thing, it blows my mind how somebody claiming to be part of that movement can be agreeing to this.
If people want others to take this seriously it has to be done and played out in a serious way, Otherwise the rest of the world is just going to think we're a bunch of lazy idiots wanting to get paid to play video games.
What happened to the value of competition? I completely agree. To say this isn't practically match fixing is terribly wrong. Its because they won't care about quality of games to provide a proper show for the viewers because they'll be getting paid either way. There's something different when a person WANTS 1st place, not 2nd, or 3rd. Money should be a motivator. Players have no obligation to you. Yes they do. Without the fans they have no jobs. It's their responsibility to conduct themselves in a professional manner. Go play your best friend for 1 million dollars. Winner takes 90%, loser takes 10%. Then tell me that prize splitting should be banned. Go and tell me if they split money, that they played to the best of their ability regardless of monetary outcome. I don't think they would. They'd play well, but not, top of their game since they've already won. So you'd agree to play your best friend of same skill in sc2 for 1 million dollars 90/10 split? 1) The prize pool wouldn't be that skewed 2) Probably wouldn't be the first or last 1 million dollar tournament 3) No I would not split the money. It crosses a moral line. If you won the lottery, would you give all your friends part of the pot, even if they also bought lottery tickets? I think not. 1) Exact percent don't really matter, there are tournaments with extremely skewed pots 2) Doesn't change the fact that it's 1million 3) Good joke.
1) Yes it does, there are currently extremely skewed pots but that only brings the worst in people hence the argument that pots shouldn't be skewed like that.
2) Yes it does, because if you've won 1million from a tournament previously you're less likely to make the decision to split regardless. If you haven't won 1mil from a tournament previously and you're never likely to win that much in a tournament and every single tournament was this ridiculously top heavy then you probably shouldn't be competing because you can't support yourself financially without making under the table deals with other players.
3) You're the joke.
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On September 02 2011 12:55 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 12:54 ReignFayth wrote:read carefully, they didn't just split the prize pool, someone forfeited matches so it was match fixing really It's really easy to blur that line.
Not really. As long as every party involved consents, it's not match fixing.
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On September 02 2011 12:56 FawkingGoomba wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 12:52 Tektos wrote:On September 02 2011 12:51 FawkingGoomba wrote:
If you're in the finals of an MLG and suddenly there's no prizepool. You're still going to try your hardest because winning an MLG has benefits other than the slight prizepool difference.
"Oh no! I'm not getting any prize money! Time to throw the game!" <---- This doesn't fucking happen. If MLG offered no prize money people wouldn't show up in the first place. The prize is tiny, and almost irrelevant to many players.
MLG is a well run tournament on all sides. I do believe more prizemoney is warranted. But so far the real gem is community support. Not the prize.
Its a big gem too, foreigner scene really likes MLG so far.
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On September 02 2011 12:56 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 12:52 Almin2 wrote:On September 02 2011 12:48 FawkingGoomba wrote:On September 02 2011 12:45 Almin2 wrote:On September 02 2011 12:44 FawkingGoomba wrote:On September 02 2011 12:42 exShikari wrote:On September 02 2011 12:40 FawkingGoomba wrote:On September 02 2011 12:39 Almin2 wrote:On September 02 2011 12:33 Xavv wrote:
If anybody thinks that setting up finals for anything in eSports and having teammates or friends split a tournament prize pool is helpful to eSports AT ALL they are dilusional.
This forum is bleeding with people who claim to have passion for playing Video Games professionally as a Career and that becoming more of a mainstream thing, it blows my mind how somebody claiming to be part of that movement can be agreeing to this.
If people want others to take this seriously it has to be done and played out in a serious way, Otherwise the rest of the world is just going to think we're a bunch of lazy idiots wanting to get paid to play video games.
What happened to the value of competition? I completely agree. To say this isn't practically match fixing is terribly wrong. Its because they won't care about quality of games to provide a proper show for the viewers because they'll be getting paid either way. There's something different when a person WANTS 1st place, not 2nd, or 3rd. Money should be a motivator. Players have no obligation to you. Yes they do. Without the fans they have no jobs. It's their responsibility to conduct themselves in a professional manner. Go play your best friend for 1 million dollars. Winner takes 90%, loser takes 10%. Then tell me that prize splitting should be banned. Go and tell me if they split money, that they played to the best of their ability regardless of monetary outcome. I don't think they would. They'd play well, but not, top of their game since they've already won. So you'd agree to play your best friend of same skill in sc2 for 1 million dollars 90/10 split? 1) The prize pool wouldn't be that skewed 2) Probably wouldn't be the first or last 1 million dollar tournament 3) No I would not split the money. It crosses a moral line. If you won the lottery, would you give all your friends part of the pot, even if they also bought lottery tickets? I think not. sir, you have no idea
Ahahaha, if I had a group of, say, five friends who would each fill out 1/5 of all the possible combinations for the lottery -- no repeats -- then I'd sure as hell split with them. 
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Sucks to be the guy that wins, though I still agree with my previous posts.
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On September 02 2011 12:57 FawkingGoomba wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 12:55 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 12:54 ReignFayth wrote:read carefully, they didn't just split the prize pool, someone forfeited matches so it was match fixing really It's really easy to blur that line. Not really. As long as every party involved consents, it's not match fixing.
Yeah but then some people want in halfway, some people want out, some people dont go through with it and so forth. It gets really ugly.
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On September 02 2011 12:57 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 12:56 FawkingGoomba wrote:On September 02 2011 12:52 Tektos wrote:On September 02 2011 12:51 FawkingGoomba wrote:
If you're in the finals of an MLG and suddenly there's no prizepool. You're still going to try your hardest because winning an MLG has benefits other than the slight prizepool difference.
"Oh no! I'm not getting any prize money! Time to throw the game!" <---- This doesn't fucking happen. If MLG offered no prize money people wouldn't show up in the first place. The prize is tiny, and almost irrelevant to many players. MLG is a well run tournament on all sides. I do believe more prizemoney is warranted. But so far the real gem is community support. Not the prize. Its a big gem too, foreigner scene really likes MLG so far.
Right, so when player from team 'X' splits with his teammate in the finals, do you think they're not going to try their hardest to win the finals?
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I think it should absolutely be allowed and okay to do, and this is because, without it, it wouldn't be profitable to have as many competitors as we do. and as we all know, the more competitors, the better.
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On September 02 2011 12:57 Tektos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 12:54 FawkingGoomba wrote:On September 02 2011 12:52 Almin2 wrote:On September 02 2011 12:48 FawkingGoomba wrote:On September 02 2011 12:45 Almin2 wrote:On September 02 2011 12:44 FawkingGoomba wrote:On September 02 2011 12:42 exShikari wrote:On September 02 2011 12:40 FawkingGoomba wrote:On September 02 2011 12:39 Almin2 wrote:On September 02 2011 12:33 Xavv wrote:
If anybody thinks that setting up finals for anything in eSports and having teammates or friends split a tournament prize pool is helpful to eSports AT ALL they are dilusional.
This forum is bleeding with people who claim to have passion for playing Video Games professionally as a Career and that becoming more of a mainstream thing, it blows my mind how somebody claiming to be part of that movement can be agreeing to this.
If people want others to take this seriously it has to be done and played out in a serious way, Otherwise the rest of the world is just going to think we're a bunch of lazy idiots wanting to get paid to play video games.
What happened to the value of competition? I completely agree. To say this isn't practically match fixing is terribly wrong. Its because they won't care about quality of games to provide a proper show for the viewers because they'll be getting paid either way. There's something different when a person WANTS 1st place, not 2nd, or 3rd. Money should be a motivator. Players have no obligation to you. Yes they do. Without the fans they have no jobs. It's their responsibility to conduct themselves in a professional manner. Go play your best friend for 1 million dollars. Winner takes 90%, loser takes 10%. Then tell me that prize splitting should be banned. Go and tell me if they split money, that they played to the best of their ability regardless of monetary outcome. I don't think they would. They'd play well, but not, top of their game since they've already won. So you'd agree to play your best friend of same skill in sc2 for 1 million dollars 90/10 split? 1) The prize pool wouldn't be that skewed 2) Probably wouldn't be the first or last 1 million dollar tournament 3) No I would not split the money. It crosses a moral line. If you won the lottery, would you give all your friends part of the pot, even if they also bought lottery tickets? I think not. 1) Exact percent don't really matter, there are tournaments with extremely skewed pots 2) Doesn't change the fact that it's 1million 3) Good joke. 1) Yes it does, there are currently extremely skewed pots but that only brings the worst in people hence the argument that pots shouldn't be skewed like that. 2) Yes it does, because if you've won 1million from a tournament previously you're less likely to make the decision to split regardless. If you haven't won 1mil from a tournament previously and you're never likely to win that much in a tournament and every single tournament was this ridiculously top heavy then you probably shouldn't be competing because you can't support yourself financially without making under the table deals with other players. 3) You're the joke.
most SC2 pro gamers are pretty damn broke, so nobody should be competing except a select few of us? get real
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On September 02 2011 12:56 FawkingGoomba wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 12:52 Tektos wrote:On September 02 2011 12:51 FawkingGoomba wrote:
If you're in the finals of an MLG and suddenly there's no prizepool. You're still going to try your hardest because winning an MLG has benefits other than the slight prizepool difference.
"Oh no! I'm not getting any prize money! Time to throw the game!" <---- This doesn't fucking happen. If MLG offered no prize money people wouldn't show up in the first place. The prize is tiny, and almost irrelevant to many players.
How many people do you think would show up to 2012 MLGs if they announced they're removing all prize money from the tournament?
Internationals wouldn't show up because they have to invest money to travel, for zero return on investment. With no Europeans or Koreans showing up the level of competition would severely diminish and the tournament would quickly fall out of the limelight.
On September 02 2011 12:55 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 12:52 Tektos wrote:On September 02 2011 12:51 FawkingGoomba wrote:
If you're in the finals of an MLG and suddenly there's no prizepool. You're still going to try your hardest because winning an MLG has benefits other than the slight prizepool difference.
"Oh no! I'm not getting any prize money! Time to throw the game!" <---- This doesn't fucking happen. If MLG offered no prize money people wouldn't show up in the first place. First place is $5k. It's already a tiny prize. The reason why that place is so coveted is because of the exposure.
$5k for 3 days effort is pretty good, not too many occupations offer that kind of income.
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On September 02 2011 12:59 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 12:57 FawkingGoomba wrote:On September 02 2011 12:55 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 12:54 ReignFayth wrote:read carefully, they didn't just split the prize pool, someone forfeited matches so it was match fixing really It's really easy to blur that line. Not really. As long as every party involved consents, it's not match fixing. Yeah but then some people want in halfway, some people want out, some people dont go through with it and so forth. It gets really ugly.
why do you think fenix got kicked out of Fnatic
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On September 02 2011 12:59 Tektos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 12:56 FawkingGoomba wrote:On September 02 2011 12:52 Tektos wrote:On September 02 2011 12:51 FawkingGoomba wrote:
If you're in the finals of an MLG and suddenly there's no prizepool. You're still going to try your hardest because winning an MLG has benefits other than the slight prizepool difference.
"Oh no! I'm not getting any prize money! Time to throw the game!" <---- This doesn't fucking happen. If MLG offered no prize money people wouldn't show up in the first place. The prize is tiny, and almost irrelevant to many players. How many people do you think would show up to 2012 MLGs if they announced they're removing all prize money from the tournament? Internationals wouldn't show up because they have to invest money to travel, for zero return on investment. With no Europeans or Koreans showing up the level of competition would severely diminish and the tournament would quickly fall out of the limelight.
Nobody goes to MLG for the prizepool.
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Let's be honest, the majority of people who play poker or other high stake activities such as MTG already know that many tournament winnings are getting chopped. It's a lot more common than you think.
And first place is still first place. Nobody is going to roll over and die to get the finals over with if a chop has been agreed. Winning MLG for example, probably offers more financial reward through exposure than the first place prizepool did.
I'm really just reiterating what others have posted before probably and I'm not sure what happened with TT1's carrier rush, regardless; Match fixing =/= Deal making. One is to be despised and the other is a compromise if two players feel that random chance is not worth the huge gap between first and second. The title is still always up for grabs.
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On September 02 2011 12:59 FawkingGoomba wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 12:57 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 12:56 FawkingGoomba wrote:On September 02 2011 12:52 Tektos wrote:On September 02 2011 12:51 FawkingGoomba wrote:
If you're in the finals of an MLG and suddenly there's no prizepool. You're still going to try your hardest because winning an MLG has benefits other than the slight prizepool difference.
"Oh no! I'm not getting any prize money! Time to throw the game!" <---- This doesn't fucking happen. If MLG offered no prize money people wouldn't show up in the first place. The prize is tiny, and almost irrelevant to many players. MLG is a well run tournament on all sides. I do believe more prizemoney is warranted. But so far the real gem is community support. Not the prize. Its a big gem too, foreigner scene really likes MLG so far. Right, so when player from team 'X' splits with his teammate in the finals, do you think they're not going to try their hardest to win the finals?
I think this issue is better directed at smaller tournaments to be honest, where the viewership is large enough where it is interesting, but not syndicated.
For MLG, the benefits of exposure is so high it kind of mutes the prize earnings.
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On September 02 2011 12:59 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 12:57 FawkingGoomba wrote:On September 02 2011 12:55 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 12:54 ReignFayth wrote:read carefully, they didn't just split the prize pool, someone forfeited matches so it was match fixing really It's really easy to blur that line. Not really. As long as every party involved consents, it's not match fixing. Yeah but then some people want in halfway, some people want out, some people dont go through with it and so forth. It gets really ugly.
And that's why fenix isn't in fnatic. It's only ugly because one player doesn't stick to their word.
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EPT
