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Can we stop talking about nerfing things please? - 9:10 KST |
On September 04 2011 04:24 TumbaStarcraft wrote:
I'm shocked more people aren't upset about Protoss guardian shield wasn't working vs. Siege tank. How long has this been an issue? Artosis was shocked on SOTG. I'm just wondering if that change will help vs the 111.
It depends if the guardian shield double dips, reducing both the initial impact and applying a second time to the splash.
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As I've played both Terran and Protoss before, I find that to hold off the 1/1/1 you run into the Terran's army when he's pushing out and just keep making him siege up in the middle of the map because without siege the Toss's army is better (for a little bit). And thus you gain time to make more and more units ( preferably zelaots ) and set up a surround. Although it is still quite difficult to hold off, but not impossible.
Another thought is that in BW the game was balanced VIA maps, why not the same thing is SC2? 1/1/1 is not AS difficult to defend on very large maps.
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On September 04 2011 03:30 MisterTea wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2011 03:24 hummingbird23 wrote:
This garbage is making the ladder nearly unplayable. Virtually every PvT has turned into this obscenity of a build order loss. There is no way in hell that +1 immortal range will fix this crap. it's just getting the right composition out and meeting the terran in the right place i give it a month and korean protoss will have a legit strat figured out
By "legit strat figured out" you mean the way Terrans found means to deal with lategame Toss Amulet-HT?
It is already happening man! Protosses are asking for nerfs/buffs just the way other races were, when they got 4gated, VoidRay'd, 5RRed, and destroyed by HT with KA.
On a more serious note: That build has been out for months, Thorzain actually used it to great succes against Naniwa in the TSL-finals in game 1 and it has become stronger and stronger to a point where PvT is a farce.
If you still argue that it will get figured out and if Blizzard had agreed on this principle a year ago, Idra would be playing Terran by now.
User was warned for this post
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I actually want to see 5 to 10 games in a row of Kiwikaki's build defending a code S level terran doing the 1/1/1.
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TvZ 2 Rax: Lasted less than a month before than people figured out how to beat it consistently, Blizzard basically hotfixed some things in a patch to help.
1/1/1: Has lasted over a year, and still hasn't been 'solved'. Blizzard doesn't release anything that can specifically crush the build, even in the new patch in a time when this specific build is ruining the matchup more than ever.
I think the solution is to simply QQ more, guys. Louder, harder, faster, stronger.
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On September 04 2011 04:43 Spicy Pepper wrote:
I actually want to see 5 to 10 games in a row of Kiwikaki's build defending a code S level terran doing the 1/1/1.
The Code S terran player would be better anyway though.
If Kiwikaki was as good as the Code S guy, wouldn't he be in Code S right now or winning MLGs (or atleast getting top 8)?
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On September 04 2011 04:36 Iamyournoob wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2011 03:30 MisterTea wrote:On September 04 2011 03:24 hummingbird23 wrote:
This garbage is making the ladder nearly unplayable. Virtually every PvT has turned into this obscenity of a build order loss. There is no way in hell that +1 immortal range will fix this crap. it's just getting the right composition out and meeting the terran in the right place i give it a month and korean protoss will have a legit strat figured out By "legit strat figured out" you mean the way Terrans found means to deal with lategame Toss Amulet-HT? .
ghosts/snipe/emp nobody used either back then they ust qq'd about how op templars were
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On September 04 2011 04:59 myriad110 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2011 04:43 Spicy Pepper wrote:
I actually want to see 5 to 10 games in a row of Kiwikaki's build defending a code S level terran doing the 1/1/1. The Code S terran player would be better anyway though. If Kiwikaki was as good as the Code S guy, wouldn't he be in Code S right now or winning MLGs (or atleast getting top 8)?
That's why I want to see it. I want to see the holes of that build clearly exploited. Much easier to see it against a Code S terran, than some avg terran pro.
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On September 04 2011 04:43 Spicy Pepper wrote:
That's why I want to see it. I want to see the holes of that build clearly exploited. Much easier to see it against a Code S terran, than some avg terran pro.
Oh, I see.
That'd be pretty cool to see.
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As a terran player, I personally wouldn't mind khadaryn amulet back in, provided it wasn't 75 energy, but somewhere around the 70-72 range, so there is the ability to do SOME damage harassing and not instantly get stormed to shit.
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Finally a build that forces a protoss to do more than just A click midgame!
User was warned for this post
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On September 04 2011 05:02 MisterTea wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2011 04:36 Iamyournoob wrote:On September 04 2011 03:30 MisterTea wrote:On September 04 2011 03:24 hummingbird23 wrote:
This garbage is making the ladder nearly unplayable. Virtually every PvT has turned into this obscenity of a build order loss. There is no way in hell that +1 immortal range will fix this crap. it's just getting the right composition out and meeting the terran in the right place i give it a month and korean protoss will have a legit strat figured out By "legit strat figured out" you mean the way Terrans found means to deal with lategame Toss Amulet-HT? . ghosts/snipe/emp nobody used either back then they ust qq'd about how op templars were
KA was too good you could just Warpin 1 Templar somewhere on the Map and instantly storm right there on SCV's / Armies . In big battles in wasn't imbalanced it was just too easy to instantly reeinforce with storm and pretty hard/next to impossible to kill even expansion of protoss players even after a won battles .They'd just instantly warpin templars and storm.
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On September 04 2011 05:09 acrimoneyius wrote:
As a terran player, I personally wouldn't mind khadaryn amulet back in, provided it wasn't 75 energy, but somewhere around the 70-72 range, so there is the ability to do SOME damage harassing and not instantly get stormed to shit.
As a terran player I'd like KA back in at 75 energy exactly.
Personally.
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Didn't KA enable 62 energy in BroodWar? What's wrong with that?
Blizzard sometimes butchers stuff instead of trimming it.
The KA upgrade makes perfect sense, but it was too strong.
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It might've been better for Blizzard to remove it, rather tweak it. It may make it easier to clarify the parameters of what is imbalanced.
So assume that KA at 75 energy might be too much, no KA might be too little, now you know the solution is somewhere in between, and can work on tweaking once you've established the boundaries.
Also, if after removing KA, P was still too strong late game vs T, then you would know that you could discard tweaking KA as a solution to balance. Of course, I'm assuming a complete disregard for design.
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Agreed. I would like to see SOME energy upgrade, but not 75. Protoss could definitely use a half or 2/3 strength KA back in the game.
High templar play is the most impressive thing Toss can do from a spectator's point of view anyway, and I think it should be encouraged rather than /yawn turtle to 200/200 Colossus+Void Ray+Blink Stalkers.
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On September 04 2011 04:24 TumbaStarcraft wrote:
I'm shocked more people aren't upset about Protoss guardian shield wasn't working vs. Siege tank. How long has this been an issue? Artosis was shocked on SOTG. I'm just wondering if that change will help vs the 111.
It's a change of 4-5% in the DPS of siege tanks only. Yes it will make a difference, but usually the T has much more than 5% of his army left after the 1/1/1 fight.
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On September 04 2011 05:50 fant0m wrote:
It's a change of 4-5% in the DPS of siege tanks only. Yes it will make a difference, but usually the T has much more than 5% of his army left after the 1/1/1 fight.
It's a lot more than 5% for some of the splash. For directly hit armored units, it would only be 4% reduction, but for unarmored units in the 25% zone it'd reduce damage by about 25%. It is certainly a buff, how much depends on the unit composition and positioning. People were using Guardian Shield anyway, just were totally unaware that it didn't do anything to siege tank fire.
Also the bit at the end is not how battles actually work. If one force has 5% more dps than the other, with equal everything else it will end up with a lot more than 5% of the army left in general.
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How about increasing the amount of energy a templar has? which is what the BW upgrade did, instead of giving it more energy to start
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On September 04 2011 04:36 Iamyournoob wrote:
If you still argue that it will get figured out and if Blizzard had agreed on this principle a year ago, Idra would be playing Terran by now.
I'm not sure if he would be playing Terran, but he might be requiring medical assistance in the form of a life support machine to help him recover from his coma.
On September 04 2011 06:08 MrSalamandra wrote:
Also the bit at the end is not how battles actually work. If one force has 5% more dps than the other, with equal everything else it will end up with a lot more than 5% of the army left in general.
That is correct. Whichever side has better DPS/health/whatever will win by a large amount, even if the difference is minute, assuming other variables are equal.
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This is turning out to a ugly QQ fest :/
Cmon guys keep it constructive please! 
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EPT
