Why 1/1/1 is considered to be imbalanced in Korea - Page 119

On August 24 2011 11:32 ProxyZooZ wrote:
Ok w/e ... so zerg has to go muta now cause thats the favorite style right now... and therefore terran should make potentially useless structures at their third base? And this all makes cannons not the strongest defensive structure against both 111 terran AND zerg how?

On August 24 2011 12:03 s3183529 wrote:
Don't understand why some people here here think they find the solution for 111. If you cannot stop a good 111 by koreans, then it's a problem. Koreans>all, and people cares more about Koreans playing SC2 more than anyone else. Do you think people wanna watch a bunch of foreigners playing SC2? All the major leagues invite Koreans cause they want to have quality games.
If you think you're so smart, stop Bomber or MVP 111 and post some vods.

On August 24 2011 12:14 Flonomenalz wrote:

It's theorycrafting for the sake of theorycrafting. It's not just about finding a solution for the 1/1/1 at high level play, masters/GM players also face the build too (not as well executed, but still). And as spectators, it's hard to just idly watch a build that seems so low risk high reward just destroy over and over again, so it's worth talking about.

What the fuck makes you think people don't wanna watch foreigners playing SC2? Arguably, if foreigners don't start stepping it up and winning tournaments that include Koreans, we're slowly going to see SC2 recede into just Korea in the same way BW was, so of course we care about the foreigner perspective.

tbh you sound retarded.

Can we get back to talking about the 1/1/1 now lol

On August 24 2011 12:23 Cyrak wrote:


The point is that for the purposes of discussion it's worthless to bring up solutions that wouldn't work against a high level Korean.

If there's a skill disparity that allows a certain build to beat 1/1/1 due to the Terran being unable to execute it properly then that's the reason why the Protoss won, not because the build order was able to 'solve' 1/1/1.

The only valid argument that can come from this chain of reasoning is that for the purposes of ladder play for 99.5% of players it's possible to improve your play to a level where you can beat an inferior 1/1/1 which is absolutely true.

However, this thread is largely dedicated to talking about the impact of 1/1/1 on the pro scene and the viability of counters at that level so bringing in strategies that will work on a master league level or even foreign GM level is pointless.

On August 24 2011 12:37 Flonomenalz wrote:

But you can't even argue that way. To act like even Koreans don't make mistakes or mismicro is an overexaggeration, it just happens way less than foreign pro players. So how do you draw the line as to say T messed up hence P won instead of P outplayed T? That's just ridiculous. To draw a reference, MC played near perfect against Puma's first 1/1/1 push, yet lost his scouting obs on a poor route, over made probes as a result, and chose a very questionable tech route (charge), while engaging without waiting for it to finish. Those are HUGE mistakes, while Puma made very little noticeable mistakes. That match could have ended VERY differently, and then this thread might not even exist!

On August 24 2011 12:37 Flonomenalz wrote:

But you can't even argue that way. To act like even Koreans don't make mistakes or mismicro is an overexaggeration, it just happens way less than foreign pro players. So how do you draw the line as to say T messed up hence P won instead of P outplayed T? That's just ridiculous. To draw a reference, MC played near perfect against Puma's first 1/1/1 push, yet lost his scouting obs on a poor route, over made probes as a result, and chose a very questionable tech route (charge), while engaging without waiting for it to finish. Those are HUGE mistakes, while Puma made very little noticeable mistakes. That match could have ended VERY differently, and then this thread might not even exist!

On August 24 2011 12:49 JediGamer wrote:

MC did not play even close to perfect. He failed his focusing on tanks selecting his entire army to attack them. He bunched up zealots, it was terrible.

I think whats really going on is protoss players have gotten so used to "oh i can macro good im gonna use 1 hotkey". That never worked in BW and I guess SC2 has spoiled these players who don't have to use separate hotkeys and now they are in a hot situation. The pro micro that we used to see from korean SC1 pros is NON existant in sc2, because a toss can fix anything midgame with a couple chrono boosts and an upgrade advantage.

I think garimto would take a shit on this thread.

On August 24 2011 12:52 Cyrak wrote:


No, my belief is that if both players play equally well then given the strategies currently known to Protoss this build is not realistically stoppable without taking insane risks. The Protoss seems to have to play noticeably better than the Terran just to fend off the push and not be behind.

Something that isn't even brought up at all in this thread is the concept of the defender's advantage which is one of the pillars of RTS game design. The argument about 1/1/1 in my eyes should be as simple as this:

This is a build that is incredibly hard to stop even when you know that it's coming. The builds that seem to work against it are extremely vulnerable to other standard Terran openers. There are no builds that can crush this attack or put you ahead. There's no way to accurately confirm the build until it's too late to modify your opener.

Given that set of information then the build is too strong unless there is a build or timing out there that counters 1/1/1 that Protoss players haven't found yet. This is possible but maybe not likely and as such I'm uncomfortable definitively calling 1/1/1 overpowered at this point and I think that most reasonable players in the community feel the same. That doesn't mean that it isn't broken though.

On August 24 2011 14:30 SadMachine wrote:
We need a Cee Lo Green parody:

I see you comin' cross the map with your 1/1/1, and I'm like F#*K YOU!

On August 24 2011 12:33 TidusX.Yuna wrote:
Hey everyone, Terran player here. I just read an interview with Dustin Browder and it really got me thinking as to why the 1-1-1 might be over powered. He explained that he believed the game was balanced, just Terran is much more flexible and complete.

Seriously? Seriously? How full of shit is that? If it's your opinion that the game is balance that's fine. If it's your opinion that Terran is more complete/robust/better designed, that's fine. But sorry, you can't have BOTH those opinions at the same time and not be completely full of shit.