EPTWhy 1/1/1 is considered to be imbalanced in Korea - Page 118
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Can we stop talking about nerfing things please? - 9:10 KST | ||
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ProxyZooZ
United States53 Posts
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On August 24 2011 10:37 ProxyZooZ wrote: Okay; so why are bunkers never used to protect mineral line, why do spine crawlers never get placed on mineral line(or moved to intercept enemy troops), why are detecting units of non-protoss races placed all over the map the second a DT is seen .... i dont agree that they are weaker than anything ... except the planetary fortress (which only shoots ground and does not detect and bunkers cannot be place in mineral line) SO what is the stronger defensive structure Bunkers don't count because they take supply to be effective. Zergs are putting spine crawlers in their mineral lines, or have you not been watching any recent pro games. They also move them around quite a bit to defend vulnerable locations. Cannons against zerg are quite good with decent simcity simply because of range. If you've would even try cannons against terran, all they buy you is time. You seem to think cannons are an excuse for an army. Have fun in your bronze/silver league because guess what, cannons don't actually kill anything that doesn't walk into range. I agree, they aren't particularly weak as far as static defense goes. However that doesn't change the fact that in the case of this all-in, if you build cannons to defend, you cannot engage in the middle of the map because you spent money on cannons, and all you buy yourself is time, because he has siege tanks. It's been said over and over that you need to delay the push regardless of what method you use to defend, and cannons are the worst way possible to do that. | ||
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Resistentialism
Canada688 Posts
On August 24 2011 10:37 ProxyZooZ wrote: Okay; so why are bunkers never used to protect mineral line, why do spine crawlers never get placed on mineral line(or moved to intercept enemy troops), why are detecting units of non-protoss races placed all over the map the second a DT is seen .... i dont agree that they are weaker than anything ... except the planetary fortress (which only shoots ground and does not detect and bunkers cannot be place in mineral line) SO what is the stronger defensive structure Some of your questions have some fairly straightforward answers, some of them include assertions that are pretty silly, but they all pretty much obscure from the idea that the different races get different utility out of their static D. Bunkers don't usually get seen in because mineral lines tend to have cliffs next to them. Zoning attackers through a wall (where you'll see bunkers), and later building missile turrets that have excellent DPS versus air units is superior. Spine crawlers do get put into mineral lines, especially on late game expos, commonly get moved into choke points, and often get moved into the middle of the map in late game. When have you ever seen scattered ravens to ward off light DT harass. Terrans might get one raven to keep with their army. In other cases a missile turret is cheaper, especially paired with a PF for far flung expos. Pairing spines with spores at expos is common. Reaction overseers are common, but not a big issue for most people(?). Don't forget that bunkers and spines get unlocked from Z and T's tier1 mineral-only unit production tech. | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6230 Posts
On August 24 2011 10:37 ProxyZooZ wrote: Okay; so why are bunkers never used to protect mineral line, why do spine crawlers never get placed on mineral line(or moved to intercept enemy troops), why are detecting units of non-protoss races placed all over the map the second a DT is seen .... i dont agree that they are weaker than anything ... except the planetary fortress (which only shoots ground and does not detect and bunkers cannot be place in mineral line) SO what is the stronger defensive structure ...did you really just say the planetary fortress is the weakest defensive structure? I think we're pretty much done here. People don't place bunkers in mineral lines because they don't need them. Turrets cover banshees and most air harass, and a bunker won't save you from hellions et al. Nor will 2x the bunker's value in cannons, by the way. Protoss puts cannons everywhere because they're all we have. They're not useless, but I think it's absurd to say they're the best. They afford us the luxury of only needing to build one structure, at the cost of only being able to build that one structure. It's a tradeoff. | ||
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ProxyZooZ
United States53 Posts
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ProxyZooZ
United States53 Posts
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danielzig
32 Posts
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Belisarius
Australia6230 Posts
On August 24 2011 10:58 ProxyZooZ wrote: quantity doesn't beat specialization units is the protoss argument. Frankly it is bogus in my opinion because how many times has a terran covered his base in turrets only to discover that a zerg has no mutas ... and how many times have you covered your base in cannons to have them fail miserably ... spinecrawlers and spores included ... unless pylons are that hard and i dont get it If you're covering your base in turrets before you even know the Zerg has mutas, you're retarded. If you're covering your base in cannons for any reason, you're arguably retarded. I don't even know what point you're trying to prove anymore, but I'm fairly sure you've failed. Definitely done here. | ||
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PoorPotato
United States21 Posts
So it's basically a coinflip. Prepare for 1 / 1 / 1, or prepare for other builds. Guess wrong and you lose. I'm starting to get used to this. Try playing zerg. Can't usually scout it, can't defend without scouting. | ||
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ProxyZooZ
United States53 Posts
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ProxyZooZ
United States53 Posts
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DertoQq
France906 Posts
On August 24 2011 11:13 ProxyZooZ wrote: and we are talking about defense ... if you put cannons in your base before mutas come are you retarded ... NO and TY .............. You are done this is a thread about 1-1-1. If you put cannons to defend a push with siege tanks, then you're retarded. It's pretty much the same as saying that turrets are better than vikings to counter collosus. | ||
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ProxyZooZ
United States53 Posts
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Bair
United States698 Posts
On August 24 2011 11:10 ProxyZooZ wrote: your done . I never said the planetary fortress is the weakest defensive structure ... ARE YOU KIDDING .. I AM A ZERG i spend 1500 minerals to kill ONE In Best Case Scenario ... I simply stated its weakness so it wasn't called the strongest defense structure ( which is a question i posed and no one has answered) If it takes you that much to kill one PF, you are doing it wrong. On August 24 2011 11:13 ProxyZooZ wrote: and we are talking about defense ... if you put cannons in your base before mutas come are you retarded ... NO and TY .............. You are done If you put cannons in your base before mutalisks are in there, then they are doing it right. This is called scouting. The point is to prevent the mutalisks from destroying the mineral line. The equivalent would be to not build any extra queens or any spores until the 2 port banshee already had 6 banshees in your main. | ||
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Resistentialism
Canada688 Posts
On August 24 2011 11:19 ProxyZooZ wrote: so whats your alternative DertoQq with the wall off by terran and no info of the incoming 111 push Hard to say. This push is pretty good! | ||
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ProxyZooZ
United States53 Posts
which you of course know about cause you a? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ <3 <3 <3ll are superior to me in spidey sense | ||
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Flonomenalz
Nigeria3519 Posts
On August 24 2011 11:05 Belisarius wrote: If you're covering your base in turrets before you even know the Zerg has mutas, you're retarded. If you're covering your base in cannons for any reason, you're arguably retarded. I don't even know what point you're trying to prove anymore, but I'm fairly sure you've failed. Definitely done here. To be honest, while I agree that his points make no sense at all, pre-emptive turrets are just amazing because you simply need them when you're playing TvZ. Sure, some Zergs skip mutas completely (idk why) but there's almost NO way to at least delay a T taking a third and proceeding to wreck you unless you either got mutas or have a large infestor count. If you have the latter, mules are going to make those turrets a non factor (it's not like putting down spines or cannons which actually leave you behind), and if you try to do burrow Infestor --> IT stuff to deny/kill thirds, the T will just push you while doing a drop, or even two drops. You'll be so hard pressed to hold that it's not even funny. Sorry for the little rant, but I don't think it's feasible at high level play to skip mutas, thus making pre-emptive turrets a good idea. | ||
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DertoQq
France906 Posts
On August 24 2011 11:19 ProxyZooZ wrote: so whats your alternative DertoQq with the wall off by terran and no info of the incoming 111 push read the thread ? Pretty much everything you need to know has already been said. | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6230 Posts
On August 24 2011 11:22 Flonomenalz wrote: To be honest, while I agree that his points make no sense at all, pre-emptive turrets are just amazing because you simply need them when you're playing TvZ. Sure, some Zergs skip mutas completely (idk why) but there's almost NO way to at least delay a T taking a third and proceeding to wreck you unless you either got mutas or have a large infestor count. If you have the latter, mules are going to make those turrets a non factor (it's not like putting down spines or cannons which actually leave you behind), and if you try to do burrow Infestor --> IT stuff to deny/kill thirds, the T will just push you while doing a drop, or even two drops. You'll be so hard pressed to hold that it's not even funny. Sorry for the little rant, but I don't think it's feasible at high level play to skip mutas, thus making pre-emptive turrets a good idea. Yeah, sure, absolutely. I build cannons before I see mutas all the time if I have reason to think they'e coming, and I often put them down even if he's heavy roach just in case. But I build like two or three, not "cover my base." On August 24 2011 11:22 ProxyZooZ wrote: what is your all encompassing counter which also deals with the 111 push ppl? which you of course know about cause you a? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ <3 <3 <3ll are superior to me in spidey sense Actually, can someone who's able to please report this dude? Looking at his post history, he's either a troll or so completely clueless he outright requires a ban. | ||
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ProxyZooZ
United States53 Posts
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