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On January 20 2014 16:21 plogamer wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2014 15:04 GinDo wrote:On January 18 2014 14:28 plogamer wrote:On January 18 2014 11:27 GinDo wrote:Hi Zerg Players, I would like to apologize to all the Zerg. For years I have been ignorant of Zerg pain. I have for years played the Terran race, and never understood why Zerg was such a cry baby race. Since I started college, I don't consistently play Starcraft. Thus when I noticed when my rank fell far below my usual Summer average I decided it was the perfect time to switch race to Zerg. I feel your pain now Zerg T_T. I played a match where Terran 1 based vs. my 3 base Zerg. Although I definitely made alot more workers and units then he did, I just fell apart to his constant Medivac harass(off of 1 damn base). Damn I feel like crap. Terran can make so much crap off 1 base. I never realized that until I switched. And losing to such stupidity is pretty disheartening. I think the hardest part of learning Zerg has definitely got to be the adjusting to the flow of the game. As a Terran player, I played very mechanical, just like I did in BW. But, playing as Zerg learning to scout and maintain map control and adjusting to your opponent is a steep learning curve I have to climb if I ever want to reach the levels i did with my Terran play. T_T Sowy for not understanding B4, Gindo  Please do switch back to terran and 1 base against zergs and see how far that takes you. Your post is frankly a little insulting. Don't even tempt me. I'm pretty sure there was a thread about a guy who got to masters by double proxy Rax. Yeah I didn't word it perfectly. But do read the nested quote for context before you jump that gun. But really, do go for 1 base build where you kill your opponent with constant medivac harass, making so much crap off 1 base. Pretty trollish of you to act like you died to double proxy rax. /edit Seriously, you don't get it. It would be like if a Zerg player switch to terran and gave some weird apology because they lost to 2 base muta. Most zerg players would roll their eyes.
how can you get insulted over that?
serious?
He is saying he is finally understanding zerg isn't as simple as make drones hatch and units and it is all about getting the right thing at the right time.
he didn't even say it is zerg being UP or anything.
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On January 20 2014 16:27 playa wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2014 14:48 Fission wrote:On January 20 2014 11:49 DooMDash wrote:On January 20 2014 10:46 Ghanburighan wrote:
No, no-one has ever complained about oracles, until you did, DooMDash. OK While we are at it, swarm hosts too? Honestly I never really feel like swarmhosts are imbalanced, per se. I get bored and frustrated playing against them in my games (if I mech), and I loathe spectating games where they are built en masse. But people have had similar complaints about collosus since the beginning of WoL, so I doubt we'll see a change to SH. I think swarm hosts are, without a doubt, imbalanced on some maps. I'm not playing SC 2 atm and it's mainly because of swarm hosts, despite winning most of the games I play against them. I don't like how a player can simply make a type of unit and it guarantees a 40+ min game. Wtf is that? You have to take the map because you can't trade cost efficiently, meanwhile the other guy can just be on a base or two at a time... What kinda game is this? Then, since SC 2 is a game of hard counters, yet you need 10+ colossi to really have a shot at fighting locuts/swarm hosts, you end up not having enough free supply or resources left to produce adequate anti air/protection for colossi. When you limit a race to only being able to make 1 unit, and having to mass it, then it doesn't exactly take a great strategist to exploit this, to collect freebie wins. I don't know what this game is. I just know it's not worth playing it, while swarm hosts are still in it.
So you die to pure swarmhosts without Vipers, Corruptors, Broodlords and anything mobile to defend harass.
--> Protoss help me thread should get you out of silver.
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On January 20 2014 16:44 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2014 16:27 playa wrote:On January 20 2014 14:48 Fission wrote:On January 20 2014 11:49 DooMDash wrote:On January 20 2014 10:46 Ghanburighan wrote:
No, no-one has ever complained about oracles, until you did, DooMDash. OK While we are at it, swarm hosts too? Honestly I never really feel like swarmhosts are imbalanced, per se. I get bored and frustrated playing against them in my games (if I mech), and I loathe spectating games where they are built en masse. But people have had similar complaints about collosus since the beginning of WoL, so I doubt we'll see a change to SH. I think swarm hosts are, without a doubt, imbalanced on some maps. I'm not playing SC 2 atm and it's mainly because of swarm hosts, despite winning most of the games I play against them. I don't like how a player can simply make a type of unit and it guarantees a 40+ min game. Wtf is that? You have to take the map because you can't trade cost efficiently, meanwhile the other guy can just be on a base or two at a time... What kinda game is this? Then, since SC 2 is a game of hard counters, yet you need 10+ colossi to really have a shot at fighting locuts/swarm hosts, you end up not having enough free supply or resources left to produce adequate anti air/protection for colossi. When you limit a race to only being able to make 1 unit, and having to mass it, then it doesn't exactly take a great strategist to exploit this, to collect freebie wins. I don't know what this game is. I just know it's not worth playing it, while swarm hosts are still in it. So you die to pure swarmhosts without Vipers, Corruptors, Broodlords and anything mobile to defend harass. --> Protoss help me thread should get you out of silver.
Apparently I'm in a higher league than you or something. What are you talking about? How can you not get this? I'm GM. Whatever league you're in, it's too high. The problem is you need a ridiculous amount of colossi to deal with any amount of swarm hosts that goes over 10.
So I have at least 10 colossi (60 supply). Since I need the map to trade with free units, I'm going to have at least 80 probes. It doesn't really leave a whole lot of supply to help you not get boned, due to having to make way more colossi than you ever should be making. Completely exploitable, and jack s you can do about it.
Any decent number of swarm hosts to force out a lot of colossi is a free win, if you know how to make air units.
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On January 20 2014 17:38 playa wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2014 16:44 Big J wrote:On January 20 2014 16:27 playa wrote:On January 20 2014 14:48 Fission wrote:On January 20 2014 11:49 DooMDash wrote:On January 20 2014 10:46 Ghanburighan wrote:
No, no-one has ever complained about oracles, until you did, DooMDash. OK While we are at it, swarm hosts too? Honestly I never really feel like swarmhosts are imbalanced, per se. I get bored and frustrated playing against them in my games (if I mech), and I loathe spectating games where they are built en masse. But people have had similar complaints about collosus since the beginning of WoL, so I doubt we'll see a change to SH. I think swarm hosts are, without a doubt, imbalanced on some maps. I'm not playing SC 2 atm and it's mainly because of swarm hosts, despite winning most of the games I play against them. I don't like how a player can simply make a type of unit and it guarantees a 40+ min game. Wtf is that? You have to take the map because you can't trade cost efficiently, meanwhile the other guy can just be on a base or two at a time... What kinda game is this? Then, since SC 2 is a game of hard counters, yet you need 10+ colossi to really have a shot at fighting locuts/swarm hosts, you end up not having enough free supply or resources left to produce adequate anti air/protection for colossi. When you limit a race to only being able to make 1 unit, and having to mass it, then it doesn't exactly take a great strategist to exploit this, to collect freebie wins. I don't know what this game is. I just know it's not worth playing it, while swarm hosts are still in it. So you die to pure swarmhosts without Vipers, Corruptors, Broodlords and anything mobile to defend harass. --> Protoss help me thread should get you out of silver. Apparently I'm in a higher league than you or something. What are you talking about? How can you not get this? I'm GM. Whatever league you're in, it's too high. The problem is you need a ridiculous amount of colossi to deal with any amount of swarm hosts that goes over 10. So I have at least 10 colossi (60 supply). Since I need the map to trade with free units, I'm going to have at least 80 probes. It doesn't really leave a whole lot of supply to help you not get boned, due to having to make way more colossi than you ever should be making. Completely exploitable, and jack s you can do about it. Any decent number of swarm hosts to force out a lot of colossi is a free win, if you know how to make air units.
And without SH toss air would just laugh at Zerg. Never ending circle of fun.
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On January 20 2014 16:33 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2014 16:21 plogamer wrote:On January 20 2014 15:04 GinDo wrote:On January 18 2014 14:28 plogamer wrote:On January 18 2014 11:27 GinDo wrote:Hi Zerg Players, I would like to apologize to all the Zerg. For years I have been ignorant of Zerg pain. I have for years played the Terran race, and never understood why Zerg was such a cry baby race. Since I started college, I don't consistently play Starcraft. Thus when I noticed when my rank fell far below my usual Summer average I decided it was the perfect time to switch race to Zerg. I feel your pain now Zerg T_T. I played a match where Terran 1 based vs. my 3 base Zerg. Although I definitely made alot more workers and units then he did, I just fell apart to his constant Medivac harass(off of 1 damn base). Damn I feel like crap. Terran can make so much crap off 1 base. I never realized that until I switched. And losing to such stupidity is pretty disheartening. I think the hardest part of learning Zerg has definitely got to be the adjusting to the flow of the game. As a Terran player, I played very mechanical, just like I did in BW. But, playing as Zerg learning to scout and maintain map control and adjusting to your opponent is a steep learning curve I have to climb if I ever want to reach the levels i did with my Terran play. T_T Sowy for not understanding B4, Gindo Please do switch back to terran and 1 base against zergs and see how far that takes you. Your post is frankly a little insulting. Don't even tempt me. I'm pretty sure there was a thread about a guy who got to masters by double proxy Rax. Yeah I didn't word it perfectly. But do read the nested quote for context before you jump that gun. But really, do go for 1 base build where you kill your opponent with constant medivac harass, making so much crap off 1 base. Pretty trollish of you to act like you died to double proxy rax. /edit Seriously, you don't get it. It would be like if a Zerg player switch to terran and gave some weird apology because they lost to 2 base muta. Most zerg players would roll their eyes. how can you get insulted over that? serious? He is saying he is finally understanding zerg isn't as simple as make drones hatch and units and it is all about getting the right thing at the right time. he didn't even say it is zerg being UP or anything.
Getting the right thing at the right time pretty much applies for all the races.
"Terran can make so much crap off 1 base" or "losing to such stupidity is pretty disheartening" are fair comments? It's one thing to understand Zerg better, totally commend him on that, but to replace Terran bias for Zerg bias?
Does anyone with some gray matter actually believe playing Zerg is "as simple as make drones hatch and units"? I don't claim to understand Zerg completely, but that's just another silly comment to make.
On January 20 2014 17:56 RaFox17 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2014 17:38 playa wrote:On January 20 2014 16:44 Big J wrote:On January 20 2014 16:27 playa wrote:On January 20 2014 14:48 Fission wrote:On January 20 2014 11:49 DooMDash wrote:On January 20 2014 10:46 Ghanburighan wrote:
No, no-one has ever complained about oracles, until you did, DooMDash. OK While we are at it, swarm hosts too? Honestly I never really feel like swarmhosts are imbalanced, per se. I get bored and frustrated playing against them in my games (if I mech), and I loathe spectating games where they are built en masse. But people have had similar complaints about collosus since the beginning of WoL, so I doubt we'll see a change to SH. I think swarm hosts are, without a doubt, imbalanced on some maps. I'm not playing SC 2 atm and it's mainly because of swarm hosts, despite winning most of the games I play against them. I don't like how a player can simply make a type of unit and it guarantees a 40+ min game. Wtf is that? You have to take the map because you can't trade cost efficiently, meanwhile the other guy can just be on a base or two at a time... What kinda game is this? Then, since SC 2 is a game of hard counters, yet you need 10+ colossi to really have a shot at fighting locuts/swarm hosts, you end up not having enough free supply or resources left to produce adequate anti air/protection for colossi. When you limit a race to only being able to make 1 unit, and having to mass it, then it doesn't exactly take a great strategist to exploit this, to collect freebie wins. I don't know what this game is. I just know it's not worth playing it, while swarm hosts are still in it. So you die to pure swarmhosts without Vipers, Corruptors, Broodlords and anything mobile to defend harass. --> Protoss help me thread should get you out of silver. Apparently I'm in a higher league than you or something. What are you talking about? How can you not get this? I'm GM. Whatever league you're in, it's too high. The problem is you need a ridiculous amount of colossi to deal with any amount of swarm hosts that goes over 10. So I have at least 10 colossi (60 supply). Since I need the map to trade with free units, I'm going to have at least 80 probes. It doesn't really leave a whole lot of supply to help you not get boned, due to having to make way more colossi than you ever should be making. Completely exploitable, and jack s you can do about it. Any decent number of swarm hosts to force out a lot of colossi is a free win, if you know how to make air units. And without SH toss air would just laugh at Zerg. Never ending circle of fun.
Zerg cannot deal with air toss? I think I'm missing something.
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On January 20 2014 17:58 plogamer wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2014 16:33 ETisME wrote:On January 20 2014 16:21 plogamer wrote:On January 20 2014 15:04 GinDo wrote:On January 18 2014 14:28 plogamer wrote:On January 18 2014 11:27 GinDo wrote:Hi Zerg Players, I would like to apologize to all the Zerg. For years I have been ignorant of Zerg pain. I have for years played the Terran race, and never understood why Zerg was such a cry baby race. Since I started college, I don't consistently play Starcraft. Thus when I noticed when my rank fell far below my usual Summer average I decided it was the perfect time to switch race to Zerg. I feel your pain now Zerg T_T. I played a match where Terran 1 based vs. my 3 base Zerg. Although I definitely made alot more workers and units then he did, I just fell apart to his constant Medivac harass(off of 1 damn base). Damn I feel like crap. Terran can make so much crap off 1 base. I never realized that until I switched. And losing to such stupidity is pretty disheartening. I think the hardest part of learning Zerg has definitely got to be the adjusting to the flow of the game. As a Terran player, I played very mechanical, just like I did in BW. But, playing as Zerg learning to scout and maintain map control and adjusting to your opponent is a steep learning curve I have to climb if I ever want to reach the levels i did with my Terran play. T_T Sowy for not understanding B4, Gindo Please do switch back to terran and 1 base against zergs and see how far that takes you. Your post is frankly a little insulting. Don't even tempt me. I'm pretty sure there was a thread about a guy who got to masters by double proxy Rax. Yeah I didn't word it perfectly. But do read the nested quote for context before you jump that gun. But really, do go for 1 base build where you kill your opponent with constant medivac harass, making so much crap off 1 base. Pretty trollish of you to act like you died to double proxy rax. /edit Seriously, you don't get it. It would be like if a Zerg player switch to terran and gave some weird apology because they lost to 2 base muta. Most zerg players would roll their eyes. how can you get insulted over that? serious? He is saying he is finally understanding zerg isn't as simple as make drones hatch and units and it is all about getting the right thing at the right time. he didn't even say it is zerg being UP or anything. Getting the right thing at the right time pretty much applies for all the races. "Terran can make so much crap off 1 base" or "losing to such stupidity is pretty disheartening" are fair comments? It's one thing to understand Zerg better, totally commend him on that, but to replace Terran bias for Zerg bias? Does anyone with some gray matter actually believe playing Zerg is "as simple as make drones hatch and units"? I don't claim to understand Zerg completely, but that's just another silly comment to make. Show nested quote +On January 20 2014 17:56 RaFox17 wrote:On January 20 2014 17:38 playa wrote:On January 20 2014 16:44 Big J wrote:On January 20 2014 16:27 playa wrote:On January 20 2014 14:48 Fission wrote:On January 20 2014 11:49 DooMDash wrote:On January 20 2014 10:46 Ghanburighan wrote:
No, no-one has ever complained about oracles, until you did, DooMDash. OK While we are at it, swarm hosts too? Honestly I never really feel like swarmhosts are imbalanced, per se. I get bored and frustrated playing against them in my games (if I mech), and I loathe spectating games where they are built en masse. But people have had similar complaints about collosus since the beginning of WoL, so I doubt we'll see a change to SH. I think swarm hosts are, without a doubt, imbalanced on some maps. I'm not playing SC 2 atm and it's mainly because of swarm hosts, despite winning most of the games I play against them. I don't like how a player can simply make a type of unit and it guarantees a 40+ min game. Wtf is that? You have to take the map because you can't trade cost efficiently, meanwhile the other guy can just be on a base or two at a time... What kinda game is this? Then, since SC 2 is a game of hard counters, yet you need 10+ colossi to really have a shot at fighting locuts/swarm hosts, you end up not having enough free supply or resources left to produce adequate anti air/protection for colossi. When you limit a race to only being able to make 1 unit, and having to mass it, then it doesn't exactly take a great strategist to exploit this, to collect freebie wins. I don't know what this game is. I just know it's not worth playing it, while swarm hosts are still in it. So you die to pure swarmhosts without Vipers, Corruptors, Broodlords and anything mobile to defend harass. --> Protoss help me thread should get you out of silver. Apparently I'm in a higher league than you or something. What are you talking about? How can you not get this? I'm GM. Whatever league you're in, it's too high. The problem is you need a ridiculous amount of colossi to deal with any amount of swarm hosts that goes over 10. So I have at least 10 colossi (60 supply). Since I need the map to trade with free units, I'm going to have at least 80 probes. It doesn't really leave a whole lot of supply to help you not get boned, due to having to make way more colossi than you ever should be making. Completely exploitable, and jack s you can do about it. Any decent number of swarm hosts to force out a lot of colossi is a free win, if you know how to make air units. And without SH toss air would just laugh at Zerg. Never ending circle of fun. Zerg cannot deal with air toss? I think I'm missing something.
At the point when toss has air and HT zerg fighting without SH is basically dead.
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On January 20 2014 18:03 RaFox17 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2014 17:58 plogamer wrote:On January 20 2014 16:33 ETisME wrote:On January 20 2014 16:21 plogamer wrote:On January 20 2014 15:04 GinDo wrote:On January 18 2014 14:28 plogamer wrote:On January 18 2014 11:27 GinDo wrote:Hi Zerg Players, I would like to apologize to all the Zerg. For years I have been ignorant of Zerg pain. I have for years played the Terran race, and never understood why Zerg was such a cry baby race. Since I started college, I don't consistently play Starcraft. Thus when I noticed when my rank fell far below my usual Summer average I decided it was the perfect time to switch race to Zerg. I feel your pain now Zerg T_T. I played a match where Terran 1 based vs. my 3 base Zerg. Although I definitely made alot more workers and units then he did, I just fell apart to his constant Medivac harass(off of 1 damn base). Damn I feel like crap. Terran can make so much crap off 1 base. I never realized that until I switched. And losing to such stupidity is pretty disheartening. I think the hardest part of learning Zerg has definitely got to be the adjusting to the flow of the game. As a Terran player, I played very mechanical, just like I did in BW. But, playing as Zerg learning to scout and maintain map control and adjusting to your opponent is a steep learning curve I have to climb if I ever want to reach the levels i did with my Terran play. T_T Sowy for not understanding B4, Gindo Please do switch back to terran and 1 base against zergs and see how far that takes you. Your post is frankly a little insulting. Don't even tempt me. I'm pretty sure there was a thread about a guy who got to masters by double proxy Rax. Yeah I didn't word it perfectly. But do read the nested quote for context before you jump that gun. But really, do go for 1 base build where you kill your opponent with constant medivac harass, making so much crap off 1 base. Pretty trollish of you to act like you died to double proxy rax. /edit Seriously, you don't get it. It would be like if a Zerg player switch to terran and gave some weird apology because they lost to 2 base muta. Most zerg players would roll their eyes. how can you get insulted over that? serious? He is saying he is finally understanding zerg isn't as simple as make drones hatch and units and it is all about getting the right thing at the right time. he didn't even say it is zerg being UP or anything. Getting the right thing at the right time pretty much applies for all the races. "Terran can make so much crap off 1 base" or "losing to such stupidity is pretty disheartening" are fair comments? It's one thing to understand Zerg better, totally commend him on that, but to replace Terran bias for Zerg bias? Does anyone with some gray matter actually believe playing Zerg is "as simple as make drones hatch and units"? I don't claim to understand Zerg completely, but that's just another silly comment to make. On January 20 2014 17:56 RaFox17 wrote:On January 20 2014 17:38 playa wrote:On January 20 2014 16:44 Big J wrote:On January 20 2014 16:27 playa wrote:On January 20 2014 14:48 Fission wrote:On January 20 2014 11:49 DooMDash wrote:On January 20 2014 10:46 Ghanburighan wrote:
No, no-one has ever complained about oracles, until you did, DooMDash. OK While we are at it, swarm hosts too? Honestly I never really feel like swarmhosts are imbalanced, per se. I get bored and frustrated playing against them in my games (if I mech), and I loathe spectating games where they are built en masse. But people have had similar complaints about collosus since the beginning of WoL, so I doubt we'll see a change to SH. I think swarm hosts are, without a doubt, imbalanced on some maps. I'm not playing SC 2 atm and it's mainly because of swarm hosts, despite winning most of the games I play against them. I don't like how a player can simply make a type of unit and it guarantees a 40+ min game. Wtf is that? You have to take the map because you can't trade cost efficiently, meanwhile the other guy can just be on a base or two at a time... What kinda game is this? Then, since SC 2 is a game of hard counters, yet you need 10+ colossi to really have a shot at fighting locuts/swarm hosts, you end up not having enough free supply or resources left to produce adequate anti air/protection for colossi. When you limit a race to only being able to make 1 unit, and having to mass it, then it doesn't exactly take a great strategist to exploit this, to collect freebie wins. I don't know what this game is. I just know it's not worth playing it, while swarm hosts are still in it. So you die to pure swarmhosts without Vipers, Corruptors, Broodlords and anything mobile to defend harass. --> Protoss help me thread should get you out of silver. Apparently I'm in a higher league than you or something. What are you talking about? How can you not get this? I'm GM. Whatever league you're in, it's too high. The problem is you need a ridiculous amount of colossi to deal with any amount of swarm hosts that goes over 10. So I have at least 10 colossi (60 supply). Since I need the map to trade with free units, I'm going to have at least 80 probes. It doesn't really leave a whole lot of supply to help you not get boned, due to having to make way more colossi than you ever should be making. Completely exploitable, and jack s you can do about it. Any decent number of swarm hosts to force out a lot of colossi is a free win, if you know how to make air units. And without SH toss air would just laugh at Zerg. Never ending circle of fun. Zerg cannot deal with air toss? I think I'm missing something. At the point when toss has air and HT zerg fighting without SH is basically dead.
I can see it now. Hydras/corruptors and infestors gettings stormed and hit with feedback respectively.
/edit
But perhaps swarm hosts don't need to force out that many collosi. Forcing out say, 6 collosi instead of 10 would allow Protoss enough supply to adjust to mass tech switch from Zerg.
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On January 20 2014 18:13 plogamer wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2014 18:03 RaFox17 wrote:On January 20 2014 17:58 plogamer wrote:On January 20 2014 16:33 ETisME wrote:On January 20 2014 16:21 plogamer wrote:On January 20 2014 15:04 GinDo wrote:On January 18 2014 14:28 plogamer wrote:On January 18 2014 11:27 GinDo wrote:Hi Zerg Players, I would like to apologize to all the Zerg. For years I have been ignorant of Zerg pain. I have for years played the Terran race, and never understood why Zerg was such a cry baby race. Since I started college, I don't consistently play Starcraft. Thus when I noticed when my rank fell far below my usual Summer average I decided it was the perfect time to switch race to Zerg. I feel your pain now Zerg T_T. I played a match where Terran 1 based vs. my 3 base Zerg. Although I definitely made alot more workers and units then he did, I just fell apart to his constant Medivac harass(off of 1 damn base). Damn I feel like crap. Terran can make so much crap off 1 base. I never realized that until I switched. And losing to such stupidity is pretty disheartening. I think the hardest part of learning Zerg has definitely got to be the adjusting to the flow of the game. As a Terran player, I played very mechanical, just like I did in BW. But, playing as Zerg learning to scout and maintain map control and adjusting to your opponent is a steep learning curve I have to climb if I ever want to reach the levels i did with my Terran play. T_T Sowy for not understanding B4, Gindo Please do switch back to terran and 1 base against zergs and see how far that takes you. Your post is frankly a little insulting. Don't even tempt me. I'm pretty sure there was a thread about a guy who got to masters by double proxy Rax. Yeah I didn't word it perfectly. But do read the nested quote for context before you jump that gun. But really, do go for 1 base build where you kill your opponent with constant medivac harass, making so much crap off 1 base. Pretty trollish of you to act like you died to double proxy rax. /edit Seriously, you don't get it. It would be like if a Zerg player switch to terran and gave some weird apology because they lost to 2 base muta. Most zerg players would roll their eyes. how can you get insulted over that? serious? He is saying he is finally understanding zerg isn't as simple as make drones hatch and units and it is all about getting the right thing at the right time. he didn't even say it is zerg being UP or anything. Getting the right thing at the right time pretty much applies for all the races. "Terran can make so much crap off 1 base" or "losing to such stupidity is pretty disheartening" are fair comments? It's one thing to understand Zerg better, totally commend him on that, but to replace Terran bias for Zerg bias? Does anyone with some gray matter actually believe playing Zerg is "as simple as make drones hatch and units"? I don't claim to understand Zerg completely, but that's just another silly comment to make. On January 20 2014 17:56 RaFox17 wrote:On January 20 2014 17:38 playa wrote:On January 20 2014 16:44 Big J wrote:On January 20 2014 16:27 playa wrote:On January 20 2014 14:48 Fission wrote:On January 20 2014 11:49 DooMDash wrote:On January 20 2014 10:46 Ghanburighan wrote:
No, no-one has ever complained about oracles, until you did, DooMDash. OK While we are at it, swarm hosts too? Honestly I never really feel like swarmhosts are imbalanced, per se. I get bored and frustrated playing against them in my games (if I mech), and I loathe spectating games where they are built en masse. But people have had similar complaints about collosus since the beginning of WoL, so I doubt we'll see a change to SH. I think swarm hosts are, without a doubt, imbalanced on some maps. I'm not playing SC 2 atm and it's mainly because of swarm hosts, despite winning most of the games I play against them. I don't like how a player can simply make a type of unit and it guarantees a 40+ min game. Wtf is that? You have to take the map because you can't trade cost efficiently, meanwhile the other guy can just be on a base or two at a time... What kinda game is this? Then, since SC 2 is a game of hard counters, yet you need 10+ colossi to really have a shot at fighting locuts/swarm hosts, you end up not having enough free supply or resources left to produce adequate anti air/protection for colossi. When you limit a race to only being able to make 1 unit, and having to mass it, then it doesn't exactly take a great strategist to exploit this, to collect freebie wins. I don't know what this game is. I just know it's not worth playing it, while swarm hosts are still in it. So you die to pure swarmhosts without Vipers, Corruptors, Broodlords and anything mobile to defend harass. --> Protoss help me thread should get you out of silver. Apparently I'm in a higher league than you or something. What are you talking about? How can you not get this? I'm GM. Whatever league you're in, it's too high. The problem is you need a ridiculous amount of colossi to deal with any amount of swarm hosts that goes over 10. So I have at least 10 colossi (60 supply). Since I need the map to trade with free units, I'm going to have at least 80 probes. It doesn't really leave a whole lot of supply to help you not get boned, due to having to make way more colossi than you ever should be making. Completely exploitable, and jack s you can do about it. Any decent number of swarm hosts to force out a lot of colossi is a free win, if you know how to make air units. And without SH toss air would just laugh at Zerg. Never ending circle of fun. Zerg cannot deal with air toss? I think I'm missing something. At the point when toss has air and HT zerg fighting without SH is basically dead. I can see it now. Hydras/corruptors and infestors gettings stormed and hit with feedback respectively.
You spread your void´s throw in some FF and storm the hydras. I think void´s still kinda hard counter corruptors??
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How do we feel about vipers. They really shut down my mech play, but I'm not going to call imbalance, rather what do you guys think? The cloud they have is really powerful vs tanks obviously. I think i just need practice or to mix air in.
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On January 20 2014 18:46 DooMDash wrote:
How do we feel about vipers. They really shut down my mech play, but I'm not going to call imbalance, rather what do you guys think? The cloud they have is really powerful vs tanks obviously. I think i just need practice or to mix air in.
I think the consensus is that with combined upgrades Vikings counter Vipers pretty hard.
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On January 20 2014 18:13 plogamer wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2014 18:03 RaFox17 wrote:On January 20 2014 17:58 plogamer wrote:On January 20 2014 16:33 ETisME wrote:On January 20 2014 16:21 plogamer wrote:On January 20 2014 15:04 GinDo wrote:On January 18 2014 14:28 plogamer wrote:On January 18 2014 11:27 GinDo wrote:Hi Zerg Players, I would like to apologize to all the Zerg. For years I have been ignorant of Zerg pain. I have for years played the Terran race, and never understood why Zerg was such a cry baby race. Since I started college, I don't consistently play Starcraft. Thus when I noticed when my rank fell far below my usual Summer average I decided it was the perfect time to switch race to Zerg. I feel your pain now Zerg T_T. I played a match where Terran 1 based vs. my 3 base Zerg. Although I definitely made alot more workers and units then he did, I just fell apart to his constant Medivac harass(off of 1 damn base). Damn I feel like crap. Terran can make so much crap off 1 base. I never realized that until I switched. And losing to such stupidity is pretty disheartening. I think the hardest part of learning Zerg has definitely got to be the adjusting to the flow of the game. As a Terran player, I played very mechanical, just like I did in BW. But, playing as Zerg learning to scout and maintain map control and adjusting to your opponent is a steep learning curve I have to climb if I ever want to reach the levels i did with my Terran play. T_T Sowy for not understanding B4, Gindo Please do switch back to terran and 1 base against zergs and see how far that takes you. Your post is frankly a little insulting. Don't even tempt me. I'm pretty sure there was a thread about a guy who got to masters by double proxy Rax. Yeah I didn't word it perfectly. But do read the nested quote for context before you jump that gun. But really, do go for 1 base build where you kill your opponent with constant medivac harass, making so much crap off 1 base. Pretty trollish of you to act like you died to double proxy rax. /edit Seriously, you don't get it. It would be like if a Zerg player switch to terran and gave some weird apology because they lost to 2 base muta. Most zerg players would roll their eyes. how can you get insulted over that? serious? He is saying he is finally understanding zerg isn't as simple as make drones hatch and units and it is all about getting the right thing at the right time. he didn't even say it is zerg being UP or anything. Getting the right thing at the right time pretty much applies for all the races. "Terran can make so much crap off 1 base" or "losing to such stupidity is pretty disheartening" are fair comments? It's one thing to understand Zerg better, totally commend him on that, but to replace Terran bias for Zerg bias? Does anyone with some gray matter actually believe playing Zerg is "as simple as make drones hatch and units"? I don't claim to understand Zerg completely, but that's just another silly comment to make. On January 20 2014 17:56 RaFox17 wrote:On January 20 2014 17:38 playa wrote:On January 20 2014 16:44 Big J wrote:On January 20 2014 16:27 playa wrote:On January 20 2014 14:48 Fission wrote:On January 20 2014 11:49 DooMDash wrote:On January 20 2014 10:46 Ghanburighan wrote:
No, no-one has ever complained about oracles, until you did, DooMDash. OK While we are at it, swarm hosts too? Honestly I never really feel like swarmhosts are imbalanced, per se. I get bored and frustrated playing against them in my games (if I mech), and I loathe spectating games where they are built en masse. But people have had similar complaints about collosus since the beginning of WoL, so I doubt we'll see a change to SH. I think swarm hosts are, without a doubt, imbalanced on some maps. I'm not playing SC 2 atm and it's mainly because of swarm hosts, despite winning most of the games I play against them. I don't like how a player can simply make a type of unit and it guarantees a 40+ min game. Wtf is that? You have to take the map because you can't trade cost efficiently, meanwhile the other guy can just be on a base or two at a time... What kinda game is this? Then, since SC 2 is a game of hard counters, yet you need 10+ colossi to really have a shot at fighting locuts/swarm hosts, you end up not having enough free supply or resources left to produce adequate anti air/protection for colossi. When you limit a race to only being able to make 1 unit, and having to mass it, then it doesn't exactly take a great strategist to exploit this, to collect freebie wins. I don't know what this game is. I just know it's not worth playing it, while swarm hosts are still in it. So you die to pure swarmhosts without Vipers, Corruptors, Broodlords and anything mobile to defend harass. --> Protoss help me thread should get you out of silver. Apparently I'm in a higher league than you or something. What are you talking about? How can you not get this? I'm GM. Whatever league you're in, it's too high. The problem is you need a ridiculous amount of colossi to deal with any amount of swarm hosts that goes over 10. So I have at least 10 colossi (60 supply). Since I need the map to trade with free units, I'm going to have at least 80 probes. It doesn't really leave a whole lot of supply to help you not get boned, due to having to make way more colossi than you ever should be making. Completely exploitable, and jack s you can do about it. Any decent number of swarm hosts to force out a lot of colossi is a free win, if you know how to make air units. And without SH toss air would just laugh at Zerg. Never ending circle of fun. Zerg cannot deal with air toss? I think I'm missing something. At the point when toss has air and HT zerg fighting without SH is basically dead. I can see it now. Hydras/corruptors and infestors gettings stormed and hit with feedback respectively. /edit But perhaps swarm hosts don't need to force out that many collosi. Forcing out say, 6 collosi instead of 10 would allow Protoss enough supply to adjust to mass tech switch from Zerg.
Hydras are fucking awful vs units not named "stalker", they lose to phoenixes lol.
Zerg anti-air is terrible, the best unit they have for it is there macro unit lol. Corrupters have basically two useful purposes, 1 is to kill collosus, 2 is to zone out phoenixes when massing mutas.
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On January 20 2014 18:46 DooMDash wrote:
How do we feel about vipers. They really shut down my mech play, but I'm not going to call imbalance, rather what do you guys think? The cloud they have is really powerful vs tanks obviously. I think i just need practice or to mix air in.
I wish they were weaker against tank/thor and stronger against bio. Its a fun unit but feels limited right now.
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On January 20 2014 19:49 Daswollvieh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2014 18:46 DooMDash wrote:
How do we feel about vipers. They really shut down my mech play, but I'm not going to call imbalance, rather what do you guys think? The cloud they have is really powerful vs tanks obviously. I think i just need practice or to mix air in. I think the consensus is that with combined upgrades Vikings counter Vipers pretty hard.
And vipers also punish tanks that aren't spread out in the least bit, from what I've seen in a few pro games.
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In my opinion, blizzard should just adopt the mining scaling of broodwar, that way the trutling player will always have an inferior economy to his opponent and the problem that his units are more cost efficient becomes smaller. Sadly, the mining scaling of sc2 however is a deliberate design decision according to some Blizzard official, so we will never see that happening.
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Anyone watch the PL Match Just now Fantasy Vses True...... It was an intense game and very interesting basically wound up being in the end that True could just make so many units constantly that Terrans army even though having the upgrade advantage couldn't keep up with the fight.... and Threw away a HUGE lead just to the fact that zerg could just make mass ling and Banes which had inferior upgrade and just win.....
It's kinda sad to see blizzard nerf WM so hard to the point now where this is possible and Bio is becoming almost Non-Viable anymore to where zerg doesn't have to Upgrade be on 2-2 50 mins in and still win against 3-3 bio Thors and Hellbats.......
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On January 20 2014 22:02 Pirfiktshon wrote:
Anyone watch the PL Match Just now Fantasy Vses True...... It was an intense game and very interesting basically wound up being in the end that True could just make so many units constantly that Terrans army even though having the upgrade advantage couldn't keep up with the fight.... and Threw away a HUGE lead just to the fact that zerg could just make mass ling and Banes which had inferior upgrade and just win.....
It's kinda sad to see blizzard nerf WM so hard to the point now where this is possible and Bio is becoming almost Non-Viable anymore to where zerg doesn't have to Upgrade be on 2-2 50 mins in and still win against 3-3 bio Thors and Hellbats.......
They both made so many blunders that even though widowmine is slightly too weak the result of the game cannot be pointed to that unit.
It wasn't so long ago that zerg couldn't even get to 3/3 90% of the time. Still can't really. If you wan't to see something stupid in that match up watch late game mech tvz. That is an example of something that is unbeatable, not what last game was.
Wm do need a buff though
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They both made so many blunders that even though widowmine is slightly too weak the result of the game cannot be pointed to that unit.
It wasn't so long ago that zerg couldn't even get to 3/3 90% of the time. Still can't really. If you wan't to see something stupid in that match up watch late game mech tvz. That is an example of something that is unbeatable, not what last game was.
Wm do need a buff though
Yea, I agree It's just the only real counter to Lings was WM and now their cost doesn't justify the trade so making them would have been a worse choice then Hellbats which Hellbats are ok but now you can't push into zerg like you used to so they HAVE the option to hive and as the casters pointed out he just opted not to when he had every chance to do it .... I feel like if he did go hive and tech he prolly would have lost but the fact that he spammed lings is the real reason in the end that he won because its just an overwhelming force and they are so fast taht Hellbats need to be massed just to deal with them but then you have muta which Thors don't really counter anymore because they are so fast LOL so its kinda a catch 22 .... I would like to see the outcome though if he upgraded the thors vs the muta....
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On January 20 2014 22:16 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2014 22:02 Pirfiktshon wrote:
Anyone watch the PL Match Just now Fantasy Vses True...... It was an intense game and very interesting basically wound up being in the end that True could just make so many units constantly that Terrans army even though having the upgrade advantage couldn't keep up with the fight.... and Threw away a HUGE lead just to the fact that zerg could just make mass ling and Banes which had inferior upgrade and just win.....
It's kinda sad to see blizzard nerf WM so hard to the point now where this is possible and Bio is becoming almost Non-Viable anymore to where zerg doesn't have to Upgrade be on 2-2 50 mins in and still win against 3-3 bio Thors and Hellbats....... They both made so many blunders that even though widowmine is slightly too weak the result of the game cannot be pointed to that unit. It wasn't so long ago that zerg couldn't even get to 3/3 90% of the time. Still can't really. If you wan't to see something stupid in that match up watch late game mech tvz. That is an example of something that is unbeatable, not what last game was. Wm do need a buff though
I was wondering when someone would came up with mech lategame in TvZ. And yes, I´m as a longtime terran player are absolutely with you. The army you get there is absolutely unbeatable and the way up to this point is boring as hell. I as a terran player don´t want to be forced into playing up to several hour long turtle fests to secure 5bases and get an ultimate army of very gas heavy units, then having to clear out several max. armies of zerg with it to finally win the game. It´s absolutely ridiculous frustrating to play against, but also to execute it. I hate this playstyle so much, I can´t really describe it in words.
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On January 20 2014 22:36 TeeTS wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2014 22:16 bo1b wrote:On January 20 2014 22:02 Pirfiktshon wrote:
Anyone watch the PL Match Just now Fantasy Vses True...... It was an intense game and very interesting basically wound up being in the end that True could just make so many units constantly that Terrans army even though having the upgrade advantage couldn't keep up with the fight.... and Threw away a HUGE lead just to the fact that zerg could just make mass ling and Banes which had inferior upgrade and just win.....
It's kinda sad to see blizzard nerf WM so hard to the point now where this is possible and Bio is becoming almost Non-Viable anymore to where zerg doesn't have to Upgrade be on 2-2 50 mins in and still win against 3-3 bio Thors and Hellbats....... They both made so many blunders that even though widowmine is slightly too weak the result of the game cannot be pointed to that unit. It wasn't so long ago that zerg couldn't even get to 3/3 90% of the time. Still can't really. If you wan't to see something stupid in that match up watch late game mech tvz. That is an example of something that is unbeatable, not what last game was. Wm do need a buff though I was wondering when someone would came up with mech lategame in TvZ. And yes, I´m as a longtime terran player are absolutely with you. The army you get there is absolutely unbeatable and the way up to this point is boring as hell. I as a terran player don´t want to be forced into playing up to several hour long turtle fests to secure 5bases and get an ultimate army of very gas heavy units, then having to clear out several max. armies of zerg with it to finally win the game. It´s absolutely ridiculous frustrating to play against, but also to execute it. I hate this playstyle so much, I can´t really describe it in words.
If I wanted to sit on my ass for 25 minutes and a move to victory, I'd play Protoss.
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On January 20 2014 22:32 Pirfiktshon wrote:Show nested quote +They both made so many blunders that even though widowmine is slightly too weak the result of the game cannot be pointed to that unit.
It wasn't so long ago that zerg couldn't even get to 3/3 90% of the time. Still can't really. If you wan't to see something stupid in that match up watch late game mech tvz. That is an example of something that is unbeatable, not what last game was.
Wm do need a buff though Yea, I agree It's just the only real counter to Lings was WM and now their cost doesn't justify the trade so making them would have been a worse choice then Hellbats which Hellbats are ok but now you can't push into zerg like you used to so they HAVE the option to hive and as the casters pointed out he just opted not to when he had every chance to do it .... I feel like if he did go hive and tech he prolly would have lost but the fact that he spammed lings is the real reason in the end that he won because its just an overwhelming force and they are so fast taht Hellbats need to be massed just to deal with them but then you have muta which Thors don't really counter anymore because they are so fast LOL so its kinda a catch 22 .... I would like to see the outcome though if he upgraded the thors vs the muta....
Bio's problem in tvz is the muta, if they nerfed the regen rate on that and lowered the speed ever so slightly it would be pretty even I feel.
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EPT
