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On January 03 2014 02:11 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2014 02:08 Bagi wrote:On January 03 2014 01:45 ffadicted wrote:
Can't really increase radius on EMP imo, a range increase big enough to be meaningful will mean a good terran can easily abuse range + radius to win every single feedback/EMP battle.
IDK if I like that idea so much tbh. I don't think Ghosts are the problem, maybe their price, but not their effectiveness Nobody used EMP for that purpose when it had larger radius. I'm not at all shocked that protoss players are against changes that could result in meaningful buffs for terran though. It was nerfed in the first place because EMP was doing too much damage against Protoss. Back at the old radius, a single EMP was often doing 1000+ damage at instant speed that could not be avoided, dodged, or really micro'd against at all.
How about splitting up your units pre-emptively, keeping track where his ghosts are and try to get feedbacks off? Kinda like terrans try to deal with templar?
It might seem like a lot of damage on paper but considering all the tools protoss has it seems almost necessary at this point. The lategame is a joke.
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On January 03 2014 02:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2014 01:54 ffadicted wrote:
^ I agree with white wing. Things are crappy, but the terran teenage drama queen levels have gotten to ridiculous heights lately. Agreed, although it's been pretty bad ever since they stopped winning everything (back in the GomTvT days). Show nested quote +On January 03 2014 01:45 ffadicted wrote:
Can't really increase radius on EMP imo, a range increase big enough to be meaningful will mean a good terran can easily abuse range + radius to win every single feedback/EMP battle.
IDK if I like that idea so much tbh. I don't think Ghosts are the problem, maybe their price, but not their effectiveness As a Protoss player, I wouldn't mind seeing Terran's EMP radius get a little larger as long as range is decreased. It would be nice to have the high templar (the slower, non-cloaked spellcaster) be able to get their first shots off on the ghost, rather than the way it's always been (ghosts getting first dibs on shooting off spells first, often immediately nullifying the high templar). The ghost resource cost is really not bad though. Maybe lowering the mineral cost a tiny bit and raising the gas cost would be better for Terrans, but it's currently not awful.
? Feedback vs Snipe is like 53/47 in favor of the Templar from memory.
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On January 03 2014 02:11 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2014 02:08 Bagi wrote:On January 03 2014 01:45 ffadicted wrote:
Can't really increase radius on EMP imo, a range increase big enough to be meaningful will mean a good terran can easily abuse range + radius to win every single feedback/EMP battle.
IDK if I like that idea so much tbh. I don't think Ghosts are the problem, maybe their price, but not their effectiveness Nobody used EMP for that purpose when it had larger radius. I'm not at all shocked that protoss players are against changes that could result in meaningful buffs for terran though. It was nerfed in the first place because EMP was doing too much damage against Protoss. Back at the old radius, a single EMP was often doing 1000+ damage at instant speed that could not be avoided, dodged, or really micro'd against at all.
So what buff would you propose to the ghost to make Terran more viable late game vs Protoss?
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On January 03 2014 02:20 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2014 02:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On January 03 2014 01:54 ffadicted wrote:
^ I agree with white wing. Things are crappy, but the terran teenage drama queen levels have gotten to ridiculous heights lately. Agreed, although it's been pretty bad ever since they stopped winning everything (back in the GomTvT days). On January 03 2014 01:45 ffadicted wrote:
Can't really increase radius on EMP imo, a range increase big enough to be meaningful will mean a good terran can easily abuse range + radius to win every single feedback/EMP battle.
IDK if I like that idea so much tbh. I don't think Ghosts are the problem, maybe their price, but not their effectiveness As a Protoss player, I wouldn't mind seeing Terran's EMP radius get a little larger as long as range is decreased. It would be nice to have the high templar (the slower, non-cloaked spellcaster) be able to get their first shots off on the ghost, rather than the way it's always been (ghosts getting first dibs on shooting off spells first, often immediately nullifying the high templar). The ghost resource cost is really not bad though. Maybe lowering the mineral cost a tiny bit and raising the gas cost would be better for Terrans, but it's currently not awful. ? Feedback vs Snipe is like 53/47 in favor of the Templar from memory.
How is that the case when ghosts outrange high templar?
But sure, ghosts probably aren't that great if you're not actually casting spells with them and using them as effectively as possible... when I accidentally run my spellcasters into my opponent's army, I lose games too.
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How is that the case when ghosts outrange high templar?
But sure, ghosts probably aren't that great if you're not actually casting spells with them and using them as effectively as possible... when I accidentally run my spellcasters into my opponent's army, I lose games too.
Well when you start playing higher up games its not about that... Its about the "Juke" my friend.
If you aren't familiar with this it goes a little like this..... Ghost winds up for the Pitch Templar Backs Up for the Juke Then FBs on ghosts so the Ghosts Rewinds up for the Pitch and then is batted before he can even throw the ball 
Pretty much the Only safe 100% way to kill a Temp is To Emp out of range i think its a total of 3 times before they have no energy then snipe LOL
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On January 03 2014 02:29 Pirfiktshon wrote:Show nested quote +How is that the case when ghosts outrange high templar?
But sure, ghosts probably aren't that great if you're not actually casting spells with them and using them as effectively as possible... when I accidentally run my spellcasters into my opponent's army, I lose games too. Well when you start playing higher up games its not about that... Its about the "Juke" my friend. If you aren't familiar with this it goes a little like this..... Ghost winds up for the Pitch Templar Backs Up for the Juke Then FBs on ghosts so the Ghosts Rewinds up for the Pitch and then is batted before he can even throw the ball Pretty much the Only safe 100% way to kill a Temp is To Emp out of range i think its a total of 3 times before they have no energy then snipe LOL
...what?
Obviously you should be paying attention to your spellcasters when you send them off to cast a spell... do you just chase high templar back into Protoss armies or something, and then wonder why your ghost got killed?
Pretty sure a ghost can "juke" far better than a high templar can, considering the ghost is faster, invisible, and has longer range.
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United States7483 Posts
On January 03 2014 02:22 nottapro wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2014 02:11 Whitewing wrote:On January 03 2014 02:08 Bagi wrote:On January 03 2014 01:45 ffadicted wrote:
Can't really increase radius on EMP imo, a range increase big enough to be meaningful will mean a good terran can easily abuse range + radius to win every single feedback/EMP battle.
IDK if I like that idea so much tbh. I don't think Ghosts are the problem, maybe their price, but not their effectiveness Nobody used EMP for that purpose when it had larger radius. I'm not at all shocked that protoss players are against changes that could result in meaningful buffs for terran though. It was nerfed in the first place because EMP was doing too much damage against Protoss. Back at the old radius, a single EMP was often doing 1000+ damage at instant speed that could not be avoided, dodged, or really micro'd against at all. So what buff would you propose to the ghost to make Terran more viable late game vs Protoss?
The ghost doesn't really need looking at, I feel it's strong enough as is. I would look to fix terran air units more than anything to give terran bio a transition to late game or more late game support. A BC buff would not be inappropriate or uncalled for (the carrier could use a buff too for that matter, but BC > Carrier anyway so no biggie), neither would it be inappropriate to have auto-turret damage scale with mech weapon upgrades. Current ghost actually fits in with mech and air play better than bio because of it's lower gas cost and higher mineral cost.
But yeah, the ghost should always beat the High templar if controlled properly: both ghost spells outrange the high templar, you have scan to get a vision lead or snipe observers w/ cloak, and the ghost is the faster unit.
On January 03 2014 02:32 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2014 02:29 Pirfiktshon wrote:How is that the case when ghosts outrange high templar?
But sure, ghosts probably aren't that great if you're not actually casting spells with them and using them as effectively as possible... when I accidentally run my spellcasters into my opponent's army, I lose games too. Well when you start playing higher up games its not about that... Its about the "Juke" my friend. If you aren't familiar with this it goes a little like this..... Ghost winds up for the Pitch Templar Backs Up for the Juke Then FBs on ghosts so the Ghosts Rewinds up for the Pitch and then is batted before he can even throw the ball Pretty much the Only safe 100% way to kill a Temp is To Emp out of range i think its a total of 3 times before they have no energy then snipe LOL ...what? Obviously you should be paying attention to your spellcasters when you send them off to cast a spell... do you just chase high templar back into Protoss armies or something, and then wonder why your ghost got killed? Pretty sure a ghost can "juke" far better than a high templar can, considering the ghost is faster, invisible, and has longer range.
I think he's EMP'ing from max range and missing when they micro, then the templar moves in and feedbacks. If you're looking to kill templar, use snipe, not EMP. EMP is for clumps of templar, and for doing damage to the shields of the protoss army.
Also, Gumiho is the only person I've seen doing this, but he used to put ghosts into medivac, and use the speed boost to get the ghosts into perfect position with scan to see what he's doing.
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The fight is not as easy as it sounds for the Ghost, DarkPlasmaBall. It's not just about range. Feedback casting time is instant. Snipe, while not being a projectile like EMP, is very slow to cast, the Ghost executes a long animation (he kneels) which lasts at least 1 second, and by the time he fires, the high templar has moved in range for Feedback. Then the result is kinda non-deterministic, sometimes the Ghost gets to snipe first, sometimes the templar gets to feedback first, it's not clear-cut.
But what you have to remember is that you have to snipe the templar twice to really neutralize him, while you only need to feedback a ghost once.
EMP has better range, but EMP is a projectile, and doesn't remove all the templar energy.
In the end, I would say it's a question of whether or not the templar energy count is high or low. If it's high and templars are spread, then you're in deep shit as Terran because all your anti-templar spells must hit twice to be of any effect, while if your ghosts are full, it's even better for Protoss because now Feedback becomes lethal.
In any case, "Ghosts beat templars" is not completely true, it's more complicated. I would even say that the real battle happens in the air, where the vikings try to snipe the scanned observers, so that your ghosts can cloak and reliably take care of business.
Edit: I think the Ghost is fine too, even if I would like the 150/150 -> 200/100 cost change to be reverted sometimes. It could be a sound use of all the gas excess we have in the late game.
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The problem with buffs to "air switches" and other stuff that is currently completely unused is a complete crapshoot. They've tried to do it with mech and the combined upgrades buff, but obviously it hasn't resulted into anything at all really.
So how much do you buff battlecruisers if you want to make them the saving grace of lategame TvP? Remove energy, back to 10 damage per shot? Does it break TvZ? Do buffs to ravens break TvZ? Is TvT going to became all-out air wars past the 15 minute mark if you go too far?
That's my problem with ambiguous suggestions like "buff BCs or something", they are impractical and frankly a waste of fucking time. Buff the unit that has time and time again proven essential but isnt performing in its current role, the ghost.
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On January 03 2014 02:33 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2014 02:22 nottapro wrote:On January 03 2014 02:11 Whitewing wrote:On January 03 2014 02:08 Bagi wrote:On January 03 2014 01:45 ffadicted wrote:
Can't really increase radius on EMP imo, a range increase big enough to be meaningful will mean a good terran can easily abuse range + radius to win every single feedback/EMP battle.
IDK if I like that idea so much tbh. I don't think Ghosts are the problem, maybe their price, but not their effectiveness Nobody used EMP for that purpose when it had larger radius. I'm not at all shocked that protoss players are against changes that could result in meaningful buffs for terran though. It was nerfed in the first place because EMP was doing too much damage against Protoss. Back at the old radius, a single EMP was often doing 1000+ damage at instant speed that could not be avoided, dodged, or really micro'd against at all. So what buff would you propose to the ghost to make Terran more viable late game vs Protoss? The ghost doesn't really need looking at, I feel it's strong enough as is. I would look to fix terran air units more than anything to give terran bio a transition to late game or more late game support. A BC buff would not be inappropriate or uncalled for (the carrier could use a buff too for that matter, but BC > Carrier anyway so no biggie), neither would it be inappropriate to have auto-turret damage scale with mech weapon upgrades. Current ghost actually fits in with mech and air play better than bio because of it's lower gas cost and higher mineral cost. But yeah, the ghost should always beat the High templar if controlled properly: both ghost spells outrange the high templar, you have scan to get a vision lead or snipe observers w/ cloak, and the ghost is the faster unit. Show nested quote +On January 03 2014 02:32 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On January 03 2014 02:29 Pirfiktshon wrote:How is that the case when ghosts outrange high templar?
But sure, ghosts probably aren't that great if you're not actually casting spells with them and using them as effectively as possible... when I accidentally run my spellcasters into my opponent's army, I lose games too. Well when you start playing higher up games its not about that... Its about the "Juke" my friend. If you aren't familiar with this it goes a little like this..... Ghost winds up for the Pitch Templar Backs Up for the Juke Then FBs on ghosts so the Ghosts Rewinds up for the Pitch and then is batted before he can even throw the ball Pretty much the Only safe 100% way to kill a Temp is To Emp out of range i think its a total of 3 times before they have no energy then snipe LOL ...what? Obviously you should be paying attention to your spellcasters when you send them off to cast a spell... do you just chase high templar back into Protoss armies or something, and then wonder why your ghost got killed? Pretty sure a ghost can "juke" far better than a high templar can, considering the ghost is faster, invisible, and has longer range. I think he's EMP'ing from max range and missing when they micro, then the templar moves in and feedbacks. If you're looking to kill templar, use snipe, not EMP. EMP is for clumps of templar, and for doing damage to the shields of the protoss army. Also, Gumiho is the only person I've seen doing this, but he used to put ghosts into medivac, and use the speed boost to get the ghosts into perfect position with scan to see what he's doing.
Hmm ok, to me BC's seem too ultra late game, they require a huge investment, transition and don't help the mid/late game. So I still think it needs to be the ghost, we can just agree to disagree on this one, I don't think an argument is necessary. Feel free to have the last word and defend your opinion, but don't expect much of a response from me.
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...what?
Obviously you should be paying attention to your spellcasters when you send them off to cast a spell... do you just chase high templar back into Protoss armies or something, and then wonder why your ghost got killed?
Pretty sure a ghost can "juke" far better than a high templar can, considering the ghost is faster, invisible, and has longer range.
This is not a Long High Speed chase down Belshir vestige center as the rest of the battle happens this happens with in 1/2 a second.... LOL You seriously have no idea what good templar control is..... As a ghost you have to Emp then shoot as brought out before hand if templar has high energy its GG my friend especially when you have temps Spread out and they know how to juke its a nightmare........
Edit: and Saying this is a once in a lifetime shot I Have played friends in Micro Battles to test this I can have 4 HTs with Full energy vses 8 ghosts full energy HTs with this knowledge win 80-90% of the time LOL
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On January 03 2014 02:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2014 01:54 ffadicted wrote:
^ I agree with white wing. Things are crappy, but the terran teenage drama queen levels have gotten to ridiculous heights lately. Agreed, although it's been pretty bad ever since they stopped winning everything (back in the GomTvT days). Show nested quote +On January 03 2014 01:45 ffadicted wrote:
Can't really increase radius on EMP imo, a range increase big enough to be meaningful will mean a good terran can easily abuse range + radius to win every single feedback/EMP battle.
IDK if I like that idea so much tbh. I don't think Ghosts are the problem, maybe their price, but not their effectiveness As a Protoss player, I wouldn't mind seeing Terran's EMP radius get a little larger as long as range is decreased. It would be nice to have the high templar (the slower, non-cloaked spellcaster) be able to get their first shots off on the ghost, rather than the way it's always been (ghosts getting first dibs on shooting off spells first, often immediately nullifying the high templar). The ghost resource cost is really not bad though. Maybe lowering the mineral cost a tiny bit and raising the gas cost would be better for Terrans, but it's currently not awful.
Why should ht have the ability to trade evenly in the energy war with the ghosts? That makes absolutely no sense.. The only purpose for making ghosts in the first place is to drain ht energy; it has no real utility beyond that. On the other hand, the first goal on ht is to drop storms on Terran bio. Also, Toss can warp in a ton of ht all at once, and let their energy start to build immediately, whereas ghosts cost more, and take longer to build. And then we're talking about losing 100 energy through emp, to losing all your energy from fb and possibly losing the ghost. There is absolutely no reason that a unit with a stronger anti-energy spell, and more utility in army fights should be getting the first shots off.
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On January 03 2014 02:18 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2014 02:16 Pirfiktshon wrote:Can't really increase radius on EMP imo, a range increase big enough to be meaningful will mean a good terran can easily abuse range + radius to win every single feedback/EMP battle.
IDK if I like that idea so much tbh. I don't think Ghosts are the problem, maybe their price, but not their effectiveness Thats just the point the Price plays a HUGE part into the effectiveness..... For Instance having a Zergling cost 200 minerals but kept the same stats would mean making lings would not be effective at all and zerg would suffer tremendously because of it.... The simple fact comes into Cost vses Utility of Trade.... it's hard to measure a utility of Trade with the situation of a ghost but! its not hard to see now that 200/100 is really not worth making something that can die to 50 Energy instantly..... when it takes 400/200 to instantly kill a Temp LOL That's if the Temp doesn't do the Juke move and just kill all 3 ghosts.... What? You can just snipe it twice from outside it's range: snipe has range 10, feedback has range 9, and the ghost is the faster of the two units. If you're losing these micro wars, it's user error on your part.
Fail. A ghost will NEVER land a snipe before feedback. This is old news since even WOL. If protoss can see the ghost and queue up a feedback, snipe wont even cast. Despite snipe having a miniscule longer range, it has a .5 or 1 second cast time meaning it is always interupted by feedback.
It actually takes 3 to 4 ghosts to sucessfully snipe a ht if toss queues feedbacks on the ghosts.
So no it is not user error, unless terran catches toss sleeping snipe is very ineffective vs templars.
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On January 03 2014 02:32 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2014 02:29 Pirfiktshon wrote:How is that the case when ghosts outrange high templar?
But sure, ghosts probably aren't that great if you're not actually casting spells with them and using them as effectively as possible... when I accidentally run my spellcasters into my opponent's army, I lose games too. Well when you start playing higher up games its not about that... Its about the "Juke" my friend. If you aren't familiar with this it goes a little like this..... Ghost winds up for the Pitch Templar Backs Up for the Juke Then FBs on ghosts so the Ghosts Rewinds up for the Pitch and then is batted before he can even throw the ball Pretty much the Only safe 100% way to kill a Temp is To Emp out of range i think its a total of 3 times before they have no energy then snipe LOL ...what? Obviously you should be paying attention to your spellcasters when you send them off to cast a spell... do you just chase high templar back into Protoss armies or something, and then wonder why your ghost got killed? Pretty sure a ghost can "juke" far better than a high templar can, considering the ghost is faster, invisible, and has longer range.
Your level of ignorance astounds me.. First of all lets not pretend like obs dont virtually render cloak useless, so you can stop saying that now. Secondly, snipe is only one range outside of fb, and it takes time for the spell to cast, whereas fb can instantly cast (meaning a ht can just take the first snipe on the chin and keep moving in range to fb). And if Toss doesnt want ot take a snipe, the juke occurs when the ht backs out of snipe range and stops, and just as the ghost tries to close the distance to 10 again the ht turns around and the range is effectively closed to 9 (both units moved closer by 1)..bam dead ghost. Third of all, as a Terran if you're spending too much time on microing your spell casters, there is always the threat that Toss will just deathball amove onto you, so you have to make sure your bio and vikings are being microed simultaneously with the ghosts. Its no secret that Toss' lategame army is favored over Terran's, its been that way for a very long time..idk what your trying to argue here.
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I think if we put this in automation 10000 do 40 Ghosts vs 4 Templars with this trick in mind with Templars infin energy i think 4 temps win hhahahahha
That is Snipes vs FB
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I would just like to state that this discussion of balance is really coming down the the Utility of units and the Cost. I think the highest level players are just so freaking good at kiting with Marauder that this is not seen as a problem but I think this play is all but getting figured out and we are going to see a complete and Utter domination on higher levels in the next couple months if nothing is done about it... I'm talking 20% winrate across the board Proleague WCS Ladder and thats just for the terran that are left..... seeing how we are getting a Toss filled scene hahaha ( Noone can deny the Percentage of P players in GM being a little fishy.... if you don't see a problem with that then you truly are blind ....)
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I always thought the Ghost should move a lot faster than it does. Its supposed to be a lightly armoured "assasin" type unit compared to the Marine or Marauder in their big power suits...yet they move the same speed until they inject their magic drugs and run 100 mph faster.
I would leave the Ghosts' abilities the same and see if giving them a speed boost would help them juke or "dance" a bit better. They could dodge storms easier, cloak would be a lot more powerful, stutter stepping would be a bit stronger, but they would still have the lag-time before snipe so with good control from toss they could still be feedbacked.
Nothing crazy, say Dark Templar speed 2.8 or 2.9 or whatever it is.
Thoughts?
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I always thought the Ghost should move a lot faster than it does. Its supposed to be a lightly armoured "assasin" type unit compared to the Marine or Marauder in their is big power suits...yet they move the same speed until they inject their magic drugs and run 100 mph faster.
I would leave the Ghosts' abilities the same and see if giving them a speed boost would help them juke or "dance" a bit better. They could dodge storms easier, cloak would be a lot more powerful, stutter stepping would be a bit stronger, but they would still have the lag-time before snipe so with good control from toss they could still be feedbacked.
Nothing crazy, say Dark Templar speed 2.8 or 2.9 or whatever it is.
Thoughts?
Such a kind hearted soul <3 <3
No toss would want to have to fight a Cloaked unit that did so much damage that they couldn't have themselves hahahaha....
In all seriousness this would help but I don't think blizzard likes the idea of a Terran unit being so fast....
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United States7483 Posts
On January 03 2014 02:55 nottapro wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2014 02:33 Whitewing wrote:On January 03 2014 02:22 nottapro wrote:On January 03 2014 02:11 Whitewing wrote:On January 03 2014 02:08 Bagi wrote:On January 03 2014 01:45 ffadicted wrote:
Can't really increase radius on EMP imo, a range increase big enough to be meaningful will mean a good terran can easily abuse range + radius to win every single feedback/EMP battle.
IDK if I like that idea so much tbh. I don't think Ghosts are the problem, maybe their price, but not their effectiveness Nobody used EMP for that purpose when it had larger radius. I'm not at all shocked that protoss players are against changes that could result in meaningful buffs for terran though. It was nerfed in the first place because EMP was doing too much damage against Protoss. Back at the old radius, a single EMP was often doing 1000+ damage at instant speed that could not be avoided, dodged, or really micro'd against at all. So what buff would you propose to the ghost to make Terran more viable late game vs Protoss? The ghost doesn't really need looking at, I feel it's strong enough as is. I would look to fix terran air units more than anything to give terran bio a transition to late game or more late game support. A BC buff would not be inappropriate or uncalled for (the carrier could use a buff too for that matter, but BC > Carrier anyway so no biggie), neither would it be inappropriate to have auto-turret damage scale with mech weapon upgrades. Current ghost actually fits in with mech and air play better than bio because of it's lower gas cost and higher mineral cost. But yeah, the ghost should always beat the High templar if controlled properly: both ghost spells outrange the high templar, you have scan to get a vision lead or snipe observers w/ cloak, and the ghost is the faster unit. On January 03 2014 02:32 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On January 03 2014 02:29 Pirfiktshon wrote:How is that the case when ghosts outrange high templar?
But sure, ghosts probably aren't that great if you're not actually casting spells with them and using them as effectively as possible... when I accidentally run my spellcasters into my opponent's army, I lose games too. Well when you start playing higher up games its not about that... Its about the "Juke" my friend. If you aren't familiar with this it goes a little like this..... Ghost winds up for the Pitch Templar Backs Up for the Juke Then FBs on ghosts so the Ghosts Rewinds up for the Pitch and then is batted before he can even throw the ball Pretty much the Only safe 100% way to kill a Temp is To Emp out of range i think its a total of 3 times before they have no energy then snipe LOL ...what? Obviously you should be paying attention to your spellcasters when you send them off to cast a spell... do you just chase high templar back into Protoss armies or something, and then wonder why your ghost got killed? Pretty sure a ghost can "juke" far better than a high templar can, considering the ghost is faster, invisible, and has longer range. I think he's EMP'ing from max range and missing when they micro, then the templar moves in and feedbacks. If you're looking to kill templar, use snipe, not EMP. EMP is for clumps of templar, and for doing damage to the shields of the protoss army. Also, Gumiho is the only person I've seen doing this, but he used to put ghosts into medivac, and use the speed boost to get the ghosts into perfect position with scan to see what he's doing. Hmm ok, to me BC's seem too ultra late game, they require a huge investment, transition and don't help the mid/late game. So I still think it needs to be the ghost, we can just agree to disagree on this one, I don't think an argument is necessary. Feel free to have the last word and defend your opinion, but don't expect much of a response from me.
Fair enough, but BC's only seem that late because the transition has no function now with shitty BC's. If a BC transition was actually useful, terrans would figure out how to make it work.
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Blizzard solution to everything is already to make everything faster
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EPT
