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Designated Balance Discussion Thread - Page 858

Forum Index > SC2 General
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TurboMaN
Profile Joined October 2005
Germany925 Posts
December 30 2013 14:17 GMT
#17141
Just look at the proleague and try to find Terrans. If you manage to find some, try to look for winning Terrans. Won't be many.
hansonslee
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States2027 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-30 14:54:36
December 30 2013 14:51 GMT
#17142
How about making vikings and ghosts a bit more mobile? Because the Terrans can only win against the Protoss, if they have an epic flank in the late game.

Vikings have a movement speed increase up to 2.953 (same speed as a warp prism), so it can get into position against the Colossus (also, I hope that depth of micro suggestion from LaLush would be added!)

As for Ghosts, why would not give a movement speed for Ghosts (2.5 or 2.75) while cloaked, so it can get into position easily and give them some awesome nukeage.

This is meant to give Terrans an edge in late game phase against the Protoss without hurting their match up against other races. What do you guys think?

As for the Blink all-in, why not give Stalkers the ability to blink only up to one step (just like the reaper)? That would reduce the amount of choices that Stalkers can blink into.
Seed's # 1 fan!!! #ForVengeance
Orek
Profile Joined February 2012
1665 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-30 15:12:45
December 30 2013 15:10 GMT
#17143
On December 29 2013 09:56 TurboMaN wrote:
Does anyone know David Kim's "Random" GM Account?

As of Dec. 30 (Source: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/ladder/grandmaster/heart-of-the-swarm )
KR: 0 random GM

NA: 2 random GM
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/5187949/1/HTOYoshi/
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/3134359/1/sObZenx/

EU: 1 random GM
http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/2824845/1/WreckingBall/

However, by saying "random," David Kim probably means that he plays all 3 races somewhat equally without actually using "random" as his race option. So, I seriously doubt that one of these three accounts is DK's.

Sabu113
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States11047 Posts
December 30 2013 17:59 GMT
#17144
On December 30 2013 23:17 TurboMaN wrote:
Just look at the proleague and try to find Terrans. If you manage to find some, try to look for winning Terrans. Won't be many.


Yeah. It's bizarre how many more protoss we're seeing this season of proleague!
Biomine is a drunken chick who is on industrial strength amphetamines and would just grab your dick and jerk it as hard and violently as she could while screaming 'OMG FUCK ME', because she saw it in a Sasha Grey video ...-Wombat_Ni
Ana_
Profile Joined May 2012
Finland453 Posts
December 30 2013 18:00 GMT
#17145
So maybe blink allins are defendable by sensor tower. Thx TY! #IWantToBelieve
Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me.
Bagi
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6799 Posts
December 30 2013 20:58 GMT
#17146
On December 31 2013 03:00 Ana_ wrote:
So maybe blink allins are defendable by sensor tower. Thx TY! #IWantToBelieve

Blink all-ins have always been defendable, the problem is that you can scout it and still die if you don't defend perfectly, whereas most early game all ins have straightforward counters if you know they are coming.

1-1-1 is the epitome of this, blink isnt obviously as bad but its still pretty damn shitty.
Kyrao
Profile Joined July 2010
United States161 Posts
December 30 2013 23:26 GMT
#17147
In all honesty, herO's blink build was far inferior to Rain's (which is the standard)... herO only had 3 probes mining his nat for a good 2-3 minutes before restarting probe production as he should have been warping in 5 gates worth of stalkers, instead having only 3 gateways worth of prod.... so he basically had one base production with a 2 base timing... not to mention his DT a moved into the bunker at the natural... Also the 3-4 seconds it took him to start actually attacking the bio ball he just time warped in the main, giving them a chance to just walk past it.

Seriously, herO played like shit, there's no way around it.
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-30 23:51:30
December 30 2013 23:42 GMT
#17148
On December 31 2013 08:26 Kyrao wrote:
In all honesty, herO's blink build was far inferior to Rain's (which is the standard)... herO only had 3 probes mining his nat for a good 2-3 minutes before restarting probe production as he should have been warping in 5 gates worth of stalkers, instead having only 3 gateways worth of prod.... so he basically had one base production with a 2 base timing... not to mention his DT a moved into the bunker at the natural... Also the 3-4 seconds it took him to start actually attacking the bio ball he just time warped in the main, giving them a chance to just walk past it.

Seriously, herO played like shit, there's no way around it.


Rain's wasnt the strongest one either, but Dream didnt defend it well while TY's defense was extraordinary.


Imo the real pain with blinkallins is their implications to mapmaking which limits main/natural setups a lot.
Extenz
Profile Joined October 2011
Italy822 Posts
December 30 2013 23:45 GMT
#17149
I dunno why terran say early game aggression vs Protoss is impossible, ever heard of medivac?Force overcharge at natural and load into the main, boom, the almighty MSC is now useless.
Aveng3r
Profile Joined February 2012
United States2411 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-31 00:00:21
December 30 2013 23:57 GMT
#17150
so when do you guys think they will make sub pro level tvp playable?
On December 31 2013 08:45 Extenz wrote:
I dunno why terran say early game aggression vs Protoss is impossible, ever heard of medivac?Force overcharge at natural and load into the main, boom, the almighty MSC is now useless.

only shitty protosses would let this happen to them
I carve marble busts of assassinated world leaders - PM for a quote
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
December 31 2013 00:00 GMT
#17151
On December 31 2013 08:45 Extenz wrote:
I dunno why terran say early game aggression vs Protoss is impossible, ever heard of medivac?Force overcharge at natural and load into the main, boom, the almighty MSC is now useless.


Well, my bc rush also remains potent. And it comes a full 80 seconds later than the medivac push. /sarcasm
Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
Aveng3r
Profile Joined February 2012
United States2411 Posts
December 31 2013 00:13 GMT
#17152
So im browsing the terran help me thread looking for a way to cheese protoss. I am done playing the matchup. done. cant deal with late game toss, the plethora of cheeses that they can do, cant deal with it. I AM DONE.

and I cannot find a cheese that works. how the fuck is this a fair game when protoss can pick and choose between a seamingly endless array of cheeses, off of 1 or 2 bases, and I have to sit here and try to defend against all of them if I have any hope of winning?

and how it is fair that even if I manage to survive to the lategame, I am expected to micro like a fucking professional to survive any battles at all, where all toss has to do is a-click and cast storms? somebody explain this to me.

also if anyone has a cheese that they can throw my way, that would be great.
I carve marble busts of assassinated world leaders - PM for a quote
Kevin_Sorbo
Profile Joined November 2011
Canada3217 Posts
December 31 2013 00:27 GMT
#17153
On December 31 2013 08:45 Extenz wrote:
I dunno why terran say early game aggression vs Protoss is impossible, ever heard of medivac?Force overcharge at natural and load into the main, boom, the almighty MSC is now useless.



DUDE if it was that simple dont you think it would have been the norm by now??

thanks for being a genius though.

and btw I think you cant technically call it early game once you reach the 10 minute mark.
The mind is like a parachute, it doesnt work unless its open. - Zappa
plogamer
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Canada3132 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-31 00:31:36
December 31 2013 00:28 GMT
#17154
Warp tech needs to change.

It makes all Protoss match-ups very volatile; exponentially volatile when both sides have warp tech in PvP. Volatile because warp-tech, by its very nature, allows very little room for players to make a comeback. The enemy reinforcements are already at the front of your base in case of a single error. In games without warp tech, 'defender's advantage' still plays a major factor in the game.

Protoss did not need warp-tech to define itself in BW, Protoss does not need warp-tech in SC2. I am sure that many protoss players agree that without warp-tech, their mirror MUs would be less volatile.

But Protoss ability to harass in large games does rely a lot on warping in zealots. Especially when I watch PvZs. So we cannot remove it outright without majorly affecting balance.

Therefore, change warp-tech to function like 'orbital strike' from WoL campaign and limited to warp prisms. Now Protoss can still do "warp-ins" late-game without making early-game such a clusterfuck of instant reinforcements in all Protoss matchups. Remove the upgrade, make it built-in with warp prisms.

TLDR: Gateways rallied to an activated warp-prism will teleport their units to the rally point when the production cycle is completed. Protoss all-ins will require robotics facility to abuse warp tech, and therefore be limited. Late game will not change too much.
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
December 31 2013 00:35 GMT
#17155
On December 31 2013 09:28 plogamer wrote:
Warp tech needs to change.

This has been asked countless times since the dawn of SC2, but for some reason Blizzard is very happy with this terrible concept. I doubt they will even try to tweak it in LotV.
Ana_
Profile Joined May 2012
Finland453 Posts
December 31 2013 00:43 GMT
#17156
On December 31 2013 09:35 TheDwf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 31 2013 09:28 plogamer wrote:
Warp tech needs to change.

This has been asked countless times since the dawn of SC2, but for some reason Blizzard is very happy with this terrible concept. I doubt they will even try to tweak it in LotV.


Propably because of the work. Imagine you remove warpgate and sentries. Making Protoss be able to survive, for example 11minute roach max by zerg, you would need like Immortals comming out of gateways or something equally ridicilous. How the fuck you gona balance that out in reasonable time for your next game/expansion?
Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me.
Ana_
Profile Joined May 2012
Finland453 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-31 00:45:39
December 31 2013 00:45 GMT
#17157
On December 31 2013 09:13 Aveng3r wrote:
So im browsing the terran help me thread looking for a way to cheese protoss. I am done playing the matchup. done. cant deal with late game toss, the plethora of cheeses that they can do, cant deal with it. I AM DONE.

and I cannot find a cheese that works. how the fuck is this a fair game when protoss can pick and choose between a seamingly endless array of cheeses, off of 1 or 2 bases, and I have to sit here and try to defend against all of them if I have any hope of winning?

and how it is fair that even if I manage to survive to the lategame, I am expected to micro like a fucking professional to survive any battles at all, where all toss has to do is a-click and cast storms? somebody explain this to me.

also if anyone has a cheese that they can throw my way, that would be great.



11/11 all the way baby! Maru made it work !
Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me.
Snusmumriken
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden1717 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-31 01:58:24
December 31 2013 01:56 GMT
#17158
On December 31 2013 09:45 Ana_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 31 2013 09:13 Aveng3r wrote:
So im browsing the terran help me thread looking for a way to cheese protoss. I am done playing the matchup. done. cant deal with late game toss, the plethora of cheeses that they can do, cant deal with it. I AM DONE.

and I cannot find a cheese that works. how the fuck is this a fair game when protoss can pick and choose between a seamingly endless array of cheeses, off of 1 or 2 bases, and I have to sit here and try to defend against all of them if I have any hope of winning?

and how it is fair that even if I manage to survive to the lategame, I am expected to micro like a fucking professional to survive any battles at all, where all toss has to do is a-click and cast storms? somebody explain this to me.

also if anyone has a cheese that they can throw my way, that would be great.



11/11 all the way baby! Maru made it work !


It works once in a bluemoon, and unlike 99% of protoss cheese it has no transition if it doesnt work out. There is no reliable cheese vs protoss.

Im no lover of cheese, but I can see how it would seem unfair to watch the protoss table full of whiskey cheddar, brie and gorgonzola, all while the terran table has some stinkin mcdonalds synthetic excuse for a cheese that no one wants to touch with a 10-foot pole.
Amove for Aiur
Terence Chill
Profile Joined November 2011
Germany112 Posts
December 31 2013 02:52 GMT
#17159
On December 31 2013 09:13 Aveng3r wrote:
So im browsing the terran help me thread looking for a way to cheese protoss. I am done playing the matchup. done. cant deal with late game toss, the plethora of cheeses that they can do, cant deal with it. I AM DONE.

and I cannot find a cheese that works. how the fuck is this a fair game when protoss can pick and choose between a seamingly endless array of cheeses, off of 1 or 2 bases, and I have to sit here and try to defend against all of them if I have any hope of winning?

and how it is fair that even if I manage to survive to the lategame, I am expected to micro like a fucking professional to survive any battles at all, where all toss has to do is a-click and cast storms? somebody explain this to me.

also if anyone has a cheese that they can throw my way, that would be great.


welcome to the zergs life. at least in WoL we got rewarded for defending 15-20 minutes in the game.
InfamousOne
Profile Joined April 2013
United States110 Posts
December 31 2013 03:05 GMT
#17160
I have also quit playing sc2 since terran is in such a horrible spot right now and blizzard hasnt done anything about it or even updated us..

I love starcraft more than any game in the world... been playing since a kid... now, all I play is LOL because of how imbalanced I personally feel the game is, my opinion of course... tho seems to be a lot of people's opinions

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