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On September 09 2011 04:06 Crying wrote:
Oh,i must've read really bad :D
But yea, Terran has been dominating since january....It was fun to play the game during beta/retail 5-6months cos the game wasnt figured out and now it just seems MEH,Broodwar took iit 10-12years to get figured out and SC2 takes like a year,and yes its kinda figured out now...
The limited things an Protoss can do is for instance vs zerg FE into Stargate that is not gimmicky,but macro oriented as MC says.
In broodwar vs zerg we could've done is like skip stargate and go chargelot,archon two base ,we could've gone reaver/sair heavy harass,we could've gone standart sair into templar harass,we could've gone carriers even (Nal_Ra) :D
But now ... we are SO LIMITED by strategies,and nono its not that we havent had them figured out its just becuase that race is so scarce.
Basic problem atm is that the warpgate nerf means it's safer for Z to drone a bit heavier both against 4 warpgate and 6-7 warpgate all ins, and still defend them. It's not a huge change, but it's big enough to change the balance.
One thing I am waiting for protoss to try is to see that Z is taking 3 bases and droning, and take 3 bases themselves ... it should be possible to secure with cannon / pylon / warpgate placement.
Because what Z is doing atm is going up to 3 bases full saturation before making units, feeling safe against pretty much anything, having figured out all the DT / VR / gateway timings. But a turtling 3 base protoss might be impossible to break with cannons / colossus defense for example ...
Still, I guess it's not viable since I haven't seen any high lvl protoss even attempt it...
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On September 09 2011 04:12 Bagi wrote:
Of course it sucks when the whole protoss army gets blanket EMP'd by surprise and outright loses the game because of it, but the same can happen with storms/fungals as well. Its just the nature of the game.
... ghosts also counter infestors, brood lords, ultralisks, and mutas.
So yeah, overall a useless unit with no real use other than countering high templars ...
Oh, EMP works on shields does it? So it works on the whole army as well ?
... oh.
No it really shouldn't be better than HT's.
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On September 09 2011 04:12 aebriol wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 04:06 Crying wrote:
Oh,i must've read really bad :D
But yea, Terran has been dominating since january....It was fun to play the game during beta/retail 5-6months cos the game wasnt figured out and now it just seems MEH,Broodwar took iit 10-12years to get figured out and SC2 takes like a year,and yes its kinda figured out now...
The limited things an Protoss can do is for instance vs zerg FE into Stargate that is not gimmicky,but macro oriented as MC says.
In broodwar vs zerg we could've done is like skip stargate and go chargelot,archon two base ,we could've gone reaver/sair heavy harass,we could've gone standart sair into templar harass,we could've gone carriers even (Nal_Ra) :D
But now ... we are SO LIMITED by strategies,and nono its not that we havent had them figured out its just becuase that race is so scarce. Basic problem atm is that the warpgate nerf means it's safer for Z to drone a bit heavier both against 4 warpgate and 6-7 warpgate all ins, and still defend them. It's not a huge change, but it's big enough to change the balance. One thing I am waiting for protoss to try is to see that Z is taking 3 bases and droning, and take 3 bases themselves ... it should be possible to secure with cannon / pylon / warpgate placement. Because what Z is doing atm is going up to 3 bases full saturation before making units, feeling safe against pretty much anything, having figured out all the DT / VR / gateway timings. But a turtling 3 base protoss might be impossible to break with cannons / colossus defense for example ... Still, I guess it's not viable since I haven't seen any high lvl protoss even attempt it...
Getting 3 bases as protoss gets utterly countered by nydusing 3rd one or even main,and no u cant kill both of them.Nydusing two of the bases makes it hard to defend and thus u looose. TT
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On September 09 2011 03:36 Bagi wrote:
Its somewhat hilarious to see people overreact to the situation so hard though.
When even foreigner protoss are doing just fine (i.e. the skill level is not high enough for the alleged imbalance to matter as it does in GSL), what are the chances that your situation is somehow unfair or imbalanced? Not to mention that any imbalance whine at lower levels is a waste of breath when you have so much to improve on.
I suggest every protoss about to quit their race/the game because "protoss sux" to just take an analytical look at the situation. Is it really that bad, or are you just overreacting?
I agree with you 100% that for the vast majority of players - including myself, (850 Points Master) that imbalance does NOT play a large enough role in my games for it to matter.
But when it comes to the highest level of play and watching your race struggle due to possible imbalances, then people are bound to over-react and engage in balance discussion. Some of the posts are hilarious, but surely you understand why they are posting in the first place.
It's like cheering for your favorite Basketball team. Perhaps there are unfair circumstances/rules in basketball that can be abused in certain situations that have hurt the success of your favorite Team. You are also an avid basketball player but you do not play professionally. More importantly, the level you play at is affected by this unfair circumstance nearly 0% of the time. However, because your favorite team lost, you are inclined to discuss the issues with it.
Does it affect you? No. Does it affect who you cheer for? Yes.
It's quite simple.
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On September 09 2011 04:17 QTIP. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 03:36 Bagi wrote:
Its somewhat hilarious to see people overreact to the situation so hard though.
When even foreigner protoss are doing just fine (i.e. the skill level is not high enough for the alleged imbalance to matter as it does in GSL), what are the chances that your situation is somehow unfair or imbalanced? Not to mention that any imbalance whine at lower levels is a waste of breath when you have so much to improve on.
I suggest every protoss about to quit their race/the game because "protoss sux" to just take an analytical look at the situation. Is it really that bad, or are you just overreacting? I agree with you 100% that for the vast majority of players - including myself, (850 Points Master) that imbalance does NOT play a large enough role in my games for it to matter. But when it comes to the highest level of play and watching your race struggle due to possible imbalances, then people are bound to over-react and engage in balance discussion. Some of the posts are hilarious, but surely you understand why they are posting in the first place.
I can understand it from a spectators point of view, it sucks to have so few protoss left in code S and I probably wont watch next season of GomTVT either.
But saying that you quit the race because its so weak and you lose to inferior players is just bullshit.
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It's time they bring back Khaydarin Amulet. It would fix things instantly.
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Being a zerg player, I have noticed that a lot of terran players don't want to acknowledge the power of EMP against protoss - its 700+ damage INSTANTLY, while storm is potentially 700 over time that you can micro out of. Ghosts can hard counter their soft counter and act like an instant nuke to protoss.
I switched from protoss to zerg because I felt too rigid as protoss. Against terran I would use very safe openers and I rolled terrans because they weren't using ghosts. When I watch modern TvP, I think why didn't people use ghosts before?
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On September 09 2011 04:20 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 04:17 QTIP. wrote:On September 09 2011 03:36 Bagi wrote:
Its somewhat hilarious to see people overreact to the situation so hard though.
When even foreigner protoss are doing just fine (i.e. the skill level is not high enough for the alleged imbalance to matter as it does in GSL), what are the chances that your situation is somehow unfair or imbalanced? Not to mention that any imbalance whine at lower levels is a waste of breath when you have so much to improve on.
I suggest every protoss about to quit their race/the game because "protoss sux" to just take an analytical look at the situation. Is it really that bad, or are you just overreacting? I agree with you 100% that for the vast majority of players - including myself, (850 Points Master) that imbalance does NOT play a large enough role in my games for it to matter. But when it comes to the highest level of play and watching your race struggle due to possible imbalances, then people are bound to over-react and engage in balance discussion. Some of the posts are hilarious, but surely you understand why they are posting in the first place. I can understand it from a spectators point of view, it sucks to have so few protoss left in code S and I probably wont watch next season of GomTVT either. But saying that you quit the race because its so weak and you lose to inferior players is just bullshit.
Agreed. However this has nothing to do with Starcraft at all, but more to do with psychology in general. Many people are lazy and love to blame other factors for their own shortcomings. Balance is such a factor.
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+ Show Spoiler +On September 09 2011 04:12 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 03:36 flodeskum wrote:
How stupid do you have to be to think the relationship between these two casters is in any way balanced? That is because you cannot take two wildly different units and compare their "numbers" directly. Its the same as taking the hydralisk, saying that its two marines put together without stim yet they still cost 50 extra gas. Thats ridiculous and imbalanced, right? Different races are different. Now, what most protoss players don't realize that ghosts are actually meant to counter the HT. Yeah thats right, its not even meant to be an even situation in the first place. Why? Because of the effect their spells have on the opponents army. Storm is way more devastating than EMP is, it quite simply is. If the protoss gets 3+ storms off in an engagement, the terran loses unless he has a much bigger army. Even with perfect reaction times a well-placed storm means your marines die and your marauders go in the red, especially when you have the protoss army beating on you as you run away. To prevent this from happening, you absolutely have to have ghosts to negate the effect of storm. Lets imagine a situation where we have 6 spread out ghosts vs 6 templars with their respective armies. Since ghosts have these small advantages and no player has absolutely perfect control, lets assume 4 ghosts manage to EMP a templar before they cast storm: that means 2 storms are cast and the terran is hurting, but might survive the battle. As we add more ghosts/templars, the situation becomes more volatile for the terran as every missed HT costs you dearly. What comes to feedback vs EMP/snipe wars, thats another irrelevant comparision. While you can try to snipe a few ghosts with feedbacks if the terran is unaware, the reason your templars are there to cast storms. Little trades like these are exactly where ghosts excel, so the protoss player should avoid them and try to force a direct battle instead with storms. The buffed warp prism next patch can make life for terrans extremely difficult when you suddenly cannot prevent the storms from landing as well, thats something to look forward to. Of course it sucks when the whole protoss army gets blanket EMP'd by surprise and outright loses the game because of it, but the same can happen with storms/fungals as well. Its just the nature of the game.
Now, what most protoss players don't realize that ghosts are actually meant to counter the HT.
Ofc. we realize that. And that alone would be fine. But as it happens they actually also counter every single protoss unit.
Storm is way more devastating than EMP is, it quite simply is. If the protoss gets 3+ storms off in an engagement, the terran loses unless he has a much bigger army. Even with perfect reaction times a well-placed storm means your marines die and your marauders go in the red, especially when you have the protoss army beating on you as you run away.
If you land your storms, then yes. They are better than EMP.
But the thing is, a gateway army will not beat a similar food amount of bio units (which are cheaper btw) without a strong upgrade lead AND GS + FF. This worked for a while, until terran players realized that a bio army costs significantly less gas than a gateway army and a double E-bay is easily supported by heavy barracks builds compared to the gas heavy protoss army - chronoboost does mitigate this but you do have to sacrifice some important gas units in order to stay ahead of the terran in upgrades (and just keeping up will not do).
So yeah, ghost counter HT but storm is strong, yay.
Protoss still needs AOE to kill bio.
Terran does not need AOE to kill protoss but protoss has no reliable way of stopping EMPs.
Vikings and ghosts deal with every single form of protoss AOE. They are made from reactored starports and barracks with techlabs, both should be abundant in every tvp. If you want to compare the costs and time it takes to tech switch to colossi and/or HT to the costs of teching to ghosts (lol 150-50 ghost academy and it comes with emp) or reactored starports, be my guest.
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You can't look exclusively at GSL. Yes, they are the better players, but it's not out of the realm of possibility that there are more good Terran players in Korea. Even if that's because Terran is a slightly better race that still doesn't mean that you can use the GSL race distribution as a straight up indication of balance.
In the foreigner scene we have lots of great Protoss players, White_Ra, MaNa, Socke, KiWiKaKi, HuK to name a few, then there are lots more slightly less prominent ones like HasuObs, NightEnD, Adelscott, SaSe etc.
You don't see the foreigner scene being completely dominated by Terrans and you can't claim that's because foreigner Terrans are comparatively worse than foreigner Z or P because they're not.
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On September 09 2011 04:12 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 03:36 flodeskum wrote:
How stupid do you have to be to think the relationship between these two casters is in any way balanced? That is because you cannot take two wildly different units and compare their "numbers" directly. Its the same as taking the hydralisk, saying that its two marines put together without stim yet they still cost 50 extra gas. Thats ridiculous and imbalanced, right? Different races are different. Now, what most protoss players don't realize that ghosts are actually meant to counter the HT. Yeah thats right, its not even meant to be an even situation in the first place. Why? Because of the effect their spells have on the opponents army. Storm is way more devastating than EMP is, it quite simply is. If the protoss gets 3+ storms off in an engagement, the terran loses unless he has a much bigger army. Even with perfect reaction times a well-placed storm means your marines die and your marauders go in the red, especially when you have the protoss army beating on you as you run away. To prevent this from happening, you absolutely have to have ghosts to negate the effect of storm. Lets imagine a situation where we have 6 spread out ghosts vs 6 templars with their respective armies. Since ghosts have these small advantages and no player has absolutely perfect control, lets assume 4 ghosts manage to EMP a templar before they cast storm: that means 2 storms are cast and the terran is hurting, but might survive the battle. As we add more ghosts/templars, the situation becomes more volatile for the terran as every missed HT costs you dearly. What comes to feedback vs EMP/snipe wars, thats another irrelevant comparision. While you can try to snipe a few ghosts with feedbacks if the terran is unaware, the reason your templars are there to cast storms. Little trades like these are exactly where ghosts excel, so the protoss player should avoid them and try to force a direct battle instead with storms. The buffed warp prism next patch can make life for terrans extremely difficult when you suddenly cannot prevent the storms from landing as well, thats something to look forward to. Of course it sucks when the whole protoss army gets blanket EMP'd by surprise and outright loses the game because of it, but the same can happen with storms/fungals as well. Its just the nature of the game.
The ghost should not counter HT or punish ALL toss units so hard!
People forget that in BW, yeah EMP drained all shields, which makes sense, since the science vessel was really expensive, required the upgrade, and was a building past starport tier.
Ghost on the other hand can be gotten quick, come from rax and are cheap on gas with superior range and mobility compared to HT....
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Move EMP to Raven then hehe
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You are still assuming that its impossible to cast storms once ghosts are out. This is not the case, while the ghosts have a small advantage its unrealistic to expect the terran to hit every EMP and the protoss to get no storms at all.
You also forget archons, if we assume equal numbers of ghosts templars you wont have EMP to deal with archons even if you negate the templars with perfect EMPs. You also wont have any EMP left for the remaining army, and chargelot/archon trade very efficiently with a bio army.
If we're assuming the terran has a ridiculous amount of ghosts out (10+), you have to assume that colossi and vikings are out well, and it just becomes even more complicated. You should try negating all the AOE damage when the protoss has a combination of HT/archon/colossi out, even with 10+ ghosts its harder than you'd think.
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On September 09 2011 02:26 Trealador wrote:
MC has not kept up with the meta game, that is why is he is in Code A. I just looked at the winrate for the last GSL, there was nothing you could point out and call imbalanced from looking at it. Generally if its bio vs standard protoss builds the better player wins, and the ghost vs HT is pretty balanced at the highest level. I don't know why people expect perfect HT control and the best way to play everything after just 1 year of the game being out.
Terrans made ghosts when HT had KA, but warping in storms was insanely not working as intended as EMP is intended to be needed to weaken the protoss army and have a way to challenge timings protoss have in upgrade advantages. Terran have no good Tier 3 units against protoss and need to spam barracks and tier 2 units to win, this is why the match up is balanced.
Honestly I am starting to agree with IdrA more and more that Protoss are just dumb. They do crazy all in strats that really seem half baked (Trickster vs taeja) and players like MC getting raped because he can't scout.
I just don't see much change in the protoss in the GSL and terran and zerg just seem to have them figured out in the few timings they can use early. I personally would like to see protoss use their chrono more efficiently instead of having it pool up. Instead of making additional 2 gateways, if they spent their chrono all game on the gateways they would get more units out for the gateways they have.
The thread does seem pretty bad, but mostly because people don't want to actually hear anything other than "omg I know, isn't it imba!"
I play terran and I know blue flame was imba, i know the 1/1/1 is imba, and I know immortals are terrible. I also know that if a protoss lands 2 storms it completely changes the game, that is why HT are easier to hit with EMP. Terran can reduce their shields but not actually kill with EMP, and the reason a lot of protoss are losing HT is because they are trying to run to save the storm instead of just using feedback. It takes them 2 clicks to snipe a HT, and 1 click to feedback, come on now.
I too have noticed that MC keeps repeating the same strategies
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On September 09 2011 04:45 Rorschach wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 04:12 Bagi wrote:On September 09 2011 03:36 flodeskum wrote:
How stupid do you have to be to think the relationship between these two casters is in any way balanced? That is because you cannot take two wildly different units and compare their "numbers" directly. Its the same as taking the hydralisk, saying that its two marines put together without stim yet they still cost 50 extra gas. Thats ridiculous and imbalanced, right? Different races are different. Now, what most protoss players don't realize that ghosts are actually meant to counter the HT. Yeah thats right, its not even meant to be an even situation in the first place. Why? Because of the effect their spells have on the opponents army. Storm is way more devastating than EMP is, it quite simply is. If the protoss gets 3+ storms off in an engagement, the terran loses unless he has a much bigger army. Even with perfect reaction times a well-placed storm means your marines die and your marauders go in the red, especially when you have the protoss army beating on you as you run away. To prevent this from happening, you absolutely have to have ghosts to negate the effect of storm. Lets imagine a situation where we have 6 spread out ghosts vs 6 templars with their respective armies. Since ghosts have these small advantages and no player has absolutely perfect control, lets assume 4 ghosts manage to EMP a templar before they cast storm: that means 2 storms are cast and the terran is hurting, but might survive the battle. As we add more ghosts/templars, the situation becomes more volatile for the terran as every missed HT costs you dearly. What comes to feedback vs EMP/snipe wars, thats another irrelevant comparision. While you can try to snipe a few ghosts with feedbacks if the terran is unaware, the reason your templars are there to cast storms. Little trades like these are exactly where ghosts excel, so the protoss player should avoid them and try to force a direct battle instead with storms. The buffed warp prism next patch can make life for terrans extremely difficult when you suddenly cannot prevent the storms from landing as well, thats something to look forward to. Of course it sucks when the whole protoss army gets blanket EMP'd by surprise and outright loses the game because of it, but the same can happen with storms/fungals as well. Its just the nature of the game. The ghost should not counter HT or punish ALL toss units so hard! People forget that in BW, yeah EMP drained all shields, which makes sense, since the science vessel was really expensive, required the upgrade, and was a building past starport tier. Ghost on the other hand can be gotten quick, come from rax and are cheap on gas with superior range and mobility compared to HT....
The main point in BW is that Terran doesn't play like a jacked up version of Protoss with higher mobility, survivability, and DPS so something like EMP isn't as overwhelming.
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On September 09 2011 04:40 hugman wrote:
You can't look exclusively at GSL. Yes, they are the better players, but it's not out of the realm of possibility that there are more good Terran players in Korea. Even if that's because Terran is a slightly better race that still doesn't mean that you can use the GSL race distribution as a straight up indication of balance.
In the foreigner scene we have lots of great Protoss players, White_Ra, MaNa, Socke, KiWiKaKi, HuK to name a few, then there are lots more slightly less prominent ones like HasuObs, NightEnD, Adelscott, SaSe etc.
You don't see the foreigner scene being completely dominated by Terrans and you can't claim that's because foreigner Terrans are comparatively worse than foreigner Z or P because they're not.
Why is it plausible that Korean Terrans are simply better than their Zerg and Protoss counterparts, but implausible that foreigner Zergs and Protosses are better in the same way?
Yeah, I know, it's because the latter doesn't fit your preconceived notion, while the former does.
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I think MC vs. Puma at IEM should be required viewing before discussing balance right now. It represents the "what if?" of theorycraft actually happening. Prior to this series, it was a nebulous claim to say that ghost was overpowered, and it was easy to brush it off as "just theorycrafting."
Puma showed it could play out as many theorized. Ghosts are simply superior in every possible way if you look at the numbers. And going beyond the numbers - if we are to remove casters from the equation, gateway units lose to MM[M]. So Ghosts are actually an overkill unit in a sense, as psionic storm can at least be mitigated without EMP (as proven in the past, when Terrans rarely made ghost - and winrates were not so lopsided).
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On September 09 2011 04:55 Toadvine wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 04:40 hugman wrote:
You can't look exclusively at GSL. Yes, they are the better players, but it's not out of the realm of possibility that there are more good Terran players in Korea. Even if that's because Terran is a slightly better race that still doesn't mean that you can use the GSL race distribution as a straight up indication of balance.
In the foreigner scene we have lots of great Protoss players, White_Ra, MaNa, Socke, KiWiKaKi, HuK to name a few, then there are lots more slightly less prominent ones like HasuObs, NightEnD, Adelscott, SaSe etc.
You don't see the foreigner scene being completely dominated by Terrans and you can't claim that's because foreigner Terrans are comparatively worse than foreigner Z or P because they're not. Why is it plausible that Korean Terrans are simply better than their Zerg and Protoss counterparts, but implausible that foreigner Zergs and Protosses are better in the same way? Yeah, I know, it's because the latter doesn't fit your preconceived notion, while the former does.
Because foreigner Terrans haven't been doing worse than foreigner P & Z against Koreans.
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On September 09 2011 04:54 Cyrak wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 04:45 Rorschach wrote:On September 09 2011 04:12 Bagi wrote:On September 09 2011 03:36 flodeskum wrote:
How stupid do you have to be to think the relationship between these two casters is in any way balanced? That is because you cannot take two wildly different units and compare their "numbers" directly. Its the same as taking the hydralisk, saying that its two marines put together without stim yet they still cost 50 extra gas. Thats ridiculous and imbalanced, right? Different races are different. Now, what most protoss players don't realize that ghosts are actually meant to counter the HT. Yeah thats right, its not even meant to be an even situation in the first place. Why? Because of the effect their spells have on the opponents army. Storm is way more devastating than EMP is, it quite simply is. If the protoss gets 3+ storms off in an engagement, the terran loses unless he has a much bigger army. Even with perfect reaction times a well-placed storm means your marines die and your marauders go in the red, especially when you have the protoss army beating on you as you run away. To prevent this from happening, you absolutely have to have ghosts to negate the effect of storm. Lets imagine a situation where we have 6 spread out ghosts vs 6 templars with their respective armies. Since ghosts have these small advantages and no player has absolutely perfect control, lets assume 4 ghosts manage to EMP a templar before they cast storm: that means 2 storms are cast and the terran is hurting, but might survive the battle. As we add more ghosts/templars, the situation becomes more volatile for the terran as every missed HT costs you dearly. What comes to feedback vs EMP/snipe wars, thats another irrelevant comparision. While you can try to snipe a few ghosts with feedbacks if the terran is unaware, the reason your templars are there to cast storms. Little trades like these are exactly where ghosts excel, so the protoss player should avoid them and try to force a direct battle instead with storms. The buffed warp prism next patch can make life for terrans extremely difficult when you suddenly cannot prevent the storms from landing as well, thats something to look forward to. Of course it sucks when the whole protoss army gets blanket EMP'd by surprise and outright loses the game because of it, but the same can happen with storms/fungals as well. Its just the nature of the game. The ghost should not counter HT or punish ALL toss units so hard! People forget that in BW, yeah EMP drained all shields, which makes sense, since the science vessel was really expensive, required the upgrade, and was a building past starport tier. Ghost on the other hand can be gotten quick, come from rax and are cheap on gas with superior range and mobility compared to HT.... The main point in BW is that Terran doesn't play like a jacked up version of Protoss with higher mobility, survivability, and DPS so something like EMP isn't as overwhelming.
Shields took way more damage in brood war, especially from terran's common mech units. EMP wasn't nearly as abundant, did less "damage", and required real micro to hit or even just use en mass. When you think of it that way you can see why it was basically reserved to draining arbiters of their energy.
On September 09 2011 05:06 Brotocol wrote:
I think MC vs. Puma at IEM should be required viewing before discussing balance right now. It represents the "what if?" of theorycraft actually happening. Prior to this series, it was a nebulous claim to say that ghost was overpowered, and it was easy to brush it off as "just theorycrafting."
Puma showed it could play out as many theorized. Ghosts are simply superior in every possible way if you look at the numbers. And going beyond the numbers - if we are to remove casters from the equation, gateway units lose to MM[M]. So Ghosts are actually an overkill unit in a sense, as psionic storm can at least be mitigated without EMP (as proven in the past, when Terrans rarely made ghost - and winrates were not so lopsided).
MMM should die to big quantities of high upgrade zealot/archon off a strong economy and lots of gates (Still easier said than done haha). There would also still be Colossi which wreck bio in the face even if Vikings are super good against them.
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On September 09 2011 04:49 Bagi wrote:
You are still assuming that its impossible to cast storms once ghosts are out. This is not the case, while the ghosts have a small advantage its unrealistic to expect the terran to hit every EMP and the protoss to get no storms at all.
I don't assume that. It does happen though, blanketing a protoss army when you have 7+ emps available is clearly not that hard for a progamer. But even if you get a storm off, or even 2-4 storms. They can be dodged, most of their damage can be mitigated. Sometimes terrans don't even bother with dodging them and still do fine (see taeja vs JYP). I think you underestimate just how strong MMM is vs gateway units. You need your storms to do a lot of damage, just getting a storm off doesn't really do much when your core army is so much weaker.
You also forget archons, if we assume equal numbers of ghosts templars you wont have EMP to deal with archons even if you negate the templars with perfect EMPs. You also wont have any EMP left for the remaining army, and chargelot/archon trade very efficiently with a bio army.
Chargelot archon needs a good position to trade efficiently and it is so vulnerable to drop play and EMP that I don't see many players staying with that comp for long.
If we're assuming the terran has a ridiculous amount of ghosts out (10+), you have to assume that colossi and vikings are out well, and it just becomes even more complicated. You should try negating all the AOE damage when the protoss has a combination of HT/archon/colossi out, even with 10+ ghosts its harder than you'd think.
Well if you think that 10 ghosts is an unreasonable figure when the protoss has archons, colossi AND templars ... and upgrades too? The terran army is not limited by gas in the same way the protoss is. 10 ghosts is not uncommon if the games gets beyond 2-3 base.
And yes, it does require good micro to blanket the protoss army with EMPs. That is still doable and it wins you games. All the protoss can do is spread out and hope the terran misses.
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EPT
