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Its somewhat hilarious to see people overreact to the situation so hard though.
When even foreigner protoss are doing just fine (i.e. the skill level is not high enough for the alleged imbalance to matter as it does in GSL), what are the chances that your situation is somehow unfair or imbalanced? Not to mention that any imbalance whine at lower levels is a waste of breath when you have so much to improve on.
I suggest every protoss about to quit their race/the game because "protoss sux" to just take an analytical look at the situation. Is it really that bad, or are you just overreacting?
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On September 09 2011 02:26 Trealador wrote:
MC has not kept up with the meta game, that is why is he is in Code A. I just looked at the winrate for the last GSL, there was nothing you could point out and call imbalanced from looking at it. Generally if its bio vs standard protoss builds the better player wins, and the ghost vs HT is pretty balanced at the highest level. I don't know why people expect perfect HT control and the best way to play everything after just 1 year of the game being out.
I don't know anyone who actually know what they are talking about who thinks this is true. Because it quite clearly is not.
Let me just pull out a few stats on those two units:
Speed: Ghost: 2.25 --- High Templar1.875 - The ghost is faster
Spell range: EMP: 10 (plus splash radius of 2), Sniper Round: 10 --- Feedback: 9 - The ghosts spells have longer range
Sight range: Ghost:11 --- High Templar: 10 - the ghost even has a longer fucking sight radius
Cloak: Ghost: hells yeah --- High Templar: the slowest and most visible unit in the entire game... it leaves a glowing trail ffs
And this is just the pure unit vs unit. Not to mention that you cannot prevent a scan from spotting your high templar but you can easily snipe observers with a scan and a viking... and did I mention the whole cloak thing?
How stupid do you have to be to think the relationship between these two casters is in any way balanced?
On September 09 2011 02:26 Trealador wrote:
Honestly I am starting to agree with IdrA more and more that Protoss are just dumb. They do crazy all in strats that really seem half baked (Trickster vs taeja) and players like MC getting raped because he can't scout.
Oh... I see. Well, good luck with that theory.
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On September 09 2011 03:36 Bagi wrote:
Its somewhat hilarious to see people overreact to the situation so hard though.
When even foreigner protoss are doing just fine (i.e. the skill level is not high enough for the alleged imbalance to matter as it does in GSL), what are the chances that your situation is somehow unfair or imbalanced? Not to mention that any imbalance whine at lower levels is a waste of breath when you have so much to improve on.
I suggest every protoss about to quit their race/the game because "protoss sux" to just take an analytical look at the situation. Is it really that bad, or are you just overreacting?
You are zerg/terran aren't you?Change your race to Protoss,and 3-4months after u've learned it kinda ok we can speak
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On September 09 2011 03:39 Crying wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 03:36 Bagi wrote:
Its somewhat hilarious to see people overreact to the situation so hard though.
When even foreigner protoss are doing just fine (i.e. the skill level is not high enough for the alleged imbalance to matter as it does in GSL), what are the chances that your situation is somehow unfair or imbalanced? Not to mention that any imbalance whine at lower levels is a waste of breath when you have so much to improve on.
I suggest every protoss about to quit their race/the game because "protoss sux" to just take an analytical look at the situation. Is it really that bad, or are you just overreacting? You are zerg/terran aren't you?Change your race to Protoss,and 3-4months after u've learned it kinda ok we can speak
Please, post a link to your SC2ranks profile. I'm genuinely interested what level of player you are when imbalance is holding you back so much.
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On September 09 2011 03:20 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 03:16 Rorschach wrote:On September 09 2011 03:09 aebriol wrote:
People are referring to MC as the only protoss ...
Well he IS in a slump ... he is not 'the best' protoss atm, which he used to be.
Also, NesTea IS the only zerg ... so he basically have the same position.
Clearest evidence, imho, of the imbalance, is that so many different terrans, who seem mediocre at times, can outfight and beat the best protoss and zergs at any time.
Atm the 20 5 7 race distribution of T P Z in code S just shows that it's easier for a mediocre terran to succeed, than a mediocre P or Z.
And yes, by 'mediocre' I mean a non-dominant korean, who is actually better than 100% of foreigners ...
I think that if ...
Terran CC's couldn't lift off, so you actually could know whether or not and when a terran expands, would solve so much ... because atm you will easily lose the economy game, if you overprepare when you think the terran is 1 or 2 basing, while they are in fact building orbitals hidden in their main behind patrolling marines. And if you don't overprepare, the all ins are extremely powerful due to the same patrolling marines and wall offs. its not just MC, all toss are taking a nose dive SPOILERS MC - In Code A Alicia - Also knocked into code A Naniwa - Lack luster results the last few months Huk - ??? WhiteRa - Love him but also no tourney results I also hate terran command center lift off (don't care about other buildings as with switching addons it needed) Huk won DH Summer and HSC3, White-Ra won IPL2. Foreigner protoss are doing just fine currently, just look at someone like Mana who is beasting every tournament he attends.
i only even mention WhitRa as i love the guy. He nor any other European Protoss measures up to the high level of Korean play. Huk is the closest foreigner to do so since he has been in Korea... most foreign toss would be laughable even against code A players....
GSL protoss are slumping as are toss everywhere..
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On September 09 2011 03:41 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 03:39 Crying wrote:On September 09 2011 03:36 Bagi wrote:
Its somewhat hilarious to see people overreact to the situation so hard though.
When even foreigner protoss are doing just fine (i.e. the skill level is not high enough for the alleged imbalance to matter as it does in GSL), what are the chances that your situation is somehow unfair or imbalanced? Not to mention that any imbalance whine at lower levels is a waste of breath when you have so much to improve on.
I suggest every protoss about to quit their race/the game because "protoss sux" to just take an analytical look at the situation. Is it really that bad, or are you just overreacting? You are zerg/terran aren't you?Change your race to Protoss,and 3-4months after u've learned it kinda ok we can speak Please, post a link to your SC2ranks profile. I'm genuinely interested what level of player you are when imbalance is holding you back so much.
Im 600masters protoss,i have things to improve ofc,but its ridiculously stupid how imba some situations may look.Be honest with yourself and think abit,IS it truly that protoss is fine?Tell me?
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I am a Zerg player so I am pretty unbiased when watching the TvP matchup.
Something has struck me recently when watching the Taeja vs JYP match from the up and down matches. Both players had big armies, both were macro-ing pretty hard and near the last 5 minutes of the game, Taeja was floating 2500gas!
Now, either his macro had slipped up ( which would be weird given that JYP was spending all his money and still had troubles keeping up), or the fact is that the Terran army simply does not need as much gas.
Now this comes to me as pretty strange. The fact that Terran can muster up such a potent force with basically only minerals to spend. Gas, being the rare resource in this game, should be the one that brings power to someone's army and not minerals. For the other two races, minerals are mainly used as a dump, for expanding and meat-units (zealots, stalkers, lings, roaches)
The surplus of gas means he will be ahead in upgrades, while the MULEs will make sure that as he is gathering more minerals than his oponent he will be able to churn out a bigger army.
Seems kinda fucked up to me:
* Bio-balls are a very potent, mainly mineral intensive army
* Terran MULEs greatly increase the mineral income of the Terran
* The counter to Bio, because of their efficiency, are gas heavy units.
* Gas is considerably more scarce than minerals
* Not needing as much gas to invest into his army, the Terran will always have plenty to sink into upgrades (think 2 ebays), thus keeping ahead in efficiency.
Anyone care to comment on my analysis?
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On September 09 2011 03:36 Bagi wrote:
I suggest every protoss about to quit their race/the game because "protoss sux" to just take an analytical look at the situation. Is it really that bad, or are you just overreacting?
I suggest an alternative: Try playing as protoss for a good stretch of time, then come back here and let us know if you are of the same opinion as before... walk in the shoes of a protoss player for a bit... I think the best people to criticize the situation of the protoss race are the protoss players, no?
Unless you think it'll affect your performance, in which case the point has already been made.
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On September 09 2011 03:36 Bagi wrote:
Its somewhat hilarious to see people overreact to the situation so hard though.
When even foreigner protoss are doing just fine (i.e. the skill level is not high enough for the alleged imbalance to matter as it does in GSL), what are the chances that your situation is somehow unfair or imbalanced? Not to mention that any imbalance whine at lower levels is a waste of breath when you have so much to improve on.
I suggest every protoss about to quit their race/the game because "protoss sux" to just take an analytical look at the situation. Is it really that bad, or are you just overreacting?
you need to understand that even if 99% it may not come into play at our level it still matters lot. it hurts esports, which we all watch and an imbalanced RTS is not a game anyone wants to waste time with at a Pro lvl.
Sure we can have fun in our own personal games but for a lot of people who watch more Tournaments then do actual playing themselves the experience is ruined...
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On September 09 2011 02:47 hugman wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 02:33 Toadvine wrote:Just as an aside, if you want to see a non 1/1/1 PvT where the better player loses, watch MC vs PuMa at IEM. It was a funny experience, reading the LR thread and listening to the cast, both of them in awe of how MC was outplaying PuMa. And then PuMa sniped a warp prism, and rolled MC with some EMPs despite being behind the whole game and losing 3 drops for nothing. MC didn't outplay Puma, he was ahead in supply because he wasn't getting upgrades when Puma rushed to 2/2. Then MC attacked at a really bad angle and lost most of his army for very little, didn't get any good storms off and then proceeded to get all his remaining clumped HT EMPed. He was even the one who forced the engagement, he lost the game because of clear mistakes. Shit like that doesn't belong in a balance discussion, sorry. It's better to try to find mistakes in people's play than to blame it on balance when talking about specific games. edit: oh btw, he lost his Warp Prism by flying it directly over the bioball. It was his mistakes that lost him the game.
PuMa had 3/2 vs MCs 2/2 when that engagement happened.
Let me put it this way: PuMa lost 3 Medivacs worth of units, that's 30 supply. Have you ever seen a PvT where the Protoss loses 30 supply worth of units without achieving anything, and then goes on to win anyway because he's 1 attack upgrade ahead and lands a good Storm? It never happens. The Terran just a-moves over him.
Whenever Zerg lost to proxy Reapers in GSL Season 1, there were always Terrans in the LR thread, ready to point out the mistakes they made. And truly, the Zergs did make mistakes. But that's not the point. I watch Terrans, really good Terrans, play, and then do make mistakes that would be game ending for a Protoss or Zerg, but it just doesn't matter. One funny example is HuK vs Bomber in GSL August groupstages, where Bomber overcommits to an attack, loses everything without killing much at all, then loses the reinforcing units, but holds the counter easily because he can make 4 bunkers and repair. In a similar situation vs a Terran, a Zerg or Protoss will be 100% dead. Ideally, the game should allow the kind of reactive defense, where you don't lose the game after a bad engagement, but at the moment it's only true for Terran.
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Actually People who reroll their race just to play imbalanced one ex.Byun (he said he switched terran cos its imblaanced if im not mistaken)?
It reminds me of the FOTM rerollers n WoW Arena (FoTM=Flavor Of the Month)
People that literally had every class,and played the one most OP on the season.
Its damn laughable,cos u can't just learn an race for a day or month,but u can learn a class for less if u are ok with skill.
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On September 09 2011 03:49 Toadvine wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 02:47 hugman wrote:On September 09 2011 02:33 Toadvine wrote:Just as an aside, if you want to see a non 1/1/1 PvT where the better player loses, watch MC vs PuMa at IEM. It was a funny experience, reading the LR thread and listening to the cast, both of them in awe of how MC was outplaying PuMa. And then PuMa sniped a warp prism, and rolled MC with some EMPs despite being behind the whole game and losing 3 drops for nothing. MC didn't outplay Puma, he was ahead in supply because he wasn't getting upgrades when Puma rushed to 2/2. Then MC attacked at a really bad angle and lost most of his army for very little, didn't get any good storms off and then proceeded to get all his remaining clumped HT EMPed. He was even the one who forced the engagement, he lost the game because of clear mistakes. Shit like that doesn't belong in a balance discussion, sorry. It's better to try to find mistakes in people's play than to blame it on balance when talking about specific games. edit: oh btw, he lost his Warp Prism by flying it directly over the bioball. It was his mistakes that lost him the game. PuMa had 3/2 vs MCs 2/2 when that engagement happened. Let me put it this way: PuMa lost 3 Medivacs worth of units, that's 30 supply. Have you ever seen a PvT where the Protoss loses 30 supply worth of units without achieving anything, and then goes on to win anyway because he's 1 attack upgrade ahead and lands a good Storm? It never happens. The Terran just a-moves over him. Whenever Zerg lost to proxy Reapers in GSL Season 1, there were always Terrans in the LR thread, ready to point out the mistakes they made. And truly, the Zergs did make mistakes. But that's not the point. I watch Terrans, really good Terrans, play, and then do make mistakes that would be game ending for a Protoss or Zerg, but it just doesn't matter. One funny example is HuK vs Bomber in GSL August groupstages, where Bomber overcommits to an attack, loses everything without killing much at all, then loses the reinforcing units, but holds the counter easily because he can make 4 bunkers and repair. In a similar situation vs a Terran, a Zerg or Protoss will be 100% dead. Ideally, the game should allow the kind of reactive defense, where you don't lose the game after a bad engagement, but at the moment it's only true for Terran.
Terran is too damn forgiving of mistakes and their bio units are really just BW dragoons and zealots in terran skins with stim....
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And people should be honest about Is starcraft balanced?Really.
Its disgusting to see a Terran saying no we are fine protoss OP, im just smiling when they say it,its just PATHETIC.I mean be honest with yourself one time in your life.
Mad props to DeMuSliM who said on SOTG that he doesnt use so much ghosts in ZVT when idra says he must use them,and he says that GHOSTS ARE OP?MAD PROPS TO THAT GUY for ADMITTING he's playing imba race
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I actually think people should just switch races for a month if their race is UP for them. Go out and collect your free wins when you face your old race, and learn a thing or two about the other.
If people just switched when they got mad there would be a ton less imba whining and a ton more game evolution.
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On September 09 2011 03:24 Rob28 wrote:
I've played as both Terran and Protoss at the diamond level (back when it was the highest level), and I gotta say that unless someone has invested as much time into one race as the other, their "opinions" on the matter of race balance ought to be kept to themselves.
... that's ages ago, and shows that 'proof' is perception.
Because right now, the problem is after the patch that were supposed to fix pvp 4 warpgate, and nerfed pvz and pvt instead.
I've been master zerg all three seasons, about mid lvl in my division (50th place), and what bothers me is that - looking back - at every GSL season - you will see that Terran have dominated, with Z and P staying relatively even in code S (if you count from january, and not the open season). It's just this upcoming october season that have an incredible terran domination (20) and very few P (5) with normal zergs (7).
I think that protoss that complain, are looking at their race, and forgetting that the dominant race have always been terran ...
Buffing protoss ... certainly, that should be done to a certain degree.
But that will not fix the balance.
What's needed are some real terran nerfs that affect both matchups.
And I think the clearest evidence for that is in - as I said - how many mediocre terrans make it far in tournaments, while that's just not very true of zergs and protoss.
... and yes, I do stand by my statement that MC is in a slump. And I think atm that Puzzle and Genius are better players actually. But overall in the year, yeah of course MC have been the better player.
Looking at the state of the game right now I think that:
- Terran CC's not being able to lift off would be a general and needed nerf.
- Reversing the 4 warpgate time nerf, would bring back the viability of 4, 6 and 7 warpgate pushes.
Beyond that ... sure buff warp prism. Buff immortal a little (will make it insanely powerful vs zergs that goes too heavy on roaches), maybe nerf infestors a little (because, in fact, the best zergs aren't using infestors that much, it's the good zergs that are in love with them because they can exploit opponents lack of APM when harassing multiple fronts with them, but when fighting the very best it's just not as effective.
If 'metagame' changes is going to actually have an effect, we need terrans nerfed to the point that it's not unlikely, when Z and P comes up with new cool strategies, that terrans suddenly find themselves being the minority race for a season or two. As is, Z have been the minority race in every single season of code S, except for october, with P having 1 or 2 more players, and now for october, they have 2 less players than Z ...
Again ...
Month - - - T - - P - - Z
October - 20 - - 5 - - 7
August- - 17 - - 8 - - 7
July - - - 15 - - 9 - - 8
May - - - -14 - -10- - 8
March - - 15- - -9 - - 8
January- -14 - - 9 - - 9
That's the situation after a year of terran and protoss nerfs and zerg buffs ... pretty much.
So yeah, I don't think it would be wrong to buff P some now, but I think that in many ways it's looking at the problem wrong ... what's really needed, is some change to how many options terrans have, or some significant nerfs, because for one race to dominate that strongly for so long, just seems wrong to me. It proves that it isn't the metagame changing as much as one would like to think ... it's across all the changes from january, Terran have always been and remains the strongest race. Just buffing protoss back to having 8-9 representatives in code S doesn't fix the overall problem.
I wouldn't mind if some months there were 15 terrans, some months 15 protoss, some months 15 zergs ... I somewhat mind that looking at this, I find clear proof that those players that are not outstanding and or in a slump can still make it to code S ... if they play terran.
I doubt many players would argue that Marineking isn't in a slump atm ... he still made it, and he didn't play all that well. I saw all his matches in code A and in the qualification. Atm he is really lacking and have fallen behind in the terran metagame and playing style. He does quite a few 1 base all ins, which he doesn't execute that well either ... but ... he still made it. In a tie-breaker. Same way that LosirA - the second best zerg in the world - made it.
I feel that the biggest problem with Terran right now is that it's impossible to know whether or not they are going for an economic opening or an all in.
With other races you know.
The whole Z v P metagame is based off: did Protoss make an expansion before 6:20 ? If not, which harass / all in is coming? Count the amount of sentries, etc, to get an idea.
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On September 09 2011 03:54 aebriol wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 03:24 Rob28 wrote:
I've played as both Terran and Protoss at the diamond level (back when it was the highest level), and I gotta say that unless someone has invested as much time into one race as the other, their "opinions" on the matter of race balance ought to be kept to themselves. ... that's ages ago, and shows that 'proof' is perception. Because right now, the problem is after the patch that were supposed to fix pvp 4 warpgate, and nerfed pvz and pvt instead. I've been master zerg all three seasons, about mid lvl in my division (50th place), and what bothers me is that - looking back - at every GSL season - you will see that Terran have dominated, with Z and P staying relatively even in code S (if you count from january, and not the open season). It's just this upcoming october season that have an incredible terran domination (20) and very few P (5) with normal zergs (7). I think that protoss that complain, are looking at their race, and forgetting that the dominant race have always been terran ... Buffing protoss ... certainly, that should be done to a certain degree. But that will not fix the balance. What's needed are some real terran nerfs that affect both matchups. And I think the clearest evidence for that is in - as I said - how many mediocre terrans make it far in tournaments, while that's just not very true of zergs and protoss. ... and yes, I do stand by my statement that MC is in a slump. And I think atm that Puzzle and Genius are better players actually. But overall in the year, yeah of course MC have been the better player. Looking at the state of the game right now I think that: - Terran CC's not being able to lift off would be a general and needed nerf. - Reversing the 4 warpgate time nerf, would bring back the viability of 4, 6 and 7 warpgate pushes. Beyond that ... sure buff warp prism. Buff immortal a little (will make it insanely powerful vs zergs that goes too heavy on roaches), maybe nerf infestors a little (because, in fact, the best zergs aren't using infestors that much, it's the good zergs that are in love with them because they can exploit opponents lack of APM when harassing multiple fronts with them, but when fighting the very best it's just not as effective. If 'metagame' changes is going to actually have an effect, we need terrans nerfed to the point that it's not unlikely, when Z and P comes up with new cool strategies, that terrans suddenly find themselves being the minority race for a season or two. As is, Z have been the minority race in every single season of code S, except for october, with P having 1 or 2 more players, and now for october, they have 2 less players than Z ... Again ... Month - - - T - - P - - Z October - 20 - - 5 - - 7 August- - 17 - - 8 - - 7 July - - - 15 - - 9 - - 8 May - - - -14 - -10- - 8 March - - 15- - -9 - - 8 January- -14 - - 9 - - 9 That's the situation after a year of terran and protoss nerfs and zerg buffs ... pretty much. So yeah, I don't think it would be wrong to buff P some now, but I think that in many ways it's looking at the problem wrong ... what's really needed, is some change to how many options terrans have, or some significant nerfs, because for one race to dominate that strongly for so long, just seems wrong to me. It proves that it isn't the metagame changing as much as one would like to think ... it's across all the changes from january, Terran have always been and remains the strongest race. Just buffing protoss back to having 8-9 representatives in code S doesn't fix the overall problem. I wouldn't mind if some months there were 15 terrans, some months 15 protoss, some months 15 zergs ... I somewhat mind that looking at this, I find clear proof that those players that are not outstanding and or in a slump can still make it to code S ... if they play terran. I doubt many players would argue that Marineking isn't in a slump atm ... he still made it, and he didn't play all that well. I saw all his matches in code A and in the qualification. Atm he is really lacking and have fallen behind in the terran metagame and playing style. He does quite a few 1 base all ins, which he doesn't execute that well either ... but ... he still made it. In a tie-breaker. Same way that LosirA - the second best zerg in the world - made it. I feel that the biggest problem with Terran right now is that it's impossible to know whether or not they are going for an economic opening or an all in. With other races you know. The whole Z v P metagame is based off: did Protoss make an expansion before 6:20 ? If not, which harass / all in is coming? Count the amount of sentries, etc, to get an idea.
Month - - - T - - P - - Z
October - 20 - - 5 - - 7
August- - 17 - - 8 - - 7
July - - - 15 - - 9 - - 8
May - - - -14 - -10- - 8
March - - 15- - -9 - - 8
January- -14 - - 9 - - 9
Thats the situation after Protoss and Zergs gimmicks are already truly figured out..
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On September 09 2011 03:58 Crying wrote:
Month - - - T - - P - - Z
October - 20 - - 5 - - 7
August- - 17 - - 8 - - 7
July - - - 15 - - 9 - - 8
May - - - -14 - -10- - 8
March - - 15- - -9 - - 8
January- -14 - - 9 - - 9
Thats the situation after Protoss and Zergs gimmicks are already truly figured out..
... yeah that's basically what I wrote.
I mean, yeah, protoss do need a buff of some sort - but honestly, reverting the warpgate nerf in last patch would probably bring them more or less in line with Z when it comes to viability ...
I think that more is needed, but not just buffs to P ... I think that the overall options of Terrans have to be limiited in some ways, or the race nerfed overall, because they are not just dominating P atm ... they have been dominating in all matchups since january.
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On September 09 2011 04:02 aebriol wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 03:58 Crying wrote:
Month - - - T - - P - - Z
October - 20 - - 5 - - 7
August- - 17 - - 8 - - 7
July - - - 15 - - 9 - - 8
May - - - -14 - -10- - 8
March - - 15- - -9 - - 8
January- -14 - - 9 - - 9
Thats the situation after Protoss and Zergs gimmicks are already truly figured out..
... yeah that's basically what I wrote. I mean, yeah, protoss do need a buff of some sort - but honestly, reverting the warpgate nerf in last patch would probably bring them more or less in line with Z when it comes to viability ... I think that more is needed, but not just buffs to P ... I think that the overall options of Terrans have to be limiited in some ways, or the race nerfed overall, because they are not just dominating P atm ... they have been dominating in all matchups since january.
Oh,i must've read really bad :D
But yea, Terran has been dominating since january....It was fun to play the game during beta/retail 5-6months cos the game wasnt figured out and now it just seems MEH,Broodwar took iit 10-12years to get figured out and SC2 takes like a year,and yes its kinda figured out now...
The limited things an Protoss can do is for instance vs zerg FE into Stargate that is not gimmicky,but macro oriented as MC says.
In broodwar vs zerg we could've done is like skip stargate and go chargelot,archon two base ,we could've gone reaver/sair heavy harass,we could've gone standart sair into templar harass,we could've gone carriers even (Nal_Ra) :D
But now ... we are SO LIMITED by strategies,and nono its not that we havent had them figured out its just becuase that race is so scarce.
And my last words are that really,BW will be played for a year or two more,and still be so mch good,only the worst players of BW the ones that had almost no opportunities switched over(except NaDa,BoxeR,July) others were joke in BW even MVP and PUMA were,when put next to Bisu Flash Jae,Stork and any other big titan
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finally got around to watching game 1 of IEM finals. How anybody can watch that and think the primary reason for MC's loss was his own mistakes is beyond me.
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On September 09 2011 03:36 flodeskum wrote:
How stupid do you have to be to think the relationship between these two casters is in any way balanced?
That is because you cannot take two wildly different units and compare their "numbers" directly. Its the same as taking the hydralisk, saying that its two marines put together without stim yet they still cost 50 extra gas. Thats ridiculous and imbalanced, right? Different races are different.
Now, what most protoss players don't realize that ghosts are actually meant to counter the HT. Yeah thats right, its not even meant to be an even situation in the first place. Why? Because of the effect their spells have on the opponents army. Storm is way more devastating than EMP is, it quite simply is. If the protoss gets 3+ storms off in an engagement, the terran loses unless he has a much bigger army. Even with perfect reaction times a well-placed storm means your marines die and your marauders go in the red, especially when you have the protoss army beating on you as you run away.
To prevent this from happening, you absolutely have to have ghosts to negate the effect of storm. Lets imagine a situation where we have 6 spread out ghosts vs 6 templars with their respective armies. Since ghosts have these small advantages and no player has absolutely perfect control, lets assume 4 ghosts manage to EMP a templar before they cast storm: that means 2 storms are cast and the terran is hurting, but might survive the battle. As we add more ghosts/templars, the situation becomes more volatile for the terran as every missed HT costs you dearly.
What comes to feedback vs EMP/snipe wars, thats another irrelevant comparision. While you can try to snipe a few ghosts with feedbacks if the terran is unaware, the reason your templars are there to cast storms. Little trades like these are exactly where ghosts excel, so the protoss player should avoid them and try to force a direct battle instead with storms. The buffed warp prism next patch can make life for terrans extremely difficult when you suddenly cannot prevent the storms from landing as well, thats something to look forward to.
Of course it sucks when the whole protoss army gets blanket EMP'd by surprise and outright loses the game because of it, but the same can happen with storms/fungals as well. Its just the nature of the game.
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EPT
