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On August 28 2013 20:28 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2013 16:18 Insoleet wrote:
I dont think TvZ is imbalanced. The 3 bases push of korean terrans is stupidly strong, yes, but its a matter of time before zergs figure it out.
Just look at Scarlett who lost only 3-2 to Bomber. If jaedong got destroyed 4-0 by Polt & Bomber, its mostly because ... he is terrible at ZvT.
This push has a huge weakness : there is no 4th OC. There cant be one.
So, zergs playing with mass muta are having a good winrate against terran. No hive, just mass mutalisks. Because mass muta can beat small groups of marines (15-20 marines) easily and cost-effectively, and they can kill OC very fast, they are the best answer to the never-ending push of the 3CC 4M build.
Jaedong lost against this build because he tried to go to hive while building a huge amount of mutalisks. But you cant.. It's not like WoL, Hive is not the answer anymore, mass muta then hive is way better. Scarlett didn't win those games anymore than Bomber throwing them away. 1 game Bomber completely gave up on harassing or doing timings. another Bomber had a huge lead after that hellion run bys and failing in his follow up pushes quite horribly. And the no 4th OC is wrong, I clearly remember Ryung vs Nestea game, Ryung had a 4th. Or just go back to Scarlett vs Bomber, bomber had a 4th OC morphing at 19 mins or game 3, bomber build a 4th in base or game number 4, bomber build 2 CCs at the same time while getting 15 marines at one cycle. game 5? also a 4th
Runby with hellions and killing 15 drones is actually not what you say. Its no huge advantage. Its a good economical kill, but barely an advantage. You give up your complete map control and map vision that is already hard to maintain and easy to lose, creepspread especially against Scarlett is important to keep in place which he couldn't. Also killing economy only matters if you can follow it up with a push which he couldn't for at least a couple of minutes that are enough to give the Zerg time needed to be back into place.
So wrong read on your part. Thats one reason Terrans stopped doing it btw.
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On August 28 2013 20:32 NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2013 20:28 ETisME wrote:On August 28 2013 16:18 Insoleet wrote:
I dont think TvZ is imbalanced. The 3 bases push of korean terrans is stupidly strong, yes, but its a matter of time before zergs figure it out.
Just look at Scarlett who lost only 3-2 to Bomber. If jaedong got destroyed 4-0 by Polt & Bomber, its mostly because ... he is terrible at ZvT.
This push has a huge weakness : there is no 4th OC. There cant be one.
So, zergs playing with mass muta are having a good winrate against terran. No hive, just mass mutalisks. Because mass muta can beat small groups of marines (15-20 marines) easily and cost-effectively, and they can kill OC very fast, they are the best answer to the never-ending push of the 3CC 4M build.
Jaedong lost against this build because he tried to go to hive while building a huge amount of mutalisks. But you cant.. It's not like WoL, Hive is not the answer anymore, mass muta then hive is way better. Scarlett didn't win those games anymore than Bomber throwing them away. 1 game Bomber completely gave up on harassing or doing timings. another Bomber had a huge lead after that hellion run bys and failing in his follow up pushes quite horribly. And the no 4th OC is wrong, I clearly remember Ryung vs Nestea game, Ryung had a 4th. Or just go back to Scarlett vs Bomber, bomber had a 4th OC morphing at 19 mins or game 3, bomber build a 4th in base or game number 4, bomber build 2 CCs at the same time while getting 15 marines at one cycle. game 5? also a 4th Runby with hellions and killing 15 drones is actually not what you say. Its no huge advantage. Its a good economical kill, but barely an advantage. You give up your complete map control and map vision that is already hard to maintain and easy to lose, creepspread especially against Scarlett is important to keep in place which he couldn't. Also killing economy only matters if you can follow it up with a push which he couldn't for at least a couple of minutes that are enough to give the Zerg time needed to be back into place. So wrong read on your part. Thats one reason Terrans stopped doing it btw.
arguable.
I would say bomber follow up push at 11min with the 1/1 CS medivac just didn't do enough damage, especially the double drops he did in scarlett main base, losing tonnes of marines without actually doing much
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I played a TvZ where the Zerg just crushed my 12 minute push with banelings, then he rushed straight into mass ultra. The next engagement we were both maxed, and his ultras just killed my MMMM army in around 5secs, and I had lost twice as much army value as him, and he just strolled into my bases and won the game. Ultra are just the most ridiculously cost efficient unit in the game.
Zerg says MMMM with perfect splitting and flawless macro is easy to play? I say turtling as Zerg then making mass ultra and A moving is easier, and much harder to stop than MMMM.
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On August 28 2013 19:51 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2013 16:18 Insoleet wrote:
I dont think TvZ is imbalanced. The 3 bases push of korean terrans is stupidly strong, yes, but its a matter of time before zergs figure it out.
Just look at Scarlett who lost only 3-2 to Bomber. If jaedong got destroyed 4-0 by Polt & Bomber, its mostly because ... he is terrible at ZvT.
This push has a huge weakness : there is no 4th OC. There cant be one.
So, zergs playing with mass muta are having a good winrate against terran. No hive, just mass mutalisks. Because mass muta can beat small groups of marines (15-20 marines) easily and cost-effectively, and they can kill OC very fast, they are the best answer to the never-ending push of the 3CC 4M build. Thank you.
Saying that JD is terrible in ZvT is just crazy, he is still one of the best in this match up, probably behind Soulkey and Life.
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On August 28 2013 22:36 Vanadiel wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2013 19:51 TheDwf wrote:On August 28 2013 16:18 Insoleet wrote:
I dont think TvZ is imbalanced. The 3 bases push of korean terrans is stupidly strong, yes, but its a matter of time before zergs figure it out.
Just look at Scarlett who lost only 3-2 to Bomber. If jaedong got destroyed 4-0 by Polt & Bomber, its mostly because ... he is terrible at ZvT.
This push has a huge weakness : there is no 4th OC. There cant be one.
So, zergs playing with mass muta are having a good winrate against terran. No hive, just mass mutalisks. Because mass muta can beat small groups of marines (15-20 marines) easily and cost-effectively, and they can kill OC very fast, they are the best answer to the never-ending push of the 3CC 4M build. Thank you. Saying that JD is terrible in ZvT is just crazy, he is still one of the best in this match up, probably behind Soulkey and Life.
Also i would like ad that zerg would win every match if we could just get mass mutts or mass ultras. The problem is that mass muta demands a lot of resources and superb micro to keep your mutas alive while figthing the terran. <Saying that just get lots of this units is useless.
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After the Terran Dominance, the Zerg Dominance, now the Terran again, look at that graphic::
http://postimg.org/image/bmgmiqef7/
source: http://aligulac.com/reports/
Considering the last 2 global WCS
Innovation vs Sos > 4-0 and Bomber vs Jaedong > 4-0
that confirms the trend:
-
Simple suggestions for a little more balance:
Marine = -5 HP
Zealot = +10 Shield
Let the basic units have the same "HP" of Brood War Units, that could balance more the actual status of the game.
This is my opinion.
Byez
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On August 28 2013 19:03 aZealot wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2013 18:47 saddaromma wrote:On August 28 2013 18:43 aZealot wrote:On August 28 2013 18:33 saddaromma wrote:On August 28 2013 18:13 aZealot wrote:
It never works? WOL was full of pros figuring out stuff (e.g. Protoss players figuring out the Stephano style Roach max) and the same in HOTS. The only thing is that given the packed tournament schedule, it actually works against players finding out solutions to problems and also experimenting with new strategies and styles (there is no time for "play" or for just "empty" time where ideas at the bottom of your brain bubble up to the surface when you are doing something else). As there is so much reason to win, there is a strong incentive to stick with successful builds or even just recycle old successful builds. Full of pros figuring out? and you provide a less known strategy with short success history in EU/NA. Grats, you proved me very wrong. Don't you think pros, who train at least 10 hours a day for 6 months, couldn't have found better solution if it already existed? In fact 4M got even stronger the more pros learn how to utilize it. Nope, just pointing out your hyperbole. "Never" is a strong word to use. You were obviously wrong. As to the pros, that remains to be seen. I didn't know there was an expected timer on finding solutions. Is 4M imbalanced? Maybe. Is it badly imbalanced? I don't know. If Zergs need to suffer for another 3 - 6 months to make sure that Blizzard need to do more than give a slight overseer speed buff, so be it is my view. Doing nothing is in principle the right thing to do. So you think leaving broodlord/infestors as it is until the Hots was wise thing to do. Do you even imagine how many terrans retired and lost prize money? It's ironic you bring that up because, arguably, the dominance of BL/Infestor was an unintended consequence of two Zerg buffs (OL speed buff and Queen buff). But, yeah. Looking back, leaving WOL alone (if that was the intention of the balance team - they may have decided to leave it with HOTS on the horizon) with mass BL/Infestor was the right thing to do. I'd rather Blizzard follow what, to me, are good principles (patch rarely and carefully) and get it wrong occasionally rather than follow the wrong principles (patch often and quickly) and get it wrong most of the time. And, hey, I am a Protoss player. I know the pain of BL/Infestor. But, even then, towards the end of WOL you saw Protoss players refining solutions to the problem. And not just MS and Archon toilet (especially once Zerg players learned to split their BL and/or spammed IT to stop Archons getting into the toilet) but use of Templar and Carrier play, WP harass, Zealot runbys, DT backstabs etc which abused the immobility of BL/Infestor. Sure, on some maps (e.g. Daybreak) you'd lose once Zerg got to their "I win" composition. But, the fact was that Protoss players were developing their play against that dominant composition. I don't know if they would have been successful, as HOTS interfered, but it was interesting to see the process.
You would still bet against the non-zerg the majority of the time. It was bad and should have been patched out way earlier. The fact we ever got a leenock HerO game was a testament to cowardice by the balance team. The composition was too easy and too powerful for too long Most attempts to try new styles against it were completely futile only the immortal sentry all in by partInG really had a good level of success. HerO"s prisms were meh since you still had to flip a coin on that doom ball.
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On August 28 2013 23:55 GodZo wrote:After the Terran Dominance, the Zerg Dominance, now the Terran again, look at that graphic:: http://postimg.org/image/bmgmiqef7/source: http://aligulac.com/reports/Considering the last 2 global WCS Innovation vs Sos > 4-0 and Bomber vs Jaedong > 4-0 that confirms the trend: - Simple suggestions for a little more balance: Marine = -5 HP Zealot = +10 Shield Let the basic units have the same "HP" of Brood War Units, that could balance more the actual status of the game. This is my opinion. Byez
Lol you seriously think Zealot needs buffing against Terran. Tell you what, the chargelots are singlehandedly the most OP unit in TvP right now.
And the Mothership Core reminds me of the infamous Queen patch in WoL since it fufills the same role, allowing protoss to make almost no units early game and just tech like crazy. HoTS templar and storm timings are typically 2-3 minutes quicker now than they were in WoL.
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On August 28 2013 21:32 Lock0n wrote:
I played a TvZ where the Zerg just crushed my 12 minute push with banelings, then he rushed straight into mass ultra. The next engagement we were both maxed, and his ultras just killed my MMMM army in around 5secs, and I had lost twice as much army value as him, and he just strolled into my bases and won the game. Ultra are just the most ridiculously cost efficient unit in the game.
Zerg says MMMM with perfect splitting and flawless macro is easy to play? I say turtling as Zerg then making mass ultra and A moving is easier, and much harder to stop than MMMM.
T macro is the easiest by far. Though the micro vs Z can be difficult. I would love it if you could post the replay though, so we don't only get your side of the story.
On August 28 2013 23:55 GodZo wrote:After the Terran Dominance, the Zerg Dominance, now the Terran again, look at that graphic:: http://postimg.org/image/bmgmiqef7/source: http://aligulac.com/reports/Considering the last 2 global WCS Innovation vs Sos > 4-0 and Bomber vs Jaedong > 4-0 that confirms the trend: - Simple suggestions for a little more balance: Marine = -5 HP Zealot = +10 Shield Let the basic units have the same "HP" of Brood War Units, that could balance more the actual status of the game. This is my opinion. Byez
Dear lord no. Zealots are already really strong.
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Lots of people are talking about how Starcraft II's popularity is declining. It's reached the point that the joke known as "LoL" or "DotA" or whatever you want to call it; basically a very toxic and vile gaming genre; has emerged to the forefront lately, and managed to outshine Starcraft II(a purely "skill-based" game) as an e-sport.
I think Blizzard is reaping what they've sown.
They are having a very difficult time balancing Starcraft II because as David Kim mentions, they are going with the slightest changes, because they're afraid of overbalancing.
This is ironically a result of the fundamental design of HotS, and the lack of innovation of Starcraft II over the original Starcraft.
They are trying too hard to balance a game by tightly controlling every engagement outcome, and having maps that are more like rigid pathways than broad battlefields. They were not willing to take any risks whatsoever to make Starcraft II different from the first and possibly sustain its longevity.
I believe they need to balance out the numbers so things don't die so quickly. They have made too many powerful units with powerful abilities (e.g. stimmed marines/marauders being healed by medivacs, brood lords, banelings) so the game eventually becomes too predictable yet fragile, too intense and stressful for the competitor, yet boring to watch for the audience.
There is no real balance in Starcraft II. The see-saw constantly overbalances this way and that, based on tiny hair-trigger control and crucial decision-making by highly focused competitors. It is a marvel to watch and it is the reason they get paid so much to win tournaments.
While this is what made Starcraft II so entertaining, they have botched it badly with the release of HoTS.
The root of this problem started in Warcraft III and on to WoW and you can see the same design philosophy afflicts Starcraft and makes it a severe headache and insurmountable challenge for the designers to balance this game, because they've made units & spells too powerful. They've made the maps too small and based on specific pathways and timing designs, instead of allowing far broader battlefields and creative engagements, which is what we had in games like Red Alert and Age of Empires.
God forbid something happens in an RTS that the designers didn't envision, premeditate, and decide with their omnipotent wisdom on how they might make it "balanced". Again, this is just bleeding WoW.
The creativity of the early gamers is what created the RTS in the first place. The original Starcraft was a happy accident in so many ways, and it created a fanatical Korean following for a rather simple, primitive, game design which was created freely with innovative, risk-taking spirit instead of RIGID, TIGHTLY-CONTROLLED balance & design direction. The sheer scope of World of Warcraft's clientele required TIGHT CONTROLS by Blizzard to ensure that every single IF-THEN strategic encounter is accounted for, and this design philosophy has carried onto Starcraft II.
I see a ton of micromanagement and sheer contrivance at every level of not just this but everything Blizzard puts out nowadays.
They've taken the concept of risk, which was what catapulted Blizzard to success in the first place, and through the tightly-held reins of Activision management, be it Kotick or Bowder or whoever you want to blame, they've started to design games in a way that forbids risk-taking and favors a guaranteed cushion of profit, whether it's there to please shareholders or feed the family of a Blizzard forum mod. This is prevalent all over the gaming industry.
WoL was a stellar achievement, and was very well-balanced in the end and a pleasure to watch. But now, they've had to introduce new units. They've actually removed some of the new units like Warhounds, etc., they took away Thors and put them back in but no one uses them, and this horribly exposes Blizzard. Hype up an expansion with new units, only to remove them? Completely bail out on the single-player campaign and turn it into some broken, easy cakewalk? When have we ever seen this before?
The plummeting intelligence level behind game design between WoL and HoTS it is shocking.
We need to focus not on the decisions ActiBlizzard makes, but on the people behind these products we consume. We need to judge their integrity and their competence. And we need to determine if its worth our time to continue consuming their products, even when we aren't satisfied -- because at that point we are only what they call "Blizzard fanbois".
I don't play much but I am, or was, an avid fan of watching Starcraft II streams & tournaments. The limitations on creativity and hearing the game announcers talk about every strategy and move as if its all some fragile, pre-meditated malady of a poker game makes Starcraft II no fun to watch anymore.
(I am no expert in game design and I do not play this game competitively. This is from a hardcore stream-watching consumer's point of view)
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
At post above: you tried too hard when you said WoL was balanced in the end of it.
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SC2 popularity isnt declining, it has just peaked while others are still climbing. Right now the game is absurdly close to balanced as well.
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On August 29 2013 10:11 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2013 21:32 Lock0n wrote:
I played a TvZ where the Zerg just crushed my 12 minute push with banelings, then he rushed straight into mass ultra. The next engagement we were both maxed, and his ultras just killed my MMMM army in around 5secs, and I had lost twice as much army value as him, and he just strolled into my bases and won the game. Ultra are just the most ridiculously cost efficient unit in the game.
Zerg says MMMM with perfect splitting and flawless macro is easy to play? I say turtling as Zerg then making mass ultra and A moving is easier, and much harder to stop than MMMM.
T macro is the easiest by far. Though the micro vs Z can be difficult. I would love it if you could post the replay though, so we don't only get your side of the story.
Why do you think that Terran macro is so much easier? Sure you have the MULE to get a big chunk of minerals, but that is made up by having to build a large amount of production building AND addons. Getting the right timing for that and the correct distribution off Reactors and Tech labs isnt that trivial as people think it is. Once that is done the game becomes easier for the Terran since his options to change up the stuff he produces are extremely limited. So yeah, once the macro is set up its really easy, but getting there isnt trivial ... and thats why I am saying that Zerg need to attack the production facilities over any resource gathering bases.
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United Kingdom20313 Posts
T macro is the easiest by far
As a protoss main, hitting 90% inject uptime and creep spreading across entire map is aparantly a ton easier than basic terran macro. It's entirely subjective.
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On August 29 2013 13:27 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2013 10:11 TheRabidDeer wrote:On August 28 2013 21:32 Lock0n wrote:
I played a TvZ where the Zerg just crushed my 12 minute push with banelings, then he rushed straight into mass ultra. The next engagement we were both maxed, and his ultras just killed my MMMM army in around 5secs, and I had lost twice as much army value as him, and he just strolled into my bases and won the game. Ultra are just the most ridiculously cost efficient unit in the game.
Zerg says MMMM with perfect splitting and flawless macro is easy to play? I say turtling as Zerg then making mass ultra and A moving is easier, and much harder to stop than MMMM.
T macro is the easiest by far. Though the micro vs Z can be difficult. I would love it if you could post the replay though, so we don't only get your side of the story. Why do you think that Terran macro is so much easier? Sure you have the MULE to get a big chunk of minerals, but that is made up by having to build a large amount of production building AND addons. Getting the right timing for that and the correct distribution off Reactors and Tech labs isnt that trivial as people think it is. Once that is done the game becomes easier for the Terran since his options to change up the stuff he produces are extremely limited. So yeah, once the macro is set up its really easy, but getting there isnt trivial ... and thats why I am saying that Zerg need to attack the production facilities over any resource gathering bases.
Because it really isnt difficult to get that going. I know T macro is easy because I played a little bit of T a while back and I kept my resources low basically always with minimal queuing. T is the only race that lets you queue units and slack a little in your main buildings macro ability. You dont have to be 100% exact with your mules, you dont have to start units right as your old units finish (you can start many of them before the old ones finish).
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On August 29 2013 13:44 Cyro wrote:As a protoss main, hitting 90% inject uptime and creep spreading across entire map is aparantly a ton easier than basic terran macro. It's entirely subjective.
I would be interested in seeing a replay of you on this map
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=426276
or better yet, a replay of you playing as zerg with 90% inject uptime (90% is perfect afaik) while spreading creep. And if you also have a replay of terran thatd be awesome too. I mean T macro is the equivalent of inject by itself but you dont have to be perfect with it and you dont have to move your screen to use it (and you dont have to creep spread).
EDIT: I mean, from what I can gather... T macro only takes ~50 actions in a minute while perfect Z macro requires around 150ish
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I was kinda pumped to watch Flash's stream, but I nearly vomited watching those copypaste TvZs with only MMM vs Muta/bane. Anyone feel the same? I'm really sad about current sc2.
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On August 29 2013 13:44 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2013 13:27 Rabiator wrote:On August 29 2013 10:11 TheRabidDeer wrote:On August 28 2013 21:32 Lock0n wrote:
I played a TvZ where the Zerg just crushed my 12 minute push with banelings, then he rushed straight into mass ultra. The next engagement we were both maxed, and his ultras just killed my MMMM army in around 5secs, and I had lost twice as much army value as him, and he just strolled into my bases and won the game. Ultra are just the most ridiculously cost efficient unit in the game.
Zerg says MMMM with perfect splitting and flawless macro is easy to play? I say turtling as Zerg then making mass ultra and A moving is easier, and much harder to stop than MMMM.
T macro is the easiest by far. Though the micro vs Z can be difficult. I would love it if you could post the replay though, so we don't only get your side of the story. Why do you think that Terran macro is so much easier? Sure you have the MULE to get a big chunk of minerals, but that is made up by having to build a large amount of production building AND addons. Getting the right timing for that and the correct distribution off Reactors and Tech labs isnt that trivial as people think it is. Once that is done the game becomes easier for the Terran since his options to change up the stuff he produces are extremely limited. So yeah, once the macro is set up its really easy, but getting there isnt trivial ... and thats why I am saying that Zerg need to attack the production facilities over any resource gathering bases. Because it really isnt difficult to get that going. I know T macro is easy because I played a little bit of T a while back and I kept my resources low basically always with minimal queuing. T is the only race that lets you queue units and slack a little in your main buildings macro ability. You dont have to be 100% exact with your mules, you dont have to start units right as your old units finish (you can start many of them before the old ones finish).
You dont have any other option to "getting more units" than queueing ... well you could build more Barracks, but if you already know you cant support them on a regular basis that is pointless. Zerg and Protoss both have "burst production" which they can save/stockpile until their supply drops below 200 and Terran doesnt ... so building an excess of production slots makes sense for Zerg and Protoss but not really for Terrans. There is a "natural maximum" of income you have from SCVs plus a fluctuating burst income from MULEs, but the production is steady at a constant speed. Personally I would say the stockpiled production is a big advantage for the other two races, because they can use it relatively easily.
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On August 29 2013 14:24 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2013 13:44 TheRabidDeer wrote:On August 29 2013 13:27 Rabiator wrote:On August 29 2013 10:11 TheRabidDeer wrote:On August 28 2013 21:32 Lock0n wrote:
I played a TvZ where the Zerg just crushed my 12 minute push with banelings, then he rushed straight into mass ultra. The next engagement we were both maxed, and his ultras just killed my MMMM army in around 5secs, and I had lost twice as much army value as him, and he just strolled into my bases and won the game. Ultra are just the most ridiculously cost efficient unit in the game.
Zerg says MMMM with perfect splitting and flawless macro is easy to play? I say turtling as Zerg then making mass ultra and A moving is easier, and much harder to stop than MMMM.
T macro is the easiest by far. Though the micro vs Z can be difficult. I would love it if you could post the replay though, so we don't only get your side of the story. Why do you think that Terran macro is so much easier? Sure you have the MULE to get a big chunk of minerals, but that is made up by having to build a large amount of production building AND addons. Getting the right timing for that and the correct distribution off Reactors and Tech labs isnt that trivial as people think it is. Once that is done the game becomes easier for the Terran since his options to change up the stuff he produces are extremely limited. So yeah, once the macro is set up its really easy, but getting there isnt trivial ... and thats why I am saying that Zerg need to attack the production facilities over any resource gathering bases. Because it really isnt difficult to get that going. I know T macro is easy because I played a little bit of T a while back and I kept my resources low basically always with minimal queuing. T is the only race that lets you queue units and slack a little in your main buildings macro ability. You dont have to be 100% exact with your mules, you dont have to start units right as your old units finish (you can start many of them before the old ones finish). You dont have any other option to "getting more units" than queueing ... well you could build more Barracks, but if you already know you cant support them on a regular basis that is pointless. Zerg and Protoss both have "burst production" which they can save/stockpile until their supply drops below 200 and Terran doesnt ... so building an excess of production slots makes sense for Zerg and Protoss but not really for Terrans. There is a "natural maximum" of income you have from SCVs plus a fluctuating burst income from MULEs, but the production is steady at a constant speed. Personally I would say the stockpiled production is a big advantage for the other two races, because they can use it relatively easily.
Yes, you can build more barracks. And more OC's. And more static defense like planetaries. And sacrifice all of your SCV's so that you have a 40 army supply lead at 200. The races are different. Also, MULEs are not burst income if you continue to call them down at 50 energy. They are 100% consistent if you keep on top of mules.
50 energy takes ~89 seconds to get, MULE lasts 90 seconds. It is only "burst" because usually terrans arent 100% on top of mules (for various reasons, either to save for scans or waiting for a base or other reasons)
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On August 29 2013 04:44 Lock0n wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2013 23:55 GodZo wrote:After the Terran Dominance, the Zerg Dominance, now the Terran again, look at that graphic:: http://postimg.org/image/bmgmiqef7/source: http://aligulac.com/reports/Considering the last 2 global WCS Innovation vs Sos > 4-0 and Bomber vs Jaedong > 4-0 that confirms the trend: - Simple suggestions for a little more balance: Marine = -5 HP Zealot = +10 Shield Let the basic units have the same "HP" of Brood War Units, that could balance more the actual status of the game. This is my opinion. Byez Lol you seriously think Zealot needs buffing against Terran. Tell you what, the chargelots are singlehandedly the most OP unit in TvP right now. And the Mothership Core reminds me of the infamous Queen patch in WoL since it fufills the same role, allowing protoss to make almost no units early game and just tech like crazy. HoTS templar and storm timings are typically 2-3 minutes quicker now than they were in WoL.
How on Earth is this anything like the Queen patch... Terran is still winning plenty with the MSC. Defending turbovac drops without an MSC would be borderline impossible.
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EPT
