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On April 10 2013 15:24 plogamer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 14:40 DARKHYDRA wrote:
But saying Terran is implies that it is vastly more micro intensive than the other two races. When the only examples that terran players point out is splitting units vs aoe and stutter step that's silly because all 3 races do that. That was my point.
I also did not say zerg was the micro race lol. TLDR: Generally speaking, Terran mistakes with micro are less forgiving than Zerg or Protoss mistakes.
Have you tried stepping 1 inch too close to a mine with 50 lings?
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On April 10 2013 22:50 baba1 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 15:24 plogamer wrote:On April 10 2013 14:40 DARKHYDRA wrote:
But saying Terran is implies that it is vastly more micro intensive than the other two races. When the only examples that terran players point out is splitting units vs aoe and stutter step that's silly because all 3 races do that. That was my point.
I also did not say zerg was the micro race lol. TLDR: Generally speaking, Terran mistakes with micro are less forgiving than Zerg or Protoss mistakes. Have you tried stepping 1 inch too close to a mine with 50 lings?
Worst case you lose 250 minerals worth of lings?
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On April 10 2013 22:59 DMKraft wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 22:50 baba1 wrote:On April 10 2013 15:24 plogamer wrote:On April 10 2013 14:40 DARKHYDRA wrote:
But saying Terran is implies that it is vastly more micro intensive than the other two races. When the only examples that terran players point out is splitting units vs aoe and stutter step that's silly because all 3 races do that. That was my point.
I also did not say zerg was the micro race lol. TLDR: Generally speaking, Terran mistakes with micro are less forgiving than Zerg or Protoss mistakes. Have you tried stepping 1 inch too close to a mine with 50 lings? Worst case you lose 250 minerals worth of lings?
That's close to best case scenario, worst case is losing 500-1k worth of gas in banelings
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On April 10 2013 22:59 DMKraft wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 22:50 baba1 wrote:On April 10 2013 15:24 plogamer wrote:On April 10 2013 14:40 DARKHYDRA wrote:
But saying Terran is implies that it is vastly more micro intensive than the other two races. When the only examples that terran players point out is splitting units vs aoe and stutter step that's silly because all 3 races do that. That was my point.
I also did not say zerg was the micro race lol. TLDR: Generally speaking, Terran mistakes with micro are less forgiving than Zerg or Protoss mistakes. Have you tried stepping 1 inch too close to a mine with 50 lings? Worst case you lose 250 minerals worth of lings?
And lose all your buffer and proceed to get run over with bio killing your important units and expansions and potentially getting in your main and supply lines > GG.
Oh wait you're thinking a mine hit on 50 stacked lings will only kill ten of them? Widow mines have a huge splash radius and can kill up to 25-30 stacked zerglings or banelings if you're lucky or target to get the most effective splash.
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On April 10 2013 22:59 DMKraft wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 22:50 baba1 wrote:On April 10 2013 15:24 plogamer wrote:On April 10 2013 14:40 DARKHYDRA wrote:
But saying Terran is implies that it is vastly more micro intensive than the other two races. When the only examples that terran players point out is splitting units vs aoe and stutter step that's silly because all 3 races do that. That was my point.
I also did not say zerg was the micro race lol. TLDR: Generally speaking, Terran mistakes with micro are less forgiving than Zerg or Protoss mistakes. Have you tried stepping 1 inch too close to a mine with 50 lings? Worst case you lose 250 minerals worth of lings?
On April 10 2013 23:13 Protosnake wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 22:59 DMKraft wrote:On April 10 2013 22:50 baba1 wrote:On April 10 2013 15:24 plogamer wrote:On April 10 2013 14:40 DARKHYDRA wrote:
But saying Terran is implies that it is vastly more micro intensive than the other two races. When the only examples that terran players point out is splitting units vs aoe and stutter step that's silly because all 3 races do that. That was my point.
I also did not say zerg was the micro race lol. TLDR: Generally speaking, Terran mistakes with micro are less forgiving than Zerg or Protoss mistakes. Have you tried stepping 1 inch too close to a mine with 50 lings? Worst case you lose 250 minerals worth of lings? That's close to best case scenario, worst case is losing 500-1k worth of gas in banelings
It's generally the worst case actually, considering outside of low level play most players will move a few single units forward which hard-counters mines.
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On April 10 2013 23:18 DemigodcelpH wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 22:59 DMKraft wrote:On April 10 2013 22:50 baba1 wrote:On April 10 2013 15:24 plogamer wrote:On April 10 2013 14:40 DARKHYDRA wrote:
But saying Terran is implies that it is vastly more micro intensive than the other two races. When the only examples that terran players point out is splitting units vs aoe and stutter step that's silly because all 3 races do that. That was my point.
I also did not say zerg was the micro race lol. TLDR: Generally speaking, Terran mistakes with micro are less forgiving than Zerg or Protoss mistakes. Have you tried stepping 1 inch too close to a mine with 50 lings? Worst case you lose 250 minerals worth of lings? Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 23:13 Protosnake wrote:On April 10 2013 22:59 DMKraft wrote:On April 10 2013 22:50 baba1 wrote:On April 10 2013 15:24 plogamer wrote:On April 10 2013 14:40 DARKHYDRA wrote:
But saying Terran is implies that it is vastly more micro intensive than the other two races. When the only examples that terran players point out is splitting units vs aoe and stutter step that's silly because all 3 races do that. That was my point.
I also did not say zerg was the micro race lol. TLDR: Generally speaking, Terran mistakes with micro are less forgiving than Zerg or Protoss mistakes. Have you tried stepping 1 inch too close to a mine with 50 lings? Worst case you lose 250 minerals worth of lings? That's close to best case scenario, worst case is losing 500-1k worth of gas in banelings It's generally the worst case actually, considering outside of low level play most players will move a few single units forward which hard-counters mines.
We are talking about how forgiving mistakes are, everyone know that the way to deal with mines is to bait the shot as much as you can, but no one does it perfectly
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-Hydras are a 80 hp 2 supply unit. It boggles my mind how a masters anyone would complain about them being too strong when they're pretty universally identified as too weak and a buff would make ZvZ a lot better as well as help address Skytoss. And Protoss..you know Storms absolutely wreck hydras right?
-Oracles seem a little too meaningless to me. As a Zerg player they're very easy to shut down with a single spore + queen. Also I can't say I want to see other races getting more viable harass options for the early game when Zerg has none. (except lings in ZvZ)
-WM debates are hilarious because they're blatantly overpowered, will get nerfed, and 6 months after we'll all look back and laugh about how overpowered they were.
-This thread has degenerated pretty far and I'd be surprised if DK or any Blizzard people actually paid attention.
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Diamond zerg here. While i think the balance isn't perfect, i do think that usually, the better player wins. Even though i win less in hots, i feel that i made obvious mistakes that lead to my downfall, not because my opponent plays a better race. that said, i feel that i haven't been able to find an answer to lategame skytoss and feel that blizzard may need to look at that. granted that i'm sure most strategies haven't figured out yet, and their may be an answer that zerg players just haven't thought of. also, like the poster above me, i feel that oracles are kind of useless. it feels very gimmicky like DTS. once your opponent scouts the stargate, they won't do much
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On April 10 2013 16:33 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 16:14 Rabiator wrote:On April 10 2013 16:06 DARKHYDRA wrote:On April 10 2013 15:24 plogamer wrote:On April 10 2013 14:40 DARKHYDRA wrote:
But saying Terran is implies that it is vastly more micro intensive than the other two races. When the only examples that terran players point out is splitting units vs aoe and stutter step that's silly because all 3 races do that. That was my point.
I also did not say zerg was the micro race lol. My God, we have a genius here. Single handedly debunked all false heresy that Terran is the harder race to play. Or maybe... Terrans are punished more severely when they fail to micro properly. Everypony, including the pro-players, make micro mistakes from time to time. When the Terran player makes a micro mistake, it is a much bigger deal than if Zergs or Protoss players make a mistake. Zergs have immense mobility and map-control. They are less likely to get unaware and make micro mistakes. They can pull back immediately without having to commit. Protoss units are big, bulky, except zealots - which are extremely tanky. So the damage of mistake in micro'ing against aoe is automatically reduced by default. With mothership core, protoss can also pull back immedialy without having to commit. Terrans have drops that force out mistakes. But for the main army (unless they're doom-dropped via medivac) there is no real way of quickly retreating in a bad engagement. Is your main army engaged? Then here is your mobility - Seige tanks, immobile. Widow mines, immobile. TLDR: Generally speaking, Terran mistakes with micro are less forgiving than Zerg or Protoss mistakes. And with this piece of excellent terran bias I rest my case. ggwp. It is only "stupid bias" if you prove that he is wrong. Since you dont bother disputing his claims your post is the biased one. The burden of proof is not on him, but on the guy who makes the claims.
Kinda obvious IMO ...
- sieging and unsieging tanks give Terrans a HUGE window of vulnerability
- clicking STIM at the wrong time can screw you a few seconds later
- mass bio is powerful, but both other races have a crowd control ability to "manage the battlefield", but Terrans dont have that ... which is a clear disadvantage
- Siege Tanks deal friendly fire ... are there any Protoss or Zerg units which do the same (apart from Psi Storm, which is a controlled spell and not an automatic unit reaction)?
The gist of it is that only Terran units have disadvantages like an hp cost for an ability or a long "immobile and unable to shoot" time. This means that there are many more ways to screw up as a Terran and the Baneling is a powerful anti-Marine unit where you HAVE TO MICRO your units perfectly or lose a big chunk of your army more or less instantly.
tl;dr
Terrans live more dangerous lives than either Zerg or Protoss ...
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The balance seems pretty good so far. Certain strategies come across as harder to deal with than others, but instead of complaining about it I will look for ways to overcome it instead. We don't want another WoL where like half the builds are removed from the game do we? The game will become boring to watch if that happens again :\
An example, in t v t i've been having trouble with double reactor hellbat/medivac opener. The problem I'm facing is I usually don't identify it in time so I don't have enough marauders to defend both mineral lines. I find defending with turrets and marines more or less useless vs this build, as they can just boost past them or fly in from a different angle.
I'm also struggling greatly with oracle and stalker allins t v p. This is a build I'm not even sure where to start figuring out.
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On April 10 2013 23:53 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 16:33 Big J wrote:On April 10 2013 16:14 Rabiator wrote:On April 10 2013 16:06 DARKHYDRA wrote:On April 10 2013 15:24 plogamer wrote:On April 10 2013 14:40 DARKHYDRA wrote:
But saying Terran is implies that it is vastly more micro intensive than the other two races. When the only examples that terran players point out is splitting units vs aoe and stutter step that's silly because all 3 races do that. That was my point.
I also did not say zerg was the micro race lol. My God, we have a genius here. Single handedly debunked all false heresy that Terran is the harder race to play. Or maybe... Terrans are punished more severely when they fail to micro properly. Everypony, including the pro-players, make micro mistakes from time to time. When the Terran player makes a micro mistake, it is a much bigger deal than if Zergs or Protoss players make a mistake. Zergs have immense mobility and map-control. They are less likely to get unaware and make micro mistakes. They can pull back immediately without having to commit. Protoss units are big, bulky, except zealots - which are extremely tanky. So the damage of mistake in micro'ing against aoe is automatically reduced by default. With mothership core, protoss can also pull back immedialy without having to commit. Terrans have drops that force out mistakes. But for the main army (unless they're doom-dropped via medivac) there is no real way of quickly retreating in a bad engagement. Is your main army engaged? Then here is your mobility - Seige tanks, immobile. Widow mines, immobile. TLDR: Generally speaking, Terran mistakes with micro are less forgiving than Zerg or Protoss mistakes. And with this piece of excellent terran bias I rest my case. ggwp. It is only "stupid bias" if you prove that he is wrong. Since you dont bother disputing his claims your post is the biased one. The burden of proof is not on him, but on the guy who makes the claims. Kinda obvious IMO ... - sieging and unsieging tanks give Terrans a HUGE window of vulnerability - clicking STIM at the wrong time can screw you a few seconds later - mass bio is powerful, but both other races have a crowd control ability to "manage the battlefield", but Terrans dont have that ... which is a clear disadvantage - Siege Tanks deal friendly fire ... are there any Protoss or Zerg units which do the same (apart from Psi Storm, which is a controlled spell and not an automatic unit reaction)? The gist of it is that only Terran units have disadvantages like an hp cost for an ability or a long "immobile and unable to shoot" time. This means that there are many more ways to screw up as a Terran and the Baneling is a powerful anti-Marine unit where you HAVE TO MICRO your units perfectly or lose a big chunk of your army more or less instantly. tl;dr Terrans live more dangerous lives than either Zerg or Protoss ...
Many protoss have lost games for missing a single forcefield tho. And it has to be done in less than a second, so pros have actually botched that several times too, not just silver guys xd
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On April 10 2013 23:53 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 16:33 Big J wrote:On April 10 2013 16:14 Rabiator wrote:On April 10 2013 16:06 DARKHYDRA wrote:On April 10 2013 15:24 plogamer wrote:On April 10 2013 14:40 DARKHYDRA wrote:
But saying Terran is implies that it is vastly more micro intensive than the other two races. When the only examples that terran players point out is splitting units vs aoe and stutter step that's silly because all 3 races do that. That was my point.
I also did not say zerg was the micro race lol. My God, we have a genius here. Single handedly debunked all false heresy that Terran is the harder race to play. Or maybe... Terrans are punished more severely when they fail to micro properly. Everypony, including the pro-players, make micro mistakes from time to time. When the Terran player makes a micro mistake, it is a much bigger deal than if Zergs or Protoss players make a mistake. Zergs have immense mobility and map-control. They are less likely to get unaware and make micro mistakes. They can pull back immediately without having to commit. Protoss units are big, bulky, except zealots - which are extremely tanky. So the damage of mistake in micro'ing against aoe is automatically reduced by default. With mothership core, protoss can also pull back immedialy without having to commit. Terrans have drops that force out mistakes. But for the main army (unless they're doom-dropped via medivac) there is no real way of quickly retreating in a bad engagement. Is your main army engaged? Then here is your mobility - Seige tanks, immobile. Widow mines, immobile. TLDR: Generally speaking, Terran mistakes with micro are less forgiving than Zerg or Protoss mistakes. And with this piece of excellent terran bias I rest my case. ggwp. It is only "stupid bias" if you prove that he is wrong. Since you dont bother disputing his claims your post is the biased one. The burden of proof is not on him, but on the guy who makes the claims. Kinda obvious IMO ... - sieging and unsieging tanks give Terrans a HUGE window of vulnerability - clicking STIM at the wrong time can screw you a few seconds later - mass bio is powerful, but both other races have a crowd control ability to "manage the battlefield", but Terrans dont have that ... which is a clear disadvantage - Siege Tanks deal friendly fire ... are there any Protoss or Zerg units which do the same (apart from Psi Storm, which is a controlled spell and not an automatic unit reaction)? The gist of it is that only Terran units have disadvantages like an hp cost for an ability or a long "immobile and unable to shoot" time. This means that there are many more ways to screw up as a Terran and the Baneling is a powerful anti-Marine unit where you HAVE TO MICRO your units perfectly or lose a big chunk of your army more or less instantly. tl;dr Terrans live more dangerous lives than either Zerg or Protoss ...
You're just pointing out how terran get punished for their mistakes, not why it is more punishing than others races, I could also point stuff like the fact one widow mine can blow up 40 banelings or that swarm host are vulnerable while unburrowed, doesnt make my race live more dangerously than any other
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On April 11 2013 00:04 Protosnake wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 23:53 Rabiator wrote:On April 10 2013 16:33 Big J wrote:On April 10 2013 16:14 Rabiator wrote:On April 10 2013 16:06 DARKHYDRA wrote:On April 10 2013 15:24 plogamer wrote:On April 10 2013 14:40 DARKHYDRA wrote:
But saying Terran is implies that it is vastly more micro intensive than the other two races. When the only examples that terran players point out is splitting units vs aoe and stutter step that's silly because all 3 races do that. That was my point.
I also did not say zerg was the micro race lol. My God, we have a genius here. Single handedly debunked all false heresy that Terran is the harder race to play. Or maybe... Terrans are punished more severely when they fail to micro properly. Everypony, including the pro-players, make micro mistakes from time to time. When the Terran player makes a micro mistake, it is a much bigger deal than if Zergs or Protoss players make a mistake. Zergs have immense mobility and map-control. They are less likely to get unaware and make micro mistakes. They can pull back immediately without having to commit. Protoss units are big, bulky, except zealots - which are extremely tanky. So the damage of mistake in micro'ing against aoe is automatically reduced by default. With mothership core, protoss can also pull back immedialy without having to commit. Terrans have drops that force out mistakes. But for the main army (unless they're doom-dropped via medivac) there is no real way of quickly retreating in a bad engagement. Is your main army engaged? Then here is your mobility - Seige tanks, immobile. Widow mines, immobile. TLDR: Generally speaking, Terran mistakes with micro are less forgiving than Zerg or Protoss mistakes. And with this piece of excellent terran bias I rest my case. ggwp. It is only "stupid bias" if you prove that he is wrong. Since you dont bother disputing his claims your post is the biased one. The burden of proof is not on him, but on the guy who makes the claims. Kinda obvious IMO ... - sieging and unsieging tanks give Terrans a HUGE window of vulnerability - clicking STIM at the wrong time can screw you a few seconds later - mass bio is powerful, but both other races have a crowd control ability to "manage the battlefield", but Terrans dont have that ... which is a clear disadvantage - Siege Tanks deal friendly fire ... are there any Protoss or Zerg units which do the same (apart from Psi Storm, which is a controlled spell and not an automatic unit reaction)? The gist of it is that only Terran units have disadvantages like an hp cost for an ability or a long "immobile and unable to shoot" time. This means that there are many more ways to screw up as a Terran and the Baneling is a powerful anti-Marine unit where you HAVE TO MICRO your units perfectly or lose a big chunk of your army more or less instantly. tl;dr Terrans live more dangerous lives than either Zerg or Protoss ... You're just pointing out how terran get punished for their mistakes, not why it is more punishing than others races, I could also point stuff like the fact one widow mine can blow up 40 banelings or that swarm host are vulnerable while unburrowed, doesnt make my race live more dangerously than any other
And let me add this to your argument - as Terran you dont have to stop microing army to produce units, unlike toss(warp-ins) or zerg(injects). In that one second, when you are watching away, hell lot of things may happen.
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On April 10 2013 23:20 Protosnake wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 23:18 DemigodcelpH wrote:On April 10 2013 22:59 DMKraft wrote:On April 10 2013 22:50 baba1 wrote:On April 10 2013 15:24 plogamer wrote:On April 10 2013 14:40 DARKHYDRA wrote:
But saying Terran is implies that it is vastly more micro intensive than the other two races. When the only examples that terran players point out is splitting units vs aoe and stutter step that's silly because all 3 races do that. That was my point.
I also did not say zerg was the micro race lol. TLDR: Generally speaking, Terran mistakes with micro are less forgiving than Zerg or Protoss mistakes. Have you tried stepping 1 inch too close to a mine with 50 lings? Worst case you lose 250 minerals worth of lings? On April 10 2013 23:13 Protosnake wrote:On April 10 2013 22:59 DMKraft wrote:On April 10 2013 22:50 baba1 wrote:On April 10 2013 15:24 plogamer wrote:On April 10 2013 14:40 DARKHYDRA wrote:
But saying Terran is implies that it is vastly more micro intensive than the other two races. When the only examples that terran players point out is splitting units vs aoe and stutter step that's silly because all 3 races do that. That was my point.
I also did not say zerg was the micro race lol. TLDR: Generally speaking, Terran mistakes with micro are less forgiving than Zerg or Protoss mistakes. Have you tried stepping 1 inch too close to a mine with 50 lings? Worst case you lose 250 minerals worth of lings? That's close to best case scenario, worst case is losing 500-1k worth of gas in banelings It's generally the worst case actually, considering outside of low level play most players will move a few single units forward which hard-counters mines. We are talking about how forgiving mistakes are, everyone know that the way to deal with mines is to bait the shot as much as you can, but no one does it perfectly
In mid-late game if the terran player has a decent bio army to protect his mines from zerglings and mutalisks your only option is to throw infested terrans in there—which is a really good strategy mid-game but won't do much in the late-game if the terran player is near max.
Late-game I think the best strategy is to fungal the bio on top of as many mines as possible and charge in with ultralisks in front to tank the damage for banelings which can then roll in and annihilate the bio. Best case scenario the zerg player can also afford vipers to disarm the ensnared bio with blinding cloud.
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On April 11 2013 00:11 Giriath wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 23:20 Protosnake wrote:On April 10 2013 23:18 DemigodcelpH wrote:On April 10 2013 22:59 DMKraft wrote:On April 10 2013 22:50 baba1 wrote:On April 10 2013 15:24 plogamer wrote:On April 10 2013 14:40 DARKHYDRA wrote:
But saying Terran is implies that it is vastly more micro intensive than the other two races. When the only examples that terran players point out is splitting units vs aoe and stutter step that's silly because all 3 races do that. That was my point.
I also did not say zerg was the micro race lol. TLDR: Generally speaking, Terran mistakes with micro are less forgiving than Zerg or Protoss mistakes. Have you tried stepping 1 inch too close to a mine with 50 lings? Worst case you lose 250 minerals worth of lings? On April 10 2013 23:13 Protosnake wrote:On April 10 2013 22:59 DMKraft wrote:On April 10 2013 22:50 baba1 wrote:On April 10 2013 15:24 plogamer wrote:On April 10 2013 14:40 DARKHYDRA wrote:
But saying Terran is implies that it is vastly more micro intensive than the other two races. When the only examples that terran players point out is splitting units vs aoe and stutter step that's silly because all 3 races do that. That was my point.
I also did not say zerg was the micro race lol. TLDR: Generally speaking, Terran mistakes with micro are less forgiving than Zerg or Protoss mistakes. Have you tried stepping 1 inch too close to a mine with 50 lings? Worst case you lose 250 minerals worth of lings? That's close to best case scenario, worst case is losing 500-1k worth of gas in banelings It's generally the worst case actually, considering outside of low level play most players will move a few single units forward which hard-counters mines. We are talking about how forgiving mistakes are, everyone know that the way to deal with mines is to bait the shot as much as you can, but no one does it perfectly In mid-late game if the terran player has a decent bio army to protect his mines from zerglings and mutalisks your only option is to throw infested terrans in there—which is a really good strategy mid-game but won't do much in the late-game if the terran player is near max. Late-game I think the best strategy is to fungal the bio on top of as many mines as possible and charge in with ultralisks in front to tank the damage for banelings which can then roll in and annihilate the bio. Best case scenario the zerg player can also afford vipers to disarm the ensnared bio with blinding cloud.
One good way might be to make blinding cloud affect Widow Mine, it will be as strong as it is right know in early to mid game, enough for terran to actually gain advantage if played well, but something that you would eventually have to transition from. About the Late game I agree with you, however I think you should add some Queen in it, like 5-10 just to kill fungaled medivac and Heal ultralisk while they take shot from the widow mine.
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On April 10 2013 23:18 DemigodcelpH wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 22:59 DMKraft wrote:On April 10 2013 22:50 baba1 wrote:On April 10 2013 15:24 plogamer wrote:On April 10 2013 14:40 DARKHYDRA wrote:
But saying Terran is implies that it is vastly more micro intensive than the other two races. When the only examples that terran players point out is splitting units vs aoe and stutter step that's silly because all 3 races do that. That was my point.
I also did not say zerg was the micro race lol. TLDR: Generally speaking, Terran mistakes with micro are less forgiving than Zerg or Protoss mistakes. Have you tried stepping 1 inch too close to a mine with 50 lings? Worst case you lose 250 minerals worth of lings? Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 23:13 Protosnake wrote:On April 10 2013 22:59 DMKraft wrote:On April 10 2013 22:50 baba1 wrote:On April 10 2013 15:24 plogamer wrote:On April 10 2013 14:40 DARKHYDRA wrote:
But saying Terran is implies that it is vastly more micro intensive than the other two races. When the only examples that terran players point out is splitting units vs aoe and stutter step that's silly because all 3 races do that. That was my point.
I also did not say zerg was the micro race lol. TLDR: Generally speaking, Terran mistakes with micro are less forgiving than Zerg or Protoss mistakes. Have you tried stepping 1 inch too close to a mine with 50 lings? Worst case you lose 250 minerals worth of lings? That's close to best case scenario, worst case is losing 500-1k worth of gas in banelings It's generally the worst case actually, considering outside of low level play most players will move a few single units forward which hard-counters mines.
Yeah in a perfect world we all send 1 zergling to triggers the mines and then send in the rest of the army + seers to kill it but in a real game when there is 15+ mines burrowed randomly on the map, lucky mine shots will happen even to the best players. And it happens almost every single game where mines are involved.
Also can we stop comparing banelings and WM please?
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On April 10 2013 13:04 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 08:00 Meff wrote:On April 10 2013 07:17 Bagi wrote:
Marines vs banes[...]You don't need to remind terran players about imbalanced micro requirements. Well, you do use tanks to reduce the amount of micro needed in this scenario. I don't think that there's a readily available equivalent answer for widow mines. Killing 3 Banelings with one tank shot isnt really worth it and investing in tons of tanks makes you more vulnerable to runbys, so its a lose-lose position for the Terran. You do realize that Siege Tanks deal friendly fire splash damage and thus hurt the Terran himself probably just as much as they do the enemy? You do realize that even though the Siege Tank has a splash radius of "1.25 matrices" but that they only deal full damage in the very small center or 0.4687 matrices? You do realize that the Baneling splash radius is 2.2 (no "unit" given in the Liquipedia) and thus possibly larger than the one of the tank?
Sorry, I'm not interested in theorycrafting whether marine/tank is good against ling/bane.
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On April 11 2013 04:48 Emzeeshady wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 14:04 ZenithM wrote:On April 10 2013 09:37 DARKHYDRA wrote:This is exactly the line of thinking that I find funny. On April 10 2013 07:50 Bagi wrote:On April 10 2013 07:31 DARKHYDRA wrote:
I just like how some terran players pretend that marine splitting is the holy grail of micro lol. There are plenty of micro challenges in all races like zvz baneling battles or blink micro. Well, it's apparently difficult enough to create a huge divide between the KR and foreigner terrans. The situationsuations you describe are more specific to certain tactics or early game situations, whereas marine control is something that's crucial in every match-up and every part of the game (sinceontinues to suck) and truly separates the good terrans from the bad ones. I have no qualms in saying that yes, it is the "holy grail of micro" what comes to SC2. I just want to point out that you were also talking about a very specific scenario of splitting marines vs banelings. But anyway, here you make the claim that unit control, aside from specific scenarios, tactics or timings, is not as micro intensive for other units as it is for marine control. That's just terran bias, there are many cases where marines are the easier units to control in engagements. Its a completely laughable position to take. As much as you would like it, no, Zerg is not the micro race, sorry... Edit: Though I would like to play some Zerg micro challenges. Probably something called "Catch more than 1 unit with a WoL fungal", or "Brood Lord stutter step madness". Is this what you actually think Zerg micro is? I suggest you play Zerg yourself before you make anymore statements in this thread because you kind of come off as a douche...
He doesn't make a bad point. Random player here so I don't have a bias towards a certain race...outside of ling/bane zerg has very little micro. Now I do understand that with some play styles you'll be using both all game, but even then the micro required is minimal compared to bio micro unless it's ZvZ ling/bane vs ling/bane micro(which imo is the hardest micro in the game hands down, but that's just one MU, one scenario).
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EPT
