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On November 06 2011 05:02 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 15:31 tomatriedes wrote:On November 05 2011 15:01 blinkingangels wrote:On November 05 2011 13:26 Jacobs Ladder wrote:On November 05 2011 13:00 blinkingangels wrote:On October 18 2011 07:22 ypslala wrote:
what about ghosts with moebius reator? protoss could crush ur army and terran just trains 6-8 ghosts and emp the shit out of toss.... not too imba ???
dont tell me now ghosts take 30 secs train or something, warpgates have a cooldown as well.
or warping in close to the battle. this is how toss works. therefor terran has its own race advantages like flying buildings, mules, bunkers and repair.
Except EMP can't kill anything. Storm an army 5 times, and it dies. Emp an army five times, and you still have an army. Protoss cannot lose in that situation like terran could. I'm so tired of this argument. Both sides of it are stupid. They aren't the same thing and therefore direct comparisons are pointless. Storm does avoidable damage over time, EMP does unavoidable instant damage but can't kill. They. Aren't. The. Same. People need to instead look at their interactions with the army as a whole rather than "Storm does X emp does Y, IMBA!!". Balance does not occur in a spherical vacuum, you have to try to account for everything. Well this only further supports my point, so thanks. We were also looking at a specific scenario in the game where army composition doesn't play as large a role. I just find it ignorant to compare Storm to EMP in a game losing scenario when army composition doesn't matter. The fact that storm can actually kill units in that situation makes a huge difference between the two, which is why late game KA with HT warp ins were overpowered, but EMP isn't. If you look at actual results terran has been stomping protoss at the highest level of the game since ghost usage has become common whereas even when KA was being used win rates were about 50%. Even Blizzard is starting to realize that EMP is OP now hence the patch. Terran were only winning by allining. Slowly but surely toss started learning to defeat terran allins and then they began dominating terrans. Look at the results from the time around GSTL 1. Toss was considered unbeatable late game.
This is the race that didn't use blue flame hellions and emp for nearly half a year. Not exactly undeserving of a little struggling for a change. There is a myth that terrans can't hold in the late game. With the KA nerf, it is pretty clear now that Terran is strongest early and late game. None of the toss pro's feel comfortable in the late game where blanket emps and the right number of vikings just gut you that's why we see so many attempts to end games earlier or more aggression from the race.
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On November 06 2011 06:29 blinkingangels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2011 05:57 BoomNasty wrote:
I am tired of how good terran is... It is ridiculous how good marines are. Comments like these always perplex me. Blizzard's own ladder statistics show the game is pretty well balanced, with some minor issues at the highest levels of play, which are most likely due to frequent changes in strategies and shifts in the meta-game. Implying Terran is better than every other race because of marines is silly. If there's an imbalance at this point, it's not going to be something as large as a single unit that's causing all of it.
To be fair, every Terran in Diamond and Master struggles with Protoss. I don't know about GM though, but the one base all-ins, busts and deathball techswitches are crazy and it is fact that a Terran needs about 50 APM more to even compete. So these kind of comments are a point of view from the person's current ladder experience. It is a real pain for a Protoss player to learn how survive the inital bio timing (which happens in Gold/Platinum).
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To be fair, every Terran in Diamond and Master struggles with Protoss. I don't know about GM though, but the one base all-ins, busts and deathball techswitches are crazy and it is fact that a Terran needs about 50 APM more to even compete.
This is not true. Terran's can struggle with toss but not every single one of them struggle. I know a lot, and face a lot which just stomp me with a 1/1/1. Im not saying you need to 1/1/1 to win vs toss. I lose to other strats too, its just how comfortable you are. Terran doesn't need more apm to 'even" compete. What your really saying is that most terrans dont understand the MU aswell as others, but the MU isn't favoured so far that terran needs to be so superior in skill than the toss to win.
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United States7483 Posts
On November 06 2011 04:55 blinkingangels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 16:10 Whitewing wrote:On November 05 2011 15:01 blinkingangels wrote:On November 05 2011 13:26 Jacobs Ladder wrote:On November 05 2011 13:00 blinkingangels wrote:On October 18 2011 07:22 ypslala wrote:
what about ghosts with moebius reator? protoss could crush ur army and terran just trains 6-8 ghosts and emp the shit out of toss.... not too imba ???
dont tell me now ghosts take 30 secs train or something, warpgates have a cooldown as well.
or warping in close to the battle. this is how toss works. therefor terran has its own race advantages like flying buildings, mules, bunkers and repair.
Except EMP can't kill anything. Storm an army 5 times, and it dies. Emp an army five times, and you still have an army. Protoss cannot lose in that situation like terran could. I'm so tired of this argument. Both sides of it are stupid. They aren't the same thing and therefore direct comparisons are pointless. Storm does avoidable damage over time, EMP does unavoidable instant damage but can't kill. They. Aren't. The. Same. People need to instead look at their interactions with the army as a whole rather than "Storm does X emp does Y, IMBA!!". Balance does not occur in a spherical vacuum, you have to try to account for everything. Well this only further supports my point, so thanks. We were also looking at a specific scenario in the game where army composition doesn't play as large a role. I just find it ignorant to compare Storm to EMP in a game losing scenario when army composition doesn't matter. The fact that storm can actually kill units in that situation makes a huge difference between the two, which is why late game KA with HT warp ins were overpowered, but EMP isn't. That actually has nothing to do with it, and while I'm not going to make an argument that KA storms were or were not overpowered, your logical argument is full of holes here. Firstly, terran army dps comes from mineral expenditure. That is, your main dps units (marines and marauders) are very mineral heavy, and gas light. That means your gas units are your support units (ghosts, vikings). Therefore, your gas units don't need to be able to kill, because your mineral units already do an amazing job of scoring kills. It's the opposite with the protoss: the main kill scoring units of the protoss army are the gas heavy units, the high templar, the colossi, immortals, etc. The support units are the mineral units (zealots to tank damage and force kiting). High templar are extremely gas heavy: that means that if your HT's don't score kills, you straight up lose, because you've chosen to make them your kill scoring units. If you make a bunch of HT's, you can't afford colossi, or other really important core units like sentries. If you make a bunch of HT's and they don't do tremendous damage, you straight up lose. This "Storm kills, EMP doesn't, therefore EMP not imba" argument makes no sense. Somehow you still have seemed to miss the point that it was overpowered only in a specific scenario. It had nothing to do with army composition and unit roles, but with the fact that HT warp-ins with KA gave protoss way too much to fall back on in a game losing scenario. Of course HTs and Colossi should be able to do that kind of damage in a full up engagement, but I'm not arguing that. If terran lost all of his army, then has the luck to have 3 ghosts and a handful of marauders come out as soon protoss reaches his base, EMP isn't going to do anything except soften up the protoss army. If the opposite was true and protoss lost his entire army, he could still kill a majority of terran's army with 3 well placed storms. Even if it didn't outright kill the army, it was generally enough to push it back and re-stabilize. How you don't see the difference between that and EMP is astounding. To be clear though, it had nothing to do with unit roles in relation to army compositions of the two races.
Yes, the fact that storms in that scenario could defend protoss bases as long as toss had gas income was strong (maybe too strong, I'm not going to argue either way), but it has nothing to do with the fact that EMP doesn't kill. The two spells have completely different roles, so trying to say "Warp in storms imba in comparison to EMP because storm kills, EMP doesn't" is ridiculous. The two spells have entirely different purposes.
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On November 06 2011 09:09 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2011 04:55 blinkingangels wrote:On November 05 2011 16:10 Whitewing wrote:On November 05 2011 15:01 blinkingangels wrote:On November 05 2011 13:26 Jacobs Ladder wrote:On November 05 2011 13:00 blinkingangels wrote:On October 18 2011 07:22 ypslala wrote:
what about ghosts with moebius reator? protoss could crush ur army and terran just trains 6-8 ghosts and emp the shit out of toss.... not too imba ???
dont tell me now ghosts take 30 secs train or something, warpgates have a cooldown as well.
or warping in close to the battle. this is how toss works. therefor terran has its own race advantages like flying buildings, mules, bunkers and repair.
Except EMP can't kill anything. Storm an army 5 times, and it dies. Emp an army five times, and you still have an army. Protoss cannot lose in that situation like terran could. I'm so tired of this argument. Both sides of it are stupid. They aren't the same thing and therefore direct comparisons are pointless. Storm does avoidable damage over time, EMP does unavoidable instant damage but can't kill. They. Aren't. The. Same. People need to instead look at their interactions with the army as a whole rather than "Storm does X emp does Y, IMBA!!". Balance does not occur in a spherical vacuum, you have to try to account for everything. Well this only further supports my point, so thanks. We were also looking at a specific scenario in the game where army composition doesn't play as large a role. I just find it ignorant to compare Storm to EMP in a game losing scenario when army composition doesn't matter. The fact that storm can actually kill units in that situation makes a huge difference between the two, which is why late game KA with HT warp ins were overpowered, but EMP isn't. That actually has nothing to do with it, and while I'm not going to make an argument that KA storms were or were not overpowered, your logical argument is full of holes here. Firstly, terran army dps comes from mineral expenditure. That is, your main dps units (marines and marauders) are very mineral heavy, and gas light. That means your gas units are your support units (ghosts, vikings). Therefore, your gas units don't need to be able to kill, because your mineral units already do an amazing job of scoring kills. It's the opposite with the protoss: the main kill scoring units of the protoss army are the gas heavy units, the high templar, the colossi, immortals, etc. The support units are the mineral units (zealots to tank damage and force kiting). High templar are extremely gas heavy: that means that if your HT's don't score kills, you straight up lose, because you've chosen to make them your kill scoring units. If you make a bunch of HT's, you can't afford colossi, or other really important core units like sentries. If you make a bunch of HT's and they don't do tremendous damage, you straight up lose. This "Storm kills, EMP doesn't, therefore EMP not imba" argument makes no sense. Somehow you still have seemed to miss the point that it was overpowered only in a specific scenario. It had nothing to do with army composition and unit roles, but with the fact that HT warp-ins with KA gave protoss way too much to fall back on in a game losing scenario. Of course HTs and Colossi should be able to do that kind of damage in a full up engagement, but I'm not arguing that. If terran lost all of his army, then has the luck to have 3 ghosts and a handful of marauders come out as soon protoss reaches his base, EMP isn't going to do anything except soften up the protoss army. If the opposite was true and protoss lost his entire army, he could still kill a majority of terran's army with 3 well placed storms. Even if it didn't outright kill the army, it was generally enough to push it back and re-stabilize. How you don't see the difference between that and EMP is astounding. To be clear though, it had nothing to do with unit roles in relation to army compositions of the two races. Yes, the fact that storms in that scenario could defend protoss bases as long as toss had gas income was strong (maybe too strong, I'm not going to argue either way), but it has nothing to do with the fact that EMP doesn't kill. The two spells have completely different roles, so trying to say "Warp in storms imba in comparison to EMP because storm kills, EMP doesn't" is ridiculous. The two spells have entirely different purposes.
Couldn't agree more. I was merely addressing that ypsala guy who made the comparison a couple pages back.
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On November 06 2011 08:15 corvaleur wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2011 06:29 blinkingangels wrote:On November 06 2011 05:57 BoomNasty wrote:
I am tired of how good terran is... It is ridiculous how good marines are. Comments like these always perplex me. Blizzard's own ladder statistics show the game is pretty well balanced, with some minor issues at the highest levels of play, which are most likely due to frequent changes in strategies and shifts in the meta-game. Implying Terran is better than every other race because of marines is silly. If there's an imbalance at this point, it's not going to be something as large as a single unit that's causing all of it. To be fair, every Terran in Diamond and Master struggles with Protoss. I don't know about GM though, but the one base all-ins, busts and deathball techswitches are crazy and it is fact that a Terran needs about 50 APM more to even compete. So these kind of comments are a point of view from the person's current ladder experience. It is a real pain for a Protoss player to learn how survive the inital bio timing (which happens in Gold/Platinum).
I agree. In mid-diamond terran always seemed impossible. Even doing the most stable builds, i would watch replays of my protoss opponents using like 50-60 apm (pre-patch) to do one-base busts, two-base busts, rediculous build one collosus and then only get high-templar tech switches and steam rolling me while i'm trying to macro/drop etc.
Then i switched to protoss.... void ray all-in win rate? 100% after like 10 games. lol.
At this relatively average skill level... it wasn't really fun playing terran. the only viable builds were variants of mmm or 1-1-1. so borrrringg.... as protoss, I have like 5 different legit tech paths. much more fun, plus the units are way more badass
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On November 06 2011 08:15 corvaleur wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2011 06:29 blinkingangels wrote:On November 06 2011 05:57 BoomNasty wrote:
I am tired of how good terran is... It is ridiculous how good marines are. Comments like these always perplex me. Blizzard's own ladder statistics show the game is pretty well balanced, with some minor issues at the highest levels of play, which are most likely due to frequent changes in strategies and shifts in the meta-game. Implying Terran is better than every other race because of marines is silly. If there's an imbalance at this point, it's not going to be something as large as a single unit that's causing all of it. To be fair, every Terran in Diamond and Master struggles with Protoss. I don't know about GM though, but the one base all-ins, busts and deathball techswitches are crazy and it is fact that a Terran needs about 50 APM more to even compete. So these kind of comments are a point of view from the person's current ladder experience. It is a real pain for a Protoss player to learn how survive the inital bio timing (which happens in Gold/Platinum).
I don't understand this sweeping generalization of yours that all Diamond and Master Terrans struggle against Protoss. Are ghosts only unlocked at the GM level or something? You don't need nearly as good micro to use ghosts as you do high templar, and there's no reason why Terrans shouldn't be throwing a few in the mid-to-late game just to really roll over Protoss with ease.
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I don't don't doubt that A lot of Terrans struggle in masters against protoss, but it's not a balance issue it's the ridiculous nature of Terran promoting players far above their skill level. It's until mid to high masters that most terrans can actually macro, whereas most zerg and protoss players need to be able to macro in order to to get into high diamond. When Terrans learn to macro at the level of competency that is an absolute requirement for protoss and zergs at master level they're nigh unstoppable, which is why you get situations like in the GSL.
I don't understand this sweeping generalization of yours that all Diamond and Master Terrans struggle against Protoss. Are ghosts only unlocked at the GM level or something? You don't need nearly as good micro to use ghosts as you do high templar, and there's no reason why Terrans shouldn't be throwing a few in the mid-to-late game just to really roll over Protoss with ease.
If you recall Terrans were bitching incessantly for months about Infestor Broodlord, the whole time Protoss and Zerg players straight up telling them that Ghosts were the correct counter. It took them fucking forever to start making ghost switches in the mid to late game. It wasn't some ridiculous cognitive leap to realise that Ghosts were the answer either. The reason for it is that Terran has been so successful that their metagame is completely stagnant, and why would you change it up when what you're doing already works? Hell just look at ZvT they've been doing pretty much nothing but marine tank medivac since GSL open 2. The two only real metagame shifts in 12 months have been utilizing hellions in the early game and tech switching to ghosts in the late game.
If you want a good chuckle and you're at high diamond or up, start checking the replays of your matches against terrans and check out their resources throughout the game.
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I do really wish Zerg and protoss have some good all-in against Terrans.
I've always been annoyed how cheese/free Terrans are. Just want to return the favor, is all.
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On November 06 2011 13:35 LXR wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2011 08:15 corvaleur wrote:On November 06 2011 06:29 blinkingangels wrote:On November 06 2011 05:57 BoomNasty wrote:
I am tired of how good terran is... It is ridiculous how good marines are. Comments like these always perplex me. Blizzard's own ladder statistics show the game is pretty well balanced, with some minor issues at the highest levels of play, which are most likely due to frequent changes in strategies and shifts in the meta-game. Implying Terran is better than every other race because of marines is silly. If there's an imbalance at this point, it's not going to be something as large as a single unit that's causing all of it. To be fair, every Terran in Diamond and Master struggles with Protoss. I don't know about GM though, but the one base all-ins, busts and deathball techswitches are crazy and it is fact that a Terran needs about 50 APM more to even compete. So these kind of comments are a point of view from the person's current ladder experience. It is a real pain for a Protoss player to learn how survive the inital bio timing (which happens in Gold/Platinum). I agree. In mid-diamond terran always seemed impossible. Even doing the most stable builds, i would watch replays of my protoss opponents using like 50-60 apm (pre-patch) to do one-base busts, two-base busts, rediculous build one collosus and then only get high-templar tech switches and steam rolling me while i'm trying to macro/drop etc. Then i switched to protoss.... void ray all-in win rate? 100% after like 10 games. lol. At this relatively average skill level... it wasn't really fun playing terran. the only viable builds were variants of mmm or 1-1-1. so borrrringg.... as protoss, I have like 5 different legit tech paths. much more fun, plus the units are way more badass
I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not.
Rofl @ 5 legit tech paths.
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On November 06 2011 13:35 LXR wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2011 08:15 corvaleur wrote:On November 06 2011 06:29 blinkingangels wrote:On November 06 2011 05:57 BoomNasty wrote:
I am tired of how good terran is... It is ridiculous how good marines are. Comments like these always perplex me. Blizzard's own ladder statistics show the game is pretty well balanced, with some minor issues at the highest levels of play, which are most likely due to frequent changes in strategies and shifts in the meta-game. Implying Terran is better than every other race because of marines is silly. If there's an imbalance at this point, it's not going to be something as large as a single unit that's causing all of it. To be fair, every Terran in Diamond and Master struggles with Protoss. I don't know about GM though, but the one base all-ins, busts and deathball techswitches are crazy and it is fact that a Terran needs about 50 APM more to even compete. So these kind of comments are a point of view from the person's current ladder experience. It is a real pain for a Protoss player to learn how survive the inital bio timing (which happens in Gold/Platinum). I agree. In mid-diamond terran always seemed impossible. Even doing the most stable builds, i would watch replays of my protoss opponents using like 50-60 apm (pre-patch) to do one-base busts, two-base busts, rediculous build one collosus and then only get high-templar tech switches and steam rolling me while i'm trying to macro/drop etc. Then i switched to protoss.... void ray all-in win rate? 100% after like 10 games. lol. At this relatively average skill level... it wasn't really fun playing terran. the only viable builds were variants of mmm or 1-1-1. so borrrringg.... as protoss, I have like 5 different legit tech paths. much more fun, plus the units are way more badass
I think protoss is easier for me personally to play, but the reason I don't want to switch is because they don't have 5 different legit tech paths at all. I don't want to make death balls every game, hence I'm not playing Protoss.
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On November 06 2011 13:35 LXR wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2011 08:15 corvaleur wrote:On November 06 2011 06:29 blinkingangels wrote:On November 06 2011 05:57 BoomNasty wrote:
I am tired of how good terran is... It is ridiculous how good marines are. Comments like these always perplex me. Blizzard's own ladder statistics show the game is pretty well balanced, with some minor issues at the highest levels of play, which are most likely due to frequent changes in strategies and shifts in the meta-game. Implying Terran is better than every other race because of marines is silly. If there's an imbalance at this point, it's not going to be something as large as a single unit that's causing all of it. To be fair, every Terran in Diamond and Master struggles with Protoss. I don't know about GM though, but the one base all-ins, busts and deathball techswitches are crazy and it is fact that a Terran needs about 50 APM more to even compete. So these kind of comments are a point of view from the person's current ladder experience. It is a real pain for a Protoss player to learn how survive the inital bio timing (which happens in Gold/Platinum). I agree. In mid-diamond terran always seemed impossible. Even doing the most stable builds, i would watch replays of my protoss opponents using like 50-60 apm (pre-patch) to do one-base busts, two-base busts, rediculous build one collosus and then only get high-templar tech switches and steam rolling me while i'm trying to macro/drop etc. Then i switched to protoss.... void ray all-in win rate? 100% after like 10 games. lol. At this relatively average skill level... it wasn't really fun playing terran. the only viable builds were variants of mmm or 1-1-1. so borrrringg.... as protoss, I have like 5 different legit tech paths. much more fun, plus the units are way more badass
You are mid diamond Terran losing to one base Colossi/Templar.... and you actually dare to blame Protoss for that. GJ man!
5 different legit tech paths.
Like... Gateway -> air
Gateway -> Colossi -> Templar
Gatway ->??????????????????
Gateway->Templar->Loss
Gateway->Gateway->Loss
is that about right?
Also if you just switch races and manage to pull a 10-0 something was incredibly wrong with your strategies before.
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On November 08 2011 22:35 rEalGuapo wrote:
Gateway->Templar->Loss
Gateway->Gateway->Loss
I love playing against that particular transition!
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On November 06 2011 08:48 FluXen wrote:Show nested quote +To be fair, every Terran in Diamond and Master struggles with Protoss. I don't know about GM though, but the one base all-ins, busts and deathball techswitches are crazy and it is fact that a Terran needs about 50 APM more to even compete. This is not true. Terran's can struggle with toss but not every single one of them struggle. I know a lot, and face a lot which just stomp me with a 1/1/1. Im not saying you need to 1/1/1 to win vs toss. I lose to other strats too, its just how comfortable you are. Terran doesn't need more apm to 'even" compete. What your really saying is that most terrans dont understand the MU aswell as others, but the MU isn't favoured so far that terran needs to be so superior in skill than the toss to win.
1/1/1... seriously? I thought it's already time for toss players to learn how to defend against this shit. When was the last time u've seen it in a pro match, gsl etc?
pro tip: build zealots, and then after you kill all ground bring stalkers to kill banshees. GG
an to all protoss players: just build zealots. You have observers so you can see where terran army is at any given time. Just choose right place to engage where you can't be kited back to base and gz, you've won. If you just build stalkers, no wonder that emp destroys you
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On November 06 2011 14:06 Ziggitz wrote:I don't don't doubt that A lot of Terrans struggle in masters against protoss, but it's not a balance issue it's the ridiculous nature of Terran promoting players far above their skill level. It's until mid to high masters that most terrans can actually macro, whereas most zerg and protoss players need to be able to macro in order to to get into high diamond. When Terrans learn to macro at the level of competency that is an absolute requirement for protoss and zergs at master level they're nigh unstoppable, which is why you get situations like in the GSL. Show nested quote +I don't understand this sweeping generalization of yours that all Diamond and Master Terrans struggle against Protoss. Are ghosts only unlocked at the GM level or something? You don't need nearly as good micro to use ghosts as you do high templar, and there's no reason why Terrans shouldn't be throwing a few in the mid-to-late game just to really roll over Protoss with ease. If you recall Terrans were bitching incessantly for months about Infestor Broodlord, the whole time Protoss and Zerg players straight up telling them that Ghosts were the correct counter. It took them fucking forever to start making ghost switches in the mid to late game. It wasn't some ridiculous cognitive leap to realise that Ghosts were the answer either. The reason for it is that Terran has been so successful that their metagame is completely stagnant, and why would you change it up when what you're doing already works? Hell just look at ZvT they've been doing pretty much nothing but marine tank medivac since GSL open 2. The two only real metagame shifts in 12 months have been utilizing hellions in the early game and tech switching to ghosts in the late game. If you want a good chuckle and you're at high diamond or up, start checking the replays of your matches against terrans and check out their resources throughout the game.
Oh.. an old school Zerg.. Terrans win because of imba, other races win because they are better players.. damn.. that's so 2010. Plenty of Zergs spewing this crap when they lose on the ladder and still not a single one has accepted my challenge of a rematch with reversed races.
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On November 06 2011 06:29 blinkingangels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2011 05:57 BoomNasty wrote:
I am tired of how good terran is... It is ridiculous how good marines are. Comments like these always perplex me. Blizzard's own ladder statistics show the game is pretty well balanced, with some minor issues at the highest levels of play, which are most likely due to frequent changes in strategies and shifts in the meta-game. Implying Terran is better than every other race because of marines is silly. If there's an imbalance at this point, it's not going to be something as large as a single unit that's causing all of it.
you can't rely too much on those statistic. Blizzard said it themselves, the ladder tries to match you up with equally skilled players, so you would expect more or less 50% w/l ratio.
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On November 08 2011 22:52 Thrombozyt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2011 14:06 Ziggitz wrote:I don't don't doubt that A lot of Terrans struggle in masters against protoss, but it's not a balance issue it's the ridiculous nature of Terran promoting players far above their skill level. It's until mid to high masters that most terrans can actually macro, whereas most zerg and protoss players need to be able to macro in order to to get into high diamond. When Terrans learn to macro at the level of competency that is an absolute requirement for protoss and zergs at master level they're nigh unstoppable, which is why you get situations like in the GSL. I don't understand this sweeping generalization of yours that all Diamond and Master Terrans struggle against Protoss. Are ghosts only unlocked at the GM level or something? You don't need nearly as good micro to use ghosts as you do high templar, and there's no reason why Terrans shouldn't be throwing a few in the mid-to-late game just to really roll over Protoss with ease. If you recall Terrans were bitching incessantly for months about Infestor Broodlord, the whole time Protoss and Zerg players straight up telling them that Ghosts were the correct counter. It took them fucking forever to start making ghost switches in the mid to late game. It wasn't some ridiculous cognitive leap to realise that Ghosts were the answer either. The reason for it is that Terran has been so successful that their metagame is completely stagnant, and why would you change it up when what you're doing already works? Hell just look at ZvT they've been doing pretty much nothing but marine tank medivac since GSL open 2. The two only real metagame shifts in 12 months have been utilizing hellions in the early game and tech switching to ghosts in the late game. If you want a good chuckle and you're at high diamond or up, start checking the replays of your matches against terrans and check out their resources throughout the game. Oh.. an old school Zerg.. Terrans win because of imba, other races win because they are better players.. damn.. that's so 2010. Plenty of Zergs spewing this crap when they lose on the ladder and still not a single one has accepted my challenge of a rematch with reversed races.
You shouldn't be doing this to zerg players dude. Imagine if one of them actually accepts it and get owned? He would have to admit you're just better then him. How could he keep living like this? All he has left is the endless whining that you won because T is OP. Don't take it away from him. xD
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On November 08 2011 23:04 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2011 06:29 blinkingangels wrote:On November 06 2011 05:57 BoomNasty wrote:
I am tired of how good terran is... It is ridiculous how good marines are. Comments like these always perplex me. Blizzard's own ladder statistics show the game is pretty well balanced, with some minor issues at the highest levels of play, which are most likely due to frequent changes in strategies and shifts in the meta-game. Implying Terran is better than every other race because of marines is silly. If there's an imbalance at this point, it's not going to be something as large as a single unit that's causing all of it. you can't rely too much on those statistic. Blizzard said it themselves, the ladder tries to match you up with equally skilled players, so you would expect more or less 50% w/l ratio.
You really have no clue about statistics, do you? If you really think this, then you shouldn't be discussing balancing through stats because you have other things to learn first.
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On November 09 2011 02:42 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 23:04 ETisME wrote:
you can't rely too much on those statistic. Blizzard said it themselves, the ladder tries to match you up with equally skilled players, so you would expect more or less 50% w/l ratio. You really have no clue about statistics, do you? If you really think this, then you shouldn't be discussing balancing through stats because you have other things to learn first.
Please, then, for those of us who didn't major in statistics, why is he wrong?
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I feel like a total intruder here, but I'll give it a try .__.
Problem:
So apparently the Terran 1/1/1 has been a problem for the Protoss for a while now.
Here's a possible solution that popped up into my head an hour ago.
What if Chronoboost got buffed to from 50% to 75%? -keep in mind the numbers can be altered
I think this solution deals with 2 problems at the same time. The apparent 'MULE OP' and Protoss' inability to produce quickly enough to deal with 1/1/1.
So what might the side effects be?
I imagine Zerg perhaps being thrown in the UP corner. I think that could be fixed with a minor tweak on the larve spawn time. from 15sec -> 14sec perhaps?
Any side effects with that?
Can't think of anything negative. At best it would create an opportunity for zerg to become a little bit more aggressive instead of playing the reaction style.
(now I sit back and hope I don't get too much rage .__.)
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EPT
