EPTDesignated Balance Discussion Thread - Page 1265
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RaFox17
Finland4581 Posts
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gab12
Poland147 Posts
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_Epi_
Germany158 Posts
On March 28 2017 04:10 gab12 wrote: im protoss player myself and as im really impressed with how good stats played i would suggest nerfs to adept ,imo they are also problem for mech btw cuz u dont need to set up multi prong attacks just shade and split, and their dps is to much, i really wanted to see soO win and it was really depressing to see him loose to fucking mobility and dps of 1 unit... late game is indeed overpowered it would be far less painfull for example to see stats useing storm drops + stasis wards than these 1 unit ... Warp prism pick up is a bit to much leave it so i t can pick up from the distance but reduce it.By the way when we are near balance how lovely would it be to nerf bio a bit and buff mech a bit.... for example if blizz doesnt want to buff directly mech AA or add new unit lets make cyclone lock on last 7 seconds instead of 14 so damage early is visible it would 16 instead or 8 per shot, so maby 3 phoenix wont shut down mech entirely... ( im posting under every balance update). Also nerf to adept life would be nice... I totally agree. Also from a viewer perspective it is just a pain to watch. Mass adepts is just painfully stupid. | ||
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washikie
United States752 Posts
On March 28 2017 03:38 RaFox17 wrote: Anyone has any ideas how zerg can win against lategame toss? I have seen many attempts and different compositions but nothing really seems to work. (Maps like Daybreak aren´t helping either.) its not easy but prity much, 1. tons of spell caster units and grind them down with energy (hard because feedback) 2. hit them before they can get critical mass, hydra busts are a prity strong thing, zerg has alot of timings to avoid getting into a bad spot, even if you dont kill them with your attacks if you can get in a better economic position and reset protoss's army you will be in a good spot. the toss army has to build up over along time killing tech units during there ramp up to max realy hurts them alot. especially if they feel threatened and have to build more stalkers or adpets to help hold off aggression rather than investing in tech units. 3. if you can prevent them form just maxing out on the ideal skytoss comp than you should be able to to beat any other style with tech switches, play the old fashioned way and just ping pong between air and ground compositions, eventually toss will get lopsided tech and you will crush him. this only works though if you prevent the formation of the air deathball if they get to full maxed on skytoss+hts your probably in for some hurt. you also must have a much better econ than they do and deny them expansions to play this style. 4. abuse mobility, zerg armies are fast, use drops, nydus and runbyes to prevent expansion, if you can force protoss out of position and stop there expansion they will eventually run out of steam. if they do defend expansions than hit the main instead and destroy tech, they have trouble being as many places as you do with sufficient numbers to cover everything. 5. you have to have the same mind set that terran has against zerg late game. Its winnable but I have to use my tempo to get myself an edge going into late game. zerg has a huge amount of mid-early game edges over a toss playing for the long game you have to use these edges to get far enough ahead that p cant ever catch you, the same way t has to play a tempo based game plan vs z. | ||
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
this unit accomplishes nothing that a speedling runby wouldnt, its just a tankier protoss version with more mobility once players start to respect protoss, adept will be less of a problem. right now players play with no respect at all (no bunkers, no spines, dumping all their cash into upgrades/units/bases) and they act surprised when a 5 adepts + 40 probes players hulk smashes a zerg who went straight to 70 drones off no units, panic makes lings when warp prism comes out, and then doesnt have them in the correct position when the drop comes. soO lost 20 drones + floods of lings to like 8 adepts on daybreak and thats not a thing we should balance the game around. not to mention, he had the chance to play a full macro game after that and basically only lost because he bought a bunch of banelings that did nothing instead of vipers/actual units ive seen soo defend that exact rush from sOs and lose nothing, but be behind on drones. and then he just drones, has an army lead and workers lead after he kills the push and protoss 3rd is not safe at all if the pressure flops like that (reminder that it is already planted and will be unable to be canceled) | ||
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InfCereal
Canada1759 Posts
On March 28 2017 06:21 c0sm0naut wrote: Strongly disagree with calls to change the Adept this unit accomplishes nothing that a speedling runby wouldnt, its just a tankier protoss version with more mobility once players start to respect protoss, adept will be less of a problem. right now players play with no respect at all (no bunkers, no spines, dumping all their cash into upgrades/units/bases) and they act surprised when a 5 adepts + 40 probes players hulk smashes a zerg who went straight to 70 drones off no units, panic makes lings when warp prism comes out, and then doesnt have them in the correct position when the drop comes. soO lost 20 drones + floods of lings to like 8 adepts on daybreak and thats not a thing we should balance the game around. not to mention, he had the chance to play a full macro game after that and basically only lost because he bought a bunch of banelings that did nothing instead of vipers/actual units ive seen soo defend that exact rush from sOs and lose nothing, but be behind on drones. and then he just drones, has an army lead and workers lead after he kills the push and protoss 3rd is not safe at all if the pressure flops like that (reminder that it is already planted and will be unable to be canceled) I mean, if 8 lings get into a mineral line, the probes can kill it. If an adept gets in your mineral line and you attack it with drones, you're going to lose like 8 drones, lol. | ||
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
On March 28 2017 08:35 InfCereal wrote: I mean, if 8 lings get into a mineral line, the probes can kill it. If an adept gets in your mineral line and you attack it with drones, you're going to lose like 8 drones, lol. thats just dishonest.. the second any upgrades come into play the probes dont stand a chance. also nothing is keeping the speedlings there. probes are slower than speedlings, and are melee units they cannot kill the speedlings if sling user uses any micro at all again, this accomplishes nothing that a speedling runby or drop doesnt accomplish. i guess the main diffference is that one of these units (lings), everyone has lost to hundreds of times, and continues to lose to on the rare occasion. so they are paranoid and build good defnses vs ground units. that instinct has somehow not kicked in for players yet, versus adepts. the other difference is that lings are faster, cost less, can be made quicker and arent as painful to lose | ||
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xTJx
Brazil419 Posts
Storm on the other hand has no counterplay from zerg, and this is really bad. In a map with few wide areas you're already in disavantage just for playing zerg. Every time you move your units looking for positioning to engange and they clump, protoss cast storms and deal free damage. | ||
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Ryu3600
Canada469 Posts
On March 28 2017 08:54 c0sm0naut wrote: thats just dishonest.. the second any upgrades come into play the probes dont stand a chance. also nothing is keeping the speedlings there. probes are slower than speedlings, and are melee units they cannot kill the speedlings if sling user uses any micro at all again, this accomplishes nothing that a speedling runby or drop doesnt accomplish. i guess the main diffference is that one of these units (lings), everyone has lost to hundreds of times, and continues to lose to on the rare occasion. so they are paranoid and build good defnses vs ground units. that instinct has somehow not kicked in for players yet, versus adepts. the other difference is that lings are faster, cost less, can be made quicker and arent as painful to lose Its painful to lose any units in that view. Also adepts are still pretty cheap. They are worth about 4 Zerglings and 25 gas each. Which isn't cheap granted, but its not expensive either.. With 8 lings it gets annoying and they can definitely rack up some kills. But adepts on the other hand in a warp prism that is terrifying. You can warp in so many adepts which have the shade ability (deadly not op though) to travel around base to base. A Zergling is a melee marine in damage. An adept is a very effective light unit killer that has an invulnerable mobility unlike any other unit. The Zerglings are faster but they are only strong in #'s. 2 Lings will not kill 2 marines. 4 Lings however will. Now not to say Adepts are the only units that clear mineral lines fast. Marine drops are deadly, Widows are deadly, banes are deadly, mass muta is deadly, adepts/zealots are deadly and so are DT's and Disruptors but in raw power an adept drop will always be stronger than 8 lings. Unless its literally a single adept. | ||
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Ryu3600
Canada469 Posts
On March 28 2017 10:09 xTJx wrote: Adepts are silly yes, but they do have counterplays, and mass adept delays protoss tech. Storm on the other hand has no counterplay from zerg, and this is really bad. In a map with few wide areas you're already in disavantage just for playing zerg. Every time you move your units looking for positioning to engange and they clump, protoss casts storm and deal free damage. It is pretty bad for Terran too I mean worse for Zerg since you guys have literally 0 way to deal with it but like if the Terran doesn't have ghosts to emp with and they double stim or have a prolonged battle where they gotta stim again it can devastate the bio army. | ||
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Terrapoyt
3 Posts
Adepts can shade into a perfect position between mineral patches and fokus fire drones. You need to have enough army to deal with them at two fronts at the same time, cause protoss can decide where to attack, and even then he can focus fire your workers and get decent trades. But ofc it takes a lot of skill to make the right decision and do it flawless. | ||
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hiroshOne
Poland425 Posts
On March 28 2017 10:09 xTJx wrote: Adepts are silly yes, but they do have counterplays, and mass adept delays protoss tech. Storm on the other hand has no counterplay from zerg, and this is really bad. In a map with few wide areas you're already in disavantage just for playing zerg. Every time you move your units looking for positioning to engange and they clump, protoss cast storms and deal free damage. Mass Adepts delay nothing relatively. This tactics is guaranteed mass drone/scv kills that sets Zerg/Terran so behind that Toss can easily macro or tech behind it. Terran at least can do counter damage with drops or sth. Zerg will just crush on protoss pylon wall and must play from behind. And if Zerg is behind in eco-and he is 100% after mass adepts- Zerg is dead and nothing can be done. The problem is that the only strengh of Zerg which was economy ad macro was nerfed to the ground by 25%. If we had 4 larva back it would be easier to come back or set some eco advantage to be able to exchange armies in fights more efficiently. | ||
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Phattyasmo
United States69 Posts
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ypslala
Burma545 Posts
On March 28 2017 06:21 c0sm0naut wrote: Strongly disagree with calls to change the Adept this unit accomplishes nothing that a speedling runby wouldnt, its just a tankier protoss version with more mobility once players start to respect protoss, adept will be less of a problem. right now players play with no respect at all (no bunkers, no spines, dumping all their cash into upgrades/units/bases) and they act surprised when a 5 adepts + 40 probes players hulk smashes a zerg who went straight to 70 drones off no units, panic makes lings when warp prism comes out, and then doesnt have them in the correct position when the drop comes. soO lost 20 drones + floods of lings to like 8 adepts on daybreak and thats not a thing we should balance the game around. not to mention, he had the chance to play a full macro game after that and basically only lost because he bought a bunch of banelings that did nothing instead of vipers/actual units ive seen soo defend that exact rush from sOs and lose nothing, but be behind on drones. and then he just drones, has an army lead and workers lead after he kills the push and protoss 3rd is not safe at all if the pressure flops like that (reminder that it is already planted and will be unable to be canceled) i do agree. often it is only a few too many drones made at the wrong time instead of making army units which makes all the difference. soo did that a few times in the gsl finals. | ||
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nomito
8 Posts
Just give them a 150/200 total energy, start with 100, and cost 50(for example), so shade can be used at least 2 times. With this, protoss players will have to think when and where to shade, and will not be shading infinitely for one mineral line to another. | ||
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RaFox17
Finland4581 Posts
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IamBiSa
Germany70 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17386 Posts
On March 30 2017 03:48 RaFox17 wrote: Watching Mana casting revelation on Snutes army and having 100% vision of it makes it impossible for Snute to attack or use spell casters efficiently. BLizz should really nerf revelation! i'm for this. but i think it'll just lead to protoss building more oracles. | ||
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xongnox
540 Posts
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
On March 30 2017 04:59 IamBiSa wrote: Revelation is the only reliable way in dealing with Lurkers. If you want to nerf revelation you have to buff other forms of detection for Protoss. You don't need to see them for 1 minute, 20-30s would be fine. | ||
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