Designated Balance Discussion Thread - Page 1051

On August 08 2014 23:56 Faust852 wrote:


Move your probes ? v_v

On August 09 2014 00:06 robertpires87 wrote:
Widow mine drop is good counter for blink all in, and oracle opening. Without widow mine drop, Protoss can easily be greedy and take third base

On August 09 2014 00:10 DinoMight wrote:


If you move your probes a half a second too late you can lose a lot more as they clump. I've saved all my probes many times, but I've also had a game where I lost literally every single probe to ONE widow mine shot because I misclicked. It's all about seeing the mine/mine drop earl enough really.

On August 09 2014 01:33 plogamer wrote:


Such things are rare at the top level, and for good reason. It is very easy for Protoss to scout widow-mine drops. I don't understand how your mistakes are relevant in a balance discussion.

On August 09 2014 02:31 DinoMight wrote:


Easy there. I'm not saying widow mines should be changed because sometimes I make mistakes. Read my quoted text first.

Someone suggested lowering their hitpoints and I was just saying that whenever I do lose probes to widow mines it's because they burrow with 2-3hp left. So even a few hp reduction would be a big nerf because then just your stalkers/msc could kill it before it burrows.

Also, it's not "very easy" to scout widow mine drops, but good Protosses can usually react fast enough to prevent major probe losses.

On August 09 2014 02:50 plogamer wrote:


You can half-guess mines just by scouting gas, then another half-guess when you scout a factory. By this point, it's either a 1/1/1 (which doesn't work at highest levels anymore) or some naked marine + hellion elevator play or mine drops. Scouting mines is nothing special, just fly hallucinated phoenix from time to time, and/or with robo openings, you can go full 'pigbaby' and fill the map with observers in PvT.

But again, all of this is seriously off-topic. I'm sorry you're having such a hard time with mines.

On August 09 2014 05:52 DinoMight wrote:
LOL. I like how anything anyone says is immediately considered whine and answered with counter whine.

I'm saying that you can't really scout the FIRST widow mine drop and you have to react quickly or lose a lot of workers. I'm not saying widow mines are imbalanced. I was just challenging some guy who said that you could scout it and know it's coming beforehand.

I don't have a problem with the balance of widow mine drops presently. Can we drop this?

On August 09 2014 07:36 Big J wrote:

True. But since you can blindly open robo every game and then you are fine against anything without falling behind, there's no need to know that a WM drop is coming.

On August 09 2014 02:57 DinoMight wrote:


Yes I could also just keep 2 carriers at each mineral line and never have to worry about widow mines.
Your response is as silly as mine because it doesn't factor into account that the first hallucination is typically available after the widow mine is already on its way to your base and that the factory timing can't be scouted if the Terran walls off his base.

I'm not saying Widow mines are a huge problem.. they're not. I'm just saying the way to not lose lots of probes to them is to react quickly because your means of scouting them are limited in the early game.

Once you get as many observers out as Pigbaby gets you shouldn't be losing probes to Widow mines.

EDIT - FYI I'm really not having a hard time with mines. Again I'm just saying a health nerf to mines wouldn't be good.

On August 09 2014 09:32 plogamer wrote:But I guess Protoss are so spoiled by mothership core that making 1 sentry makes them feel like they're 'behind'.

On August 09 2014 12:04 r691175002 wrote:

Technically, making any unnecessary unit does put a player behind. By definition, they would be in a better position had they not made it.

On August 09 2014 09:32 plogamer wrote:


How hard is 1 value sentry for hallucination and guardian shield? But I guess Protoss are so spoiled by mothership core that making 1 sentry makes them feel like they're 'behind'.

On August 09 2014 13:01 Ben... wrote:

Congratulations on completely 100% missing his point, yet again. Heck, you started the entire argument because you misread what he was saying and instead decided to post a knee-jerk, condescending remark in response rather than actually thinking about he was saying. I knew exactly what he was talking about because it is true. I've had tons of games where I've attacked a widow mine with a stalker and probes and had it live with 2-3 health, and agree that a HP nerf would completely kill off widow mine drop openings since Protoss would basically always be able to kill the mine with a group of workers, and a stalker or two. He was never once arguing in favour of widow mines being nerfs. He was arguing against it from his first post on yet you missed that due to either not reading his posts or misreading them.

He's also right in that it isn't always possible to probe scout whether Terran got gas or not, and doubly so on if they got a factory. A lot of Terrans tend to wall off completely early, which, when combined with good building placement, prevents Protoss from probe scouting a factory (or even gas if they wall off early enough or Protoss is unlucky on a 3/4 player map). The next reliable opportunity to scout after that is using a hallucination, which won't hit for at least a couple more minutes, which is too late since the drop will likely either be loading up or already on the way, so instead Protoss has to be proactive and pay attention to their mineral lines and bases so that they can minimize damage from drops if need be.

Seriously, Dinomight, you're a brave soul. I gave up this fight long ago. There once was a time where you could have reasonable discussions with people who actually read your posts and responded in a thoughtful manner in this thread. That time seems to have passed. Now it's turned into this Reddit-like echo chamber where any attempts at arguing against a specific viewset is immediately shot down and the person posting it is called biased by people who cannot see their own biases.

11. The art of war teaches us to rely not on the likelihood of the enemy's not coming, but on our own readiness to receive him; not on the chance of his not attacking, but rather on the fact that we have made our position unassailable.