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On September 16 2011 05:19 KimJongChill wrote:
I still don't get why zerg is being nerfed. All of the other changes are really insignificant, since the infestor is pretty much the entire zerg race. How can blizzard not nerf terran when they have always been winning the majority of games since the beginning? Their thought process seems really strange.
Either they're planning a big Terran patch, or they're not sure what to do without design changes (ie stuff only HotS can do). Terran unlocking their tech tree far too quickly, and thus being far too versatile, is a design problem and very hard to fix with a patch.
In the meantime the community should be intervening and just using every anti-Terran map they can find. Using the likes of XNC still is just nuts.
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^ I believe he said they were going to nerf both colossi and HT, and HT came up first. In true blizzard fashion, the big problem for Zerg never came up.
Flux vanes had a lot of abusive micro issues (though not the only unit that does/did), I think it was that flux vanes coulnd't be countered. Kind of how like mutas beat hydras in zvz.
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The Terran Advantage
Note: I will be using the GSL as my main example as it is the highest level of SC2 play and there are a lot of players and games as evidence.
In this GSL October, there will be 32 of the top players in the world competing for the SC2 universe's biggest prize. Previous winners include the likes of oGs.MC, IM.Nestea, and IM.MVP. This GSL is set to be better than ever....
The problem...
+ Show Spoiler +Unless you don't like TvT. In which case, you might actually hate this GSL. And you might have hated the past couple GSLs as well. Wait, why's that you ask? Well, my uninformed friend, out of the 32 players in GSL October Code S, there are 7 Zergs, 5 Protoss, and 20 Terrans. That's right. 20. That is 63% of the player pool. In GSL August, there were 8 Zergs, 9 Protoss, and 15 Terrans. Still 47% of the players. July? 47%. May? 14T 10P 8Z. Hey, there we go. Terran is only 44%, and the final was a ZvP.
Well we all see the trend over the past 3 months. Lots of Terrans. There were only 6 games played in GSL August that didn't feature a Terran player.
Now don't get me wrong, I love a good TvT, which recently has been all of them. If you haven't already, watch the GSL August Code S finals between IM.MVP and oGs.Top. That is, as Tastosis said, the most developed TvT play in the history of Starcraft 2. It was beautiful, stunning, engaging, and innovative.
However, in the interest of variety (the spice of life!) and for the good of Starcraft 2 as a competitve game, I feel like there needs to be a more balanced (# players per race) way to do this. Obviously you can't just kick out Terran and bring in some code A junkie (cough cough, DRG ) To the contrary, the way GSL works is that better players move up into Code S, worse players get demoted (eventually) to Code A, So by virtue of better play, the number of Terrans in Code S has been increasing, and has been out of proportion (which would be 33.3% in a perfect world) for a couple of months now. Obviously there will never be a perfect worl, and there shouldn't be. But is it really whining about imbalance when I see that 50-55% of the top players in the world over the past 3 months are Terran?
It has been said the Terran simply has the best players in the world. And I'm not saying that flat out is wrong. I am in the opinion that MVP is the M.V.P. of Starcraft 2 at the moment.
Are other top Terrans simply the better players? Examining GSL August, we have Ryung, MMA, Top, Keen, Noblesse, Bomber, Polt, Virus, Supernova, Nada, Happy, asd, Alive, Byun, Clide and Ensnare. When I look at this list, a few names stand out as good players: MVP, MMA, Ryung, Bomber, Polt, Nada, and Byun (Artosis will argue that Clide should be on that list, but I don't see it yet).
I don't particularly see Happy, asd, Ensnare, aLive, and Virus as great Terrans. (Obviously this is the GSL and they are all amazing, I'm strictly comparing them to other GSL participants.) I see them on the level as many of the amazing players in the up/downs and code A: Tassadar, Jookto, Sage, YuGiOh, sC (T) and MC (at the moment anyways).
But wait, all those Terrans (except the health hampered sC) are in Code S. Why's that? A couple reasons I think.
1) The power of the 1/1/1. This is the GSL and players want to win. Hence, T will use 1/1/1 against P.
2) Players who were good at TvT have a chance to excel (this is a loop, because as more Terrans start winning, there will be more Terrans to play against).
3) Terran diversity in options. Terrans have a ton of builds that can be used successfully at high levels of play against Protoss, that rely on Macro and superior mechanics to execute and abuse to their full potential. Protoss? They have templar (extremely susceptible to EMP/Snipe), archons (nullified by emps), zealots (ability to tank nullified by 50% by emps) and Collosus (extremely susceptible to Vikings). Hence, the protoss has some options, but all of them are hardcountered by the Ghost or the Viking (the viking being cheap/easy to produce very quickly). But wait, says the platinum 4v4 mass void rayer, what about my Void rays, they're OP? It's called marines and/or vikings. The tier 1 unit can easily shut down the Void rays given proper use of stim and positioning (I'm not talking about VR all-ins).
So Terrans have an edge on Protoss I say? Statistics say. GSL August, PvT was 34.5%. (gogo Huk beating Nada!). That's pretty darn steep, and needs addressment.
The solution...
+ Show Spoiler +What about TvZ? A lot of Zergs are excellent at the matchup, and many a diamond Terran are calling Infestor/Broolord OP (to which I would say, go watch MVP vs July). Well in fact, this matchup in GSL August featured a 55.5% win rate for Zerg. So all our Zergies are happy, because that's pretty balanced (lets call the extra 5% for Zerg the "Nestea effect").
So apparently it's PvT that needs a change. Something has to give. There are a few options as I see it:
1) Protoss innovation. Simple as that. Zergs innovated (eventually) in reaction to the deathball, Terrans innovated in response to... other Terrans doing the same thing (if Tank=Tank and Hellion > Marine, which comp do you think is better? Tank/hellion or tank/marine? ). What kind of innovation? Don't ask me, I'm a lowly Zerg. Perhaps some more usage of Warp prisms, especially with the new Shield energy buff coming in 1.4.
2) Nerf Terran, ie. Ghosts. Ghosts counter literally every unit a protoss has, and their buildings, with EMP. It's the nature of the beast. What to do? My vote: decrease the range on Ghost spells. At this stage in SC, the ghost outranges all other spellcasters, especially with EMPs. I'm not exactly sure how a Protoss can feedback ghosts effectively if they are out of energy before they get into range.
3) Buff Protoss. There have been a couple threads on this recently, and they all make me not like Protoss as a race in general, so I won't go into this. The only thing I can half-suggest is for guardian shield to block incoming spells? (Which would be awesome).
This would protect zealots, archons, and high templar, however, I'm not sure if that would be balanced in its own right.
I'm not sure which of the following will happen. If nothing happens, then by default number 1 will have to happen (or Protoss will keep getting roflstomp-EMPed).
Anyways, this is all turning out to be very long and probably very boring. I'm sure that other people have already thought of this stuff and more, but I figured I would write it down and be the sacrificial lamb that claims T to be imbalanced. The stats don't lie! (actually they do, but that's another discussion altogether).
As a closing note: this doesn't apply to the lower levels, say, Diamond and below (maybe not to masters either, but I'm not in Masters so I can't vouch for it).
Anyways, have fun flaming me or whatever you want to do (I know my gold league Protoss will support me! And maybe IdrA). GLHF TL! (except you MVP... you don't need luck).
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On September 16 2011 06:19 Belial88 wrote:
^ I believe he said they were going to nerf both colossi and HT, and HT came up first. In true blizzard fashion, the big problem for Zerg never came up.
Flux vanes had a lot of abusive micro issues (though not the only unit that does/did), I think it was that flux vanes coulnd't be countered. Kind of how like mutas beat hydras in zvz.
Flux Vanes was balanced around Voidrays having terrible initial damage, the upgrade was there to give Protoss the ability to snipe expansions and do multi-prong attacks with Voidrays--that was their initial intention for the Voidray, but they couldn't stop people from abusing Voidrays top-end damage and had to change the Voidray over time, Flux Vanes eventually became OP when Voidrays got decent low end damage
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Guardian shields blocking incoming spells was the best suggestion I've ever heard. Better guardian shield could be upgraded from Citedel, thus giving each t1 an utility. It might become OP but what is wrong to have a few months of protoss domination.
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On September 17 2011 15:43 galtdunn wrote:The Terran AdvantageNote: I will be using the GSL as my main example as it is the highest level of SC2 play and there are a lot of players and games as evidence. In this GSL October, there will be 32 of the top players in the world competing for the SC2 universe's biggest prize. Previous winners include the likes of oGs.MC, IM.Nestea, and IM.MVP. This GSL is set to be better than ever.... The problem... + Show Spoiler +Unless you don't like TvT. In which case, you might actually hate this GSL. And you might have hated the past couple GSLs as well. Wait, why's that you ask? Well, my uninformed friend, out of the 32 players in GSL October Code S, there are 7 Zergs, 5 Protoss, and 20 Terrans. That's right. 20. That is 63% of the player pool. In GSL August, there were 8 Zergs, 9 Protoss, and 15 Terrans. Still 47% of the players. July? 47%. May? 14T 10P 8Z. Hey, there we go. Terran is only 44%, and the final was a ZvP.
Well we all see the trend over the past 3 months. Lots of Terrans. There were only 6 games played in GSL August that didn't feature a Terran player.
Now don't get me wrong, I love a good TvT, which recently has been all of them. If you haven't already, watch the GSL August Code S finals between IM.MVP and oGs.Top. That is, as Tastosis said, the most developed TvT play in the history of Starcraft 2. It was beautiful, stunning, engaging, and innovative.
However, in the interest of variety (the spice of life!) and for the good of Starcraft 2 as a competitve game, I feel like there needs to be a more balanced (# players per race) way to do this. Obviously you can't just kick out Terran and bring in some code A junkie (cough cough, DRG ) To the contrary, the way GSL works is that better players move up into Code S, worse players get demoted (eventually) to Code A, So by virtue of better play, the number of Terrans in Code S has been increasing, and has been out of proportion (which would be 33.3% in a perfect world) for a couple of months now. Obviously there will never be a perfect worl, and there shouldn't be. But is it really whining about imbalance when I see that 50-55% of the top players in the world over the past 3 months are Terran?
It has been said the Terran simply has the best players in the world. And I'm not saying that flat out is wrong. I am in the opinion that MVP is the M.V.P. of Starcraft 2 at the moment.
Are other top Terrans simply the better players? Examining GSL August, we have Ryung, MMA, Top, Keen, Noblesse, Bomber, Polt, Virus, Supernova, Nada, Happy, asd, Alive, Byun, Clide and Ensnare. When I look at this list, a few names stand out as good players: MVP, MMA, Ryung, Bomber, Polt, Nada, and Byun (Artosis will argue that Clide should be on that list, but I don't see it yet).
I don't particularly see Happy, asd, Ensnare, aLive, and Virus as great Terrans. (Obviously this is the GSL and they are all amazing, I'm strictly comparing them to other GSL participants.) I see them on the level as many of the amazing players in the up/downs and code A: Tassadar, Jookto, Sage, YuGiOh, sC (T) and MC (at the moment anyways).
But wait, all those Terrans (except the health hampered sC) are in Code S. Why's that? A couple reasons I think.
1) The power of the 1/1/1. This is the GSL and players want to win. Hence, T will use 1/1/1 against P.
2) Players who were good at TvT have a chance to excel (this is a loop, because as more Terrans start winning, there will be more Terrans to play against).
3) Terran diversity in options. Terrans have a ton of builds that can be used successfully at high levels of play against Protoss, that rely on Macro and superior mechanics to execute and abuse to their full potential. Protoss? They have templar (extremely susceptible to EMP/Snipe), archons (nullified by emps), zealots (ability to tank nullified by 50% by emps) and Collosus (extremely susceptible to Vikings). Hence, the protoss has some options, but all of them are hardcountered by the Ghost or the Viking (the viking being cheap/easy to produce very quickly). But wait, says the platinum 4v4 mass void rayer, what about my Void rays, they're OP? It's called marines and/or vikings. The tier 1 unit can easily shut down the Void rays given proper use of stim and positioning (I'm not talking about VR all-ins).
So Terrans have an edge on Protoss I say? Statistics say. GSL August, PvT was 34.5%. (gogo Huk beating Nada!). That's pretty darn steep, and needs addressment. The solution... + Show Spoiler +What about TvZ? A lot of Zergs are excellent at the matchup, and many a diamond Terran are calling Infestor/Broolord OP (to which I would say, go watch MVP vs July). Well in fact, this matchup in GSL August featured a 55.5% win rate for Zerg. So all our Zergies are happy, because that's pretty balanced (lets call the extra 5% for Zerg the "Nestea effect").
So apparently it's PvT that needs a change. Something has to give. There are a few options as I see it:
1) Protoss innovation. Simple as that. Zergs innovated (eventually) in reaction to the deathball, Terrans innovated in response to... other Terrans doing the same thing (if Tank=Tank and Hellion > Marine, which comp do you think is better? Tank/hellion or tank/marine? ). What kind of innovation? Don't ask me, I'm a lowly Zerg. Perhaps some more usage of Warp prisms, especially with the new Shield energy buff coming in 1.4.
2) Nerf Terran, ie. Ghosts. Ghosts counter literally every unit a protoss has, and their buildings, with EMP. It's the nature of the beast. What to do? My vote: decrease the range on Ghost spells. At this stage in SC, the ghost outranges all other spellcasters, especially with EMPs. I'm not exactly sure how a Protoss can feedback ghosts effectively if they are out of energy before they get into range.
3) Buff Protoss. There have been a couple threads on this recently, and they all make me not like Protoss as a race in general, so I won't go into this. The only thing I can half-suggest is for guardian shield to block incoming spells? (Which would be awesome).
This would protect zealots, archons, and high templar, however, I'm not sure if that would be balanced in its own right.
I'm not sure which of the following will happen. If nothing happens, then by default number 1 will have to happen (or Protoss will keep getting roflstomp-EMPed).
Anyways, this is all turning out to be very long and probably very boring. I'm sure that other people have already thought of this stuff and more, but I figured I would write it down and be the sacrificial lamb that claims T to be imbalanced. The stats don't lie! (actually they do, but that's another discussion altogether).
As a closing note: this doesn't apply to the lower levels, say, Diamond and below (maybe not to masters either, but I'm not in Masters so I can't vouch for it).
Anyways, have fun flaming me or whatever you want to do (I know my gold league Protoss will support me! And maybe IdrA). GLHF TL! (except you MVP... you don't need luck).
Good post,
I enjoyed reading that.
Even though I'm a zerg player, I do see why EMP is mindblowingly strong against protoss.
Think if fungal automatically doing 100 damage instead of 40 over a wider area...
I wish it would do only 50 damage to shields...
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On September 16 2011 05:19 KimJongChill wrote:
I still don't get why zerg is being nerfed. All of the other changes are really insignificant, since the infestor is pretty much the entire zerg race. How can blizzard not nerf terran when they have always been winning the majority of games since the beginning? Their thought process seems really strange.
I think they figured it would be easier to balance the game if you would focus more on the two other races than all of them equally. Terran would be the most ideal race that wouldn't be focused so much in balance since it is the most complete race in the game and I don't think it would make much sense to nerf terran when the TvZ and TvP match-ups are basically incomplete race versus complete race.
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On September 17 2011 15:43 galtdunn wrote:
So apparently it's PvT that needs a change. Something has to give. There are a few options as I see it:
1) Protoss innovation. Simple as that. Zergs innovated (eventually) in reaction to the deathball, Terrans innovated in response to... other Terrans doing the same thing (if Tank=Tank and Hellion > Marine, which comp do you think is better? Tank/hellion or tank/marine? ). What kind of innovation? Don't ask me, I'm a lowly Zerg. Perhaps some more usage of Warp prisms, especially with the new Shield energy buff coming in 1.4.
So many people have suggested that, and the problem is NOT a lack of Protoss innovation. To start, I'd like to mention that Zerg did NOT innovate eventually in reaction to the deathball. Infestors were given a HUGE buff vs Deathballs which completely changed the way Protoss had to play.
Terrans have innovated in TvT, and partly TvZ, certainly. But in TvP most Terran builds have been in the plumbing since Beta or early release. For example, the Marine/Tank/Banshee 1base all-in has been around since Beta and has only become really used now because it has been more refined and its usefulness more obvious as the game becomes more evolved. The only real "innovation" Terran has made in TvP for a while now has simply been using Ghosts, but Ghosts were highlighted with a change in cost that is probably a buff and HTs were given a nerf with the removal of KA, so Ghosts are now even better vs Protoss because warp-in storms were so hard to remove with EMP.
On the subject of Ghosts, I think it shows that it has taken this long to start to unlock the potential of Ghosts how little Terran has changed in TvP - HTs, Colossi, Phoenix et al were all used in PvT for quite a while, with the only change recently being the use of Warp Prisms with HTs (although that is really dangerous and tricky to pull off).
One of the problems with advocating the Warp Prism as a useful innovation is that it comes at a time where Protoss is actually relatively strong. The Warp Prism will clearly not help against the 1-1-1 (which has Marines as its core DPS), and are only useful once on a number of bases and in the midgame. Quite often, PvT doesn't even get into the midgame because of the 1-1-1.
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On September 16 2011 01:51 Techno wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 01:32 Turnus wrote:On September 15 2011 23:31 GinDo wrote:
I think the real issue with is that lack of an all around safe build in PvT:
Personally as a Terran I would like to see Terran be limited in their Choices of Tech vs. Protoss. Against Protoss literally every unit and strategy is viable in the early game to mid game.
Yes, us brotoss have issues with safe openers and having to continually scout and poke a Terran just to see what tech route they are going. We need to specifically tailor our tech and build to what the Terran feels like doing all whilly nillly-like... Frustrations all over the place. As a Terran I feel like this is true for both sides. In fact, I kinda think in the mid game scouting is more important for the Terran. As almost all Terrans do the exact same thing in the mid game (MMM), so what are you scouting for? In the early game, I think the scouting requirements are equal (is he all inning?), and past that I think its on the Terran to know if hes going: a) Chargelot/Archon (double reactor rax, 4 rax stim/ghost timing) b) Colossus (reactor port + naked port pumping vikings while dropping to try and secure a third) c) Mass Immortal/Gateway I dont think Protoss needs much scouting in the midgame. I've tried adding tanks to my bio and even the Protoss I was playing against said it was stupid. Blue Flame Hellions are good to add vs Chargelots, but what is there to scout for from Terran after he expands anways? In other news, I think Protosses should be massing immortals not only after the patch but right now. http://drop.sc/34473http://drop.sc/34472After the patch, they are gonna be even better.
Immortals are not the great solution to PvT that some people are trying to make out as they are also hard countered by ghosts.
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Actually another idea I just had is if you give ghosts 2 separate EMPs, one for shields and one for energy. And maybe make EMP cost ore energy for ghosts to use? When I see 10-15 emps dropped on a P army at once, I don't even need to watch the next 15 seconds. I know what's going to happen: T rolls P and laughs because SC2=EZ,
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there are 2 big problems with emp:
1st: it is a way too fast and cheap tech compared to the other 2 races storm/fungal
2nd: its too strong against Protoss.
and a additional protoss issue: toss has not an energy upgrade anymore for the hightemplar, (khaldarin). ghosts do have an energy upgrade for instant emp ready.
if you have doubts, as a terran player: watch the 3rd game Huk/Thorzain from dreamhack/spain as one of 100000 examples in the last months, (emp/stim/concussive/combatshield ready at 10 minute mark and the push comes)
solution:
1st: make the tech slower, make it not sooner availaible as storm and make it as expensive as storm
2nd: make it weaker. either shields get attacked or energy - not both. zerg only loses energy when empd.
additional protoss problem:
- either remove the energy upgrade for instant emp ready (and for infestors as well to keep the balance)
- or give khaldarin back.
i think, the removement of khaldarin caused a big imbalance in PvT
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On September 17 2011 18:50 SeaSwift wrote:One of the problems with advocating the Warp Prism as a useful innovation is that it comes at a time where Protoss is actually relatively strong. The Warp Prism will clearly not help against the 1-1-1 (which has Marines as its core DPS), and are only useful once on a number of bases and in the midgame. Quite often, PvT doesn't even get into the midgame because of the 1-1-1.
My suggestion for 1-1-1: give Stalkers a range upgrade similar to BW so they annihilate unstimmed marines. That would probably mess with PvZ Stalker all-ins though
On September 18 2011 07:25 ypslala wrote:
there are 2 big problems with emp:
1st: it is a way too fast and cheap tech compared to the other 2 races storm/fungal
2nd: its too strong against Protoss.
and a additional protoss issue: toss has not an energy upgrade anymore for the hightemplar, (khaldarin). ghosts do have an energy upgrade for instant emp ready.
if you have doubts, as a terran player: watch the 3rd game Huk/Thorzain from dreamhack/spain as one of 100000 examples in the last months, (emp/stim/concussive/combatshield ready at 10 minute mark and the push comes)
That game doesn't say anything about ghosts. Huk went 5-gate but never pressured, his robo was super late. In a normal robo build he will have colossi out by the time the ghost push hits.
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i think a big issue is the difference in upgrade accessibility for terran versus protoss versus zerg. terran has tonnes of useful, game-changing upgrades available with a tech lab on the barracks. protoss needs twilight council to break even with these upgrades. zerg has slightly less than terran but finds a comfortable middle ground with useful abilities like ling speed.
either move some of stim/concussion/shield to higher tiers or move charge/blink down. it's silly that one race can just force another to tech up by spamming low tier units.
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On September 18 2011 07:30 Shiori wrote:
i think a big issue is the difference in upgrade accessibility for terran versus protoss versus zerg. terran has tonnes of useful, game-changing upgrades available with a tech lab on the barracks. protoss needs twilight council to break even with these upgrades. zerg has slightly less than terran but finds a comfortable middle ground with useful abilities like ling speed.
either move some of stim/concussion/shield to higher tiers or move charge/blink down. it's silly that one race can just force another to tech up by spamming low tier units.
You need to consider all the matchups.
Blink research at cybercore would break PvZ in an instant, PvP too for that matter
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On September 18 2011 07:29 hugman wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2011 18:50 SeaSwift wrote:One of the problems with advocating the Warp Prism as a useful innovation is that it comes at a time where Protoss is actually relatively strong. The Warp Prism will clearly not help against the 1-1-1 (which has Marines as its core DPS), and are only useful once on a number of bases and in the midgame. Quite often, PvT doesn't even get into the midgame because of the 1-1-1.
My suggestion for 1-1-1: give Stalkers a range upgrade similar to BW so they annihilate unstimmed marines. That would probably mess with PvZ Stalker all-ins though Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 07:25 ypslala wrote:
there are 2 big problems with emp:
1st: it is a way too fast and cheap tech compared to the other 2 races storm/fungal
2nd: its too strong against Protoss.
and a additional protoss issue: toss has not an energy upgrade anymore for the hightemplar, (khaldarin). ghosts do have an energy upgrade for instant emp ready.
if you have doubts, as a terran player: watch the 3rd game Huk/Thorzain from dreamhack/spain as one of 100000 examples in the last months, (emp/stim/concussive/combatshield ready at 10 minute mark and the push comes) That game doesn't say anything about ghosts. Huk went 5-gate but never pressured, his robo was super late. In a normal robo build he will have colossi out by the time the ghost push hits.
when colossi out at 10 minute mark........--> its fast colossi. fast colossi have a second side: only a few gateway units at the 10 minute mark. thorzains push would not have been less overpowered. btw, my post was not so much about this game. find another argument pls.
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On September 18 2011 07:32 hugman wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 07:30 Shiori wrote:
i think a big issue is the difference in upgrade accessibility for terran versus protoss versus zerg. terran has tonnes of useful, game-changing upgrades available with a tech lab on the barracks. protoss needs twilight council to break even with these upgrades. zerg has slightly less than terran but finds a comfortable middle ground with useful abilities like ling speed.
either move some of stim/concussion/shield to higher tiers or move charge/blink down. it's silly that one race can just force another to tech up by spamming low tier units. You need to consider all the matchups. Blink research at cybercore would break PvZ in an instant, PvP too for that matter
not really, small number of blink stalkers get raped by speed lings.
i would love to see charge and zealot speed beeing seperated into 2 researchable spells and made available earlier.
this would help pvt alot.
i.e. just the speed upgrade into core, could make early no gas expands vs. Terran viable.
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On September 18 2011 07:46 freetgy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 07:32 hugman wrote:On September 18 2011 07:30 Shiori wrote:
i think a big issue is the difference in upgrade accessibility for terran versus protoss versus zerg. terran has tonnes of useful, game-changing upgrades available with a tech lab on the barracks. protoss needs twilight council to break even with these upgrades. zerg has slightly less than terran but finds a comfortable middle ground with useful abilities like ling speed.
either move some of stim/concussion/shield to higher tiers or move charge/blink down. it's silly that one race can just force another to tech up by spamming low tier units. You need to consider all the matchups. Blink research at cybercore would break PvZ in an instant, PvP too for that matter not really, small number of blink stalkers get raped by speed lings. i would love to see charge and zealot speed beeing seperated into 2 researchable spells and made available earlier. this would help pvt alot. i.e. just the speed upgrade into core, could make early no gas expands vs. Terran viable.
It would also make chargeless zealot drops less pathetic.
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Regarding pvt imbalance:
I think the guardian shield + immortal buff will help a bit next patch against the 1/1/1. If it isn't enough one could consider reducing the life of marines slightly before combat shield and make it so that marines after combat shield still have 55 life.
EMP might be a bit too strong against toss as well. I see 2 possible changes to the damage to shield (the removal of energy should be unchanged).
1) A slight reduce in the damage against shield (eg. from 100 to 90).
2) Make the emp do damage over time (like 2 seconds or so. More would probably make it too weak).
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My vote: decrease the range on Ghost spells. At this stage in SC, the ghost outranges all other spellcasters, especially with EMPs. I'm not exactly sure how a Protoss can feedback ghosts effectively if they are out of energy before they get into range.
Hit the nail, on the head.
EMP doesn't require research-- OK, whatever. Terran could get 100/100 when they first use an EMP for all I care.
But ghosts outranging feedback by 3 is a bit ridiculous. In a perfect situation, ghosts will always win. Not ideal, but if you really have to be perfect to be 100% assured of victory, I can deal with that. However with a 3(!) range buffer to hit an EMP before the fastest, perfect feedback can come, you don't have to be anywhere near perfect.
Ghosts are supposed to be the counter, even hard counter to HTs. Completely eliminating the tech is extreme, but would be bearable if the Ghost itself didn't inflict so much damage to already inferior gateway units. Protoss needs a counter for the Ghost, and the HT just doesn't cut it.
AFAI can see (AFAICS?), Ghosts counter HTs, but HTs do not counter Ghosts, and therein lies the problem.
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no, therein lies the problem not.
the counter-unit for the ghost is not the HT. ghosts hardcounter HTs. thats why blizzard gave the range advantage to ghosts. toss has not a direct counter. units without energy are better, like colossus. or stalker. thats all.
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EPT
