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On August 15 2011 05:21 wats0n wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2011 05:18 Longshank wrote:On August 15 2011 05:10 wats0n wrote:On August 15 2011 05:08 Longshank wrote:
aww, NASL almost had my sympathy but then had to go throw baseless allegations and acting all amateurish. Back to square one. Baseless? They had signed contracts then they proceeded with their league then the Koreans broke their contracts. Yes and that had me in favor of NASL. But then Xeris accused SC2con for blocking FXO and MVP from participating. They may have poisoned the waters behind the scenes for all we know. It's sketchy as hell that literally every single Korean would pull out at the exact same time after the league had already started. It's not shocking that they would convince themselves that it was their own decision after they already acted.
FXOBoss had already explained here on TL that sC didn't wish to participate for personal reasons when Xeris posted his allegations. And Boss is not getting pushed around by SC2con.
Stopbeing paranoid, Xeris said himself he only had second hand information to go on...and that information turned out incorrect.
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Xeris if you read this: in the future do an invite only qualifier. Use the other tournaments to determine your invites. You don't need 1,000 man open qualifiers. You got carried away and there shouldn't have been 20 Koreans (or whatever the number was) in the league to begin with. Use invites to seed the better ones if you must.
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if i would be a korean team manager i would be like glee free money right now *send team in*.
well since i prefer when regions play vs their own region i am all for it. But damn the communication between us and korea is just plain bad. I would just stop posting on forums or twitter. Only bad publicity lol
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On August 15 2011 05:28 Dexx wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2011 05:27 canikizu wrote:On August 15 2011 05:25 Dexx wrote:
My questions are:
1. Why did so many Koreans take part in the qualifiers, when they "independently" did not want to take part in NASL 2?
2. Why did all Koreans sign the contracts for NASL 2, when they "independently" did not want to take part in NASL 2?
3.Why did all Koreans mysteriously withdraw at the same time for the same reason independently?
4. Why do the Koreans behind this think Westerners are that stupid not to call the bluff? season 2 qualifier began when season 1 wasn't over yet. No one at that time know how NASL handled stuffs. What did NASL do wrong after Season1?
1) The LAN finals were awful. Cost players lots of money to fly over (since they only provided $500) and play 1 bo3.
2) Asking another $500 to play in season 2 while not paying back $250 from season 1 yet (yeah i know the contract, it's still the truth that they have to put $750 out)
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Just want to say that the MLG - NASL comparisons are way off base. Yes, MLG is a smaller prize pool, but it's 5k for 3 days(call it a week with travel and jet lag). NASL is 50k for 11 weeks of play, including practice time, waking up at odd hours, and the week of travel/jet lag. If you want to bring up the PuMa coming through the open bracket, look at the players he had to beat to do that, that's lottery type odds.
It's a huge time investment. Also, if the teams are as cash strapped as it sounds, it's not surprising they're reluctant to put more money into the NASL before they get money back out.(Contracts are right, NASL is doing nothing technically wrong here, but ask a homeless person to pay you for tomorrow night's supper before you feed them tonight)
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On August 15 2011 05:32 Longshank wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2011 05:21 wats0n wrote:On August 15 2011 05:18 Longshank wrote:On August 15 2011 05:10 wats0n wrote:On August 15 2011 05:08 Longshank wrote:
aww, NASL almost had my sympathy but then had to go throw baseless allegations and acting all amateurish. Back to square one. Baseless? They had signed contracts then they proceeded with their league then the Koreans broke their contracts. Yes and that had me in favor of NASL. But then Xeris accused SC2con for blocking FXO and MVP from participating. They may have poisoned the waters behind the scenes for all we know. It's sketchy as hell that literally every single Korean would pull out at the exact same time after the league had already started. It's not shocking that they would convince themselves that it was their own decision after they already acted. FXOBoss had already explained here on TL that sC didn't wish to participate for personal reasons when Xeris posted his allegations. And Boss is not getting pushed around by SC2con. Stopbeing paranoid, Xeris said himself he only had second hand information to go on...and that information turned out incorrect.
But didn't sC go thru qualifiers for season 2? If he had reasons for not participating then why qualify for the season. That's what I don't understand.
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On August 15 2011 05:36 canikizu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2011 05:28 Dexx wrote:On August 15 2011 05:27 canikizu wrote:On August 15 2011 05:25 Dexx wrote:
My questions are:
1. Why did so many Koreans take part in the qualifiers, when they "independently" did not want to take part in NASL 2?
2. Why did all Koreans sign the contracts for NASL 2, when they "independently" did not want to take part in NASL 2?
3.Why did all Koreans mysteriously withdraw at the same time for the same reason independently?
4. Why do the Koreans behind this think Westerners are that stupid not to call the bluff? season 2 qualifier began when season 1 wasn't over yet. No one at that time know how NASL handled stuffs. What did NASL do wrong after Season1? 1) The LAN finals were awful. Cost players lots of money to fly over (since they only provided $500) and play 1 bo3. 2) Asking another $500 to play in season 2 while not paying back $250 from season 1 yet (yeah i know the contract, it's still the truth that they have to put $750 out)
Let's try and be factually correct please.
From what I read, the teams that paid their deposit the first time around had the option to simply up their depost. If they deposited 250 USD in S1, and are playing S2 again, they'd only have to wire another 250 USD over, not an additional 500.
(500 still is a ridiculous amount tho)
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On August 15 2011 05:39 Derez wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2011 05:36 canikizu wrote:On August 15 2011 05:28 Dexx wrote:On August 15 2011 05:27 canikizu wrote:On August 15 2011 05:25 Dexx wrote:
My questions are:
1. Why did so many Koreans take part in the qualifiers, when they "independently" did not want to take part in NASL 2?
2. Why did all Koreans sign the contracts for NASL 2, when they "independently" did not want to take part in NASL 2?
3.Why did all Koreans mysteriously withdraw at the same time for the same reason independently?
4. Why do the Koreans behind this think Westerners are that stupid not to call the bluff? season 2 qualifier began when season 1 wasn't over yet. No one at that time know how NASL handled stuffs. What did NASL do wrong after Season1? 1) The LAN finals were awful. Cost players lots of money to fly over (since they only provided $500) and play 1 bo3. 2) Asking another $500 to play in season 2 while not paying back $250 from season 1 yet (yeah i know the contract, it's still the truth that they have to put $750 out) Let's try and be factually correct please. From what I read, the teams that paid their deposit the first time around had the option to simply up their depost. If they deposited 250 USD in S1, and are playing S2 again, they'd only have to wire another 250 USD over, not an additional 500. (500 still is a ridiculous amount tho)
If it makes sure that players show up for their matches as scheduled, I think 500 is fine. Actually 500 is probably not enough as evidenced in S1 when there were multiple times that people didn't show up and highly inconvenienced their opponents, especially the korean players, who were already playing at 4am and then asked to wait sometimes for up to 4 hours for the opponents who still didn't show up.
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On August 15 2011 05:25 Dexx wrote:
My questions are:
1. Why did so many Koreans take part in the qualifiers, when they "independently" did not want to take part in NASL 2?
2. Why did all Koreans sign the contracts for NASL 2, when they "independently" did not want to take part in NASL 2?
3.Why did all Koreans mysteriously withdraw at the same time for the same reason independently?
4. Why do the Koreans behind this think Westerners are that stupid not to call the bluff?
+1
OK nasl called a group of ppl a name that already was taken, ok fine. But why not comment on the facts in this case =)
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On August 15 2011 05:36 canikizu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2011 05:28 Dexx wrote:On August 15 2011 05:27 canikizu wrote:On August 15 2011 05:25 Dexx wrote:
My questions are:
1. Why did so many Koreans take part in the qualifiers, when they "independently" did not want to take part in NASL 2?
2. Why did all Koreans sign the contracts for NASL 2, when they "independently" did not want to take part in NASL 2?
3.Why did all Koreans mysteriously withdraw at the same time for the same reason independently?
4. Why do the Koreans behind this think Westerners are that stupid not to call the bluff? season 2 qualifier began when season 1 wasn't over yet. No one at that time know how NASL handled stuffs. What did NASL do wrong after Season1? 1) The LAN finals were awful. Cost players lots of money to fly over (since they only provided $500) and play 1 bo3. 2) Asking another $500 to play in season 2 while not paying back $250 from season 1 yet (yeah i know the contract, it's still the truth that they have to put $750 out)
I asked you what did NASL do wrong, meaning what were the things they promised but did not keep, where did they violate the contracts?
Why did the Koreans sign the contracts that asked for a deposit, when they did not like the terms?
Don't they read contracts before they sign them? What do you thing would happen, if anyone on here signed a mobile phone contract and out of a sudden didn't like the terms afterwards? For sure the comany would give a refund and terminate the contract? lol only in your dreams...
If you don't have your acts together in this world, you don't survive long.
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On August 15 2011 05:36 canikizu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2011 05:28 Dexx wrote:On August 15 2011 05:27 canikizu wrote:On August 15 2011 05:25 Dexx wrote:
My questions are:
1. Why did so many Koreans take part in the qualifiers, when they "independently" did not want to take part in NASL 2?
2. Why did all Koreans sign the contracts for NASL 2, when they "independently" did not want to take part in NASL 2?
3.Why did all Koreans mysteriously withdraw at the same time for the same reason independently?
4. Why do the Koreans behind this think Westerners are that stupid not to call the bluff? season 2 qualifier began when season 1 wasn't over yet. No one at that time know how NASL handled stuffs. What did NASL do wrong after Season1? 1) The LAN finals were awful. Cost players lots of money to fly over (since they only provided $500) and play 1 bo3. 2) Asking another $500 to play in season 2 while not paying back $250 from season 1 yet (yeah i know the contract, it's still the truth that they have to put $750 out)
No they are now asking for $500, up from $250. This means that if you want to participate in Season 2, you will pay $250 more and not get your S1 deposit back. If you don't want to participate in Season 2, then you get your $250 back.
EDIT: To clarify, you get your $500 back at the end of S2, unless you want to participate in S3, or if they waive the deposit due to good past behavior.
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On August 15 2011 05:36 canikizu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2011 05:28 Dexx wrote:On August 15 2011 05:27 canikizu wrote:On August 15 2011 05:25 Dexx wrote:
My questions are:
1. Why did so many Koreans take part in the qualifiers, when they "independently" did not want to take part in NASL 2?
2. Why did all Koreans sign the contracts for NASL 2, when they "independently" did not want to take part in NASL 2?
3.Why did all Koreans mysteriously withdraw at the same time for the same reason independently?
4. Why do the Koreans behind this think Westerners are that stupid not to call the bluff? season 2 qualifier began when season 1 wasn't over yet. No one at that time know how NASL handled stuffs. What did NASL do wrong after Season1? 1) The LAN finals were awful. Cost players lots of money to fly over (since they only provided $500) and play 1 bo3. 2) Asking another $500 to play in season 2 while not paying back $250 from season 1 yet (yeah i know the contract, it's still the truth that they have to put $750 out)
1. The Korean teams knew they were only getting a $500 travel stipend from the start and I'd imagine that was in the s1 contract. Its silly to complain about that when they knew about it from the start. If you don't like it, don't agree to play in the league, simple as that.
2. Teams were given the option to just send in another $250 and not receive their s1 deposit to make up the $500 s2 deposit. For players that weren't in s2 deposits were returned.
You really should familiarize yourself with the situation before making such claims.
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I remember the shitstorm that ensued when Painuser was absent for his match against Boxer. They probably upped the deposit to prevent something like that from happening again. And yet, NASL received undue hate in both instances. Talk about irony.
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On August 15 2011 05:38 Slider954 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2011 05:32 Longshank wrote:On August 15 2011 05:21 wats0n wrote:On August 15 2011 05:18 Longshank wrote:On August 15 2011 05:10 wats0n wrote:On August 15 2011 05:08 Longshank wrote:
aww, NASL almost had my sympathy but then had to go throw baseless allegations and acting all amateurish. Back to square one. Baseless? They had signed contracts then they proceeded with their league then the Koreans broke their contracts. Yes and that had me in favor of NASL. But then Xeris accused SC2con for blocking FXO and MVP from participating. They may have poisoned the waters behind the scenes for all we know. It's sketchy as hell that literally every single Korean would pull out at the exact same time after the league had already started. It's not shocking that they would convince themselves that it was their own decision after they already acted. FXOBoss had already explained here on TL that sC didn't wish to participate for personal reasons when Xeris posted his allegations. And Boss is not getting pushed around by SC2con. Stopbeing paranoid, Xeris said himself he only had second hand information to go on...and that information turned out incorrect. But didn't sC go thru qualifiers for season 2? If he had reasons for not participating then why qualify for the season. That's what I don't understand.
This keeps being brought up; but remember that the qualifiers happened *before* the grand finals of the previous season, which is what soured the Koreans on participating in the future.
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On August 15 2011 06:22 Typhon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2011 05:38 Slider954 wrote:On August 15 2011 05:32 Longshank wrote:On August 15 2011 05:21 wats0n wrote:On August 15 2011 05:18 Longshank wrote:On August 15 2011 05:10 wats0n wrote:On August 15 2011 05:08 Longshank wrote:
aww, NASL almost had my sympathy but then had to go throw baseless allegations and acting all amateurish. Back to square one. Baseless? They had signed contracts then they proceeded with their league then the Koreans broke their contracts. Yes and that had me in favor of NASL. But then Xeris accused SC2con for blocking FXO and MVP from participating. They may have poisoned the waters behind the scenes for all we know. It's sketchy as hell that literally every single Korean would pull out at the exact same time after the league had already started. It's not shocking that they would convince themselves that it was their own decision after they already acted. FXOBoss had already explained here on TL that sC didn't wish to participate for personal reasons when Xeris posted his allegations. And Boss is not getting pushed around by SC2con. Stopbeing paranoid, Xeris said himself he only had second hand information to go on...and that information turned out incorrect. But didn't sC go thru qualifiers for season 2? If he had reasons for not participating then why qualify for the season. That's what I don't understand. This keeps being brought up; but remember that the qualifiers happened *before* the grand finals of the previous season, which is what soured the Koreans on participating in the future.
You are not driven away by the Finals and then afterwards sign contracts for participating in NASL2. That doesn't make sense at all.
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NASL receives 'undue hate' because they air their dirty laundry in public every time. Look at organizations like MLG and GSL. How often do you see drama in here with regards to them? That's why I see NASL as a second class league. Even when MLG Dallas was a terrible experience, they gave away free HD, and they catered to their customer as much as possible to try to clean up their reputation.
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On August 15 2011 06:22 Typhon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2011 05:38 Slider954 wrote:On August 15 2011 05:32 Longshank wrote:On August 15 2011 05:21 wats0n wrote:On August 15 2011 05:18 Longshank wrote:On August 15 2011 05:10 wats0n wrote:On August 15 2011 05:08 Longshank wrote:
aww, NASL almost had my sympathy but then had to go throw baseless allegations and acting all amateurish. Back to square one. Baseless? They had signed contracts then they proceeded with their league then the Koreans broke their contracts. Yes and that had me in favor of NASL. But then Xeris accused SC2con for blocking FXO and MVP from participating. They may have poisoned the waters behind the scenes for all we know. It's sketchy as hell that literally every single Korean would pull out at the exact same time after the league had already started. It's not shocking that they would convince themselves that it was their own decision after they already acted. FXOBoss had already explained here on TL that sC didn't wish to participate for personal reasons when Xeris posted his allegations. And Boss is not getting pushed around by SC2con. Stopbeing paranoid, Xeris said himself he only had second hand information to go on...and that information turned out incorrect. But didn't sC go thru qualifiers for season 2? If he had reasons for not participating then why qualify for the season. That's what I don't understand. This keeps being brought up; but remember that the qualifiers happened *before* the grand finals of the previous season, which is what soured the Koreans on participating in the future.
Ok, if thats the case then why did they still go ahead and sign the contracts for season 2 after the grand finals had concluded.
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On August 15 2011 05:37 Barolt wrote:
Just want to say that the MLG - NASL comparisons are way off base. Yes, MLG is a smaller prize pool, but it's 5k for 3 days(call it a week with travel and jet lag). NASL is 50k for 11 weeks of play, including practice time, waking up at odd hours, and the week of travel/jet lag. If you want to bring up the PuMa coming through the open bracket, look at the players he had to beat to do that, that's lottery type odds.
It's a huge time investment. Also, if the teams are as cash strapped as it sounds, it's not surprising they're reluctant to put more money into the NASL before they get money back out.(Contracts are right, NASL is doing nothing technically wrong here, but ask a homeless person to pay you for tomorrow night's supper before you feed them tonight)
This doesn't make any sense. If the teams required payoffs to compete then even staying in team houses in Seoul to compete in GSL would not be feasible. Teams need sponsors, not prize money, it is players that want prize money. Now if the Korean teams don't have the sponsorship to afford to go overseas then they should not have signed up, plain and simple. There is no more difficult for the Koreans to travel than there is for Europeans. Even the vast majority of North Americans would have to fly and reserve hotels unless they live in the general area. The nasl is also far more accommodating than the GSL and has made itself much more of an international league than as well, so it doesn't make sense for all of this criticism of NASL for not doing enough.
If it really comes down to sponsors and the Korean teams can't afford to send their players around then the natural consequence will be the decline of Korean teams and the greater role of foreign teams. Either more and more Korean players will join foreign teams because of the greater opportunity or the Korean teams will become the property of foreign owners. We already see this happening with puma, rain, complexity and fxo.
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On August 15 2011 06:30 Barolt wrote:
NASL receives 'undue hate' because they air their dirty laundry in public every time. Look at organizations like MLG and GSL. How often do you see drama in here with regards to them? That's why I see NASL as a second class league. Even when MLG Dallas was a terrible experience, they gave away free HD, and they catered to their customer as much as possible to try to clean up their reputation.
Using MLG Dallas defeats your own argument because after that fiasco, Sundance came out in public and aired all the 'dirty laundry' regarding what had happened. He explained exactly what the problems were, what caused them and what they were going to do to rectify it. He was very transparent with the fans. Sometimes the laundry needs to be aired out completely, its the only way it will get cleaned.
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On August 15 2011 06:30 Barolt wrote:
NASL receives 'undue hate' because they air their dirty laundry in public every time. Look at organizations like MLG and GSL. How often do you see drama in here with regards to them? That's why I see NASL as a second class league. Even when MLG Dallas was a terrible experience, they gave away free HD, and they catered to their customer as much as possible to try to clean up their reputation.
They aren't supposed to announce that the Korean players will not be participating? Just let people be surprised or something? Or are they supposed to announce it and not give any reason as to why, even though everyone will be asking why? If anything they would look even worse because people would start spreading rumors and guessing.
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EPT
