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Hah. Fans don't give a shit about the governing organizations. They are only a means to protect players. If word leaks that you are not protecting players then you instantly become irrelevant.
Bye SC2con. It's been fun. Hello next ambiguously named organization!
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On August 14 2011 15:19 Sawamura wrote:
I don't like how this is visible at all it could be fabricated lies let's see if you truly wanted to come clean at least show us the messages you receive during all the threats so we know how they man handle in to certain position and over all it's all one sided and everyone has something to say when they are not in front of the person they are talking too . If you are going to talk about P&C than these news should have been kept at low profile and not defaming the other party which is sc2 con without any evidence or so .
I like how you guys paint the picture where foreigners are the good guy and anything korean related are kespa 2.0 keep it up this is probably why there can never be any ventures between the foreign scene and the korean .
Even though every drama-related story lately has changed drastically (sometimes more than once) when the other side is revealed, I would push all my chips in for Boss this time around. After all the strangeness regarding business and everything lately I still have maximum faith in him.
Guess we'll see eh?
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Forget about him. Some people are just delusional.
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Good on you for taking a stand for your players.
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On August 14 2011 14:50 fellcrow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 14:46 TDN3 wrote:On August 14 2011 14:35 Zzoram wrote:On August 14 2011 14:32 TDN3 wrote:
Can anyone explain to me what exactly Kespa did? I didn't follow Broodwar, so I have no idea what happened. I heard that they forced players to practice days and night and stuff like that. What happens if they don't follow and practice 12hr/day but still do good? Do they still get kicked out? Do they take away players earnings? How come people are so scared about them.
I thought every sport organization has some kind of control over players and can fine them if they want. For example, the NFL, MLB, NBA, and NHL all fine their players certain amount of money if they say something that doesn't help the organization's image. I've seen this multiple times. My guess is that Kespa does the same thing. To what extend to they control the players? Kespa doesn't just control SC players right? They're an organization that control the general esport in Korea, including other games? I don't know the whole story but KeSPA didn't seem THAT bad to me. They just disqualified players for typing anything other than "gg" and "pp" and once a guy typed "ppp" because his monitor died, and he got disqualified and the forums went wild. I think they changed the rule after that, but at the time they were just enforcing their own written rules. They also told the Broodwar teams to stop participating in GSL (Broodwar) as well because they didn't want competition for the TV channels. I think I can stand with having rule to type "gg" and "pp" and stuff like that because they want it to have a professional look on TV (I remember QXC typed a whole sentence when he wanted to pause because he didn't know the rule, guess they don't want things like this on TV), but disqualifying is a little bit too far. If they're a different organization to GSL(Broodwar) and competing for audience, then there's nothing wrong with banning players from GSL from competing in their league, right? So, why is there so much bad talk about Kespa on TL forum but I've never seen anyone explain why they're bad You think it should be OK for an organization to say that you CAN'T play in another league if you want to play in ours?!?! That's like GSL and GSTL telling all their players they are not allowed to go to dream hack, NASL, or play in IPL if they want to be part of GSL. It's basically a monopoly. And when you monopolize, crazy shit goes down.
I think this case is different. Kespa and Gomtv case is more like between Google and Yahoo competing for search engine market share. GSL working with foreign tournaments will result in increase revenue for both sides as we've seen on the collaboration between Gomtv and MLG. But, if Kespa and Gomtv are in competition for a fix amount of audience, one of them would come out to be the loser and the other would be a winner.
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On August 14 2011 14:33 Whynaut wrote:
Can we wait for both sides of this story, please, before passing judgment?
Also, I hope this doesn't lead to FXO players being banned from GSL/GSTL. That would be the worst case scenario I can see as a possible outcome.
Normally I would be in full agreement with you but this is too much.
It seems that SC2Con keeps finding itself in these kinds of situations, and several different people who are not aligned with each other are coming out saying similar things.
Threatening? Forcing a team to change it's logo, or else, "X will happen?" I'm speechless. I thought they seemed pushy from what I gathered in the NASL situation, but this is on a level I wasn't expecting.
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On August 14 2011 15:12 Apollo_Shards wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 15:07 TDN3 wrote:On August 14 2011 14:39 mikyaJ wrote:On August 14 2011 14:32 TDN3 wrote:
Can anyone explain to me what exactly Kespa did? I didn't follow Broodwar, so I have no idea what happened. I heard that they forced players to practice days and night and stuff like that. What happens if they don't follow and practice 12hr/day but still do good? Do they still get kicked out? Do they take away players earnings? How come people are so scared about them.
I thought every sport organization has some kind of control over players and can fine them if they want. For example, the NFL, MLB, NBA, and NHL all fine their players certain amount of money if they say something that doesn't help the organization's image. I've seen this multiple times. My guess is that Kespa does the same thing. To what extend to they control the players? Kespa doesn't just control SC players right? They're an organization that control the general esport in Korea, including other games? Yes they did things like set minimum practice hours and essentially code of conduct for players, among other things. They did many good things for esports in Korea, but some notable things they did bad were: -Boycott Gomtv's BW league they made (ie tell players they couldn't play in it or they would have their progaming licenses revoked (which made them able to play in the MSL/OSL/Proleague)), essentially limiting the Korean tournament scene to OSL/MSL/Proleague and occasional special leagues like STX Master's, er hurting Esports. -Defacing NaDa after he switched to SC2 -People don't like them as well because they are strict in their sometimes bureaucratic rules such as pausing without typing pp resulting in disqualifications -Do the players get fined for not having a certain practice hours? About code of conduct, I guess they don't want someone like Idra or CombatEX. I'm fine with that. They tried to be manner and professional. -Boycotting Gomtv's BW is fine to me if they're in competition with Gomtv. Different Organizations or companies competing against each other for TV market. That's just normal. -Well, Nada moving to Gomtv and switching to SC2 would hurt their market share since they're an organization that depends on revenue to feed their employees. Giving Nada bad image is just normal. It happens between foreign players switching teams sometimes. Being an asshole isnt "normal".
Lol, yes it is. Most people trying to have a dominant and powerful business tend to be selfish assholes.
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On August 14 2011 15:20 ensign_lee wrote:
WTF, why does all the drama lately surround this stupid sc2con.
The entire debacle with TSL and Coach Lee.
The unreasonable demands and subsequent rapid withdrawal of korean players from the NASL.
And now this.
...wtf...why do people associate with this association.
I think it all started with EG snatching up Puma and Coach Lee raging and going to sc2con (remember when he said there should be Kespa 2.0 for SC2?) and telling em foreigner teams are not to be trusted business wise O_o. that's my theory anyway.
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On August 14 2011 15:12 Apollo_Shards wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 15:07 TDN3 wrote:On August 14 2011 14:39 mikyaJ wrote:On August 14 2011 14:32 TDN3 wrote:
Can anyone explain to me what exactly Kespa did? I didn't follow Broodwar, so I have no idea what happened. I heard that they forced players to practice days and night and stuff like that. What happens if they don't follow and practice 12hr/day but still do good? Do they still get kicked out? Do they take away players earnings? How come people are so scared about them.
I thought every sport organization has some kind of control over players and can fine them if they want. For example, the NFL, MLB, NBA, and NHL all fine their players certain amount of money if they say something that doesn't help the organization's image. I've seen this multiple times. My guess is that Kespa does the same thing. To what extend to they control the players? Kespa doesn't just control SC players right? They're an organization that control the general esport in Korea, including other games? Yes they did things like set minimum practice hours and essentially code of conduct for players, among other things. They did many good things for esports in Korea, but some notable things they did bad were: -Boycott Gomtv's BW league they made (ie tell players they couldn't play in it or they would have their progaming licenses revoked (which made them able to play in the MSL/OSL/Proleague)), essentially limiting the Korean tournament scene to OSL/MSL/Proleague and occasional special leagues like STX Master's, er hurting Esports. -Defacing NaDa after he switched to SC2 -People don't like them as well because they are strict in their sometimes bureaucratic rules such as pausing without typing pp resulting in disqualifications -Do the players get fined for not having a certain practice hours? About code of conduct, I guess they don't want someone like Idra or CombatEX. I'm fine with that. They tried to be manner and professional. -Boycotting Gomtv's BW is fine to me if they're in competition with Gomtv. Different Organizations or companies competing against each other for TV market. That's just normal. -Well, Nada moving to Gomtv and switching to SC2 would hurt their market share since they're an organization that depends on revenue to feed their employees. Giving Nada bad image is just normal. It happens between foreign players switching teams sometimes. Being an asshole isnt "normal". I'm curious about minimum practice hours as well.
The second point seems reasonable, while I'd agree with you about the last point (if it actually happened)
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On August 14 2011 14:51 vertical101 wrote:im curious why zenex player stop streaming Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 20:15 dala wrote:In this interview with Dong Rae Gu he get a question about streaming. What do you want to say to all those in your fan club that want you to stream again? They are very sad you know. I am sorry, I can't begin streaming again. I belong to the SC2 Association (E/N: this) and they prefer progamers don't stream. Why would the SC2 Association have an opinion on this issue? damnit SC2con ruining esport.
zenex.puzzle just streamed today.
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It seems to me there's a part of the Korean sc2 community which wants to segregate itself from the foreign(everyone else) community... GSL is really excited to get more foreign attention but the teams themselves as a whole, not specific players, are not happy with the way things are going.
It really sucks to see the influx of posts like this. First NASL now FXO is having issues, i mean nobody wins when everyone acts like children.
I play starcraft 2, because i love the game. Why cant big events be about the love of the game, and less about what the players look like....... Racism comes in all shapes and sizes my friends...
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Lord_J
Kenya1085 Posts
Sounds like a good decision. Hopefully things will be worked out and everyone can move on from this unpleasantness.
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Just in case no one has said it:
like a boss.
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SC2 needs a few good businessmen, more like FXOBoss and less like the assholes that heads SC2CON.
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Kespa 2.0 :'[
y they no learn :'[
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Definetely seems like you guys made the right choice. FXO is too big to be bossed around by anyone. FXO and their players should have control over what FXO does, not any other organization.
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Another great decision by FXO!
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SlayerS is the only team that hasn't joined SC2con (yet, or never). I guess BoxeR and Jessica have foreseen what could go wrong, or at least have endless 'issues' with a group like this. I hereby hail the wisdom of the Emperor!
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Read through the thread, was wondering if we as the community could get some actual concrete facts on what specifically SC2Con is. As someone who follows the SC2 scene quite closely and also has a fairly good grasp on business/politics I find myself totally confused by this entire situation. If you could even update the OP with information about SC2con I'm sure many would be appreciative.
I have always had the understanding the SC2Con was started and ran by the coaches/managers of the main teams in the Korean SC2 scene (people like Choya, TheWind, etc. ), but major issues have indicated this isn't quite the case. Who runs this organization? And if teams can simply opt out of it and still compete in major Korean events then what is even the point of it? Do they actually work in conjunction with GomTV? Any light that could be shed on the subject would be amazing, because the past few days we have heard a ton of controversy surrounding SC2Con (TSL incident, NASL incident, and now this ) and I don't think people know exactly what to picture when thinking about/discussing these matters.
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Sc2Con bad is bad.
Good call Boss.
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EPT
