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On August 14 2011 23:48 Probe1 wrote:I opened a website feedback thread when it was unstickied. If you posted your support for the sticky in it I'd appreciate it! Dariusz you remind me of what it was like at launch. EMPing two Protoss armies on Twilight Fortress at my teams ramp and counter pushing all the way to their base. God it was fun back then!
It looks like Hotbid agrees already though?
*edit* ANNNDDD it's back!!
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Yesterday at the Blizzard NA Invitational, JP and Day9 said out of all the games they would recommend there was one ZvZ in the LA invitational. Can someone give me the two players, or even the link of this game?
Thanks.
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On August 10 2011 03:00 bluehunter wrote:
by any chance is DaySG on KR server Day9?? im pretty sure its not but just hopin
I highly doubt Day9 would name a smurf after his original name. One can only hope though ^^.
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Quick question that probably doesn't warrant its own thread: I'm used to my SCVs killing drones 1 on 1 when they get the first hit in. Played a game today where it didn't work. Checked the replay, I definitely do get the first attack in (see picture below) and my SCV is constantly on attack (check in the replay, I select it at some point but nothing else).
I can't understand how this happened to be honest! It's a mystery! Solve it! :D
From Liquipedia - Drone article
Drones are technically as strong as SCVs in worker vs worker battles, meaning that a Drone will win in a straight up fight versus a worker from Protoss and will defeat an SCV provided it attacks first.
SCV health on the left, Drone on the right, both pics always taken at the same time.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/28zqA.png)
LINK TO REPLAY: http://drop.sc/26743
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Which is why Infestors take 3 snipes to kill .....=(
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The SCV did definitely get the first attack off, look at the picture, top row. :p I know there is regeneration but it shouldn't be enough to make the SCV lose when it got the first hit off due to my mathematics and Liquipedia. :D
EDIT: And the zerg player did not micro the drone as you can see in the picture and the replay. Both units are constantly attacking each other.
The math: A drone regenerates 2 HP total when getting attacked by an SCV giving it 42 effective hitpoints. An SCV has 45. Since both units deal 5 damage that means they have essentially the same amount of life - 9 hits. Since both are dealing damage at the same rate (weapon speed 1.5) this means that the unit that gets the first attack off must win. I absolutely got the first attack off (not just by a single frame either, couple of frames) and still lost. This is what is puzzling me!
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Someone make a TheBest fanclub!
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I think it depends on when the damage is actually dealt. Units like stalkers require the animation to finish before they do damage while a sentry deals its damage at the very beginning, with or without animation. The drone may deal damage at the beginning of its animation while the SCV at the end.
Just a theory.
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On August 15 2011 05:27 PopcornColonel wrote:
Yesterday at the Blizzard NA Invitational, JP and Day9 said out of all the games they would recommend there was one ZvZ in the LA invitational. Can someone give me the two players, or even the link of this game?
Thanks.
Probably Catz vs Killer, the game in shakuras.
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On August 13 2011 05:32 SDream wrote:It seems that the bronze ogsnada wasn't fake after all. http://us.battle.net/sc2/pt/profile/1574314/1/oGsNaDa/He was intentionally at bronze in season 2, so he could go 150 wins 0 losses into season 3 till master+. I watched one replay and it really seems to be him, or at least a very skilled player (it's not a hack!!). Nada exploited the ladder system to look even cooler than he already is!! XD Edit: replay here: http://sc2shr.com/cK
Can someone that is a Nada fan look at the replay and tell me what do you think, is this guy the real deal?
KSHolly is a korean descendent and he said he talked to this player after the game and that he typed as if korean was his first language (fast and precise).
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I really hope that MarineKingPrime manages a win today. I wouldn't say he isn't where he deserves to be but a GSL without MKP isn't a GSL at all in my heart.
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On August 15 2011 13:28 Syrupjuice wrote:
I think it depends on when the damage is actually dealt. Units like stalkers require the animation to finish before they do damage while a sentry deals its damage at the very beginning, with or without animation. The drone may deal damage at the beginning of its animation while the SCV at the end.
Just a theory.
There is truth to that theory, unfortunately it's the other way around according to Liquipedia.
From Liquipedia - Drone article
However, in contrast to the attacks of the SCV and Probe, the attack of the Drone has a slight delay in the beginning of the attack animation and the actual damage being dealt.
I really don't get what happened. At this point I can only assume that either there is wrong information in the Liquipedia or a glitch in the game. The former is something that could be rectified easily, the latter would be a bigger deal because there shouldn't be an element of randomness in the game. You should always be able to say: "An SCV always beats a Probe, a drone beats and SCV when getting the first attack off and vice versa". A glitch like that makes predicting the outcome of a worker fight a guessing game.
Any other ideas?
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On August 15 2011 20:20 dkh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2011 13:28 Syrupjuice wrote:
I think it depends on when the damage is actually dealt. Units like stalkers require the animation to finish before they do damage while a sentry deals its damage at the very beginning, with or without animation. The drone may deal damage at the beginning of its animation while the SCV at the end.
Just a theory. There is truth to that theory, unfortunately it's the other way around according to Liquipedia. From Liquipedia - Drone articleShow nested quote +
However, in contrast to the attacks of the SCV and Probe, the attack of the Drone has a slight delay in the beginning of the attack animation and the actual damage being dealt.
I really don't get what happened. At this point I can only assume that either there is wrong information in the Liquipedia or a glitch in the game. The former is something that could be rectified easily, the latter would be a bigger deal because there shouldn't be an element of randomness in the game. You should always be able to say: "An SCV always beats a Probe, a drone beats and SCV when getting the first attack off and vice versa". A glitch like that makes predicting the outcome of a worker fight a guessing game. Any other ideas?
The drone was following your scv to attack, so it would make sense that the drone attacked first. In the replay I couldn't see that same thing that you screenshot, so I don't know how you were able to screenshot the milisecond where the scv supposedly hit first, but I think that if there is a bug, the bug is in the screenshot/replay, the drone does seem to have hit first.
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If you set the replay speed to normal (slowest speed possible) and spam the P button to pause and unpause the replay you can get close to seeing it happen frame by frame. That way I was able to find a couple of frames in the game/replay where my SCV was still at full 45 health and his drone already at 35, meaning that the SCV attacked first. That's what the top row of my picture above shows as well.
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Using the editor i discovered that there is a random delay (like the delay for the stalker attack) before any attack: it is a random value between +0.125 and -0.0625. This is probably the cause of this "bug".
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On August 16 2011 04:48 nocrA wrote:
Using the editor i discovered that there is a random delay (like the delay for the stalker attack) before any attack: it is a random value between +0.125 and -0.0625. This is probably the cause of this "bug".
This probably has to do somewhat with latency of both players. Maybe if you look at the zerg replay you might see that he indeed hit first, but the lag of the terran made it seems, in the replay, that the scv hit first.
Something like that?
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On August 16 2011 14:13 SDream wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 04:48 nocrA wrote:
Using the editor i discovered that there is a random delay (like the delay for the stalker attack) before any attack: it is a random value between +0.125 and -0.0625. This is probably the cause of this "bug". This probably has to do somewhat with latency of both players. Maybe if you look at the zerg replay you might see that he indeed hit first, but the lag of the terran made it seems, in the replay, that the scv hit first. Something like that?
I don't think that latency affects replays (can anyone confirm?).
Anyway, i checked the replay and the drone attacked just some milliseconds after the SCV and probably the Zerg got lucky with the random delay, especially in the last attack.
If you watch carefully it you can see that the SCV started the attack that would have killed the drone before the drone but the drone hit first. As a matter of fact the random delay doesn't affect the animation of the attack but just the moment in which the damage is dealt.
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Wow, first of all, thanks for finding out!
Second of all, I have never heard of this random delay before attacks anywhere, is this a new information to the Starcraft community at large?
I hate to sound overly dramatic but this is kinda groundbreaking. We would need to check if this affects other unit combos (apart from mirrors, like Stalker vs. Stalker in PvP) as well! I presume that the chance that the unit that attacks earlier loses is very small as people would have found out about this earlier but still.
Now, I personally don't understand why they would put in something random like that into the game at Blizzard at ALL. This completely breaks Starcraft for me! When I scout a Zerg with an SCV I want to know, will I be able to kill his drone or not one on one. Right now, chances are good I will kill his drone when I attack first but I can't rely on it. This is like if chess had a figure that when you kill it with one of your pieces there would be a chance yours would get killed too. Gamebreaking imho.
Any other opinions/insight?
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EPT
