EPTeSports: A Short History of Nearly Everything - Page 16
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vitruvia
Canada235 Posts
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meegrean
Thailand7699 Posts
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DND_Enkil
Sweden598 Posts
On August 02 2011 09:13 Micket wrote: Wow, didn't realize so many games were so big. However, I gotta ask, were these people actually proper pro gamers, to the extent of sc bw pros. I know about fatal1ty and all, but I've also heard statements such as "true progaming doesn't exist outside of Korea." from the sound of this history lesson, this wasn't true at all. But I want to ask anyway. Also, I've been brainwashed by the casting of artosis and tasteless about how starcraft is the most difficult and has the best players in general in gaming and how the mastery reached by players like flash and jaedong is beyond anything of another player of another esport. I want to know whether these other games were just as hard as starcraft and how much dedication each person actually had. Were people in training houses practicing 14 hours a day? There where and still are full-time pro gamers for other games than starcraft. As far as dedication i belive they rival that of Korean BW pros when they practise as most, might argue that BW scene has held together longer but you would need someone with a real insight into the top top CS scene to answer that. As for most difficult game that has always made me cringe a bit, like when a F1 rally commentator says that F1 is the most difficult sport there is. It begs the question: Based on what? SC:BW is increadibly demanding from a APM standpoint, while in CS you talk about aim instead. Completely different skillsets. And one is a shooter and a teamgame, other is RTS and 1v1. | ||
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bokchoi
Korea (South)9498 Posts
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D.Devil
Germany227 Posts
On August 01 2011 22:42 hellgoat wrote: Nice read. I remember you from the W:ET community where you had a short stint. If I recall correctly you were sporting a ukrainian flag back then. Would've loved some mention of that game. Quakecon has had a couple of pretty big tournaments featuring the game, as well as RtCW. Though I guess coming from that community myself bias can't be ruled out :p Oh man, Enemy Territory used to be so great, haha. It's how I got introduced to competitive gaming. Yes, I've had an Ukrainian citizenship until I turned 18 (even played for the Ukrainian ET national team, lol). Well yeah, as much as I enjoyed ET, I don't feel there's anything I can write about it. QuakeCon games were great, but all I could mention is their outcome, and as you can see I tried to avoid just listing tournament results. On August 02 2011 02:11 Synapze wrote: How inflated was the wc3 salaries? I played a lot of wc3 but I never really looked into stuff like that.. was WC3 really that big? Of course, the WC3 salary story was more complex than it might seem at a first glance. Organizations weren't blindly throwing too much money at WC3, but there were several relevant factors. First of all, many WC3 tournaments especially in China became limited to a small amount of invited players and the ones that weren't regularly invited to such events were screwed. This was also the time when WC3 started to become smaller instead of growing further (also linked to the fact that SC2 would eventually replace it), and of course the financial crisis contributed to it strongly. In August 2008, Michal 'Carmac' Blicharz, full-time writer for SK Gaming at that time, wrote an article about it. Excerpt: "The monthly wages that players want to receive are between $500 for players that never win anything and above $5,000 for the good ones. If you want to have the absolute superstar team, then you need to be prepared to pay over $15,000 each month. Or closer to $30,000 if you are willing to believe the crazier rumours that go around." On August 02 2011 09:13 Micket wrote: Wow, didn't realize so many games were so big. However, I gotta ask, were these people actually proper pro gamers, to the extent of sc bw pros. I know about fatal1ty and all, but I've also heard statements such as "true progaming doesn't exist outside of Korea." from the sound of this history lesson, this wasn't true at all. But I want to ask anyway. Also, I've been brainwashed by the casting of artosis and tasteless about how starcraft is the most difficult and has the best players in general in gaming and how the mastery reached by players like flash and jaedong is beyond anything of another player of another esport. I want to know whether these other games were just as hard as starcraft and how much dedication each person actually had. Were people in training houses practicing 14 hours a day? People who say that true pro-gaming only exists in South Korea have pretty high standards for what they consider progaming. Of course, South Korea is leading in terms of professionalism, esports is part of its culture and everything – and the rigid training schedules of SC:BW pro-teams are unmatched. But it's less ahead than many people say, and interestingly, not only hardcore SC:BW fans, but also Western fans who were taught it from PR-focused interviews and articles (noone ever gets tired of mentioning how big esports is in South Korea). Yes, there were and are plenty of full-time players outside of Korea. The thing is just, most of them don't make a big deal about it, so there's no real list or anything. Some teams also consist of both full-time players and students – actually, quite many top players officially go to university but only invest very little time into their studies. But yeah, SK, fnatic, Na`Vi, mTw, etc. all make a living off Counter-Strike just like Grubby, ToD, HoT and others used to play WC3 full-time. Quake was also played by full-time players other than Fatal1ty. As in regards of mastery, this is really hard to compare. For instance, some people say SC2 will never be mastered in the same way as SC:BW was because the game requires less mechanics. Anyway, I think most people will agree that the level of competition is insanely high in Western esports, as well. Also if this is in fact the real Lindsey Sporrer (which I have no reason to believe), this is now the sexiest thread on all of TL. | ||
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Crushgroove
United States793 Posts
I know what you meant, but with this being such a fantastically big issue of contention between blizz and the esports community you could have chosen a different term. | ||
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Samp
Canada783 Posts
I remember that time when 3D went with CGS....ehhh.. | ||
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LAN-f34r
New Zealand2099 Posts
Thank you. | ||
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monx
Canada1400 Posts
I remember first hearing about E-sports when Guillaume "Grrrr..." Patry won the OSL. Well i just remember that i saw it on TV and was amazed you could get paid to play video games. I am just sad it didn't push to follow the SC:BW scene at that time. I lurked on TL a few years later but never registered until last year. Shame on me. Anyway, hope you make a longer version out of this. | ||
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goaga
Romania36 Posts
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TheRidd
713 Posts
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Zoler
Sweden6339 Posts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Hoang The guy earned a total of ~46755 dollars. | ||
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MCDayC
United Kingdom14464 Posts
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Micket
United Kingdom2163 Posts
MLG even dropped Brawl mainly because they were forced to DQ the top 2 seeds for match fixing (they chose to split the prize money, and so didn't play serious). You talk about Ken Hoang but did you know his brother organised a huge tournament, took all the attendance fees and ran off with the money? Ken isn't condemned for this act, but no one knows whether he was part of it or not. Basically, a general lack of professionalism. (the current best player at melee is banned on smashboards and this isn't even like Idra ban) | ||
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Spitfire
South Africa442 Posts
I am one of those guilty of acting like western E-sports has only been around since SC II came out. I've always loved gaming, but competitive gaming seemed some far off thing. All I knew about it was that the Koreans owned everybody and counter-strike was involved. Then in 2009 I started following Pro Brood War in Korea, but I still had no idea about the western e-sports scene. So its good to have it all laid out in an article like this. Excellent work. | ||
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Nonnar
Sweden50 Posts
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sVnteen
Germany2238 Posts
especially since i am relatively new to the e-sports community big ♥ for writing this | ||
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Anchen
United States31 Posts
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D.Devil
Germany227 Posts
On August 02 2011 23:43 Zoler wrote: I'm dissapointed you didn't mention Ken "SephirothKen" Hoang. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Hoang The guy earned a total of ~46755 dollars. That's not even that much; quite a few professional CS, WC3 and Quake players have winnings in the six-digit $ area throughout their careers. On August 03 2011 01:24 Anchen wrote: Might want to mention some stuff from the Brood War History threads, I think they are still around on TL. Mainly that the Blizzard ladder tournies used to be the biggest "pro" tournies, until PGL/CPL/Various korean leagues popped up. Not sure how much you would want to get into details, but it is the PGL and blizzard tournies that started Grrr toward Korea and going pro. I consider adding more stuff about SC:BW in Korea, but rather about its prime, not its beginnings. | ||
tofucake
Hyrule19182 Posts
Nice writeup ^^ | ||
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