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On August 03 2011 01:54 D.Devil wrote:
I consider adding more stuff about SC:BW in Korea, but rather about its prime, not its beginnings.
Shrug, up to you, it's your post, but if you are going to label something as the history of esports, especially the formation of KESPA, the leagues that led up to it, Blizzard's own tournies back when they used to have them, etc, starting at the beginning, but the prime stuff is good too.
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If you can link me to content about the creation of KeSPA, I'll be glad to mention it in a separate entry. I just can't cover everything.
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awesome write up I hope more people read all of this
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tyty, i always read up on old esports stuff when it seems interesting, and i always hear a lot of figure heads in sc2 (DJWheat.... all the time  ) talk about the old days. I may not be an old timer myself (although i did watch some pro smash bros melee and played some online MLG brawl. i know, not too old) but i sure can talk like one xD
One thing i was reading about when i was looking up Nal_ra, is that he had a rival series with savior that fans reffered to as "the holy wars" (i think). so even though that seems pretty random, i mention it because it sounds epic and i hope sc2 reaches huge rivalries with names like legendary battles ^^
again ty
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Read it all, awesome. Following pro gaming since 2003! It's weird that that is considered such a long time. Cheers to the old fogies of eSports.
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Katowice25012 Posts
On August 02 2011 09:13 Micket wrote:
Wow, didn't realize so many games were so big. However, I gotta ask, were these people actually proper pro gamers, to the extent of sc bw pros. I know about fatal1ty and all, but I've also heard statements such as "true progaming doesn't exist outside of Korea." from the sound of this history lesson, this wasn't true at all. But I want to ask anyway.
Also, I've been brainwashed by the casting of artosis and tasteless about how starcraft is the most difficult and has the best players in general in gaming and how the mastery reached by players like flash and jaedong is beyond anything of another player of another esport. I want to know whether these other games were just as hard as starcraft and how much dedication each person actually had. Were people in training houses practicing 14 hours a day?
This is a really interesting question that people rarely approach correctly. Yes, progamers have existed forever. Todd Rogers was being paid thousands a month in 1980, Thresh was making money solely through gaming in 1996, there are tons of people paying their rent based on their performance in games and in that sense they are professional gamers. They have existed and will continue to exist as long as games are around.
That being said, nothing (currently or in the past) can compare to Korea's industry. Korea is the only place on Earth where it exists nearly in tandem with how traditional sports are run and operated. You're not going to find any other competitive game that has full time training houses for B-team members who don't play in tournaments. It's very much like baseball in that regard -- there are people who spend years learning fundamentals before they move up to the big leagues (on 12+ hr/day schedules). I absolutely love that aspect, there are so many elements to your game that you get to see people develop and it takes them absurdly long periods of time to get it all right. In that regard Korea's BW scene is incredible unique, SC2 still can't match that kind of regiment required to be the very best (though it is getting there).
That isn't to say other games are easier or less worthwhile, it's much more a matter of infrastructure and industry size, though we here at TL like to pretend it has to do with the game itself. Being very good at any game takes a lot of time and dedication, probably about the same amount. Fatal1ty was incredible because he realized he needed to practice 12 hours a day long before anyone else did, you can see this in the MTV documentary about him where they show repeated clips of him saying "sorry can't talk gotta practice. practice, practice, practice, thats all I have". He was the absolute unquestionable best of his era because of it.
All in all it comes down to how you personally view progaming. Myself, I prefer the crazy regiment of BW progaming as "the test of real sports" but I can understand why people feel that is too extreme.
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Well written! A few points were missing, but you already explained that. Great work!
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Great write up! I learned a lot
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On August 02 2011 06:26 LindseySporrer wrote:
Excellent! Thank you
Lindsey!!!! Welcome to TL.net !!
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Thanks for putting this together! Great read. I'm about halfway through and you didn't leave anything big out.
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On August 02 2011 09:13 Micket wrote:
Wow, didn't realize so many games were so big. However, I gotta ask, were these people actually proper pro gamers, to the extent of sc bw pros. I know about fatal1ty and all, but I've also heard statements such as "true progaming doesn't exist outside of Korea." from the sound of this history lesson, this wasn't true at all. But I want to ask anyway.
Also, I've been brainwashed by the casting of artosis and tasteless about how starcraft is the most difficult and has the best players in general in gaming and how the mastery reached by players like flash and jaedong is beyond anything of another player of another esport. I want to know whether these other games were just as hard as starcraft and how much dedication each person actually had. Were people in training houses practicing 14 hours a day?
The best counter-strike players back in the day (~2002) did practice a lot, HeatoN and Potti for instance did not have jobs but lived solely of gaming which meant they practiced pretty much full time. However, since there were no leagues and events were fewer and farther between teams took more breaks. The top teams used to gather a couple of weeks before a major event and hold a bootcamp where they did nothing but practice. Then after the events it was possible to have a couple of weeks off.
One of the few things that I missed in this great write-up was the fact that CPL had quite a few events in Europe from 2000 to 2003/2004. Here are the results from CPL Cannes 2003 for instance:
http://www.cyberfight.org/site/coverage/40/
Edit: For those interested in old school q3 results I just googled and found this page:
http://www.angelfire.com/me4/joeyadonis/5-q3-99-01.html#elsa
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Great write up! This was great to read at job, took me only 3days on my smartphone :D
+ Show Spoiler +only had time to read at break time
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Nice little read, I always wondered where it all started ^_^
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On August 03 2011 01:59 Anchen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 01:54 D.Devil wrote:
I consider adding more stuff about SC:BW in Korea, but rather about its prime, not its beginnings. Shrug, up to you, it's your post, but if you are going to label something as the history of esports, especially the formation of KESPA, the leagues that led up to it, Blizzard's own tournies back when they used to have them, etc, starting at the beginning, but the prime stuff is good too.
To be fair, he only brushed over the origins of the other games structured leagues as well. Not a problem for me, this thing is a trove of information as it is. I think all that might be better suited to a history of SC:BW specifically, that sounds bad ass TBH, maybe you can write it ^^.
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Not only was it a good read, it is home of the funniest ban trap I've ever seen.
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only mentioning halo 2 times?
its the reason there is esport in north america
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On August 04 2011 10:28 rza wrote:
only mentioning halo 2 times?
its the reason there is esport in north america
no, SC2 is
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EPT
