EPTSeason 3 Ladder Map Changes (Official) - Page 17
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
Sqq
Norway2023 Posts
| ||
|
Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On July 26 2011 07:59 flowSthead wrote: Travis, I brought this up earlier, but why can't blizzard reach out to the community for maps? I personally don't have a particularly nuanced opinion on the new versus old map pool, being neither good enough to tell the difference nor having access to the statistics. But wouldn't having the community (whether that be TL, or just general Battle Net) submitting and voting on maps help in terms of making people happy and choosing cool maps? In what way does it make sense for Blizzard to do this themselves when we lack the information they have for the maps they pick? I don't know man, it sure would be awesome. Maybe there is some mapmaker guy at blizzard who is constantly lobbying not to lose his job haha | ||
|
Creep
United States229 Posts
Since all my vetoes are now freed up, if there are any problems with the new maps I can just veto them easily. No way all four maps are terrible, so I'm all good. | ||
|
Arkias1002
United States32 Posts
| ||
|
Yew
United States940 Posts
 | ||
|
The KY
United Kingdom6252 Posts
I'll miss you Metal, don't stay away too long. P.S. I look forward to trying the new maps, even if they look a bit samey from the screenshots. | ||
|
marttorn
Norway5211 Posts
On July 26 2011 08:01 Sina92 wrote: Why not just remove close spots on meta??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Why not just use one question mark as opposed to spamming them? | ||
|
W2
United States1177 Posts
| ||
|
Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
On July 26 2011 08:00 blade55555 wrote: My guess is that close positions is what keeps the ladder balance closer to 50% so that's why they kept it in anyway. But that would be an awful way to have a balanced map that depends on what position you spawn so if that truly were the case then it's good they removed it.Where else would it be then? If its tournament play, then they are lying their asses off. And point being ladder is a bad place to get statistics never said it favored zerg, just said it would include close positions. So lets say hypothetically it was a 60% win rate for zerg with close positions, without it lets say it would rise to 80%. That would be good to know if it were somehow like that even though its not even close. There's no way it's not from tournaments, and just because their pool of tournaments isn't the same as TLs it doesn't mean it's not as good a statistic. I'm guessing they use GSL and some other major tournaments around the world rather than small 100 dollar cups. If it were off ladder, just by looking at the terran domination at the top of Korea I'd guess the changes would be much different. | ||
|
knyttym
United States5797 Posts
I wish we could petition for a damn change in the map selections though. Thumbs up process + 20 maps would suit everyone. Hell I wouldn't even care if Blizz had 15 rush maps for noobies that are intimidated by small maps. I would just play the other 5. | ||
|
Nazeron
Canada1046 Posts
| ||
|
MrMotionPicture
United States4327 Posts
I hope these new maps are good... | ||
|
Zedders
Canada450 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + In Season 3, we’re introducing a number of changes to the map pool; we’re dropping some older maps, and adding a number of new ones. One of the more notable changes we’re making is the removal of Metalopolis. We realize that this is quite a popular map, and we wanted to discuss the reasons why we might make such a change and hopefully lay some of your concerns to rest. We also would like to point out that merely because a map has been removed from the pool, does not mean that it will never make a return in the future. Despite its flaws, Metalopolis has strong potential to be a map that returns in future ladder seasons. Still, there are reasons why we decided to retire Metalopolis for now: Metalopolis has been around for quite a long time, over a year including beta. We felt that taking it out of the rotation would make some room for variety in the map pool. Metalopolis suffers balance issues when close spawn positions occur, but becomes too predictable when they are simply disabled. Close positions have been under a lot of discussion lately, and we’re definitely examining better options to allow for random spawn positions across the map pool without also creating too much predictability and vulnerability to proxy rushes. Overall balance has also proven to be an issue on Metalopolis -- even factoring in close position spawn issues. It’s among the least balanced maps currently in the ladder pool, and along with Scrap Station (also being removed) and Tal’darim Altar, has a heavy (60%+) bias toward zerg at the highest levels of play. If Metalopolis makes a return to the ladder pool in the future, it will likely receive some balance tinkering, much like that administered to Lost Temple which resulted in the creation of Shattered Temple. In the meantime, we hope that you enjoy the fresh maps that have been added to the ladder pool in Season 3. I don't actually mind the removal of metalopolis and they gave excellent reasons. But I'd rather they not mention imbalance at the highest levels of play, considering this only really affects 99% of the sc2 population. I know I know, epsorts etc I'm hurting it.....But I think that catering the laddering experience to imbalances at the highest level of play are vastly irrelevant compared to the people in bronze-master. Now if they're like it's imbalanced across leagues then it's gotta go, but otherwise I think that all leagues should be put into consideration as well. That being said: As an esports fan I'm all for catering ladder maps to the GM skill lvl by all means, I want to see the best in GM represent their skill with ladder points. As a player I'm sad to see meta go, but eagerly await its return (maybe without close pos :D?) | ||
|
Olsson
Sweden931 Posts
| ||
|
Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On July 26 2011 08:04 Itsmedudeman wrote: My guess is that close positions is what keeps the ladder balance closer to 50% so that's why they kept it in anyway. But that would be an awful way to have a balanced map that depends on what position you spawn so if that truly were the case then it's good they removed it. There's no way it's not from tournaments, and just because their pool of tournaments isn't the same as TLs it doesn't mean it's not as good a statistic. I'm guessing they use GSL and some other major tournaments around the world rather than small 100 dollar cups. If it were off ladder, just by looking at the terran domination at the top of Korea I'd guess the changes would be much different. I would guess it's from GM play or from GM and Master play. Probably just from GM. Ladder play is an objective way of measuring, and it would make sense for blizzard to be balancing their ladder maps for ladder play. | ||
|
PlosionCornu
Italy814 Posts
On July 26 2011 07:59 flowSthead wrote: Travis, I brought this up earlier, but why can't blizzard reach out to the community for maps? I personally don't have a particularly nuanced opinion on the new versus old map pool, being neither good enough to tell the difference nor having access to the statistics. But wouldn't having the community (whether that be TL, or just general Battle Net) submitting and voting on maps help in terms of making people happy and choosing cool maps? In what way does it make sense for Blizzard to do this themselves when we lack the information they have for the maps they pick? Is the community collectively a professional game designer, that has to find a connection point between your average 10 apm bronze leaguer and nestea? No. Their actions seem illogical to us, because we (tl) are fairly hardcore and high lever players, compared to the average joe supercasual. Maybe, according to their stats, that we don't have, it makes sense to act in such a way. It's just an issue of perspective. | ||
|
Juddas
768 Posts
Where am I going to do my Monobattles | ||
|
skatbone
United States1005 Posts
On July 26 2011 07:58 IntoTheEmo wrote: Noo, how is High Orbit and Toxic Slums being kept in, awful 2s map with no close expansion and rocks at the closest one, and the massive cheesefest 4s map. I'm going to miss Typhon, had some awesome macro games on that... damn... Questionable decisions regarding the 1v1 maps, good thing I don't play that. Yes! Someone else mentioning Typhon! My lower-league friends learned how to macro playing 3v3s on that map. Too bad. I'm in agreement with Travis, though: it's too early to cast judgment of the quality of the season 3 map pool. The opinions of those who have speculated or played on the ptr doesn't do enough to convince me. And yes, removing close spawns would seem like a more rational and potentially consistent method to deal with imbalances on maps like Metal. I am heartened that Blizz has acknowledged close spawns as a legitimate concern. Over the past month, people have been flaming Browder (with some good reason) for seeming taken aback when Sen mentioned the frustration of close spawns. TL;DR I will miss Typhon on Metal, but I'm interested in some change-for-change sake and Blizz DID magically remove my 3 veto maps. I find it heartening that Blizzard is ADMITTING that the community has close spawn concerns. | ||
|
SCPenguin
United States19 Posts
I just hope tournaments will keep it in their map pool which I'm sure they will. | ||
|
Ryzu
United States369 Posts
On July 26 2011 08:06 Olsson wrote: Zerg is just getting worse with this new map pool -.- So you've played the new maps then? | ||
| ||
