The Starcraft elite is akin to a pantheon of ancient Gods. In the beginning we had but one, he was the dealer of fruit, Kim Won Ki, The FruitDealer
This man was the hero of Starcraft after the first month of release.
But after the Aeon of Strife that was the first few GSL seasons, Kim Won Ki had fallen from grace, and then the clear best players of their races revealed themselves. They were so far ahead of their peers it was outrageous, they were the gods of Starcraft 2. They were:
Several months ago, these players were unquestionably the greatest champions of there races. Now, however their dominance has fallen under question. Only Nestea remains as the unquestioned king of his race. Are these players still the best? Maybe, but there are new faces that have risen to the top. The pantheon has fallen under attack in the last two months, and the heroes responsible for this attack are blazing their own glorious trail through Starcraft 2 history.
So let's look at a few of these brave heroes from each race, and hopefully, take a glimpse into the future of Starcraft 2.
Terran
Terran currently is the strongest race as far as GSL results. They have established pillars among them, but some new blood has entered the ranks. Bomber, MVP, MarineKing, and a few others have been dominating since the start of the new year. Recently, newer Terrans have been getting some pretty high results. These new warriors' futures are bright in SC2
sCfOu is the rising star of Terran with the best results so far. This young terran made his debut with the rest of the fOu roster in the GSL Open Season 3. He beat Lyn 2-1 before losing to FruitDealer in a close series 1-2. He made it from code A to code S on his first try, but we didn't really notice how good this young gun is until GSL May. Since his deep run in that tournament, very nearly eliminating a rampaging Nestea, sC has been on fire. Already dubbed a top five terran in the world by Artosis the sky is the limit for this guy.
The Closet Gosu:
PoltPrime Many would see this recent champion as the the crown prince of Terran. He may well be, but commitments to university have hampered his skill level. But as the Super Tournament has shown us, whenever this guy gets a break from his university he is a beast. Oh, and he most likely has the best T v P on the planet, period.
The Emperor's Apprentice: MMA What can you say about this guy? Admittedly his T v P is weak when compared to his other matchups. His multitasking, medivac play, and game sense are his strengths. He is the ace of SlayerS one of the best teams in the world. He is in a bit of a slump recently, but we cannot expect him to stay in it for too long.
The Monster: PuMa This guy is good. Really good. We haven't seen too much of him yet, but his recent performances have been dominant. Winning iCCup Korean Weekly's and scoring multiple kills in the Team League, along with some of the biggest Artosis hype in a long time. Just watch his games against Prime. He walked through MarineKing and Polt like they weren't there. If this beast can get over his nerve issues, he could be unstoppable.
Protoss
Protoss has only ever been ruled by one man. oGsMC has defined Protoss play in every matchup ever since his unstoppable run in GSL Open Season 3. Often times his brilliant play has made former gods of Protoss like TesteR and Genius look like droopy eyed armless children. But, recently Protosses, even MC, have been relying on 2-3 base all ins and timings to get results and showing hesitancy to engage in a macro game. However a new wave of Protosses have invaded the GSL, their play is new and fresh, and they are poised to take their place in the pantheon of SC2 champions.
Remember this guy? Yeah you do. It's Alicia! In many ways this guy sparked the Protoss revolution in Korea. And it was love at first sight for Artosis. His first claim to fame was ousting MVP out of Code S and seizing his spot. He was the last Protoss alive in the Super Tournament. His P v P micro is perfect, his P v T might be the best in Korea with cool and innovative build, and his P v Z is based on passive macro instead of all ins and timings. This guy may well be the future of Protoss, he could even already be there.
The Mysterious Mastermind:
Sage, the Captain of NsHoSeo, was pretty much completely unknown until he came out against the fOu team. The following four games were the coolest, smartest, most dominant Protoss performances witnessed in a very long time. Harassment all over the map, baiting and then destroying drops, keeping a Terran contained on one base for an ENTIRE game. This guy is out of control smart. He is the king of scouting, and will undoubtedly be a force to reckon with in the future.
A New Beast:
This guy, like Bomber and DongRaeGu before him, has long been talked up as an amazing gosu player. Puzzle first made it into code A this season, and has dominated in every match. He ripped apart MMA with great dark templar harass. He beat Sheth handedly in game one, and won in a normally un-winnable situation in game 2 with some incredible blink micro. 500 APM throughout the attack, nuff said. The sky is the limit for this guy.
Zerg
The undisputed king of zerg is Nestea, and unlike MVP and MC, his grip is not loosening on the throne. For a long time, LosirA, the apprentice of Nestea, has been the only other zerg to display dominant play near the same level of the master himself. But recently a bevy of zergs have begun to figure out how to play styles that combats the other races effectively. They come from surprising places, not from the institutions of SC2 in Korea. Though they may not have the raw intelligence of their king these zergs are going to flood the ranks of the GSL and bring balance to the results.
DongRaeGu is the best zerg not named Nestea on the planet. This guy might have the best Z v T on the planet, and his mechanics are absolutely ridiculous. MVP is a funny team, it's full of lovable goofballs who tend to play in a non standard way. DRG is certainly a lovable goofball with tons of personality, but he dwarfs his teammates in skill. Everything from his multitasking to his macro is so ridiculously smooth. His play is incredibly scary to watch.
A Revolutionary
Banelings? Who needs them? Certainly not this new gosu from Zenex. Line is the pioneer of the new and exciting style of only muta ling in Z v T. Is he invincible? Cetainly not, sometimes his tactics are confusing. His willingness to sac an expansion is befuddling. But his ideas on how to play the game are brilliant. This guy came out of nowhere and counter attacked and magic-boxed his way to the quarter finals of the Super Tournament. It is impossible to tell what is in store for this guy, but it certainly could be greatness.
The Undercover Killer
Another ZeNex zerg? Yep, this guy is really good, and he gets no credit. CoCa dominates his Protoss opponents like no other Korean zerg has so far. His games against Alicia were incredibly impressive. Dropping, counter-attacking, and fungaling his way to victory. Like his teammate Line he is somewhat of a specialist with is vs Protoss by far his best matchup. His hyper aggressive style is a treat to watch, and his future is bright.
These brave champions have risen to challenge the thrones of the masters of their races, and many of them may overtake them in the future. The current pantheon is not safe. As the game evolves and changes the battle will continue to determine who the gods and men of the battlefield truly are.
Nice post, I'm sort of sad to see MVP lose his role as the king of Terran, but I guess it can't be helped. I sincerely hopes he gets it back though, but it's still sort of unclear who the best Terran is at the moment.
I don't think you should count NaDa out as a candidate for the new face of sc2 Terran. Like Polt, he is currently out of university, and we all know what NaDa is capable of when he is able to devote his full attention the game. But I'm still hoping for BoxeR to make a huge comeback. ^^
As far as Z and P are concerned, I don't think Nestea is going to be dethroned for a while yet, and Alicia is a safe bet for the next big Protoss player.
On July 06 2011 04:41 Aldehyde wrote: Who is the third protoss? You don't say his nick anywhere and I haven't been following the GSL very closely lately.
It's Puzzle I just edited it, thanks for noticing.
On July 06 2011 04:41 Aldehyde wrote: Who is the third protoss? You don't say his nick anywhere and I haven't been following the GSL very closely lately.
Puzzle.
Honestly, I think foreign P's are approaching top caliber though, with Huk and Nani
MC is still the only korean protoss to put up results, and huk has been doing well outside of korea but MC's accomplishments still dwarf his in comparison, and MC did win a major tournament recently. He is still the president toss IMO.
Very cool read, thank you! Being a Protoss player myself but not particularly amazed by MC's play (even though I agree he is still the best), I'm really curious and interested to see if the Protoss you mentioned are going to confirm their current strength!
I think Mc is still on the top, his play still seems very good and he shows good results, unlike MVP, who was very dominant at season 4, won an easier tournament and has since dissapeared.
On July 06 2011 04:49 Mr.Brightside wrote: Interesting read, i have been thinking a lot about this lately since MC and MVP have not been performing at a level that people would expect of them.
MC in the past month 1st in Stars war tournament 3rd at homestory and columbus.
It's a testament to MC's absolute dominance at his peak when that's considered not doing well
I don't think MC really has any competition. Alicia is really the only other protoss who has been performing consistently, but I wouldn't put him near MC.
On July 06 2011 04:41 Aldehyde wrote: Who is the third protoss? You don't say his nick anywhere and I haven't been following the GSL very closely lately.
Puzzle.
Honestly, I think foreign P's are approaching top caliber though, with Huk and Nani
I agree the korean protoss line isnt that compelling. People should have a look at HwangSin also.
puma is definitely a top korean terran. i had the misfortune of playing him in iccup weekly tourney and it was like playing select on roids with constant drops every 10 seconds + macro
On July 06 2011 05:13 Lewan72 wrote: MC+Alicia for protoss , though I think huk deserves 3rd place, not puzzle. Nestea+Losira+Dongraegu for zerg Way to many pro terrans to name lol
I understand the HuK bias being a foreigner and a huge fan myself. But, I'm not ready to give him that high of credit yet. He had a relatively unimpressive code A run, and hasn't done exceedingly well in Code S yet. If he takes down his group, then definitely deserves to be on here. Puzzle has just impressed me greatly so far.
On July 06 2011 05:13 Lewan72 wrote: MC+Alicia for protoss , though I think huk deserves 3rd place, not puzzle. Nestea+Losira+Dongraegu for zerg Way to many pro terrans to name lol
I understand the HuK bias being a foreigner and a huge fan myself. But, I'm not ready to give him that high of credit yet. He had a relatively unimpressive code A run, and hasn't done exceedingly well in Code S yet. If he takes down his group, then definitely deserves to be on here. Puzzle has just impressed me greatly so far.
Couldn't agree more, BTW all these "up and comers" are on the Korean weekly almost every week if you want to see some ridiculous play.
On July 06 2011 05:13 Lewan72 wrote: MC+Alicia for protoss , though I think huk deserves 3rd place, not puzzle. Nestea+Losira+Dongraegu for zerg Way to many pro terrans to name lol
I understand the HuK bias being a foreigner and a huge fan myself. But, I'm not ready to give him that high of credit yet. He had a relatively unimpressive code A run, and hasn't done exceedingly well in Code S yet. If he takes down his group, then definitely deserves to be on here. Puzzle has just impressed me greatly so far.
Yes lots of people are bised to Huk for being a foreigner, but I usually root for the koreans haha. Huk gets to train in korea with the oGs team and get mentored by MC, best toss in the world. Add that on to 1st place homestory, 1st place dreamhack, and Code S title i think it beats puzzle's Code A run this year.
On July 06 2011 05:13 Lewan72 wrote: MC+Alicia for protoss , though I think huk deserves 3rd place, not puzzle. Nestea+Losira+Dongraegu for zerg Way to many pro terrans to name lol
I understand the HuK bias being a foreigner and a huge fan myself. But, I'm not ready to give him that high of credit yet. He had a relatively unimpressive code A run, and hasn't done exceedingly well in Code S yet. If he takes down his group, then definitely deserves to be on here. Puzzle has just impressed me greatly so far.
Couldn't agree more, BTW all these "up and comers" are on the Korean weekly almost every week if you want to see some ridiculous play.
I know it makes me soooo happy that that tournament exists. The play is AMAZING everyone go watch it!
If anyone listened to what tyler said in yest SoTG, its clear that you might be the best player in the world, but that doesnt necessarily materialize into winning tournaments. For that you need a good luck too. Consistency is the key, and MC is consistent with his results, so he is still the BOSS TOSS!!
On July 06 2011 05:09 KawaiiRice wrote: puma is definitely a top korean terran. i had the misfortune of playing him in iccup weekly tourney and it was like playing select on roids with constant drops every 10 seconds + macro
Being Flash's TvT practice partner makes you a multitasking beast I suppose hahaha. Pretty sure you still stood a chance though!
Line is very impressive too... he really showed me that having lots of mutalisks can be a better way to spend your gas than to make lots of banes... Mutalisks can tear apart small forces of marines/medis/tanks
Thors are the big problem, but having tons of mutalisks can magic box to victory
Pretty much every one of these up and coming players competes in the iccup/nationvoice weekly cup. You guys should definitely check that out to see some of them compete.
I think you're going to wish you had Tassadar on the protoss list very soon! Within the korean scene he is considered one of the best and is by far the most successful protoss player on the ladder (consistently top10 with no others usually in sight in a sea of terrans). People have been criticising his slightly 'cheesy' play in code A so far but it is just a case of blasting his way through inferior players like Ryung to get to the level he belongs.
On a pure talent level I feel oGsHerO is maybe the most talented 'unknown' protoss but his nerve problem is horrendous and dwarfs the issues PuMa has had. Another great terran posting good results is TSL_Alive! Nobody really mentions his name but he does great in all the online cups
MC and Nestea are still so far ahead of their rivals. No one else playing their race compares to them in terms of play, consistancy and overall results.
The Terran slot is really the only one up for grabs, where there's so many potential gosu's who could become to Terran what MC is to Protoss or Nestea for Zergs. Guys like the ones you mentioned plus MKP, TOP, Bomber all have a shot.
On July 06 2011 05:13 Lewan72 wrote: MC+Alicia for protoss , though I think huk deserves 3rd place, not puzzle. Nestea+Losira+Dongraegu for zerg Way to many pro terrans to name lol
I understand the HuK bias being a foreigner and a huge fan myself. But, I'm not ready to give him that high of credit yet. He had a relatively unimpressive code A run, and hasn't done exceedingly well in Code S yet. If he takes down his group, then definitely deserves to be on here. Puzzle has just impressed me greatly so far.
Couldn't agree more, BTW all these "up and comers" are on the Korean weekly almost every week if you want to see some ridiculous play.
I know it makes me soooo happy that that tournament exists. The play is AMAZING everyone go watch it!
+1 for the Korean Weekly being awesome. If you want to know about guys like Puma, Puzzle, Hack, Sage, Tassadar, Hwangsin and others before they become big stars that's where to go.
On July 06 2011 05:24 Whitewing wrote: No foreigners at all?
There are a number of foreigners who are considered to be some of the best players period (by the Koreans), like Thorzain and HuK.
Thorzain in particular has a number of Korean Pro players (like MC and MMA) on record saying how amazingly good he is.
Thorzain is not even amongst the top 10 Terran's worldwide. He's way too inconsistant and one 3-2 win over MC aside (having since lost 4-2 and 2-0 to MC in his worst matchup) has done little to prove he's up there with the S Class guys.
Personally I think DRG is better than NesTea now, yeah he has won alot but if DRG had been playing GSLs regularly from the start rather than just joining a recent GTSL with a fairly low skilled team [ by Korean Standards ].
Coca getting mentions makes me happy, I've been a bit of a fan ever since after his first Code A qualifiers he said that he didn't have a PC at home and was having to practice mostly at PC Bangs. I figure he must have moved intro the team house by now, and it's really awesome seeing his improvement. You watch him and you can really see some huge potential, once he irons out some of his later game decision making he can really be a force.
Puma is an animal (see what I did there?), I implore Terrans to go check some of his replays from the NASL open/iCCup weekleis etc because there's so many good things to take on board there. I don't think there's even a question about whether he can become good enough to compete at the highest level, there's only a question about his nerves.
Sage has been a sheer joy to watch lately, both in the GSTL and the KR weeklies (3-0 vs MKP now). I adore the fact that he's seemingly so willing to experiment and try and make new things work (though apparently not even he can make Nex first work in PvP =p)
I've been waiting on Puzzle to break out forever (since we got all excited back during the zotac invitational) and it looks like he's finally going to, though with that said I think Tassadar is shaping up to be an equally strong contender from Code A too (his last match erased many of my doubts)
Despite some specualation of sC possibly being in a mini-slump, I really do agree that he's at the forefront of Terran. He has great mechanics, unit control, and understands how to play TvZ better than almost anyone right now. Qualified for NASL S2 pretty easily, and while he lost in a very close series to DRG it shouldn't be forgotten that that was the finals of an event, not just one random match.
It's nice to see all this new (or old in some terms) talent coming to the fore and starting to challenge for the crown. It keeps the innovation moving along at a rapid pace and forces everyone to improve giving us better and better games =)
DRG's ZvP is bad, Nestea's is the best in the world. I don't know how good DRG's ZvZ is, but I doubt it's better than Nestea's. So Nestea is better. DRG has better ZvT though.
On July 06 2011 05:24 Whitewing wrote: No foreigners at all?
There are a number of foreigners who are considered to be some of the best players period (by the Koreans), like Thorzain and HuK.
Thorzain in particular has a number of Korean Pro players (like MC and MMA) on record saying how amazingly good he is.
Thorzain is not even amongst the top 10 Terran's worldwide. He's way too inconsistant and one 3-2 win over MC aside (having since lost 4-2 and 2-0 to MC in his worst matchup) has done little to prove he's up there with the S Class guys.
Other than the word of Korean Progamers themselves (MC said he has top 5 TvP in the world easily), every person who plays against him says he's a serious threat. I can't wait to see him in the GSL :D
On July 06 2011 05:39 Asha` wrote: Coca getting mentions makes me happy, I've been a bit of a fan ever since after his first Code A qualifiers he said that he didn't have a PC at home and was having to practice mostly at PC Bangs. I figure he must have moved intro the team house by now, and it's really awesome seeing his improvement. You watch him and you can really see some huge potential, once he irons out some of his later game decision making he can really be a force.
Puma is an animal (see what I did there?), I implore Terrans to go check some of his replays from the NASL open/iCCup weekleis etc because there's so many good things to take on board there. I don't think there's even a question about whether he can become good enough to compete at the highest level, there's only a question about his nerves.
Sage has been a sheer joy to watch lately, both in the GSTL and the KR weeklies (3-0 vs MKP now). I adore the fact that he's seemingly so willing to experiment and try and make new things work (though apparently not even he can make Nex first work in PvP =p)
I've been waiting on Puzzle to break out forever (since we got all excited back during the zotac invitational) and it looks like he's finally going to, though with that said I think Tassadar is shaping up to be an equally strong contender from Code A too (his last match erased many of my doubts)
It's nice to see all this new (or old in some terms) talent coming to the fore and starting to challenge for the crown. It keeps the innovation moving along at a rapid pace and forces everyone to improve giving us better and better games =)
The only problem I have with Tassadar is that he is rather boring and uninspiring to watch. He is clearly better than the players he has faced so far in Code A, but they have been rather unimpressive. I would like to see him play against someone I actually thought was good against Protoss. Puzzle on the other hand went through two great players in MMA and Sheth
On July 06 2011 05:39 Ssoulle wrote: Personally I think DRG is better than NesTea now, yeah he has won alot but if DRG had been playing GSLs regularly from the start rather than just joining a recent GTSL with a fairly low skilled team [ by Korean Standards ].
DRG is nowhere near Nestea standards, what an absurd post. Nestea in the reigning GSL Code S Champion, a two time winner and also a semi finalist and two time Ro8.
He has the highest win ratio on TLPD for both ZvP and ZvZ and is second only to MC for total winnings in Sc2 history.
DRG won a random online tournament and did well in one season of the team league.
On July 06 2011 05:24 Whitewing wrote: No foreigners at all?
There are a number of foreigners who are considered to be some of the best players period (by the Koreans), like Thorzain and HuK.
Thorzain in particular has a number of Korean Pro players (like MC and MMA) on record saying how amazingly good he is.
Thorzain is not even amongst the top 10 Terran's worldwide. He's way too inconsistant and one 3-2 win over MC aside (having since lost 4-2 and 2-0 to MC in his worst matchup) has done little to prove he's up there with the S Class guys.
Other than the word of Korean Progamers themselves (MC said he has top 5 TvP in the world easily), every person who plays against him says he's a serious threat. I can't wait to see him in the GSL :D
Thorzain's a very good player and when he's good he's really good. But he still gets knocked out of tournaments by players like Tarson and didn't make it out of the groups at Dreamhack, at MLG he was knocked out by MC but he still dropped a game to Ret. He lost in the Open Tournament for NASL to TSL Revival. So yeah, he's got a long way to go before we put him up to the level of guys like MKP, MVP, Bomber, SCFou, Nada and MMA.
On July 06 2011 05:24 Whitewing wrote: No foreigners at all?
There are a number of foreigners who are considered to be some of the best players period (by the Koreans), like Thorzain and HuK.
Thorzain in particular has a number of Korean Pro players (like MC and MMA) on record saying how amazingly good he is.
Thorzain is not even amongst the top 10 Terran's worldwide. He's way too inconsistant and one 3-2 win over MC aside (having since lost 4-2 and 2-0 to MC in his worst matchup) has done little to prove he's up there with the S Class guys.
Thorzain might not be top10 Terrans right now, but I think he has a lot of potential. Same with Naniwa. Both of them will hopefully improve a lot while they stay in Korea.
On topic: I've been thinking about this aswell lately. There are plenty of new faces and we might see the old best players fall behind them very soon. I pretty much agree with everyone mentioned in the OP.
Nice write up. Sage's micro is horrible from games I've seen... even though he's all over the place he loses battles he should win all the time. Personally I don't see him ever being in Code S until micro/battle positioning improves a lot. Unfortunately I did not purchase GSL July yet so I have not seen Puzzle or Tassadar..
I was in awe of Sage in the team-league, that guy is godly good, but I agree with everyone you put in the thread also, it makes things very interesting to watch when we have such great talent flourishing from all areas of the GSL, a lot of these guys aren't in Code S yet, not to mentioned Code A and we will keep finding more and more talented players as the GSL enters a second year.
Seems like most of you commentating haven't even read the article? Bomber and losira are considered as already established big name players and rightly so. This thread is about people who may be considered as being on that level soon
On July 06 2011 04:41 Aldehyde wrote: Who is the third protoss? You don't say his nick anywhere and I haven't been following the GSL very closely lately.
I think he mentioned it as Puzzle. I haven't been watching GSL this season either, so I'm actually really depressed because it seems really exciting now :D It's always nice to have dominant players of each race, but I'm more interested in the fresh blood, who usually show really interesting tactics.
On July 06 2011 06:06 Minaegi wrote: Seems like most of you commentating haven't even read the article? Bomber and losira are considered as already established big name players and rightly so. This thread is about people who may be considered as being on that level soon
Alicia, DRG, Polt, etc are not new either, nor were they not getting high results in the past.
Protoss: Sage, Puzzle, Genius (He's been here forever, but trust me, he's coming out in huge fashion this season)
Zerg: DRG, Leenock (Did you forget about him?, his ZvT is stellar, and his ZvZ was on par with NesTea's, just not enough to beat him), Coca or Line (Not both, I only think one of them will succeed, I just can't decide which, Coca is more likely since he's in Code S)
Terran: Puma, aLive, IMHappy
It seems that Ns Hoseo and ZeNEX have a lot of hidden talent, er had. They're not hidden anymore :p
btw, might wanna fix some of your TLPD links, they're practically all wrong, going to BW, and the ones without BW profiles, i.e. Polt, go to International ಠ_ಠ
I'm really excited to see sage play more. He showed so many interesting games that were really fun to watch, especially when Artosis is left in awe at his play.
On July 06 2011 05:56 RinconH wrote: Great thread but I'd like to see Losira and Leenock get some love.
I agree, but I don't really consider them to be up and comers anymore, we have seen these guys play for so long it seems. I love them, but that's why I did not include them.
Hmm I disagree with Line being mentioned. He has an interesting style ZvT but his not that good, I'm a fan of him but there are definitely others that need to be mentioned, July, Leenock, Zenio for example.
I love how you added Sage to Protoss. I think he'll be the next GSL Code S winner when he gets into Code S
And MC is the most dominant protoss by far. Doing well in Code A in GSTL means nothing if it doesn't translate to actually getting into Code S. He's not even slumping, he lost a PvP and had stupid build order losses (though his fault through somewhat greedy play) against Polt, who won the Super Tournament.
Nestea is the most dominant zerg.
For terrans it seems the best one tends to be the guy with the best TvT at the moment apparently, since so much of the players are terran.
On July 06 2011 04:49 Mr.Brightside wrote: Interesting read, i have been thinking a lot about this lately since MC and MVP have not been performing at a level that people would expect of them.
MC in the past month 1st in Stars war tournament 3rd at homestory and columbus.
It's a testament to MC's absolute dominance at his peak when that's considered not doing well
Meh, beating up Foreigners is trivial. That's like Wilt Chamberlain's 100 Point game. Trivial. MC at complete dominance won Copenhagen, DHI, and was the highest placing Korean along with BoxeR. However MC got knocked out by the winner, BoxeR didn't.
On 31st of August, this is how the top 3 of each race will look, in descending order: [Terran: PuMa, sC, NaDa] [Protoss: MC/Sage, Sage/MC, Puzzle] [Zerg: Nestea, DRG, Line]
On July 06 2011 06:15 Z3kk wrote: Should Huk get a mention? Dreamhack was crazy :o Just wondering/personal opinion
He's not really up and coming and he's done nothing really in Korea. His Code A run was really easy/unassuming and so far in Code S he lost his group games and beat MMA to stay in Code S. He lost to Polt in the second round of the Super Tournament.
This is a big Code S for Huk, results at Dreamhack suggests he's improved a lot, but we'll see if that translates into succeeding in Code S.
I hope you are still including Losira in the Zerg category. I think that is what your first paragraph intended to do but I am not 100% sure. If not, shame on you.
Edit: I am really looking forward to seeing Puzzle play. That guy is so gosu. Also one of the fastest players in the game.
Don't you dare say that MC is not the best protoss in the world, because he IS the best protoss. Until some other protoss player wins a GSL title he is the best protoss- so dont say that Alicia or Sage are going to be even close to him for a while. Everything else id have to pretty much agree with- especially since MVP did not make it past his group this GSL season- tsk tsk...
You should not throw a single name out there. drgonzhere made a great post and put many effort in it. If some think there are other players to mention they should at least write a few lines why they consider them. Recent result, their weaknesses and strengh etc.
I would not consider Thorzain a top T at the moment, he had good results but in big tournaments beside TSL he didn´t really shine yet. I´m sure after a few month in Korea you can put him at the top (hope so), the same with Naniwa. HuK I would put up there, but fighting through the GSL against MANY top players will be show his strenght. DH showed his potential but he was a bit lucky with the bracket, really (REALLY) don´t want to talk him down but he himself said in his interview
Naniwa knocked both you and MC into the lower bracket. In the lower bracket, you defeated MC 3-1 and made it to the Grand Finals, where you exacted revenge on Naniwa. Are you the PvP Master? To what do you attribute your success? Top 3 control?
Huk: No, definitely not. I got lucky in a lot of games and had a few BO wins, but also came back in a lot of situations I shouldn't have with some good control or special tactics. Hard work.
So, since March when he won Code A (I don't think there's any worth in anything before that) he's lost in ZvT versus Polt, MKP, MMA, SC and Bomber. None of those are terrible losses they are all amongst the very, very best Terran's.
If you look at his international TLPD, you'll see he has no trouble beating average Terran's so his ZvT is hardly awful it's just weaker, which is not too suprising given he has the second best ZvZ and ZvP in the world.
On July 06 2011 06:05 SafeAsCheese wrote: I don't see how you can include DRG yet exclude Bomber, who has better stats in almost every matchup
Because the Terrans that bomber has to compete with (polt, sc, etc) are much better than the zergs that DRG has to compete with.
Losira needs to fix his ZvT before we can talk about him as a boss zerg. He's as dominating in vP and vZ as Nestea is, but in IM's first GSTL match this year, he got eaten ALIVE by sC. DRG on the other hand needs to step up his late game. He's a fantastic mid game and early game player, but in comparison to those two, his late game is a bit "lacking". That's what is holding him back from being considered at a Nestea/Top Zerg level. ST_Curious, July, and Slayers_Min have all had impressive runs as zerg. They could still do with some improvement, but they're comparable to the Zenex players mentioned. Also, Leenock has been beasting it up in Code A this season. A return to form for him could put him in contention here, and is also going to make fOu (along with sC, and asd/gumiho supporting) an impressive team.
As far as Toss, imo HuK and Nani are higher level than sage and puzzle, just from the play we've seen out of them. Maybe after more exposure we can see differently, but those two are definitely competitive for the second place spot with alicia right now.
Terran is just a shitstorm. It says volumes about the dominance of terran that we don't even see bomber in the top Five players right now (MVP, sc, polt, MKP, MMA, THEN puma/bomber/thestc)
On July 06 2011 06:05 SafeAsCheese wrote: I don't see how you can include DRG yet exclude Bomber, who has better stats in almost every matchup
I mention bomber as one of the established great terrans along with MKP and MVP. Bomber has been known to be one of the best terrans in the world since January, I don't think he is so up and coming anymore.
On July 06 2011 04:49 Mr.Brightside wrote: Interesting read, i have been thinking a lot about this lately since MC and MVP have not been performing at a level that people would expect of them.
MC in the past month 1st in Stars war tournament 3rd at homestory and columbus.
It's a testament to MC's absolute dominance at his peak when that's considered not doing well
Meh, beating up Foreigners is trivial. That's like Wilt Chamberlain's 100 Point game. Trivial. MC at complete dominance won Copenhagen, DHI, and was the highest placing Korean along with BoxeR. However MC got knocked out by the winner, BoxeR didn't.
you have to consider that MC was traveling arround the world, and he was playing lan tournaments while playing on-line tournaments, he didn't had time to train efficiently, he didn't had time to prepare for matches and everybody knows that traveling is very tiresome. Its not easy to win a tournament in china and in the next week go to sweden. MC plays so many tournaments that he never has time to relax and practice, but still he is always trying to please the crowd, I have high respect for him.
On July 06 2011 06:39 Elem wrote: As much as I love DRG, he isn't better than IdrA.
Why in the world would you make that claim?
Because while DRG is intensively skilled he has no results outside of some baller Team League kills. You need some sorts of results to claim that you are such a good Zerg that you are ''second best on the planet''.
On July 06 2011 04:48 hypno_toad wrote: I agree that MVP isn't the best anymore...But MC and Nestea are still the best of their races hands down
Would you say that MKP is the best for Terran right now? I know he's come second a lot but you can't deny how consistant a player he is.
@Tachion If we're going to call DRG the second best Zerg then we need to call MMA the best Terran. Team league kills don't mean anything, you need tournaments to put under your belt of which Idra has quite a few compared to DRG's team league kills.
On July 06 2011 04:49 Mr.Brightside wrote: Interesting read, i have been thinking a lot about this lately since MC and MVP have not been performing at a level that people would expect of them.
MC in the past month 1st in Stars war tournament 3rd at homestory and columbus.
It's a testament to MC's absolute dominance at his peak when that's considered not doing well
Meh, beating up Foreigners is trivial. That's like Wilt Chamberlain's 100 Point game. Trivial. MC at complete dominance won Copenhagen, DHI, and was the highest placing Korean along with BoxeR. However MC got knocked out by the winner, BoxeR didn't.
you have to consider that MC was traveling arround the world, and he was playing lan tournaments while playing on-line tournaments, he didn't had time to train efficiently, he didn't had time to prepare for matches and everybody knows that traveling is very tiresome. Its not easy to win a tournament in china and in the next week go to sweden.
Well his point was that MC is not really performing in GSL, and is still doing well in foreign tournaments. And I said he was doing better in Foreign tournaments earlier when he was still doing well in the GSL. Also typo, I meant he was the highest placing Korean along with BoxeR in TSL
On July 06 2011 06:39 Elem wrote: As much as I love DRG, he isn't better than IdrA.
Why in the world would you make that claim?
Because while DRG is intensively skilled he has no results outside of some baller Team League kills. You need some sorts of results to claim that you are such a good Zerg that you are ''second best on the planet''.
He won 3-2 in the LG Cinema 3D tourney against sC. He has the results considering he doesn't participate in much.
On July 06 2011 04:48 hypno_toad wrote: I agree that MVP isn't the best anymore...But MC and Nestea are still the best of their races hands down
Would you say that MKP is the best for Terran right now? I know he's come second a lot but you can't deny how consistant a player he is.
@Tachion If we're going to call DRG the second best Zerg then we need to call MMA the best Terran. Team league kills don't mean anything, you need tournaments to put under your belt of which Idra has quite a few compared to DRG's team league kills.
IdrA has some foreign tournaments, so what. And no that would not make MMA the best Terran in the world, that would make him one of the best. Guess what? They're both in Code B. And DRG won the LG 3d Special League. That's a result. And in regards to MKP, he's not consistent at all. He's been knocked out in the Ro32 in every single Code S regular season save for January. NaDa, is consistent.
People need to stop bringing foreign tournaments into these as well. They don't matter to the Korean scene, that's why we have separate TLPD databases.
On July 06 2011 06:39 Elem wrote: As much as I love DRG, he isn't better than IdrA.
Why in the world would you make that claim?
Because while DRG is intensively skilled he has no results outside of some baller Team League kills. You need some sorts of results to claim that you are such a good Zerg that you are ''second best on the planet''.
He won 3-2 in the LG Cinema 3D tourney against sC. He has the results considering he doesn't participate in much.
He has one win pretty much. He's still not even Code A. Even if the qualifiers are brutal if he was such a good player that he'd have some sort of consistency when it comes to results.
What's even more suprising is that Korea = Terranland, with his ZvT he'd roll his was through if he had some consistency.
So, since March when he won Code A (I don't think there's any worth in anything before that) he's lost in ZvT versus Polt, MKP, MMA, SC and Bomber. None of those are terrible losses they are all amongst the very, very best Terran's.
If you look at his international TLPD, you'll see he has no trouble beating average Terran's so his ZvT is hardly awful it's just weaker, which is not too suprising given he has the second best ZvZ and ZvP in the world.
Losira definitely has a strange game list vT. On one hand he hasn't really played bad Terrans to inflate his stats. But, he still hasn't beat many of them (He beat Supernova, but SN claims he has no idea how to play TvZ and it kinda looked that way).
To me he still has to prove that he can play with top Terrans to convince me that his vT is actually good (beating MKP is a good start).
On July 06 2011 04:48 hypno_toad wrote: I agree that MVP isn't the best anymore...But MC and Nestea are still the best of their races hands down
Would you say that MKP is the best for Terran right now? I know he's come second a lot but you can't deny how consistant a player he is.
@Tachion If we're going to call DRG the second best Zerg then we need to call MMA the best Terran. Team league kills don't mean anything, you need tournaments to put under your belt of which Idra has quite a few compared to DRG's team league kills.
I know I might get hate for this but I feel the only style that MKP can play at a top level is bad, and very predictable. The kid literally just makes marines and tries to kill you. If they are ready for him MarineKing is not that great IMO
On July 06 2011 06:15 Z3kk wrote: Should Huk get a mention? Dreamhack was crazy :o Just wondering/personal opinion
He's not really up and coming and he's done nothing really in Korea. His Code A run was really easy/unassuming and so far in Code S he lost his group games and beat MMA to stay in Code S. He lost to Polt in the second round of the Super Tournament.
This is a big Code S for Huk, results at Dreamhack suggests he's improved a lot, but we'll see if that translates into succeeding in Code S.
I wasn't aware that Korean tournaments were the only ones that mattered.
On July 06 2011 06:15 Z3kk wrote: Should Huk get a mention? Dreamhack was crazy :o Just wondering/personal opinion
He's not really up and coming and he's done nothing really in Korea. His Code A run was really easy/unassuming and so far in Code S he lost his group games and beat MMA to stay in Code S. He lost to Polt in the second round of the Super Tournament.
This is a big Code S for Huk, results at Dreamhack suggests he's improved a lot, but we'll see if that translates into succeeding in Code S.
I wasn't aware that Korean tournaments were the only ones that mattered.
Article is about the Korean scene man. He's talented, but his play hasn't been ultra impressive in the GSL so far. If his results in Korea begin to mirror his success abroad, sure, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
On July 06 2011 06:15 Z3kk wrote: Should Huk get a mention? Dreamhack was crazy :o Just wondering/personal opinion
He's not really up and coming and he's done nothing really in Korea. His Code A run was really easy/unassuming and so far in Code S he lost his group games and beat MMA to stay in Code S. He lost to Polt in the second round of the Super Tournament.
This is a big Code S for Huk, results at Dreamhack suggests he's improved a lot, but we'll see if that translates into succeeding in Code S.
I wasn't aware that Korean tournaments were the only ones that mattered.
Article is about the Korean scene man. He's talented, but his play hasn't been ultra impressive in the GSL so far. If his results in Korea begin to mirror his success abroad, sure, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
It's fine if you want it to be just about Koreans, but it would be nice if that was mentioned somewhere, like in the title of the thread or in the article somewhere. As is, it gives the impression that there aren't any foreigners that matter at all, and that isn't the case, with foreigners playing against koreans and winning in various LAN tournaments.
It's weird that you put puma in there over so many other terrans. Byun, Alive, Supernova, TOP, Clide, Virus, Ensnare, Keen, Nada etc. but you pick Puma? lol.
On July 06 2011 06:15 Z3kk wrote: Should Huk get a mention? Dreamhack was crazy :o Just wondering/personal opinion
He's not really up and coming and he's done nothing really in Korea. His Code A run was really easy/unassuming and so far in Code S he lost his group games and beat MMA to stay in Code S. He lost to Polt in the second round of the Super Tournament.
This is a big Code S for Huk, results at Dreamhack suggests he's improved a lot, but we'll see if that translates into succeeding in Code S.
I wasn't aware that Korean tournaments were the only ones that mattered.
Article is about the Korean scene man. He's talented, but his play hasn't been ultra impressive in the GSL so far. If his results in Korea begin to mirror his success abroad, sure, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
It's fine if you want it to be just about Koreans, but it would be nice if that was mentioned somewhere, like in the title of the thread or in the article somewhere. As is, it gives the impression that there aren't any foreigners that matter at all, and that isn't the case, with foreigners playing against koreans and winning in various LAN tournaments.
I mean, if you take it that way. There's been two LANS where a foreigner, who lives in Korea, has won with Korean competition. Koreans, or those who practice there, are better right now, no way around it.
On July 06 2011 07:33 MechKing wrote: It's weird that you put puma in there over so many other terrans. Byun, Alive, Supernova, TOP, Clide, Virus, Ensnare, Keen, Nada etc. but you pick Puma? lol.
On July 06 2011 07:33 MechKing wrote: It's weird that you put puma in there over so many other terrans. Byun, Alive, Supernova, TOP, Clide, Virus, Ensnare, Keen, Nada etc. but you pick Puma? lol.
Did you read the purpose of the write up?
I'm not quite sure I understand it. You put sC and Polt in there but you also put in Puma and MMA? Are these supposed to be all up and comers or what? If it's supposed to be up and comers, why no Ganzi, Taeja, IceCream, Hack, asd, Ryung, Sculp, Jjakji?
On July 06 2011 07:33 MechKing wrote: It's weird that you put puma in there over so many other terrans. Byun, Alive, Supernova, TOP, Clide, Virus, Ensnare, Keen, Nada etc. but you pick Puma? lol.
Did you read the purpose of the write up?
I'm not quite sure I understand it. You put sC and Polt in there but you also put in Puma and MMA? Are these supposed to be all up and comers or what? If it's supposed to be up and comers, why no Ganzi, Taeja, IceCream, Hack, asd, Ryung, Sculp, Jjakji?
Because none of these except for Ganzi, have produced any incredibly meaningful results. If you're insinuating that sC and Polt are old institutions of the Terran race, I disagree completely. While they may have been around for a while, there skills have increased dramatically in the past month or two. I'm sorry I don't have time to write about every single Terran who has picked up a couple games. These are just the ones that impressed the most. I mean Polt went from being one of the worst in Code S to a Super Tournament Champion. I mean if you have the time to write detailed descriptions of all of those Terrans and their play style be my guest.
On July 06 2011 07:33 MechKing wrote: It's weird that you put puma in there over so many other terrans. Byun, Alive, Supernova, TOP, Clide, Virus, Ensnare, Keen, Nada etc. but you pick Puma? lol.
Did you read the purpose of the write up?
I'm not quite sure I understand it. You put sC and Polt in there but you also put in Puma and MMA? Are these supposed to be all up and comers or what? If it's supposed to be up and comers, why no Ganzi, Taeja, IceCream, Hack, asd, Ryung, Sculp, Jjakji?
Because none of these except for Ganzi, have produced any incredibly meaningful results. If you're insinuating that sC and Polt are old institutions of the Terran race, I disagree completely. While they may have been around for a while, there skills have increased dramatically in the past month or two. I'm sorry I don't have time to write about every single Terran who has picked up a couple games. These are just the ones that impressed the most. I mean Polt went from being one of the worst in Code S to a Super Tournament Champion. I mean if you have the time to write detailed descriptions of all of those Terrans and their play style be my guest.
sC went through code A into S in one try and Polt has stayed in code S the whole time. I just thought it was weird that you put two code S players and 2 Code B players in there. You could put so many more players in there lol.
On July 06 2011 07:33 MechKing wrote: It's weird that you put puma in there over so many other terrans. Byun, Alive, Supernova, TOP, Clide, Virus, Ensnare, Keen, Nada etc. but you pick Puma? lol.
Did you read the purpose of the write up?
I'm not quite sure I understand it. You put sC and Polt in there but you also put in Puma and MMA? Are these supposed to be all up and comers or what? If it's supposed to be up and comers, why no Ganzi, Taeja, IceCream, Hack, asd, Ryung, Sculp, Jjakji?
Because none of these except for Ganzi, have produced any incredibly meaningful results. If you're insinuating that sC and Polt are old institutions of the Terran race, I disagree completely. While they may have been around for a while, there skills have increased dramatically in the past month or two. I'm sorry I don't have time to write about every single Terran who has picked up a couple games. These are just the ones that impressed the most. I mean Polt went from being one of the worst in Code S to a Super Tournament Champion. I mean if you have the time to write detailed descriptions of all of those Terrans and their play style be my guest.
sC went through code A into S in one try and Polt has stayed in code S the whole time. I just thought it was weird that you put two code S players and 2 Code B players in there. You could put so many more players in there lol.
Being in Code S doesn't equal being good. They were not great players until very recently. Code's don't matter skill does.
On July 06 2011 07:33 MechKing wrote: It's weird that you put puma in there over so many other terrans. Byun, Alive, Supernova, TOP, Clide, Virus, Ensnare, Keen, Nada etc. but you pick Puma? lol.
Did you read the purpose of the write up?
I'm not quite sure I understand it. You put sC and Polt in there but you also put in Puma and MMA? Are these supposed to be all up and comers or what? If it's supposed to be up and comers, why no Ganzi, Taeja, IceCream, Hack, asd, Ryung, Sculp, Jjakji?
Because none of these except for Ganzi, have produced any incredibly meaningful results. If you're insinuating that sC and Polt are old institutions of the Terran race, I disagree completely. While they may have been around for a while, there skills have increased dramatically in the past month or two. I'm sorry I don't have time to write about every single Terran who has picked up a couple games. These are just the ones that impressed the most. I mean Polt went from being one of the worst in Code S to a Super Tournament Champion. I mean if you have the time to write detailed descriptions of all of those Terrans and their play style be my guest.
sC went through code A into S in one try and Polt has stayed in code S the whole time. I just thought it was weird that you put two code S players and 2 Code B players in there. You could put so many more players in there lol.
Being in Code S doesn't equal being good. They were not great players until very recently. Code's don't matter skill does.
So Code S players aren't good. I learned something new today. So you think Puma is better overall than most of the Terrans in code S or A just because he got some results recently? Of course the codes matter. Puma hasn't gotten into code A, yet you say he can become one of the best in the world. Stop being so ridiculous.
On July 06 2011 07:33 MechKing wrote: It's weird that you put puma in there over so many other terrans. Byun, Alive, Supernova, TOP, Clide, Virus, Ensnare, Keen, Nada etc. but you pick Puma? lol.
Did you read the purpose of the write up?
I'm not quite sure I understand it. You put sC and Polt in there but you also put in Puma and MMA? Are these supposed to be all up and comers or what? If it's supposed to be up and comers, why no Ganzi, Taeja, IceCream, Hack, asd, Ryung, Sculp, Jjakji?
Because none of these except for Ganzi, have produced any incredibly meaningful results. If you're insinuating that sC and Polt are old institutions of the Terran race, I disagree completely. While they may have been around for a while, there skills have increased dramatically in the past month or two. I'm sorry I don't have time to write about every single Terran who has picked up a couple games. These are just the ones that impressed the most. I mean Polt went from being one of the worst in Code S to a Super Tournament Champion. I mean if you have the time to write detailed descriptions of all of those Terrans and their play style be my guest.
sC went through code A into S in one try and Polt has stayed in code S the whole time. I just thought it was weird that you put two code S players and 2 Code B players in there. You could put so many more players in there lol.
Being in Code S doesn't equal being good. They were not great players until very recently. Code's don't matter skill does.
So Code S players aren't good. I learned something new today. So you think Puma is better overall than most of the Terrans in code S or A just because he got some results recently? Of course the codes matter. Puma hasn't gotten into code A, yet you say he can become one of the best in the world. Stop being so ridiculous.
You are the one who is being ridiculous. I didn't say code S players are bad. I said just because you are in Code S doesn't mean you are one of the best players of your race, or at least an UP AND COMING player of your race, which is what the write up is about. That is a perfectly rational viewpoint to have. Look at players like MMA, DRG, and yes Puma. Have you ever seen Puma play? Do you really think that MarineKing is better than him at T v T after watching him play? Even KawaiiRice has responded in this thread as to how amazing Puma is. Idk maybe you have a problem with Puma, did he do something to you? Did he ruin your fantasy GSTL?
On July 06 2011 08:01 LeakyBucket wrote: I would really lie to see a foreigner version of this! Good read btw.
Only really Idra 'leads' his race, and that's more in the eyes of the community than other players anyway. Most players look up to the best Koreans, because well, they're the best.
A nice article, and well written, but I have 1 question? Why does no one even mention oGsTOP? He won Code A, got to the semi finals of the ST and was the only player even close to beating Polt. He knocked out Nestea. He's a beast, and he's already proven himself against top (pardon the pun) players. He's got to be considered at the forefront of his race right now.
On July 06 2011 05:24 Whitewing wrote: No foreigners at all?
There are a number of foreigners who are considered to be some of the best players period (by the Koreans), like Thorzain and HuK.
Thorzain in particular has a number of Korean Pro players (like MC and MMA) on record saying how amazingly good he is.
Thorzain is not even amongst the top 10 Terran's worldwide. He's way too inconsistant and one 3-2 win over MC aside (having since lost 4-2 and 2-0 to MC in his worst matchup) has done little to prove he's up there with the S Class guys.
Other than the word of Korean Progamers themselves (MC said he has top 5 TvP in the world easily), every person who plays against him says he's a serious threat. I can't wait to see him in the GSL :D
Thorzain's a very good player and when he's good he's really good. But he still gets knocked out of tournaments by players like Tarson and didn't make it out of the groups at Dreamhack, at MLG he was knocked out by MC but he still dropped a game to Ret. He lost in the Open Tournament for NASL to TSL Revival. So yeah, he's got a long way to go before we put him up to the level of guys like MKP, MVP, Bomber, SCFou, Nada and MMA.
Tarson was on a roll in Homestory Cup and he had a really strong group in Dreamhack. Ret is top 5 foreigner zergs imo (Nerchio, IdrA, Dimaga, MorroW, Ret. Lalush in a fairly close 6th, not in order). His TvP is top notch, and his TvT/TvZ aren't quite up to that point yet. I wouldn't bash Thorzain too much though.
On July 06 2011 07:33 MechKing wrote: It's weird that you put puma in there over so many other terrans. Byun, Alive, Supernova, TOP, Clide, Virus, Ensnare, Keen, Nada etc. but you pick Puma? lol.
Did you read the purpose of the write up?
I'm not quite sure I understand it. You put sC and Polt in there but you also put in Puma and MMA? Are these supposed to be all up and comers or what? If it's supposed to be up and comers, why no Ganzi, Taeja, IceCream, Hack, asd, Ryung, Sculp, Jjakji?
Because none of these except for Ganzi, have produced any incredibly meaningful results. If you're insinuating that sC and Polt are old institutions of the Terran race, I disagree completely. While they may have been around for a while, there skills have increased dramatically in the past month or two. I'm sorry I don't have time to write about every single Terran who has picked up a couple games. These are just the ones that impressed the most. I mean Polt went from being one of the worst in Code S to a Super Tournament Champion. I mean if you have the time to write detailed descriptions of all of those Terrans and their play style be my guest.
sC went through code A into S in one try and Polt has stayed in code S the whole time. I just thought it was weird that you put two code S players and 2 Code B players in there. You could put so many more players in there lol.
Being in Code S doesn't equal being good. They were not great players until very recently. Code's don't matter skill does.
So Code S players aren't good. I learned something new today. So you think Puma is better overall than most of the Terrans in code S or A just because he got some results recently? Of course the codes matter. Puma hasn't gotten into code A, yet you say he can become one of the best in the world. Stop being so ridiculous.
You are the one who is being ridiculous. I didn't say code S players are bad. I said just because you are in Code S doesn't mean you are one of the best players of your race, or at least an UP AND COMING player of your race, which is what the write up is about. That is a perfectly rational viewpoint to have. Look at players like MMA, DRG, and yes Puma. Have you ever seen Puma play? Do you really think that MarineKing is better than him at T v T after watching him play? Even KawaiiRice has responded in this thread as to how amazing Puma is. Idk maybe you have a problem with Puma, did he do something to you? Did he ruin your fantasy GSTL?
First of all, you said "being code S doesn't equal being good" which is just idiotic. And yes, being code S DOES make you one of the best players of your race. Are you srsly going to say that Puma is a better player than any of the code S Terrans? And yes I've seen him play. MarineKing IS a better player than puma overall. Maybe not TvT, but that is only because puma played a better style than MarineKing. If you knew anything about TvT you would realize that mech is way easier to use and better than bio is. If Puma was so good he would have qualified by now. You don't even have Bomber in your list too -.- Please enlighten me, who exactly is puma better than? He has one good matchup in TvT. It's funny how you don't even mention Hack or asd, who have both gotten good results as well. Hack got an all kill vs. FXO and he got 2nd in two TL Opens. asd got into code A and beat Boxer and Jinro. What about IMHappy? What about Tassadar? What about Ryung? What about Taeja? But you don't mention any of them, because they aren't hyped enough by Artosis, correct?
On July 06 2011 05:24 Whitewing wrote: No foreigners at all?
There are a number of foreigners who are considered to be some of the best players period (by the Koreans), like Thorzain and HuK.
Thorzain in particular has a number of Korean Pro players (like MC and MMA) on record saying how amazingly good he is.
Thorzain is not even amongst the top 10 Terran's worldwide. He's way too inconsistant and one 3-2 win over MC aside (having since lost 4-2 and 2-0 to MC in his worst matchup) has done little to prove he's up there with the S Class guys.
Other than the word of Korean Progamers themselves (MC said he has top 5 TvP in the world easily), every person who plays against him says he's a serious threat. I can't wait to see him in the GSL :D
Thorzain's a very good player and when he's good he's really good. But he still gets knocked out of tournaments by players like Tarson and didn't make it out of the groups at Dreamhack, at MLG he was knocked out by MC but he still dropped a game to Ret. He lost in the Open Tournament for NASL to TSL Revival. So yeah, he's got a long way to go before we put him up to the level of guys like MKP, MVP, Bomber, SCFou, Nada and MMA.
Tarson was on a roll in Homestory Cup and he had a really strong group in Dreamhack. Ret is top 5 foreigner zergs imo (Nerchio, IdrA, Dimaga, MorroW, Ret. Lalush in a fairly close 6th, not in order). His TvP is top notch, and his TvT/TvZ aren't quite up to that point yet. I wouldn't bash Thorzain too much though.
The issue isn't that Ret isn't a good player, it's that a top Code S player shouldn't be losing to any foreigners, nevermind a top 5 foreign Zerg.
On July 06 2011 08:30 MCDayC wrote: A nice article, and well written, but I have 1 question? Why does no one even mention oGsTOP? He won Code A, got to the semi finals of the ST and was the only player even close to beating Polt. He knocked out Nestea. He's a beast, and he's already proven himself against top (pardon the pun) players. He's got to be considered at the forefront of his race right now.
Think the OP is discussing newer players, TOP was always considered to be good, even when he was in code A. But polt was consider to be bad by many for a long time and Sc was "just another Fou player"
The issue isn't that Ret isn't a good player, it's that a top Code S player shouldn't be losing to any foreigners, nevermind a top 5 foreign Zerg.
This makes no sense. Especially when you consider Ret's style which will catch people offguard at least once, especially when considering that the Korean Zerg norm is a lot more agressive early game.
On July 06 2011 05:24 Whitewing wrote: No foreigners at all?
There are a number of foreigners who are considered to be some of the best players period (by the Koreans), like Thorzain and HuK.
Thorzain in particular has a number of Korean Pro players (like MC and MMA) on record saying how amazingly good he is.
Thorzain is not even amongst the top 10 Terran's worldwide. He's way too inconsistant and one 3-2 win over MC aside (having since lost 4-2 and 2-0 to MC in his worst matchup) has done little to prove he's up there with the S Class guys.
Other than the word of Korean Progamers themselves (MC said he has top 5 TvP in the world easily), every person who plays against him says he's a serious threat. I can't wait to see him in the GSL :D
Thorzain's a very good player and when he's good he's really good. But he still gets knocked out of tournaments by players like Tarson and didn't make it out of the groups at Dreamhack, at MLG he was knocked out by MC but he still dropped a game to Ret. He lost in the Open Tournament for NASL to TSL Revival. So yeah, he's got a long way to go before we put him up to the level of guys like MKP, MVP, Bomber, SCFou, Nada and MMA.
Tarson was on a roll in Homestory Cup and he had a really strong group in Dreamhack. Ret is top 5 foreigner zergs imo (Nerchio, IdrA, Dimaga, MorroW, Ret. Lalush in a fairly close 6th, not in order). His TvP is top notch, and his TvT/TvZ aren't quite up to that point yet. I wouldn't bash Thorzain too much though.
The issue isn't that Ret isn't a good player, it's that a top Code S player shouldn't be losing to any foreigners, nevermind a top 5 foreign Zerg.
Haypro took games off both Bomber and Losira. Does this disqualify them as top players in their race? Or does it say Haypro is doing well recently? Nestea hasn't made it past round 1 in any foreigner tourney. MC got knocked down to the losers bracket in Homestory Cup by Naniwa, in the matchup where he was considered the best (might've changed since the WG nerf though).
Although I haven't seen a lot of his play, I think Hack is definitely someone to look out for. Maybe doesn't have enough results to be called an up and comer yet, but I think he could definitely be a force in the future.
I have no doubt that the other protosses are good but I still believe there's only one protoss above all and that's still MC. Like NesTea he has been top of his race.
On July 06 2011 09:21 GoKu` wrote: You need to add IMHappy he was a beast in Warcraft 3 and has been playing less then grubby moon and lyn and is now a beast.
The WC3 Happy is the European Happy (Empire), not the Korean Happy (IM).
On July 06 2011 09:21 GoKu` wrote: You need to add IMHappy he was a beast in Warcraft 3 and has been playing less then grubby moon and lyn and is now a beast.
The WC3 Happy is the European Happy (Empire), not the Korean Happy (IM).
Lol, this gets so ridiculously confusing when I'm looking at Ranks and stuff
On July 06 2011 08:30 MCDayC wrote: A nice article, and well written, but I have 1 question? Why does no one even mention oGsTOP? He won Code A, got to the semi finals of the ST and was the only player even close to beating Polt. He knocked out Nestea. He's a beast, and he's already proven himself against top (pardon the pun) players. He's got to be considered at the forefront of his race right now.
TOP has been one of the best Terran's since Season One. He arguably should have beaten Fruitdealer, and If he would have, most likely could have won the first season. For that reason I don't consider him up and coming because he's been around forever.
Also @Subversion I'm not saying sC is the king of terran, just that he is one of the race's most prominent rising star.
Would have liked to see Losira or Leenock in this. Leenock invented the Macrohatch-Evo-Spine-Queen wall that shuts down Hellion harass on those maps that have naturals with huge ramps (Tal Darim, Belshir, Crevasse, etc.) And Losira is the successor to Nestea, with incredible APM and signature T1 play that allowed him to crush face at the recent MLG Columbus.
I disagree about MC not being "the king of his race". He is just as much the king of protoss as Nestea is of Zerg. Granted, he was taken out by AMAZING micro by Alicia in the super tournament, but that was really something else. I think MC's PvP has slipped a bit, but he's gonna keep on dominating PvZ (even tho his style is getting a little bit tired there now) and his PvT is still incredible. I wouldn't expect him to fall from grace for some time.
That said, Puzzle really impressed me and Alicia also has been amazing (Captain of my fantasy GSTL actually). But MC will have the throne a while longer I think.
Edit:
Also, blatent fanboyism but MKP is gonna start his era of dominance soon I think. His run through the NASL Season2 qualifiers was breathtaking.
On July 06 2011 09:49 TheDougler wrote: I disagree about MC not being "the king of his race". He is just as much the king of protoss as Nestea is of Zerg. Granted, he was taken out by AMAZING micro by Alicia in the super tournament, but that was really something else. I think MC's PvP has slipped a bit, but he's gonna keep on dominating PvZ (even tho his style is getting a little bit tired there now) and his PvT is still incredible. I wouldn't expect him to fall from grace for some time.
That said, Puzzle really impressed me and Alicia also has been amazing (Captain of my fantasy GSTL actually). But MC will have the throne a while longer I think.
Edit:
Also, blatent fanboyism but MKP is gonna start his era of dominance soon I think. His run through the NASL Season2 qualifiers was breathtaking.
Totally agree dude, I just think his stranglehold on being the Boss Toss, is weakening a little is all.
I clicked "Show Spoiler" under Zerg and got shown Line and Coca instead of Leenock.
Naturally, I am disappoint =(
Not a new face I guess, but sC isn't new in my eyes, just in other peoples for some reason because he had to come through Code A? Polt also been around forever, but only noticeable recently. Feels like the Zerg and Protoss names are the "Oh god these guys are good and have come out of nowhere in the last season or two" whereas Terran are like "These guys have been good for a while, recently really good though + PuMa".
So yeah, nice thread idea, but I feel like you only hit the mark with Zerg and Protoss, whilst Terran just listed non new faces =/
On July 06 2011 10:05 bittman wrote: I clicked "Show Spoiler" under Zerg and got shown Line and Coca instead of Leenock.
Naturally, I am disappoint =(
Not a new face I guess, but sC isn't new in my eyes, just in other peoples for some reason because he had to come through Code A? Polt also been around forever, but only noticeable recently. Feels like the Zerg and Protoss names are the "Oh god these guys are good and have come out of nowhere in the last season or two" whereas Terran are like "These guys have been good for a while, recently really good though + PuMa".
So yeah, nice thread idea, but I feel like you only hit the mark with Zerg and Protoss, whilst Terran just listed non new faces =/
Leenock, has been around since Open Season 2 I believe and he was considered the best player on fOu until last month when sC became way gosu. Admittedly the terran players are not as fresh and I regret that, but I honestly don't see many Terrans in the last few months who are playing at these players level recently. IMHappy is really the only one, but he has played very inferior opponents so far in Code A. I do consider him to be very talented though. Of course this isn't the end all be all thread of up and comers I fully expect the landscape to change in several months. I just couldn't think of many new new really talented Terrans.
This is the type of thread I come to TeamLiquid for! Excellent write-up. Can't wait to watch games by Puma and also ZenexLine... I have yet to see them play.
Definitely going to have to hunt down the Puma games--hungry for some inspired Terran play. As much as I appreciate SC and Polt, they are mind-numbingly standard (although Polt started to show some flair in the finals) and hard to root for or care about.
Great post and I have largely gotten the same feeling about the players that you mentioned and I really look forward to seeing what kind of play we see out of them in future GSL events.
On July 06 2011 09:49 TheDougler wrote: I disagree about MC not being "the king of his race". He is just as much the king of protoss as Nestea is of Zerg. Granted, he was taken out by AMAZING micro by Alicia in the super tournament, but that was really something else. I think MC's PvP has slipped a bit, but he's gonna keep on dominating PvZ (even tho his style is getting a little bit tired there now) and his PvT is still incredible. I wouldn't expect him to fall from grace for some time.
That said, Puzzle really impressed me and Alicia also has been amazing (Captain of my fantasy GSTL actually). But MC will have the throne a while longer I think.
Edit:
Also, blatent fanboyism but MKP is gonna start his era of dominance soon I think. His run through the NASL Season2 qualifiers was breathtaking.
Totally agree dude, I just think his stranglehold on being the Boss Toss, is weakening a little is all.
I remember how after his second championship he seemed so, so strong, like literally unbeatable. Here's to hoping for a third ^^
Nice work, I think the zerg king is still clear with NesTea having the crown clearly, terran theres a bunch of people now to where you can't specifically name one person(also no Bomber on the list, so I do disagree with that).
Protoss, I think Alicia personally is better than MC, but we'll see about that, Sage is someone that can become really really good, and Puzzle looks like someone who could be a steady code s player.
On July 07 2011 05:46 SSLPrism wrote: Nice work, I think the zerg king is still clear with NesTea having the crown clearly, terran theres a bunch of people now to where you can't specifically name one person(also no Bomber on the list, so I do disagree with that).
Protoss, I think Alicia personally is better than MC, but we'll see about that, Sage is someone that can become really really good, and Puzzle looks like someone who could be a steady code s player.
Alicia's pvz is atrocious...even if you think maybe alicia has a better matchup, MC is much more solid overall( stastically alicia is inferior to MC in every way) how can you say someone with no tourney results is better than MC >.>
On July 07 2011 05:46 SSLPrism wrote: Nice work, I think the zerg king is still clear with NesTea having the crown clearly, terran theres a bunch of people now to where you can't specifically name one person(also no Bomber on the list, so I do disagree with that).
Protoss, I think Alicia personally is better than MC, but we'll see about that, Sage is someone that can become really really good, and Puzzle looks like someone who could be a steady code s player.
Yeah, the thing about Bomber is we've been hearing about how this guy might actually be the best Terran in the world since January, so I don't really think he's fresh enough you know?
NesTea will always be my favorite Zerg, but I have really enjoyed watching Line lately and I hope to get a better look at his ZvT as I think it really suits my style.
Alicia hasn't been performing as well in PvT as Artosis' comments have lead us to believe, but he still seems to be very competent in every match-up, even beating MC in the Super Tournament in games that were mostly micro wars. A skill that most attribute to his opponent.
I can't wait till drg makes it into code s. I feel he's the 2nd best zerg in the world behind nestea. There's no zerg in code s other than nestea who is better than him. Kyrix and Violet being in code s over him makes me weep.
On July 07 2011 06:18 Sworn wrote: Where Bomber on the terran line up I would say Bomber is scarier than SC or MMA and defs more scary than Puma lol. He defs needs to be there.
You should defs read the part where I talk about how Bomber has been the best Terran in the world since pretty much January, and how anyone who has defs been paying attention to the scene would have defs heard about him before players like MMA and PuMA. Defs not an up and comer.
On July 07 2011 06:10 NexUmbra wrote: NesTea is by far the undisputed champion of Zerg.
MVP is certainly not.
MC is still the best imo, but not like NesTea where he is the reaper of nerd souls.
The thing is that NesTea and MC are undisputed champion of their races because there are SO FEW good protoss or zerg around. Their GSL runs were not incredible, except for NesTea season 2 but that was not comparable with Mvp period of dominance : Mvp trashed NesTea and MKP two times (GSL Code S S1 and Gainward), NaDa or TheStC, and 5-0ed an entire zerg line-up, while being on top of the ladder. Since there are many very good terrans it's harder to still be considered the "king", whereas MC and NesTea are top of their races despite relatively bad showings (same as Mvp) in several seasons. Oh and yeah MKP's era of dominance will start sooner or later, his nerves won't stop his incredible raw skill for too long.
On July 07 2011 06:18 Sworn wrote: Where Bomber on the terran line up I would say Bomber is scarier than SC or MMA and defs more scary than Puma lol. He defs needs to be there.
You should defs read the part where I talk about how Bomber has been the best Terran in the world since pretty much January, and how anyone who has defs been paying attention to the scene would have defs heard about him before players like MMA and PuMA. Defs not an up and comer.
Thats the thing though Bomber came up around the same time as MMA so I didn't understand why you would classify him with MKP since MKP has been around forever while Bomber is quite new still.
On July 07 2011 06:10 NexUmbra wrote: NesTea is by far the undisputed champion of Zerg.
MVP is certainly not.
MC is still the best imo, but not like NesTea where he is the reaper of nerd souls.
The thing is that NesTea and MC are undisputed champion of their races because there are SO FEW good protoss or zerg around. Their GSL runs were not incredible, except for NesTea season 2 but that was not comparable with Mvp period of dominance : Mvp trashed NesTea and MKP two times (GSL Code S S1 and Gainward), NaDa or TheStC, and 5-0ed an entire zerg line-up, while being on top of the ladder. Since there are many very good terrans it's harder to still be considered the "king", whereas MC and NesTea are top of their races despite relatively bad showings (same as Mvp) in several seasons. Oh and yeah MKP's era of dominance will start sooner or later, his nerves won't stop his incredible raw skill for too long.
How was GSL 3 not an impressive run? MC demolished all competition.
On July 07 2011 06:10 NexUmbra wrote: NesTea is by far the undisputed champion of Zerg.
MVP is certainly not.
MC is still the best imo, but not like NesTea where he is the reaper of nerd souls.
The thing is that NesTea and MC are undisputed champion of their races because there are SO FEW good protoss or zerg around. Their GSL runs were not incredible, except for NesTea season 2 but that was not comparable with Mvp period of dominance : Mvp trashed NesTea and MKP two times (GSL Code S S1 and Gainward), NaDa or TheStC, and 5-0ed an entire zerg line-up, while being on top of the ladder. Since there are many very good terrans it's harder to still be considered the "king", whereas MC and NesTea are top of their races despite relatively bad showings (same as Mvp) in several seasons. Oh and yeah MKP's era of dominance will start sooner or later, his nerves won't stop his incredible raw skill for too long.
How was GSL 3 not an impressive run? MC demolished all competition.
The only good player he beat was MKP, whereas Mvp destroyed the zerg king and 2nd best terran.
On July 07 2011 06:10 NexUmbra wrote: NesTea is by far the undisputed champion of Zerg.
MVP is certainly not.
MC is still the best imo, but not like NesTea where he is the reaper of nerd souls.
The thing is that NesTea and MC are undisputed champion of their races because there are SO FEW good protoss or zerg around. Their GSL runs were not incredible, except for NesTea season 2 but that was not comparable with Mvp period of dominance : Mvp trashed NesTea and MKP two times (GSL Code S S1 and Gainward), NaDa or TheStC, and 5-0ed an entire zerg line-up, while being on top of the ladder. Since there are many very good terrans it's harder to still be considered the "king", whereas MC and NesTea are top of their races despite relatively bad showings (same as Mvp) in several seasons. Oh and yeah MKP's era of dominance will start sooner or later, his nerves won't stop his incredible raw skill for too long.
How was GSL 3 not an impressive run? MC demolished all competition.
The only good player he beat was MKP.
jinro was considered best foreigner if not best terran at the time and he got destroyed. Nestea didnt face that great of players in his run either, besides MKP.
On July 07 2011 06:18 Sworn wrote: Where Bomber on the terran line up I would say Bomber is scarier than SC or MMA and defs more scary than Puma lol. He defs needs to be there.
You should defs read the part where I talk about how Bomber has been the best Terran in the world since pretty much January, and how anyone who has defs been paying attention to the scene would have defs heard about him before players like MMA and PuMA. Defs not an up and comer.
Thats the thing though Bomber came up around the same time as MMA so I didn't understand why you would classify him with MKP since MKP has been around forever while Bomber is quite new still.
MMA wasn't on the same level until like last month though. The first time we saw MMA it was in the team league in Feb. Where he got 3-kills against a then bad line up of Zenex player only to lose to Hack. It wasn't until late March that he became the hero of the team league, and it wasn't until the last month or two that he was talked about as one of the best terrans in the world. Also don't hate on PuMa kid was better than Bomber in BW, and he will soon be better than Bomber in SC2.
On July 07 2011 06:10 NexUmbra wrote: NesTea is by far the undisputed champion of Zerg.
MVP is certainly not.
MC is still the best imo, but not like NesTea where he is the reaper of nerd souls.
The thing is that NesTea and MC are undisputed champion of their races because there are SO FEW good protoss or zerg around. Their GSL runs were not incredible, except for NesTea season 2 but that was not comparable with Mvp period of dominance : Mvp trashed NesTea and MKP two times (GSL Code S S1 and Gainward), NaDa or TheStC, and 5-0ed an entire zerg line-up, while being on top of the ladder. Since there are many very good terrans it's harder to still be considered the "king", whereas MC and NesTea are top of their races despite relatively bad showings (same as Mvp) in several seasons. Oh and yeah MKP's era of dominance will start sooner or later, his nerves won't stop his incredible raw skill for too long.
How was GSL 3 not an impressive run? MC demolished all competition.
The only good player he beat was MKP.
jinro was considered best foreigner if not best terran at the time and he got destroyed. Nestea didnt face that great of players in his run either, besides MKP.
NesTea was 16-0 and MKP trashed badly the S1 finalists so it was much much harder than Rain... Pretty sure that Jinro wasn't considered best terran, only best foreigner.
On July 07 2011 06:10 NexUmbra wrote: NesTea is by far the undisputed champion of Zerg.
MVP is certainly not.
MC is still the best imo, but not like NesTea where he is the reaper of nerd souls.
The thing is that NesTea and MC are undisputed champion of their races because there are SO FEW good protoss or zerg around. Their GSL runs were not incredible, except for NesTea season 2 but that was not comparable with Mvp period of dominance : Mvp trashed NesTea and MKP two times (GSL Code S S1 and Gainward), NaDa or TheStC, and 5-0ed an entire zerg line-up, while being on top of the ladder. Since there are many very good terrans it's harder to still be considered the "king", whereas MC and NesTea are top of their races despite relatively bad showings (same as Mvp) in several seasons. Oh and yeah MKP's era of dominance will start sooner or later, his nerves won't stop his incredible raw skill for too long.
In the 2 Seasons MC has won GSL he absolutely crushed everyone in his path, it was total dominance.
On July 07 2011 06:10 NexUmbra wrote: NesTea is by far the undisputed champion of Zerg.
MVP is certainly not.
MC is still the best imo, but not like NesTea where he is the reaper of nerd souls.
The thing is that NesTea and MC are undisputed champion of their races because there are SO FEW good protoss or zerg around. Their GSL runs were not incredible, except for NesTea season 2 but that was not comparable with Mvp period of dominance : Mvp trashed NesTea and MKP two times (GSL Code S S1 and Gainward), NaDa or TheStC, and 5-0ed an entire zerg line-up, while being on top of the ladder. Since there are many very good terrans it's harder to still be considered the "king", whereas MC and NesTea are top of their races despite relatively bad showings (same as Mvp) in several seasons. Oh and yeah MKP's era of dominance will start sooner or later, his nerves won't stop his incredible raw skill for too long.
How was GSL 3 not an impressive run? MC demolished all competition.
The only good player he beat was MKP, whereas Mvp destroyed the zerg king and 2nd best terran.
At the time Terran basically couldn't lose to Zerg.
On July 07 2011 06:10 NexUmbra wrote: NesTea is by far the undisputed champion of Zerg.
MVP is certainly not.
MC is still the best imo, but not like NesTea where he is the reaper of nerd souls.
The thing is that NesTea and MC are undisputed champion of their races because there are SO FEW good protoss or zerg around. Their GSL runs were not incredible, except for NesTea season 2 but that was not comparable with Mvp period of dominance : Mvp trashed NesTea and MKP two times (GSL Code S S1 and Gainward), NaDa or TheStC, and 5-0ed an entire zerg line-up, while being on top of the ladder. Since there are many very good terrans it's harder to still be considered the "king", whereas MC and NesTea are top of their races despite relatively bad showings (same as Mvp) in several seasons. Oh and yeah MKP's era of dominance will start sooner or later, his nerves won't stop his incredible raw skill for too long.
How was GSL 3 not an impressive run? MC demolished all competition.
I think he just meant mvps period of domination was the most impressive. And to be fair, it really was. He absolutely demolished all competition for quite awhile. In the gainward tournament he 3-0ed NesTea in the finals. And in GSL1, he only lost a single map all season (when he went 3-1 against NesTea). This was a period of time where there wasn't a single player that was really capable of beating MVP.
On July 07 2011 06:10 NexUmbra wrote: NesTea is by far the undisputed champion of Zerg.
MVP is certainly not.
MC is still the best imo, but not like NesTea where he is the reaper of nerd souls.
The thing is that NesTea and MC are undisputed champion of their races because there are SO FEW good protoss or zerg around. Their GSL runs were not incredible, except for NesTea season 2 but that was not comparable with Mvp period of dominance : Mvp trashed NesTea and MKP two times (GSL Code S S1 and Gainward), NaDa or TheStC, and 5-0ed an entire zerg line-up, while being on top of the ladder. Since there are many very good terrans it's harder to still be considered the "king", whereas MC and NesTea are top of their races despite relatively bad showings (same as Mvp) in several seasons. Oh and yeah MKP's era of dominance will start sooner or later, his nerves won't stop his incredible raw skill for too long.
How was GSL 3 not an impressive run? MC demolished all competition.
The only good player he beat was MKP, whereas Mvp destroyed the zerg king and 2nd best terran.
At the time Terran basically couldn't lose to Zerg.
Huh? No? You're thinking of GSL1. Zerg's actually teared up GSL2... they had a 60% winrate vs. terran that season.
On July 07 2011 06:10 NexUmbra wrote: NesTea is by far the undisputed champion of Zerg.
MVP is certainly not.
MC is still the best imo, but not like NesTea where he is the reaper of nerd souls.
The thing is that NesTea and MC are undisputed champion of their races because there are SO FEW good protoss or zerg around. Their GSL runs were not incredible, except for NesTea season 2 but that was not comparable with Mvp period of dominance : Mvp trashed NesTea and MKP two times (GSL Code S S1 and Gainward), NaDa or TheStC, and 5-0ed an entire zerg line-up, while being on top of the ladder. Since there are many very good terrans it's harder to still be considered the "king", whereas MC and NesTea are top of their races despite relatively bad showings (same as Mvp) in several seasons. Oh and yeah MKP's era of dominance will start sooner or later, his nerves won't stop his incredible raw skill for too long.
How was GSL 3 not an impressive run? MC demolished all competition.
The only good player he beat was MKP, whereas Mvp destroyed the zerg king and 2nd best terran.
At the time Terran basically couldn't lose to Zerg.
BoxeR getting 4-0ed by NesTea disagrees. Kyrix who is super bad winning All-Star tournament with his busts disagrees. Oh and people expected IdrA and FruitDealer to not ever lose a ZvT because of supply before rax nerf , but I guess MKP saved terrans. edit : yeah I meant that Mvp dominated the most in between the Big 3, because he dominated better players. If you look at the rankings you'll see that he beat the actual top 4 except MC, whereas Rain, Jinro etc are not top 10 I think...
On July 07 2011 06:10 NexUmbra wrote: NesTea is by far the undisputed champion of Zerg.
MVP is certainly not.
MC is still the best imo, but not like NesTea where he is the reaper of nerd souls.
The thing is that NesTea and MC are undisputed champion of their races because there are SO FEW good protoss or zerg around. Their GSL runs were not incredible, except for NesTea season 2 but that was not comparable with Mvp period of dominance : Mvp trashed NesTea and MKP two times (GSL Code S S1 and Gainward), NaDa or TheStC, and 5-0ed an entire zerg line-up, while being on top of the ladder. Since there are many very good terrans it's harder to still be considered the "king", whereas MC and NesTea are top of their races despite relatively bad showings (same as Mvp) in several seasons. Oh and yeah MKP's era of dominance will start sooner or later, his nerves won't stop his incredible raw skill for too long.
How was GSL 3 not an impressive run? MC demolished all competition.
The only good player he beat was MKP, whereas Mvp destroyed the zerg king and 2nd best terran.
At the time Terran basically couldn't lose to Zerg.
Huh? No? You're thinking of GSL1. Zerg's actually teared up GSL2... they had a 60% winrate vs. terran that season.
On July 07 2011 06:32 Badjas wrote: I would love to see this as a repeating feature, nice writeup!
Thanks Man I will try there just aren not many up and coming players in the foreign scene, but the Korean scene changes so much that every 1-2 months I could probably do one!
On July 07 2011 06:10 NexUmbra wrote: NesTea is by far the undisputed champion of Zerg.
MVP is certainly not.
MC is still the best imo, but not like NesTea where he is the reaper of nerd souls.
The thing is that NesTea and MC are undisputed champion of their races because there are SO FEW good protoss or zerg around. Their GSL runs were not incredible, except for NesTea season 2 but that was not comparable with Mvp period of dominance : Mvp trashed NesTea and MKP two times (GSL Code S S1 and Gainward), NaDa or TheStC, and 5-0ed an entire zerg line-up, while being on top of the ladder. Since there are many very good terrans it's harder to still be considered the "king", whereas MC and NesTea are top of their races despite relatively bad showings (same as Mvp) in several seasons. Oh and yeah MKP's era of dominance will start sooner or later, his nerves won't stop his incredible raw skill for too long.
How was GSL 3 not an impressive run? MC demolished all competition.
The only good player he beat was MKP, whereas Mvp destroyed the zerg king and 2nd best terran.
At the time Terran basically couldn't lose to Zerg.
Huh? No? You're thinking of GSL1. Zerg's actually teared up GSL2... they had a 60% winrate vs. terran that season.
We're talking GSL Code S January.
Oh whoops, misread. Yea GSL January was not great for zergs. Too many terrible maps (even though the MU was pretty balanced)... jungle basin, close positions metal, shakuras with the back destructible rocks... it was a death trap for zerg lol. Zergs could win at the time but only if they got decent maps.
MC is still the best protoss, what he needs to show it is like semi-finals or finals in GSl where he takes it seriously AND can prepare, and HuK and NaNi really should be up with the other protoss guys, but a really nice write-up indeed!
On July 07 2011 06:10 NexUmbra wrote: NesTea is by far the undisputed champion of Zerg.
MVP is certainly not.
MC is still the best imo, but not like NesTea where he is the reaper of nerd souls.
The thing is that NesTea and MC are undisputed champion of their races because there are SO FEW good protoss or zerg around. Their GSL runs were not incredible, except for NesTea season 2 but that was not comparable with Mvp period of dominance : Mvp trashed NesTea and MKP two times (GSL Code S S1 and Gainward), NaDa or TheStC, and 5-0ed an entire zerg line-up, while being on top of the ladder. Since there are many very good terrans it's harder to still be considered the "king", whereas MC and NesTea are top of their races despite relatively bad showings (same as Mvp) in several seasons. Oh and yeah MKP's era of dominance will start sooner or later, his nerves won't stop his incredible raw skill for too long.
How was GSL 3 not an impressive run? MC demolished all competition.
The only good player he beat was MKP.
jinro was considered best foreigner if not best terran at the time and he got destroyed. Nestea didnt face that great of players in his run either, besides MKP.
Best foreigner yes. At no point was jinro ever considered the best terran (before the mvp era mkp was the best terran). Mvp had the most dominating run in january out of all champions, that's why his elo peak is the highest in sc2. Back in season 3, the only star mc beat was mkp. Jinro rose to his peak shortly after in gsl january, where he was overshadowed by mvp..
Nice write-up. Was an enjoyable read. I haven't kept up with the GSL for a while so I don't know some of the new guys like Line, Sage, Puzzle and CoCa. Hopefully HuK can be one of the new kings of Protoss. Meanwhile, I think GosI[Terran]/sixjaxMajOr would be one of the rising stars of Terran if he trained in Korea with a good coaching environment. That guy has such good mechanics; he just needs direction and refinement.
On July 06 2011 04:39 Ares[Effort] wrote: 100% agree on CoCa he will be a top zerg like EffOrt soon enough!
But EffOrt was next a top zerg. He was only ever 2nd top zerg with a huge gap between him and JD.
PuMa, DRG, and Sage. These guys are undercover bonjwas. I still think MC is the top Toss, but if anyone could push him it would be Sage and his revolutionary play. I think Puma is already the best terran. And DRG is good, theres no denying that, but I still think Nestea is the best zerg.
How bout a shoutout to the king of random, MVPGuineaPig. That guy keeps surprising people. He keeps randoming and winning mirror matches. Unheard of.
On July 07 2011 07:34 OdiousTea wrote: If only Losira had DRG's ZvT...
That would be impossible because then the only player that could beat him would be Nestea in Z v Z/ LosirA would be double the monster he is right now.
On July 07 2011 08:50 SafeAsCheese wrote: I find it hard to consider people best 6-12 month ago when the game was quite broken in a lot of respects, especially maps.
Yeah because zerg was insanely cheap when FD and NesTea won GSL 1 & 2 yes?
On July 07 2011 08:35 sjschmidt93 wrote: I would argue Jinro was the best Terran in the world after 2 top 4's and an MLG win.
Jinro didn't qualify season 1 or 2. Season 3, where he made his first top 4, he was dwarfed by a previous top 2 and then top 8 mkp. GSL january, where jinro made his 2nd top 4, he was dwarfed by mkp in ro4 and overshadowed by eventual winner mvp. Idk how you can say jinro was ever the top terran in the world. From gsl open season 2 to gsl jan, mkp was the best terran in the world. From gsl jan to april-may, mvp was the undisputed best terran in the world. Mvp's reign is a little shaky as of now but we'll see how that turns out.
You can argue that jinro was the best foreigner after 2 top 4s and an mlg win and easily the top foreign terran, but even now thorzain is the better pick for that spot.
On July 07 2011 08:50 SafeAsCheese wrote: I find it hard to consider people best 6-12 month ago when the game was quite broken in a lot of respects, especially maps.
Yeah because zerg was insanely cheap when FD and NesTea won GSL 1 & 2 yes?
FD would have lost to oGsTOP on kulas, knocking him out in the Ro8 if they played after the ultra was fixed Go youtube it if you like, and play the scenario in a unit tester.
Unless you think better upgraded thors lose to ultras nowadays ;p
On July 07 2011 08:35 sjschmidt93 wrote: I would argue Jinro was the best Terran in the world after 2 top 4's and an MLG win.
Jinro didn't qualify season 1 or 2. Season 3, where he made his first top 4, he was dwarfed by a previous top 2 and then top 8 mkp. GSL january, where jinro made his 2nd top 4, he was dwarfed by mkp in ro4 and overshadowed by eventual winner mvp. Idk how you can say jinro was ever the top terran in the world. From gsl open season 2 to gsl jan, mkp was the best terran in the world. From gsl jan to april-may, mvp was the undisputed best terran in the world. Mvp's reign is a little shaky as of now but we'll see how that turns out.
You can argue that jinro was the best foreigner after 2 top 4s and an mlg win and easily the top foreign terran, but even now thorzain is the better pick for that spot.
I said at that time, who cars if he didn't qualify for 1 and 2 or how bad he's been doing lately. He won an MLG and made to top 4's in the toughest tournament in the world in two months.
Consistency. MVP went out in Ro16 in GSL3 and MKP went out in Ro8 in GSL Jan., two tourneys Jinro got top 4 in.
On July 06 2011 04:48 hypno_toad wrote: I agree that MVP isn't the best anymore...But MC and Nestea are still the best of their races hands down
Would you say that MKP is the best for Terran right now? I know he's come second a lot but you can't deny how consistant a player he is.
@Tachion If we're going to call DRG the second best Zerg then we need to call MMA the best Terran. Team league kills don't mean anything, you need tournaments to put under your belt of which Idra has quite a few compared to DRG's team league kills.
IdrA has some foreign tournaments, so what. And no that would not make MMA the best Terran in the world, that would make him one of the best. Guess what? They're both in Code B. And DRG won the LG 3d Special League. That's a result. And in regards to MKP, he's not consistent at all. He's been knocked out in the Ro32 in every single Code S regular season save for January. NaDa, is consistent.
People need to stop bringing foreign tournaments into these as well. They don't matter to the Korean scene, that's why we have separate TLPD databases.
What are you on about he's been 2nd in GSL 3 times, that's consistency.
The thing is Jinro didn't beat anyone impressive, when it comes to top tier players he lost. Marineking, and MC. (MarineKing in Group stages and in Semis) I really hope MVP and MarineKing stop slumping.
I honestly think Destiny has a really good shot at becoming top zerg... His play with infestors, its so revolutionary, when he beat bomber 2-1 in (some tournament, theres like 231023101231 now) it was like "omg jizz" and day9 had a great time casting. First match of bo3 was like 1hr long.
On July 07 2011 08:50 SafeAsCheese wrote: I find it hard to consider people best 6-12 month ago when the game was quite broken in a lot of respects, especially maps.
Yeah because zerg was insanely cheap when FD and NesTea won GSL 1 & 2 yes?
FD would have lost to oGsTOP on kulas, knocking him out in the Ro8 if they played after the ultra was fixed Go youtube it if you like, and play the scenario in a unit tester.
Unless you think better upgraded thors lose to ultras nowadays ;p
And? The bottom line is this: TOP shouldn't have gone Thors. He deserved to lose that game because he basically gave the game to FD the instant he made the decision to mass Thors. Dude had the game in the bag, but then he dropped the ball. All FD did was respond; he thought he was dead, saw the Thors, realized that he wasn't out of the game yet, then decided to exploit a bug that everyone was already aware of, including TOP. TOP basically snatched defeat from the jaws of victory with that one decision, and that's all there is to it.
On July 07 2011 09:10 skrzmark wrote: The thing is Jinro didn't beat anyone impressive, when it comes to top tier players he lost. Marineking, and MC. (MarineKing in Group stages and in Semis) I really hope MVP and MarineKing stop slumping.
I don't know about MVP (I haven't gotten the chance to watch his games yet), but I don't think MKP is slumping? His play is still top-notch. I mean, if you want to say he's slumping, he's "slumping" in the same way that MC "slumps" at times.
On July 07 2011 08:35 sjschmidt93 wrote: I would argue Jinro was the best Terran in the world after 2 top 4's and an MLG win.
Jinro didn't qualify season 1 or 2. Season 3, where he made his first top 4, he was dwarfed by a previous top 2 and then top 8 mkp. GSL january, where jinro made his 2nd top 4, he was dwarfed by mkp in ro4 and overshadowed by eventual winner mvp. Idk how you can say jinro was ever the top terran in the world. From gsl open season 2 to gsl jan, mkp was the best terran in the world. From gsl jan to april-may, mvp was the undisputed best terran in the world. Mvp's reign is a little shaky as of now but we'll see how that turns out.
You can argue that jinro was the best foreigner after 2 top 4s and an mlg win and easily the top foreign terran, but even now thorzain is the better pick for that spot.
I said at that time, who cars if he didn't qualify for 1 and 2 or how bad he's been doing lately. He won an MLG and made to top 4's in the toughest tournament in the world in two months.
Consistency. MVP went out in Ro16 in GSL3 and MKP went out in Ro8 in GSL Jan., two tourneys Jinro got top 4 in.
Where are you pulling your facts from dude? Mkp didn't go out ro8 in gsl jan, he was a finalist. In fact, he was the one to knock jinro out in the ro4. You're sadly misinformed. At the time jinro was a 2x top 4 player, he was surpassed by both mkp and mvp. I don't care about mlg as the mlg he won didn't have koreans and was not a top top level tourny as a result. Like I said, best foreigner terran, not best terran. At that time jinro was a top 5 terran in the world, not the best though. Mkp/mvp shared that title during the transition between gsl 3 and gsl jan. Gsl jan was jinro's peak, the one where he knocked mc out in the ro16. Remember? That tourny was also the one where mkp knocked him out in the ro4, and the one where mvp took gold.
On July 07 2011 08:50 SafeAsCheese wrote: I find it hard to consider people best 6-12 month ago when the game was quite broken in a lot of respects, especially maps.
Yeah because zerg was insanely cheap when FD and NesTea won GSL 1 & 2 yes?
FD would have lost to oGsTOP on kulas, knocking him out in the Ro8 if they played after the ultra was fixed Go youtube it if you like, and play the scenario in a unit tester.
Unless you think better upgraded thors lose to ultras nowadays ;p
And? The bottom line is this: TOP shouldn't have gone Thors. He deserved to lose that game because he basically gave the game to FD the instant he made the decision to mass Thors. Dude had the game in the bag, but then he dropped the ball. All FD did was respond; he thought he was dead, saw the Thors, realized that he wasn't out of the game yet, then decided to exploit a bug that everyone was already aware of, including TOP. TOP basically snatched defeat from the jaws of victory with that one decision, and that's all there is to it.
On July 07 2011 09:10 skrzmark wrote: The thing is Jinro didn't beat anyone impressive, when it comes to top tier players he lost. Marineking, and MC. (MarineKing in Group stages and in Semis) I really hope MVP and MarineKing stop slumping.
I don't know about MVP (I haven't gotten the chance to watch his games yet), but I don't think MKP is slumping? His play is still top-notch. I mean, if you want to say he's slumping, he's "slumping" in the same way that MC "slumps" at times.
It still makes TOP a better player than Fruit. Already pretty much proved by recent results.
I'm not sure I'd call MVP the face of Terran anymore to be honest. To me he looks like another FruitDealer at the moment, having his moment then failing to produce results. I can't remember MVP getting anywhere in a GSL since the last time he won one.
On July 07 2011 08:50 SafeAsCheese wrote: I find it hard to consider people best 6-12 month ago when the game was quite broken in a lot of respects, especially maps.
Yeah because zerg was insanely cheap when FD and NesTea won GSL 1 & 2 yes?
FD would have lost to oGsTOP on kulas, knocking him out in the Ro8 if they played after the ultra was fixed Go youtube it if you like, and play the scenario in a unit tester.
Unless you think better upgraded thors lose to ultras nowadays ;p
And? The bottom line is this: TOP shouldn't have gone Thors. He deserved to lose that game because he basically gave the game to FD the instant he made the decision to mass Thors. Dude had the game in the bag, but then he dropped the ball. All FD did was respond; he thought he was dead, saw the Thors, realized that he wasn't out of the game yet, then decided to exploit a bug that everyone was already aware of, including TOP. TOP basically snatched defeat from the jaws of victory with that one decision, and that's all there is to it.
On July 07 2011 09:10 skrzmark wrote: The thing is Jinro didn't beat anyone impressive, when it comes to top tier players he lost. Marineking, and MC. (MarineKing in Group stages and in Semis) I really hope MVP and MarineKing stop slumping.
I don't know about MVP (I haven't gotten the chance to watch his games yet), but I don't think MKP is slumping? His play is still top-notch. I mean, if you want to say he's slumping, he's "slumping" in the same way that MC "slumps" at times.
It still makes TOP a better player than Fruit. Already pretty much proved by recent results.
Is TOP now a better player than FD? Yeah, sure. Was he a better player than FD in GSL1? Arguable, especially with that dumb game-changing decision, and especially considering that Zerg was UP as hell. One OP ultra bug != Zerg being OP, sorry to say. Zerg as a whole was really fucking horrible to play back during GSL1, and anyone who claims otherwise is just grasping at straws.
On July 07 2011 09:12 MERLIN. wrote: I honestly think Destiny has a really good shot at becoming top zerg... His play with infestors, its so revolutionary, when he beat bomber 2-1 in (some tournament, theres like 231023101231 now) it was like "omg jizz" and day9 had a great time casting. First match of bo3 was like 1hr long.
Compared to the koreans mentioned in the OP, destiny is bad.
I would have liked to see a picture of losira in the OP, he's pretty good you know. ^_^
There are some players making the cut because of some Tastosis hype (read: Alicia) - overall a very interesting read. I really want CoCa to hit his stride and become what we all think he can.
P.S. your TLPD is messed on Losira - hard to be Nestea's apprentice with (On the edit change the TLPD code that says P to a T and you can even change the database with a #sc2-Korean )
Man, I still remember when MVP was just another good Korean terran, then suddenly OMG HE'S THE BEST EVAR for 2 months, and now with all the many, many top terrans in Korea his hype train has kinda run out of steam.
Basically I never really got over my first impression, never believed his reign would last, and am not sad that it hasn't. Was never really a fan tbh.
On July 07 2011 08:50 SafeAsCheese wrote: I find it hard to consider people best 6-12 month ago when the game was quite broken in a lot of respects, especially maps.
Yeah because zerg was insanely cheap when FD and NesTea won GSL 1 & 2 yes?
FD would have lost to oGsTOP on kulas, knocking him out in the Ro8 if they played after the ultra was fixed Go youtube it if you like, and play the scenario in a unit tester.
Unless you think better upgraded thors lose to ultras nowadays ;p
And? The bottom line is this: TOP shouldn't have gone Thors. He deserved to lose that game because he basically gave the game to FD the instant he made the decision to mass Thors. Dude had the game in the bag, but then he dropped the ball. All FD did was respond; he thought he was dead, saw the Thors, realized that he wasn't out of the game yet, then decided to exploit a bug that everyone was already aware of, including TOP. TOP basically snatched defeat from the jaws of victory with that one decision, and that's all there is to it.
On July 07 2011 09:10 skrzmark wrote: The thing is Jinro didn't beat anyone impressive, when it comes to top tier players he lost. Marineking, and MC. (MarineKing in Group stages and in Semis) I really hope MVP and MarineKing stop slumping.
I don't know about MVP (I haven't gotten the chance to watch his games yet), but I don't think MKP is slumping? His play is still top-notch. I mean, if you want to say he's slumping, he's "slumping" in the same way that MC "slumps" at times.
Marineking hasn't made it past the group stages since GSL Jan.
On July 07 2011 09:36 bkrow wrote: There are some players making the cut because of some Tastosis hype (read: Alicia) - overall a very interesting read. I really want CoCa to hit his stride and become what we all think he can.
P.S. your TLPD is messed on Losira - hard to be Nestea's apprentice with (On the edit change the TLPD code that says P to a T and you can even change the database with a #sc2-Korean )
I think Alicia is more than hype, the guy is easily the second best toss in Korea as far as results go imo. Oh, and thank you for the tip on the TLPD, I couldn't for the life of me figure out how to fix it
On July 07 2011 09:36 The KY wrote: Man, I still remember when MVP was just another good Korean terran, then suddenly OMG HE'S THE BEST EVAR for 2 months, and now with all the many, many top terrans in Korea his hype train has kinda run out of steam.
Basically I never really got over my first impression, never believed his reign would last, and am not sad that it hasn't. Was never really a fan tbh.
No player has gotten the "omg best ever next bonjwa" type of feeling yet. Still awaiting the day for a true king to appear.
On July 06 2011 04:48 hypno_toad wrote: I agree that MVP isn't the best anymore...But MC and Nestea are still the best of their races hands down
Would you say that MKP is the best for Terran right now? I know he's come second a lot but you can't deny how consistant a player he is.
@Tachion If we're going to call DRG the second best Zerg then we need to call MMA the best Terran. Team league kills don't mean anything, you need tournaments to put under your belt of which Idra has quite a few compared to DRG's team league kills.
IdrA has some foreign tournaments, so what. And no that would not make MMA the best Terran in the world, that would make him one of the best. Guess what? They're both in Code B. And DRG won the LG 3d Special League. That's a result. And in regards to MKP, he's not consistent at all. He's been knocked out in the Ro32 in every single Code S regular season save for January. NaDa, is consistent.
People need to stop bringing foreign tournaments into these as well. They don't matter to the Korean scene, that's why we have separate TLPD databases.
What are you on about he's been 2nd in GSL 3 times, that's consistency.
He hasn't made it out of the group stage in 3 seasons, how is that consistent -.-
July won 3 starleagues in BW but was famous for being very inconsistent.
On July 06 2011 04:48 hypno_toad wrote: I agree that MVP isn't the best anymore...But MC and Nestea are still the best of their races hands down
Would you say that MKP is the best for Terran right now? I know he's come second a lot but you can't deny how consistant a player he is.
@Tachion If we're going to call DRG the second best Zerg then we need to call MMA the best Terran. Team league kills don't mean anything, you need tournaments to put under your belt of which Idra has quite a few compared to DRG's team league kills.
IdrA has some foreign tournaments, so what. And no that would not make MMA the best Terran in the world, that would make him one of the best. Guess what? They're both in Code B. And DRG won the LG 3d Special League. That's a result. And in regards to MKP, he's not consistent at all. He's been knocked out in the Ro32 in every single Code S regular season save for January. NaDa, is consistent.
People need to stop bringing foreign tournaments into these as well. They don't matter to the Korean scene, that's why we have separate TLPD databases.
What are you on about he's been 2nd in GSL 3 times, that's consistency.
He hasn't made it out of the group stage in 3 seasons, how is that consistent -.-
July won 3 starleagues in BW but was famous for being very inconsistent.
On July 06 2011 04:48 hypno_toad wrote: I agree that MVP isn't the best anymore...But MC and Nestea are still the best of their races hands down
Would you say that MKP is the best for Terran right now? I know he's come second a lot but you can't deny how consistant a player he is.
@Tachion If we're going to call DRG the second best Zerg then we need to call MMA the best Terran. Team league kills don't mean anything, you need tournaments to put under your belt of which Idra has quite a few compared to DRG's team league kills.
IdrA has some foreign tournaments, so what. And no that would not make MMA the best Terran in the world, that would make him one of the best. Guess what? They're both in Code B. And DRG won the LG 3d Special League. That's a result. And in regards to MKP, he's not consistent at all. He's been knocked out in the Ro32 in every single Code S regular season save for January. NaDa, is consistent.
People need to stop bringing foreign tournaments into these as well. They don't matter to the Korean scene, that's why we have separate TLPD databases.
What are you on about he's been 2nd in GSL 3 times, that's consistency.
He hasn't made it out of the group stage in 3 seasons, how is that consistent -.-
July won 3 starleagues in BW but was famous for being very inconsistent.
On July 06 2011 04:48 hypno_toad wrote: I agree that MVP isn't the best anymore...But MC and Nestea are still the best of their races hands down
Would you say that MKP is the best for Terran right now? I know he's come second a lot but you can't deny how consistant a player he is.
@Tachion If we're going to call DRG the second best Zerg then we need to call MMA the best Terran. Team league kills don't mean anything, you need tournaments to put under your belt of which Idra has quite a few compared to DRG's team league kills.
IdrA has some foreign tournaments, so what. And no that would not make MMA the best Terran in the world, that would make him one of the best. Guess what? They're both in Code B. And DRG won the LG 3d Special League. That's a result. And in regards to MKP, he's not consistent at all. He's been knocked out in the Ro32 in every single Code S regular season save for January. NaDa, is consistent.
People need to stop bringing foreign tournaments into these as well. They don't matter to the Korean scene, that's why we have separate TLPD databases.
What are you on about he's been 2nd in GSL 3 times, that's consistency.
He hasn't made it out of the group stage in 3 seasons, how is that consistent -.-
July won 3 starleagues in BW but was famous for being very inconsistent.
You could call that consistency in a way :p
Depends on what you define as consistent.
Nada: Ro4 once and Ro8 like almost every other time
On July 07 2011 08:50 SafeAsCheese wrote: I find it hard to consider people best 6-12 month ago when the game was quite broken in a lot of respects, especially maps.
Yeah because zerg was insanely cheap when FD and NesTea won GSL 1 & 2 yes?
FD would have lost to oGsTOP on kulas, knocking him out in the Ro8 if they played after the ultra was fixed Go youtube it if you like, and play the scenario in a unit tester.
Unless you think better upgraded thors lose to ultras nowadays ;p
And? The bottom line is this: TOP shouldn't have gone Thors. He deserved to lose that game because he basically gave the game to FD the instant he made the decision to mass Thors. Dude had the game in the bag, but then he dropped the ball. All FD did was respond; he thought he was dead, saw the Thors, realized that he wasn't out of the game yet, then decided to exploit a bug that everyone was already aware of, including TOP. TOP basically snatched defeat from the jaws of victory with that one decision, and that's all there is to it.
On July 07 2011 09:10 skrzmark wrote: The thing is Jinro didn't beat anyone impressive, when it comes to top tier players he lost. Marineking, and MC. (MarineKing in Group stages and in Semis) I really hope MVP and MarineKing stop slumping.
I don't know about MVP (I haven't gotten the chance to watch his games yet), but I don't think MKP is slumping? His play is still top-notch. I mean, if you want to say he's slumping, he's "slumping" in the same way that MC "slumps" at times.
Marineking hasn't made it past the group stages since GSL Jan.
I was under the impression that slumping = when a player consistently underperforms (i.e. he plays worse than he is supposed to play) for an extended period of time. Slumping results in disappointing tournament results, but disappointing tournament results do not necessarily mean that that player is slumping. People who are in slumps are people like Jinro, FruitDealer, and Check (who recently appears to be getting out of his slump); they've shown brilliant play in the past but have not been able to re-attain that level of play for a long, long time.
MKP has, on the other hand, shown some really great, solid play recently (GSL ST, NASL, etc.), just not in GSL Code S unfortunately, whose group stages are, let's not forget, BO1s, which tend to be very, very volatile. He's still a scary player, and I don't think he's lost any of his shine recently.
On July 07 2011 10:00 Ralarala wrote: I think HuK should be somewhere up there because of his HSC and DHS wins
Not convinced those things merit him being placed high. He won HSC, but it wasn't a dominating barn-burning like Nani's MLG Dallas (as an example, not asserting Nani's there either).
However, if he plays the rest of the tournament like he did this first round, he's going to effing win. He was absolutely terrifying in that group, not just because he won 2-0, but because his play was absolutely immaculate.
If he makes Ro8, he's definitely on this list. Because his Ro16 match is oGsMC.
On July 06 2011 04:48 hypno_toad wrote: I agree that MVP isn't the best anymore...But MC and Nestea are still the best of their races hands down
Would you say that MKP is the best for Terran right now? I know he's come second a lot but you can't deny how consistant a player he is.
@Tachion If we're going to call DRG the second best Zerg then we need to call MMA the best Terran. Team league kills don't mean anything, you need tournaments to put under your belt of which Idra has quite a few compared to DRG's team league kills.
IdrA has some foreign tournaments, so what. And no that would not make MMA the best Terran in the world, that would make him one of the best. Guess what? They're both in Code B. And DRG won the LG 3d Special League. That's a result. And in regards to MKP, he's not consistent at all. He's been knocked out in the Ro32 in every single Code S regular season save for January. NaDa, is consistent.
People need to stop bringing foreign tournaments into these as well. They don't matter to the Korean scene, that's why we have separate TLPD databases.
What are you on about he's been 2nd in GSL 3 times, that's consistency.
He hasn't made it out of the group stage in 3 seasons, how is that consistent -.-
July won 3 starleagues in BW but was famous for being very inconsistent.
You could call that consistency in a way :p
Depends on what you define as consistent.
Clide and Genius are also consistent imo (Clide makes it into Ro16 everytime and Genius has done the same bar 1 time(?))
IMO GSL Bonjwa's: Zerg: NesTea, Terran: Mvp, Protoss: MC Ladder/GSTL Bonjwa's Zerg: DongRaeGu Terran: PuMa, Protoss: Sage these are the best korean players they have the ability to beat anyone (each other as well)
On July 07 2011 10:26 Mutality wrote: IMO GSL Bonjwa's: Zerg: NesTea, Terran: Mvp, Protoss: MC Ladder/GSTL Bonjwa's Zerg: DongRaeGu Terran: PuMa, Protoss: Sage these are the best korean players they have the ability to beat anyone (each other as well)
On July 07 2011 10:00 Ralarala wrote: I think HuK should be somewhere up there because of his HSC and DHS wins
If he should be up there, it should be because of how dominating he was yesterday. I mean he read aLive like a book and completely outplayed him in pretty much every aspect of that game.
I think this article was really necessary, especially now coming to the one year anniversary of the release. I was really surprised not to see HuK there, but I understand since he is yet to make a breakthrough in the GSL. Nevertheless, with the results of last night, he really does deserve to be in this list.
On July 07 2011 12:17 Ciraxis wrote: I think this article was really necessary, especially now coming to the one year anniversary of the release. I was really surprised not to see HuK there, but I understand since he is yet to make a breakthrough in the GSL. Nevertheless, with the results of last night, he really does deserve to be in this list.
After last night I honestly do wish I could go back and add him. In another month or two I might write another if people want it, and then he will definitely be included!
have to agree all the way with DRG, alicia kinda should be the best protoss in korea, but it hasn't really worked out that way, you see every time he plays in gsl, he somehow, someway gets that hardest 1st round opponent(s)
This article is great. I especially like Sage, DRG, and Puma.
It's so sad that there's virtually no new NA talent to speak of. In most major tournaments, we seem to see the same dudes over and over again with little to no improvement. It's kinda depressing.
I love writeups like this. My only criticism is that you mention Artosis too much. Try to talk about multiple people's opinions of players instead of just mentioning artosis a bunch.
On July 07 2011 15:56 BearChocolate wrote: I love writeups like this. My only criticism is that you mention Artosis too much. Try to talk about multiple people's opinions of players instead of just mentioning artosis a bunch.
He's the best analytical english commentator in Korea, and he actually gives his opinions on the players. I only mention him twice really.
EPT
FruitDealer![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qN2Kz.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zVYVB.png)
MC![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/MPjwQ.jpg)
MVP![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/PyXOR.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/emvIf.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/rGFYt.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ptcHL.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/NM2qn.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/SZYzb.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/v9BW7.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/yXTVn.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/30PhB.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/eHMSk.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/oSqhn.png)
he will be a top zerg like 
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/JnhFZ.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/LAzaH.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/7YoBi.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/081nQ.jpg)
Go youtube it if you like, and play the scenario in a unit tester.
