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This isn't going to turn into another LoL vs (all other games apparently) thread. You can speak your mind about the selection of games but keep it civil. |
On June 28 2011 01:09 Silvanel wrote:
There is so much misinformation concerning LoL, even in this thread. You guys should try it out before criticizing. And yeah, game gets 200k viewers because its terrible from spectator point of view....that makes sens yes?
I don't want to be a troll, but I play LoL when I want to relax because it's easy. It dont suck all your energy unlike a 30min game in sc2. I can drink a coffee, light a smoke because you dont need 150 apm. There is no multitasking, no macro, just some micro with one unit and a little decision making, like "they are 3, I'm alone, hmmkay I b". LoL is more about teamplay and compo.
In my regard LoL is a good game for causals, and that's why there are 200k viewers but nothing to do with e-sports. As I said, it's my humble opinion.
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On June 28 2011 01:56 Daray wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 01:49 JKira wrote:
Why all the LoL bashing? People really think it's a terrible game? Like literally ALL of my friends and more play LoL and a select few play SC2 on a regular basis with me. Only reason I don't play LoL is because I suck at DoTA type games and don't have the time or dedication to try to get good at them. You're missing the point. Game can be fun and a lot of people might play it but that doesn't mean that it should be pushed as an esport.
Umm, thats one of the core parts of making something an esport. The game needs to be fun and a lot of people need to play or be willing to watch. Lol has both.
And while Riot does do a shitty job supporting the tournament scene with tech like obs mode and replays, they are willing to front money and use their beta obs mode for big tournaments.
As for skill, there is a very low physical skill ceiling in lol. There is a HUGE knowledge skill ceiling. Unlike SC2 where knowing how to do a build and executing it are on different planes, in LoL knowing how to do something is much more important than physically doing it. If anyone who says "lol is so easy I could beat any of these guys and I dont even play" are completely wrong. Any top player could dominate you in lane. And even if they started late game with a full build on both sides you would still lose simply because the pro's know what to do at all times.
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So DotA for kiddies is part of IEM now? Unfortunate but I do suppose the quake scene has been dying 
Still psyched for the sc2 portion though, the total prizepool/players etc. is going to be sick!
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On June 28 2011 01:50 Tippecanoe wrote:
Considering LoL got over 20k viewers more than sc2 even it doesn't suprise me that they would remove Quake.
i thought everyone was saying that the stream counts for lol were heavily bugged by game client / own3d.tv?
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CoD PS3 at MLG is the next game to be cycled out.
Most multiplayer games, while competitive, just aren't suited to be e-sports (WoW is another example).
edit: I wonder what the pro QL players (rapha, cypher, cooller etc.) will do now. Can't make money without tournaments.
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On June 28 2011 02:04 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 01:50 Tippecanoe wrote:
Considering LoL got over 20k viewers more than sc2 even it doesn't suprise me that they would remove Quake. i thought everyone was saying that the stream counts for lol were heavily bugged by game client / own3d.tv?
Those are speculations and rumors thanks to the fact that Riot put a splash-page hyperlink for the DH tournament stream in their game client. (People thought it actually streamed in the game client and counted each player logging on their account for LoL as a viewer.... it was just a link to the webpage and only counted viewers who went to the stream...)
I'm not sure why so many people hate on LoL.. Sure its not as complex as DotA/HoN with denial and those runes in the river, but LoL has plenty of the same challenges that any MOBA does.. teamwork, finesse and micro, knowing your champion type, what items to build and when, when to gank a lane, when to push a lane, when to put wards down, when to try for big creep kills...
Everyone makes it seem like LoL takes 0 skill to play, like its some sort of Iphone App... It's a simpler version of classic DotA that allows the individuals to determine the outcome of the games rather than individual+raw luck/exploit knowledge..
I dunno, I really like playing LoL even after playing HoN and DotA, its simpler and its not a bad thing.
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Bet the "Asian" stop of IEM is in Malaysia or Taiwan again.
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On June 28 2011 02:17 learning wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 02:04 turdburgler wrote:On June 28 2011 01:50 Tippecanoe wrote:
Considering LoL got over 20k viewers more than sc2 even it doesn't suprise me that they would remove Quake. i thought everyone was saying that the stream counts for lol were heavily bugged by game client / own3d.tv? Those are speculations and rumors thanks to the fact that Riot put a splash-page hyperlink for the DH tournament stream in their game client. (People thought it actually streamed in the game client and counted each player logging on their account for LoL as a viewer.... it was just a link to the webpage and only counted viewers who went to the stream...) I'm not sure why so many people hate on LoL.. Sure its not as complex as DotA/HoN with denial and those runes in the river, but LoL has plenty of the same challenges that any MOBA does.. teamwork, finesse and micro, knowing your champion type, what items to build and when, when to gank a lane, when to push a lane, when to put wards down, when to try for big creep kills... Everyone makes it seem like LoL takes 0 skill to play, like its some sort of Iphone App... It's a simpler version of classic DotA that allows the individuals to determine the outcome of the games rather than individual+raw luck/exploit knowledge.. I dunno, I really like playing LoL even after playing HoN and DotA, its simpler and its not a bad thing.
You're saying it yourself, LoL is simple, where skill doesn't really matter. So it's a bad thing to replace QL by LoL in a major e-sports tournament.
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On June 28 2011 02:23 Gevna wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 02:17 learning wrote:On June 28 2011 02:04 turdburgler wrote:On June 28 2011 01:50 Tippecanoe wrote:
Considering LoL got over 20k viewers more than sc2 even it doesn't suprise me that they would remove Quake. i thought everyone was saying that the stream counts for lol were heavily bugged by game client / own3d.tv? Those are speculations and rumors thanks to the fact that Riot put a splash-page hyperlink for the DH tournament stream in their game client. (People thought it actually streamed in the game client and counted each player logging on their account for LoL as a viewer.... it was just a link to the webpage and only counted viewers who went to the stream...) I'm not sure why so many people hate on LoL.. Sure its not as complex as DotA/HoN with denial and those runes in the river, but LoL has plenty of the same challenges that any MOBA does.. teamwork, finesse and micro, knowing your champion type, what items to build and when, when to gank a lane, when to push a lane, when to put wards down, when to try for big creep kills... Everyone makes it seem like LoL takes 0 skill to play, like its some sort of Iphone App... It's a simpler version of classic DotA that allows the individuals to determine the outcome of the games rather than individual+raw luck/exploit knowledge.. I dunno, I really like playing LoL even after playing HoN and DotA, its simpler and its not a bad thing. You're saying it yourself, LoL is simple, where skill doesn't really matter. So it's a bad thing to replace QL by LoL in a major e-sports tournament.
he said its simpl(ER). a post above said the physical skill cap isnt as high as other games, but the knowledge cap is very high, which is a very good description. individually it isnt as strenuous as sc2, but as a 5-player game, the team play can be pretty heavy going. i regularly play with 4 other friends and theres a lot of thought that goes into the characters, builds, items, team battles, farming etc etc
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On June 27 2011 23:30 labbe wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2011 23:28 Dust14 wrote:On June 27 2011 23:22 labbe wrote:
WHAT? LoL instead of QL? What is happening to this world... Not much really, money rules the world today and guess what Riot has to spare. Still a sad thing to happen, I really like watching QL Yeah, well I mean... I never really understood these Dota-games as an Esport. I don't find them entertaining to watch at all. They are fun to play and all, but to watch? No. Maybe that's just me though.
League of legends had more than 250k people watching at Dreamhack and they broke 80k for their season one qualifiers. They really put starcraft viewer numbers to shame so while you might not think LoL and other "DotA-games" aren't entertaining to watch I'd put you in the minority.
I enjoy both games personally though so I hope Warpprism has plans of supporting watching sc2 and league at the same time 
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On June 28 2011 02:23 Gevna wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 02:17 learning wrote:On June 28 2011 02:04 turdburgler wrote:On June 28 2011 01:50 Tippecanoe wrote:
Considering LoL got over 20k viewers more than sc2 even it doesn't suprise me that they would remove Quake. i thought everyone was saying that the stream counts for lol were heavily bugged by game client / own3d.tv? Those are speculations and rumors thanks to the fact that Riot put a splash-page hyperlink for the DH tournament stream in their game client. (People thought it actually streamed in the game client and counted each player logging on their account for LoL as a viewer.... it was just a link to the webpage and only counted viewers who went to the stream...) I'm not sure why so many people hate on LoL.. Sure its not as complex as DotA/HoN with denial and those runes in the river, but LoL has plenty of the same challenges that any MOBA does.. teamwork, finesse and micro, knowing your champion type, what items to build and when, when to gank a lane, when to push a lane, when to put wards down, when to try for big creep kills... Everyone makes it seem like LoL takes 0 skill to play, like its some sort of Iphone App... It's a simpler version of classic DotA that allows the individuals to determine the outcome of the games rather than individual+raw luck/exploit knowledge.. I dunno, I really like playing LoL even after playing HoN and DotA, its simpler and its not a bad thing. You're saying it yourself, LoL is simple, where skill doesn't really matter. So it's a bad thing to replace QL by LoL in a major e-sports tournament.
He said its simpler then Dota or HoN. Not that it is simple and skilless. Some people just dont understand how imensly complicated MOBA games are compared to some "e-sports" titles.
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On June 28 2011 02:31 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2011 23:30 labbe wrote:On June 27 2011 23:28 Dust14 wrote:On June 27 2011 23:22 labbe wrote:
WHAT? LoL instead of QL? What is happening to this world... Not much really, money rules the world today and guess what Riot has to spare. Still a sad thing to happen, I really like watching QL Yeah, well I mean... I never really understood these Dota-games as an Esport. I don't find them entertaining to watch at all. They are fun to play and all, but to watch? No. Maybe that's just me though. League of legends had more than 250k people watching at Dreamhack and they broke 80k for their season one qualifiers. They really put starcraft viewer numbers to shame so while you might not think LoL and other "DotA-games" aren't entertaining to watch I'd put you in the minority. I enjoy both games personally though so I hope Warpprism has plans of supporting watching sc2 and league at the same time
i would rather watch paint dry than lol, it might have bigger audience (its new, free, also easy for casuals) but that doesnt change its garbage esport game with almost no competitive gameplay compered to real games like QL
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On June 28 2011 02:36 velocityqt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 02:31 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On June 27 2011 23:30 labbe wrote:On June 27 2011 23:28 Dust14 wrote:On June 27 2011 23:22 labbe wrote:
WHAT? LoL instead of QL? What is happening to this world... Not much really, money rules the world today and guess what Riot has to spare. Still a sad thing to happen, I really like watching QL Yeah, well I mean... I never really understood these Dota-games as an Esport. I don't find them entertaining to watch at all. They are fun to play and all, but to watch? No. Maybe that's just me though. League of legends had more than 250k people watching at Dreamhack and they broke 80k for their season one qualifiers. They really put starcraft viewer numbers to shame so while you might not think LoL and other "DotA-games" aren't entertaining to watch I'd put you in the minority. I enjoy both games personally though so I hope Warpprism has plans of supporting watching sc2 and league at the same time i would rather watch paint dry than lol, it might have bigger audience (its new, free, also easy for casuals) but that doesnt change its garbage esport game with almost no competitive gameplay compered to real games like QL
Velocityqt you summed it up nicely.
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On June 28 2011 02:36 velocityqt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 02:31 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On June 27 2011 23:30 labbe wrote:On June 27 2011 23:28 Dust14 wrote:On June 27 2011 23:22 labbe wrote:
WHAT? LoL instead of QL? What is happening to this world... Not much really, money rules the world today and guess what Riot has to spare. Still a sad thing to happen, I really like watching QL Yeah, well I mean... I never really understood these Dota-games as an Esport. I don't find them entertaining to watch at all. They are fun to play and all, but to watch? No. Maybe that's just me though. League of legends had more than 250k people watching at Dreamhack and they broke 80k for their season one qualifiers. They really put starcraft viewer numbers to shame so while you might not think LoL and other "DotA-games" aren't entertaining to watch I'd put you in the minority. I enjoy both games personally though so I hope Warpprism has plans of supporting watching sc2 and league at the same time i would rather watch paint dry than lol, it might have bigger audience (its new, free, also easy for casuals) but that doesnt change its garbage esport game with almost no competitive gameplay compered to real games like QL
That's your opinion, but there are many other people who disagree with you. Old scenes are dying and new ones are rising up from their ashes. I was saying very similar things about starcraft 2 when it started killing the warcraft 3 scene, but my opinions have changed. Quake Live might be a good game, but it's just not popular anymore and it doesn't get the viewers that the newer ones do.
If League is as easy and skill less as all of you think it is go join the TL team or make your own and steal all the prize money.
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l0l at all the people thinking that LoL doesnt 'deserve' to be an esport. You people are so two-faced, you say that you want to 'promote esports' with SC2, and you turn around and condemn a game you probably haven't even played because its not 'elite' enough for esports makes you a fucking hypocrite. You are legitimately saying that the people who work hard and practice this game for countless hours don't deserve anything for being the best at what they do.
I'm totally cool with you disliking LoL, hell I welcome it, tell me what you hate about it so that maybe it can become better, but saying that it doesn't deserve to be an esport just because 'it's DOTA for kiddies' is as arbitrary (and retarded) as me saying that baseball isn't a sport because its not 'competitive enough'.
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What's next, CoD? If they wanted a MOBA game they should have included DoTA not LoL.
And I thought e-sports was also about having an entertaining game to watch? SC2 and QL fill that role quite easily. CS and LoL make me want to spend my time doing something else.
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A friend of mine and I were talking about the differences in viewership at DH between LoL and SC2.
We came to the determination that the reason we watched the LoL stream was the team aspect.
It seems that SC2 is all about the big names and not the teams (as it was in SCBW).
We enjoyed the SCBW tourneys where teams set matchups of the players to advance. The added strategy outside of the game made the games enjoyable and more entertaining to watch.
The same can be said for LoL in that regard. It just happens in champion selection.
I like watching SC. I like watching LoL. At the moment, both of them have a huge following. I believe that both are worthy ESports titles until viewership drops to a point where they are not bringing attention to the overall scene.
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Very glad to see LoL made it in, but at the same time i'm sad it had to replace QL .
I play a lot of LoL myself but QL was great fun too watch ^^
edit:
lol @ all the whiners in this thread.
QL gets like 30k viewers, LoL 200k
Believe me that's not a hard choice for IEM.
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I don't understand the LoL hate, shooters are the games that I doubt as eSports, they're just not much fun to watch. LoL is very fun to play and fairly fun to watch as well. It sort of feels like watching soccer to me, slow-paced with short bursts of action. Fun to watch with friends, not really something I would do on my own.
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+ Show Spoiler +On June 28 2011 02:30 th3_great wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 02:23 Gevna wrote:On June 28 2011 02:17 learning wrote:On June 28 2011 02:04 turdburgler wrote:On June 28 2011 01:50 Tippecanoe wrote:
Considering LoL got over 20k viewers more than sc2 even it doesn't suprise me that they would remove Quake. i thought everyone was saying that the stream counts for lol were heavily bugged by game client / own3d.tv? Those are speculations and rumors thanks to the fact that Riot put a splash-page hyperlink for the DH tournament stream in their game client. (People thought it actually streamed in the game client and counted each player logging on their account for LoL as a viewer.... it was just a link to the webpage and only counted viewers who went to the stream...) I'm not sure why so many people hate on LoL.. Sure its not as complex as DotA/HoN with denial and those runes in the river, but LoL has plenty of the same challenges that any MOBA does.. teamwork, finesse and micro, knowing your champion type, what items to build and when, when to gank a lane, when to push a lane, when to put wards down, when to try for big creep kills... Everyone makes it seem like LoL takes 0 skill to play, like its some sort of Iphone App... It's a simpler version of classic DotA that allows the individuals to determine the outcome of the games rather than individual+raw luck/exploit knowledge.. I dunno, I really like playing LoL even after playing HoN and DotA, its simpler and its not a bad thing. You're saying it yourself, LoL is simple, where skill doesn't really matter. So it's a bad thing to replace QL by LoL in a major e-sports tournament. he said its simpl(ER). a post above said the physical skill cap isnt as high as other games, but the knowledge cap is very high, which is a very good description. individually it isnt as strenuous as sc2, but as a 5-player game, the team play can be pretty heavy going. i regularly play with 4 other friends and theres a lot of thought that goes into the characters, builds, items, team battles, farming etc etc
The problem that most people have with LoL is that it is a simplified version of dota. There is a huge difference in skill between the top LoL players and the top HoN/dota players. Just because there are 200k people watching a stream does not make it an esport.
I reckon that if Zynga was to advertise a Farmville stream as much as Riot advertised LoL they would get approximately the same number of viewers. But just because there are a lot of viewers does not suddenly make the game a huge ESPORTS phenomena.
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EPT
