On May 24 2012 09:04 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote: Day9/the panel completely ignoring the distinction between getting into esports for the money (which clearly Day9 didn't) and becoming a corporate shill once the money comes in (which imo Day9 has become).
I think as well that clearly Day9 loved Brood War but probably just likes Sc2 and is more in it for the money, not solely for the money mind you. You can tell as soon as he mentions Brood War that it just means far more to him.
Have you ever watched any of the old dailies? I'm just asking because you make it sound like you know what you are talking about but then you shoot yourself in the foot. First you say he isn't in sc2 for the money and then you say he is. Which is it?
He made dailies about the first sc2 battle reports before the beta even started, how the fuck is that being in it for the money?
Sc2 took off, the bubble expanded, you know what I'm talking about but something else could have happened. He can make a living doing what he loves now but if he didn't, I'm pretty sure he would still make the daily. Nothing came falling off the sky for him, he worked hard. Now if in your opinion you think he doesn't deserve it or that he isn't doing the most he can for the grow of esports now it's another subject ,which can be discussed if you like ,but when you are somehow acting like you know why he does this or that without knowing what the hell are you talking about it's very infuriating.
So either explain your point well, know what you are talking about or just be honest and say you don't like him.
That is your personal subjective opinion plus some "factual" statements that you have no actual evidence for other than "I feel it is so". What's hard to understand? Seems pretty simple to me.
Day9 got into esports because he loved Brood War, he got into Sc2 because he loved Brood War.
In Sc2 his number one priority is taking pay cheques from big business to make Sc2 or any general gaming related content (he's not really bothered what they want from him anymore provided esports dollars are changing hands).
This wasn't an overnight process, this was a gradual transition from the beta where he was a player, to early sc2 where he was a caster and content maker with his finger of the pulse of the scene to the current state of day9 where his dailies are more stale than a year old dairy product and his knowledge of the game and pro scene is really poor.
He adds absolutely nothing to any discussion on any shows he attends (not the he really does them anymore unless he has a product to sell (i.e the latest Red Bull foray into Esports or the After Hours Gaming League, which is terrible by the way, but Day9 doesn't care because he's making money from it) other than to be 100% positive about everything and anything because he wouldn't want to ruin his public image by having an opinion on something.
I honestly can't remember the last time I heard him say something genuinely interesting about anything in Sc2, unlike say Artosis, Tyler, Incontrol, Idra and DjWheat who act like real people with real opinions instead of an infomercial presenter.
No shit it's my opinion, that's why I posted it under my username.
And the second part where you state things as facts without anything with any weigth supporting them ?
As there's absolutely zero figures or statistics in the post you quoted there's really nothing to defend in the first place.
Typical example. Please provide some data for your 80% number ? Or some other high number of your choosing. I think you suffer from very selective memory. Because you have no actual arguments.
You're a funny guy. I love fanboys, and man does Day9 have some fanboys. It's a typical example because it's damn well true and you and every other Day9 fanboy knows it.
Are you seriously claiming Day9 follows the professional scene to an acceptable level?
People expect so little of their casters in this game. What guys like Total Biscuit, HD, Husky and Day9 get away with is comparable to football commentators not watching the World Cup or Champions League because they didn't get a casting gig to do it, and yet so many of our prominent casters don't watch tournaments they don't commentate.
Exceptions to this include Artosis, Wolf, DjWheat, Khaldor and CatzPyjamas who regardless of their casting or playing ability definitely follow the scene as much as they can and watch everything because they love the game.
On May 24 2012 09:04 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote: Day9/the panel completely ignoring the distinction between getting into esports for the money (which clearly Day9 didn't) and becoming a corporate shill once the money comes in (which imo Day9 has become).
I think as well that clearly Day9 loved Brood War but probably just likes Sc2 and is more in it for the money, not solely for the money mind you. You can tell as soon as he mentions Brood War that it just means far more to him.
Have you ever watched any of the old dailies? I'm just asking because you make it sound like you know what you are talking about but then you shoot yourself in the foot. First you say he isn't in sc2 for the money and then you say he is. Which is it?
He made dailies about the first sc2 battle reports before the beta even started, how the fuck is that being in it for the money?
Sc2 took off, the bubble expanded, you know what I'm talking about but something else could have happened. He can make a living doing what he loves now but if he didn't, I'm pretty sure he would still make the daily. Nothing came falling off the sky for him, he worked hard. Now if in your opinion you think he doesn't deserve it or that he isn't doing the most he can for the grow of esports now it's another subject ,which can be discussed if you like ,but when you are somehow acting like you know why he does this or that without knowing what the hell are you talking about it's very infuriating.
So either explain your point well, know what you are talking about or just be honest and say you don't like him.
That is your personal subjective opinion plus some "factual" statements that you have no actual evidence for other than "I feel it is so". What's hard to understand? Seems pretty simple to me.
Day9 got into esports because he loved Brood War, he got into Sc2 because he loved Brood War.
In Sc2 his number one priority is taking pay cheques from big business to make Sc2 or any general gaming related content (he's not really bothered what they want from him anymore provided esports dollars are changing hands).
This wasn't an overnight process, this was a gradual transition from the beta where he was a player, to early sc2 where he was a caster and content maker with his finger of the pulse of the scene to the current state of day9 where his dailies are more stale than a year old dairy product and his knowledge of the game and pro scene is really poor.
He adds absolutely nothing to any discussion on any shows he attends (not the he really does them anymore unless he has a product to sell (i.e the latest Red Bull foray into Esports or the After Hours Gaming League, which is terrible by the way, but Day9 doesn't care because he's making money from it) other than to be 100% positive about everything and anything because he wouldn't want to ruin his public image by having an opinion on something.
I honestly can't remember the last time I heard him say something genuinely interesting about anything in Sc2, unlike say Artosis, Tyler, Incontrol, Idra and DjWheat who act like real people with real opinions instead of an infomercial presenter.
No shit it's my opinion, that's why I posted it under my username.
And the second part where you state things as facts without anything with any weigth supporting them ?
As there's absolutely zero figures or statistics in the post you quoted there's really nothing to defend in the first place.
In Sc2 his number one priority is taking pay cheques from big business to make Sc2 or any general gaming related content (he's not really bothered what they want from him anymore provided esports dollars are changing hands).
Statement of fact, not an opinion. Here you assign priorities and motivations to another person based on your "feel". Are you his close friend that you know that. Because he does not display any clear signs that it is the case, so how do you know that ? Are you a mind reader ?
After Hours Gaming League, which is terrible by the way, but Day9 doesn't care because he's making money from it
Please show us the accounting data for this claim ?
The rest is opinions about subjective tastes. Worse even they are pure vague catchphrases instead of any attempt to actually argue what it is that Day[9] is doing wrong.
who the fuck cares if someone is in it for the money? dude is still doing solid work and growing the scene. we will never know why anyone is actually in esports because only they truly know.
I like how when people first were able to make money off of sc2 everyone is like this is awesome. but now its like well he's only in it for the money. how dare he try to make a decent living.
I think it's awesome that day makes good money at what he does. I think its awesome that huk makes 6 figures. I think its awesome that PPV is working for MLG and helping them become a very stable company for the first time in history.
People/teams/players making money off of this game is a great thing. it's showing that this isn't just a hobby or passion project. its a legit scene
On May 24 2012 10:43 mcc wrote: Typical example. Please provide some data for your 80% number ? Or some other high number of your choosing. I think you suffer from very selective memory. Because you have no actual arguments.
You're a funny guy. I love fanboys, and man does Day9 have some fanboys. It's a typical example because it's damn well true and you and every other Day9 fanboy knows it.
Are you seriously claiming Day9 follows the professional scene to an acceptable level?
People expect so little of their casters in this game. What guys like Total Biscuit, HD, Husky and Day9 get away with is comparable to football commentators not watching the World Cup or Champions League because they didn't get a casting gig to do it, and yet so many of our prominent casters don't watch tournaments they don't commentate.
Exceptions to this include Artosis, Wolf, DjWheat, Khaldor and CatzPyjamas who regardless of their casting or playing ability definitely follow the scene as much as they can and watch everything because they love the game.
And again you state it as a fact without anything to actually back it up. Please show me instances where Day[9] shows inacceptable lack of knowledge about professional scene ? And show me that the incidents are more common than in case of people you mentioned as positive exceptions.
To answer your question I think Day[9] follows professional scene to an acceptable level.
On May 24 2012 09:04 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote: Day9/the panel completely ignoring the distinction between getting into esports for the money (which clearly Day9 didn't) and becoming a corporate shill once the money comes in (which imo Day9 has become).
I think as well that clearly Day9 loved Brood War but probably just likes Sc2 and is more in it for the money, not solely for the money mind you. You can tell as soon as he mentions Brood War that it just means far more to him.
Have you ever watched any of the old dailies? I'm just asking because you make it sound like you know what you are talking about but then you shoot yourself in the foot. First you say he isn't in sc2 for the money and then you say he is. Which is it?
He made dailies about the first sc2 battle reports before the beta even started, how the fuck is that being in it for the money?
Sc2 took off, the bubble expanded, you know what I'm talking about but something else could have happened. He can make a living doing what he loves now but if he didn't, I'm pretty sure he would still make the daily. Nothing came falling off the sky for him, he worked hard. Now if in your opinion you think he doesn't deserve it or that he isn't doing the most he can for the grow of esports now it's another subject ,which can be discussed if you like ,but when you are somehow acting like you know why he does this or that without knowing what the hell are you talking about it's very infuriating.
So either explain your point well, know what you are talking about or just be honest and say you don't like him.
That is your personal subjective opinion plus some "factual" statements that you have no actual evidence for other than "I feel it is so". What's hard to understand? Seems pretty simple to me.
Day9 got into esports because he loved Brood War, he got into Sc2 because he loved Brood War.
In Sc2 his number one priority is taking pay cheques from big business to make Sc2 or any general gaming related content (he's not really bothered what they want from him anymore provided esports dollars are changing hands).
This wasn't an overnight process, this was a gradual transition from the beta where he was a player, to early sc2 where he was a caster and content maker with his finger of the pulse of the scene to the current state of day9 where his dailies are more stale than a year old dairy product and his knowledge of the game and pro scene is really poor.
He adds absolutely nothing to any discussion on any shows he attends (not the he really does them anymore unless he has a product to sell (i.e the latest Red Bull foray into Esports or the After Hours Gaming League, which is terrible by the way, but Day9 doesn't care because he's making money from it) other than to be 100% positive about everything and anything because he wouldn't want to ruin his public image by having an opinion on something.
I honestly can't remember the last time I heard him say something genuinely interesting about anything in Sc2, unlike say Artosis, Tyler, Incontrol, Idra and DjWheat who act like real people with real opinions instead of an infomercial presenter.
No shit it's my opinion, that's why I posted it under my username.
And the second part where you state things as facts without anything with any weigth supporting them ?
As there's absolutely zero figures or statistics in the post you quoted there's really nothing to defend in the first place.
Typical example. Please provide some data for your 80% number ? Or some other high number of your choosing. I think you suffer from very selective memory. Because you have no actual arguments.
You're a funny guy. I love fanboys, and man does Day9 have some fanboys.
Are you seriously claiming Day9 follows the professional scene to an acceptable level?
People expect so little of their casters in this game. What guys like Total Biscuit and Day9 get away with is comparable to football commentators not watching the World Cup or Champions League because they didn't get a casting gig to do it.
Oh please. now you just sound like a fucking hipster who used to like Day9, but now he's sold out to the man and is too mainstream working with big companies. Basically you've just spouted about your opinions as facts and called everyone fanboys if they disagree with you. For some reason you keep bringing up AHGL and Red Bull and the "big money" they bring Day9. AHGL probably costs him more money than he makes, And making money of Red Bull is some how a bad thing? It brought a new sponsor and whole new tourment into the scene and that makes Day9 love starcraft less? I really don't see your point.
On May 24 2012 09:04 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote: Day9/the panel completely ignoring the distinction between getting into esports for the money (which clearly Day9 didn't) and becoming a corporate shill once the money comes in (which imo Day9 has become).
I think as well that clearly Day9 loved Brood War but probably just likes Sc2 and is more in it for the money, not solely for the money mind you. You can tell as soon as he mentions Brood War that it just means far more to him.
Have you ever watched any of the old dailies? I'm just asking because you make it sound like you know what you are talking about but then you shoot yourself in the foot. First you say he isn't in sc2 for the money and then you say he is. Which is it?
He made dailies about the first sc2 battle reports before the beta even started, how the fuck is that being in it for the money?
Sc2 took off, the bubble expanded, you know what I'm talking about but something else could have happened. He can make a living doing what he loves now but if he didn't, I'm pretty sure he would still make the daily. Nothing came falling off the sky for him, he worked hard. Now if in your opinion you think he doesn't deserve it or that he isn't doing the most he can for the grow of esports now it's another subject ,which can be discussed if you like ,but when you are somehow acting like you know why he does this or that without knowing what the hell are you talking about it's very infuriating.
So either explain your point well, know what you are talking about or just be honest and say you don't like him.
That is your personal subjective opinion plus some "factual" statements that you have no actual evidence for other than "I feel it is so". What's hard to understand? Seems pretty simple to me.
Day9 got into esports because he loved Brood War, he got into Sc2 because he loved Brood War.
In Sc2 his number one priority is taking pay cheques from big business to make Sc2 or any general gaming related content (he's not really bothered what they want from him anymore provided esports dollars are changing hands).
This wasn't an overnight process, this was a gradual transition from the beta where he was a player, to early sc2 where he was a caster and content maker with his finger of the pulse of the scene to the current state of day9 where his dailies are more stale than a year old dairy product and his knowledge of the game and pro scene is really poor.
He adds absolutely nothing to any discussion on any shows he attends (not the he really does them anymore unless he has a product to sell (i.e the latest Red Bull foray into Esports or the After Hours Gaming League, which is terrible by the way, but Day9 doesn't care because he's making money from it) other than to be 100% positive about everything and anything because he wouldn't want to ruin his public image by having an opinion on something.
I honestly can't remember the last time I heard him say something genuinely interesting about anything in Sc2, unlike say Artosis, Tyler, Incontrol, Idra and DjWheat who act like real people with real opinions instead of an infomercial presenter.
No shit it's my opinion, that's why I posted it under my username.
And the second part where you state things as facts without anything with any weigth supporting them ?
As there's absolutely zero figures or statistics in the post you quoted there's really nothing to defend in the first place.
Typical example. Please provide some data for your 80% number ? Or some other high number of your choosing. I think you suffer from very selective memory. Because you have no actual arguments.
You're a funny guy. I love fanboys, and man does Day9 have some fanboys.
Are you seriously claiming Day9 follows the professional scene to an acceptable level?
People expect so little of their casters in this game. What guys like Total Biscuit and Day9 get away with is comparable to football commentators not watching the World Cup or Champions League because they didn't get a casting gig to do it.
Oh please. now you just sound like a fucking hipster who used to like Day9, but now he's sold out to the man and is too mainstream working with big companies. Basically you've just spouted about your opinions as facts and called everyone fanboys if they disagree with you. For some reason you keep bringing up AHGL and Red Bull and the "big money" they bring Day9. AHGL probably costs him more money than he makes, And making money of Red Bull is some how a bad thing? It brought a new sponsor and whole new tourment into the scene and that makes Day9 love starcraft less? I really don't see your point.
How do you figure he lost money? The sponsors put up the cash prize (and it was for charity iirc), the venue was hosted by the sponsors and the cast was done via his stream. Absolutely nothing came out of his pocket and instead went into his pocket (viewer numbers). Not hating on Day 9 but that statement was completely stupid...
Aero does have a point though... just watch the first couple episodes of the Daily then watch the most recent. Day9 seems like a completely different person. Excitement over just 200 viewers and thanking them earnestly and apologizing for certain things. Now he plays word twist and makes sarcastic remarks about how many viewers he has for playing that.
Hate him or love him, if you can't see the change then you are clearly the blind fanboy aero paints you to be.
On May 24 2012 09:04 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote: Day9/the panel completely ignoring the distinction between getting into esports for the money (which clearly Day9 didn't) and becoming a corporate shill once the money comes in (which imo Day9 has become).
I think as well that clearly Day9 loved Brood War but probably just likes Sc2 and is more in it for the money, not solely for the money mind you. You can tell as soon as he mentions Brood War that it just means far more to him.
Have you ever watched any of the old dailies? I'm just asking because you make it sound like you know what you are talking about but then you shoot yourself in the foot. First you say he isn't in sc2 for the money and then you say he is. Which is it?
He made dailies about the first sc2 battle reports before the beta even started, how the fuck is that being in it for the money?
Sc2 took off, the bubble expanded, you know what I'm talking about but something else could have happened. He can make a living doing what he loves now but if he didn't, I'm pretty sure he would still make the daily. Nothing came falling off the sky for him, he worked hard. Now if in your opinion you think he doesn't deserve it or that he isn't doing the most he can for the grow of esports now it's another subject ,which can be discussed if you like ,but when you are somehow acting like you know why he does this or that without knowing what the hell are you talking about it's very infuriating.
So either explain your point well, know what you are talking about or just be honest and say you don't like him.
What's hard to understand? Seems pretty simple to me.
Day9 got into esports because he loved Brood War, he got into Sc2 because he loved Brood War.
In Sc2 his number one priority is taking pay cheques from big business to make Sc2 or any general gaming related content (he's not really bothered what they want from him anymore provided esports dollars are changing hands).
This wasn't an overnight process, this was a gradual transition from the beta where he was a player, to early sc2 where he was a caster and content maker with his finger of the pulse of the scene to the current state of day9 where his dailies are more stale than a year old dairy product and his knowledge of the game and pro scene is really poor.
He adds absolutely nothing to any discussion on any shows he attends (not the he really does them anymore unless he has a product to sell (i.e the latest Red Bull foray into Esports or the After Hours Gaming League, which is terrible by the way, but Day9 doesn't care because he's making money from it) other than to be 100% positive about everything and anything because he wouldn't want to ruin his public image by having an opinion on something.
I honestly can't remember the last time I heard him say something genuinely interesting about anything in Sc2, unlike say Artosis, Tyler, Incontrol, Idra and DjWheat who act like real people with real opinions instead of an infomercial presenter.
The reason day[9] doesn't add anything to any discussion is precisely because of people like you. He DOES have a brand to sell, its his living and he has to make sure his name remains good. He is an extremely smart person, and does a very good job of keeping his brand intact. He does that through being very careful with what he says, and what he associates himself with. If he could speak his mind without worrying about getting the amount of hate that someone like Incontrol gets, he might just do it, but the consequences if that hate comes could potentially be huge, and isn't worth it.
Day[9] spends pretty much every moment of his life thinking about sc2, and how to make it bigger and more successful. He puts a ton of stress on himself, and does it mostly because he loves Starcraft. Continue to dislike him if you wish, but do it without making ignorant statements like he only does it for the money, and it will make you sound a lot less a lot foolish.
I don't begrudge him getting paid at all. I begrudge him getting paid such exorbitant amounts for making poor content and I begrudge him getting paid more than top players.
I didn't realize you guys were close enough to know his personal income.
It's common knowledge that Day9 makes a lot of money as mentioned by Huk, Naniwa, Idra, 2GD and others.
Yes, but they don't know how much he spends on his staff.
I think that is part of the problem that is getting him community hate is where he is asking people to donate for esports or he might not have enough money to continue growing esports. But the community has no idea what difference their donations are making or what they are spent on. How much of it is spent on his staff and what does his staff do? If all donations stopped tomorrow how would the growth of esports be affected?
To make a really extreme example Gabe newel and valve and steam are really well liked in the gaming community. But how would people respond if they put a donate to valve thing on their website that said
"The dota 2 revenue, while helpful, only partially defrays the cost of operating valve. If you have the means to offer additional support so that Gabe can continue his efforts to grow gaming, we invite you to make a one time personal donation to his tip jar (or, better still, a recurring donation!!) below:"
I don't think people would respond well because they know that gabe and steam are already rich and successful so asking for donations to a profitable company for a vague goal that nobody will know what they actually do with sounds like gabe is trying to trick people to get even richer.
Of course day9 is nowhere near that successful but what is the maximum size of a business that you think could reasonably post that paragraph? I think it is really only very small struggling start up businesses that can get away with donations like that and day9 might be passing that point or at least that's the impression people get with all the talk about how much he makes by others in the industry.
On May 24 2012 09:04 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote: Day9/the panel completely ignoring the distinction between getting into esports for the money (which clearly Day9 didn't) and becoming a corporate shill once the money comes in (which imo Day9 has become).
I think as well that clearly Day9 loved Brood War but probably just likes Sc2 and is more in it for the money, not solely for the money mind you. You can tell as soon as he mentions Brood War that it just means far more to him.
Have you ever watched any of the old dailies? I'm just asking because you make it sound like you know what you are talking about but then you shoot yourself in the foot. First you say he isn't in sc2 for the money and then you say he is. Which is it?
He made dailies about the first sc2 battle reports before the beta even started, how the fuck is that being in it for the money?
Sc2 took off, the bubble expanded, you know what I'm talking about but something else could have happened. He can make a living doing what he loves now but if he didn't, I'm pretty sure he would still make the daily. Nothing came falling off the sky for him, he worked hard. Now if in your opinion you think he doesn't deserve it or that he isn't doing the most he can for the grow of esports now it's another subject ,which can be discussed if you like ,but when you are somehow acting like you know why he does this or that without knowing what the hell are you talking about it's very infuriating.
So either explain your point well, know what you are talking about or just be honest and say you don't like him.
That is your personal subjective opinion plus some "factual" statements that you have no actual evidence for other than "I feel it is so". What's hard to understand? Seems pretty simple to me.
Day9 got into esports because he loved Brood War, he got into Sc2 because he loved Brood War.
In Sc2 his number one priority is taking pay cheques from big business to make Sc2 or any general gaming related content (he's not really bothered what they want from him anymore provided esports dollars are changing hands).
This wasn't an overnight process, this was a gradual transition from the beta where he was a player, to early sc2 where he was a caster and content maker with his finger of the pulse of the scene to the current state of day9 where his dailies are more stale than a year old dairy product and his knowledge of the game and pro scene is really poor.
He adds absolutely nothing to any discussion on any shows he attends (not the he really does them anymore unless he has a product to sell (i.e the latest Red Bull foray into Esports or the After Hours Gaming League, which is terrible by the way, but Day9 doesn't care because he's making money from it) other than to be 100% positive about everything and anything because he wouldn't want to ruin his public image by having an opinion on something.
I honestly can't remember the last time I heard him say something genuinely interesting about anything in Sc2, unlike say Artosis, Tyler, Incontrol, Idra and DjWheat who act like real people with real opinions instead of an infomercial presenter.
No shit it's my opinion, that's why I posted it under my username.
And the second part where you state things as facts without anything with any weigth supporting them ?
As there's absolutely zero figures or statistics in the post you quoted there's really nothing to defend in the first place.
Typical example. Please provide some data for your 80% number ? Or some other high number of your choosing. I think you suffer from very selective memory. Because you have no actual arguments.
You're a funny guy. I love fanboys, and man does Day9 have some fanboys.
Are you seriously claiming Day9 follows the professional scene to an acceptable level?
People expect so little of their casters in this game. What guys like Total Biscuit and Day9 get away with is comparable to football commentators not watching the World Cup or Champions League because they didn't get a casting gig to do it.
Oh please. now you just sound like a fucking hipster who used to like Day9, but now he's sold out to the man and is too mainstream working with big companies. Basically you've just spouted about your opinions as facts and called everyone fanboys if they disagree with you. For some reason you keep bringing up AHGL and Red Bull and the "big money" they bring Day9. AHGL probably costs him more money than he makes, And making money of Red Bull is some how a bad thing? It brought a new sponsor and whole new tourment into the scene and that makes Day9 love starcraft less? I really don't see your point.
How do you figure he lost money? The sponsors put up the cash prize (and it was for charity iirc), the venue was hosted by the sponsors and the cast was done via his stream. Absolutely nothing came out of his pocket and instead went into his pocket (viewer numbers). Not hating on Day 9 but that statement was completely stupid...
Aero does have a point though... just watch the first couple episodes of the Daily then watch the most recent. Day9 seems like a completely different person. Excitement over just 200 viewers and thanking them earnestly and apologizing for certain things. Now he plays word twist and makes sarcastic remarks about how many viewers he has for playing that.
Hate him or love him, if you can't see the change then you are clearly the blind fanboy aero paints you to be.
He said on Lo3 that he payed the tournament admins.
On May 24 2012 09:04 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote: Day9/the panel completely ignoring the distinction between getting into esports for the money (which clearly Day9 didn't) and becoming a corporate shill once the money comes in (which imo Day9 has become).
I think as well that clearly Day9 loved Brood War but probably just likes Sc2 and is more in it for the money, not solely for the money mind you. You can tell as soon as he mentions Brood War that it just means far more to him.
Have you ever watched any of the old dailies? I'm just asking because you make it sound like you know what you are talking about but then you shoot yourself in the foot. First you say he isn't in sc2 for the money and then you say he is. Which is it?
He made dailies about the first sc2 battle reports before the beta even started, how the fuck is that being in it for the money?
Sc2 took off, the bubble expanded, you know what I'm talking about but something else could have happened. He can make a living doing what he loves now but if he didn't, I'm pretty sure he would still make the daily. Nothing came falling off the sky for him, he worked hard. Now if in your opinion you think he doesn't deserve it or that he isn't doing the most he can for the grow of esports now it's another subject ,which can be discussed if you like ,but when you are somehow acting like you know why he does this or that without knowing what the hell are you talking about it's very infuriating.
So either explain your point well, know what you are talking about or just be honest and say you don't like him.
That is your personal subjective opinion plus some "factual" statements that you have no actual evidence for other than "I feel it is so". What's hard to understand? Seems pretty simple to me.
Day9 got into esports because he loved Brood War, he got into Sc2 because he loved Brood War.
In Sc2 his number one priority is taking pay cheques from big business to make Sc2 or any general gaming related content (he's not really bothered what they want from him anymore provided esports dollars are changing hands).
This wasn't an overnight process, this was a gradual transition from the beta where he was a player, to early sc2 where he was a caster and content maker with his finger of the pulse of the scene to the current state of day9 where his dailies are more stale than a year old dairy product and his knowledge of the game and pro scene is really poor.
He adds absolutely nothing to any discussion on any shows he attends (not the he really does them anymore unless he has a product to sell (i.e the latest Red Bull foray into Esports or the After Hours Gaming League, which is terrible by the way, but Day9 doesn't care because he's making money from it) other than to be 100% positive about everything and anything because he wouldn't want to ruin his public image by having an opinion on something.
I honestly can't remember the last time I heard him say something genuinely interesting about anything in Sc2, unlike say Artosis, Tyler, Incontrol, Idra and DjWheat who act like real people with real opinions instead of an infomercial presenter.
No shit it's my opinion, that's why I posted it under my username.
And the second part where you state things as facts without anything with any weigth supporting them ?
As there's absolutely zero figures or statistics in the post you quoted there's really nothing to defend in the first place.
Typical example. Please provide some data for your 80% number ? Or some other high number of your choosing. I think you suffer from very selective memory. Because you have no actual arguments.
You're a funny guy. I love fanboys, and man does Day9 have some fanboys.
Are you seriously claiming Day9 follows the professional scene to an acceptable level?
People expect so little of their casters in this game. What guys like Total Biscuit and Day9 get away with is comparable to football commentators not watching the World Cup or Champions League because they didn't get a casting gig to do it.
Oh please. now you just sound like a fucking hipster who used to like Day9, but now he's sold out to the man and is too mainstream working with big companies. Basically you've just spouted about your opinions as facts and called everyone fanboys if they disagree with you. For some reason you keep bringing up AHGL and Red Bull and the "big money" they bring Day9. AHGL probably costs him more money than he makes, And making money of Red Bull is some how a bad thing? It brought a new sponsor and whole new tourment into the scene and that makes Day9 love starcraft less? I really don't see your point.
How do you figure he lost money? The sponsors put up the cash prize (and it was for charity iirc), the venue was hosted by the sponsors and the cast was done via his stream. Absolutely nothing came out of his pocket and instead went into his pocket (viewer numbers). Not hating on Day 9 but that statement was completely stupid...
Aero does have a point though... just watch the first couple episodes of the Daily then watch the most recent. Day9 seems like a completely different person. Excitement over just 200 viewers and thanking them earnestly and apologizing for certain things. Now he plays word twist and makes sarcastic remarks about how many viewers he has for playing that.
Hate him or love him, if you can't see the change then you are clearly the blind fanboy aero paints you to be.
From all I can find the sponsor of AHGL cash prize is Day9.tv, so you are incorrect.
As for the Daily. Of course there is a change, noone I think denies that. But it is mostly matter of taste if the change is for worse. For me the change is more neutral, not for the better, not much for worse.
On May 24 2012 09:04 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote: Day9/the panel completely ignoring the distinction between getting into esports for the money (which clearly Day9 didn't) and becoming a corporate shill once the money comes in (which imo Day9 has become).
I think as well that clearly Day9 loved Brood War but probably just likes Sc2 and is more in it for the money, not solely for the money mind you. You can tell as soon as he mentions Brood War that it just means far more to him.
Have you ever watched any of the old dailies? I'm just asking because you make it sound like you know what you are talking about but then you shoot yourself in the foot. First you say he isn't in sc2 for the money and then you say he is. Which is it?
He made dailies about the first sc2 battle reports before the beta even started, how the fuck is that being in it for the money?
Sc2 took off, the bubble expanded, you know what I'm talking about but something else could have happened. He can make a living doing what he loves now but if he didn't, I'm pretty sure he would still make the daily. Nothing came falling off the sky for him, he worked hard. Now if in your opinion you think he doesn't deserve it or that he isn't doing the most he can for the grow of esports now it's another subject ,which can be discussed if you like ,but when you are somehow acting like you know why he does this or that without knowing what the hell are you talking about it's very infuriating.
So either explain your point well, know what you are talking about or just be honest and say you don't like him.
What's hard to understand? Seems pretty simple to me.
Day9 got into esports because he loved Brood War, he got into Sc2 because he loved Brood War.
In Sc2 his number one priority is taking pay cheques from big business to make Sc2 or any general gaming related content (he's not really bothered what they want from him anymore provided esports dollars are changing hands).
This wasn't an overnight process, this was a gradual transition from the beta where he was a player, to early sc2 where he was a caster and content maker with his finger of the pulse of the scene to the current state of day9 where his dailies are more stale than a year old dairy product and his knowledge of the game and pro scene is really poor.
He adds absolutely nothing to any discussion on any shows he attends (not the he really does them anymore unless he has a product to sell (i.e the latest Red Bull foray into Esports or the After Hours Gaming League, which is terrible by the way, but Day9 doesn't care because he's making money from it) other than to be 100% positive about everything and anything because he wouldn't want to ruin his public image by having an opinion on something.
I honestly can't remember the last time I heard him say something genuinely interesting about anything in Sc2, unlike say Artosis, Tyler, Incontrol, Idra and DjWheat who act like real people with real opinions instead of an infomercial presenter.
The reason day[9] doesn't add anything to any discussion is precisely because of people like you. He DOES have a brand to sell, its his living and he has to make sure his name remains good. He is an extremely smart person, and does a very good job of keeping his brand intact. He does that through being very careful with what he says, and what he associates himself with. If he could speak his mind without worrying about getting the amount of hate that someone like Incontrol gets, he might just do it, but the consequences if that hate comes could potentially be huge, and isn't worth it.
Day[9] spends pretty much every moment of his life thinking about sc2, and how to make it bigger and more successful. He puts a ton of stress on himself, and does it mostly because he loves Starcraft. Continue to dislike him if you wish, but do it without making ignorant statements like he only does it for the money, and it will make you sound a lot less a lot foolish.
I don't begrudge him getting paid at all. I begrudge him getting paid such exorbitant amounts for making poor content and I begrudge him getting paid more than top players.
I didn't realize you guys were close enough to know his personal income.
It's common knowledge that Day9 makes a lot of money as mentioned by Huk, Naniwa, Idra, 2GD and others.
Yes, but they don't know how much he spends on his staff.
I think that is part of the problem that is getting him community hate is where he is asking people to donate for esports or he might not have enough money to continue growing esports. But the community has no idea what difference their donations are making or what they are spent on. How much of it is spent of his staff and what does his staff do? If all donations stopped tomorrow how would the growth of esports be affected?
To make a really extreme example Gabe newel and valve and steam are really well liked in the gaming community. But how would people respond if they put a donate to valve thing on their website that said
"The dota 2 revenue, while helpful, only partially defrays the cost of operating valve. If you have the means to offer additional support so that Gabe can continue his efforts to grow gaming, we invite you to make a one time personal donation to his tip jar (or, better still, a recurring donation!!) below:"
I don't think people would respond well because they know that gabe and steam are already rich and successful so asking for donations to a profitable company for a vague goal that nobody will know what they actually do with sounds like gabe is trying to trick people to get even richer.
Of course day9 is nowhere near that successful but what think about what is the maximum size of a business that you think could reasonably post that paragraph. I think it is really only very small struggling start up businesses that can get away with donations like that and day9 might be passing that point or at least that's the impression people get with all the talk about how much he makes by others in the industry.
I think it is not hard to see what the donations are for - Daily, AHGL I assume. Harder part is to see as you say how it would look like without them. But you will never know unless Day[9] tells us(unlikely) or you stop donating and see how it turns out.
On May 24 2012 11:36 magnaflow wrote: God, this community is going to be the death of itself, I say another year at the most and SC2 will be the same way it was in BW
Fucking disgusting how terrible this community is
no, we are just going to see less and less fan interaction and such. there is a reason professional athletes don't post on message boards and such.
On May 24 2012 11:36 magnaflow wrote: God, this community is going to be the death of itself, I say another year at the most and SC2 will be the same way it was in BW
Fucking disgusting how terrible this community is
no, we are just going to see less and less fan interaction and such. there is a reason professional athletes don't post on message boards and such.
You realize this entire discussion is about how we want more fan interaction so we don't have people making false assumptions about income.
On May 24 2012 09:04 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote: Day9/the panel completely ignoring the distinction between getting into esports for the money (which clearly Day9 didn't) and becoming a corporate shill once the money comes in (which imo Day9 has become).
I think as well that clearly Day9 loved Brood War but probably just likes Sc2 and is more in it for the money, not solely for the money mind you. You can tell as soon as he mentions Brood War that it just means far more to him.
Have you ever watched any of the old dailies? I'm just asking because you make it sound like you know what you are talking about but then you shoot yourself in the foot. First you say he isn't in sc2 for the money and then you say he is. Which is it?
He made dailies about the first sc2 battle reports before the beta even started, how the fuck is that being in it for the money?
Sc2 took off, the bubble expanded, you know what I'm talking about but something else could have happened. He can make a living doing what he loves now but if he didn't, I'm pretty sure he would still make the daily. Nothing came falling off the sky for him, he worked hard. Now if in your opinion you think he doesn't deserve it or that he isn't doing the most he can for the grow of esports now it's another subject ,which can be discussed if you like ,but when you are somehow acting like you know why he does this or that without knowing what the hell are you talking about it's very infuriating.
So either explain your point well, know what you are talking about or just be honest and say you don't like him.
What's hard to understand? Seems pretty simple to me.
Day9 got into esports because he loved Brood War, he got into Sc2 because he loved Brood War.
In Sc2 his number one priority is taking pay cheques from big business to make Sc2 or any general gaming related content (he's not really bothered what they want from him anymore provided esports dollars are changing hands).
This wasn't an overnight process, this was a gradual transition from the beta where he was a player, to early sc2 where he was a caster and content maker with his finger of the pulse of the scene to the current state of day9 where his dailies are more stale than a year old dairy product and his knowledge of the game and pro scene is really poor.
He adds absolutely nothing to any discussion on any shows he attends (not the he really does them anymore unless he has a product to sell (i.e the latest Red Bull foray into Esports or the After Hours Gaming League, which is terrible by the way, but Day9 doesn't care because he's making money from it) other than to be 100% positive about everything and anything because he wouldn't want to ruin his public image by having an opinion on something.
I honestly can't remember the last time I heard him say something genuinely interesting about anything in Sc2, unlike say Artosis, Tyler, Incontrol, Idra and DjWheat who act like real people with real opinions instead of an infomercial presenter.
The reason day[9] doesn't add anything to any discussion is precisely because of people like you. He DOES have a brand to sell, its his living and he has to make sure his name remains good. He is an extremely smart person, and does a very good job of keeping his brand intact. He does that through being very careful with what he says, and what he associates himself with. If he could speak his mind without worrying about getting the amount of hate that someone like Incontrol gets, he might just do it, but the consequences if that hate comes could potentially be huge, and isn't worth it.
Day[9] spends pretty much every moment of his life thinking about sc2, and how to make it bigger and more successful. He puts a ton of stress on himself, and does it mostly because he loves Starcraft. Continue to dislike him if you wish, but do it without making ignorant statements like he only does it for the money, and it will make you sound a lot less a lot foolish.
I don't begrudge him getting paid at all. I begrudge him getting paid such exorbitant amounts for making poor content and I begrudge him getting paid more than top players.
I didn't realize you guys were close enough to know his personal income.
It's common knowledge that Day9 makes a lot of money as mentioned by Huk, Naniwa, Idra, 2GD and others.
Yes, but they don't know how much he spends on his staff.
I think that is part of the problem that is getting him community hate is where he is asking people to donate for esports or he might not have enough money to continue growing esports. But the community has no idea what difference their donations are making or what they are spent on. How much of it is spent of his staff and what does his staff do? If all donations stopped tomorrow how would the growth of esports be affected?
To make a really extreme example Gabe newel and valve and steam are really well liked in the gaming community. But how would people respond if they put a donate to valve thing on their website that said
"The dota 2 revenue, while helpful, only partially defrays the cost of operating valve. If you have the means to offer additional support so that Gabe can continue his efforts to grow gaming, we invite you to make a one time personal donation to his tip jar (or, better still, a recurring donation!!) below:"
I don't think people would respond well because they know that gabe and steam are already rich and successful so asking for donations to a profitable company for a vague goal that nobody will know what they actually do with sounds like gabe is trying to trick people to get even richer.
Of course day9 is nowhere near that successful but what think about what is the maximum size of a business that you think could reasonably post that paragraph. I think it is really only very small struggling start up businesses that can get away with donations like that and day9 might be passing that point or at least that's the impression people get with all the talk about how much he makes by others in the industry.
I think it is not hard to see what the donations are for - Daily, AHGL I assume. Harder part is to see as you say how it would look like without them. But you will never know unless Day[9] tells us(unlikely) or you stop donating and see how it turns out.
Ya you are right. The only chance is to see him go on the executives podcast and talk about his business and maybe introduce his all his staff and what exactly their jobs are I think it could be very interesting and helpful to others wanting to get in the industry. Totalbuscuit did it.
But the more I think about that donation paragraph on his site the more it bothers me because it heavily implies his business is unprofitable (it says subscriptions are less than the cost of day9tv) and that the only way he can continue is with donations. You have to think about it to realize subscriptions are not his only revenue source for day9tv so the sentence can be true while what it seems like it is meant to imply is not. (day9tv is probably a profitable business from all we've heard)
On May 24 2012 11:36 magnaflow wrote: God, this community is going to be the death of itself, I say another year at the most and SC2 will be the same way it was in BW
Fucking disgusting how terrible this community is
no, we are just going to see less and less fan interaction and such. there is a reason professional athletes don't post on message boards and such.
You realize this entire discussion is about how we want more fan interaction so we don't have people making false assumptions about income.
You realize this entire discussion is why that less and less interaction is happening and going to continue to happen?
On May 24 2012 11:36 magnaflow wrote: God, this community is going to be the death of itself, I say another year at the most and SC2 will be the same way it was in BW
Fucking disgusting how terrible this community is
96,557 subbed to the starcraft reddit,16146 stream viewers on TL, judges the whole community based on a few posts.
On May 24 2012 11:36 magnaflow wrote: God, this community is going to be the death of itself, I say another year at the most and SC2 will be the same way it was in BW
Fucking disgusting how terrible this community is
96,557 subbed to the starcraft reddit,16146 stream viewers on TL, judges the whole community based on a few posts.
Terribly community indeed >_>
A few posts? Do you not visit this site or reddit often? Everyone harps on how bad the Battle Net forums are, these aren't much better, if at all
On May 24 2012 11:36 magnaflow wrote: God, this community is going to be the death of itself, I say another year at the most and SC2 will be the same way it was in BW
Fucking disgusting how terrible this community is
96,557 subbed to the starcraft reddit,16146 stream viewers on TL, judges the whole community based on a few posts.
Terribly community indeed >_>
A few posts? Do you not visit this site or reddit often? Everyone harps on how bad the Battle Net forums are, these aren't much better, if at all
You do realize most of the time its a vocal minority. Most of the fans can't really be arsed to be active on the forums >_>
EPT
