EPTDestiny released from Complexity - Page 49
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It is highly recommended that your read this entire thread - at least until page 10. If you make uninformed opinions that have been answered by the thread, col management or Destiny, you will be banned. | ||
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CpT
United States9 Posts
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rewsky
United States27 Posts
On June 24 2011 07:30 CptCombat wrote: I actually love how this turned into such a big deal. I mean honestly, the man joined coL and never seemed too excited about it. As a result, things fell through for both parties. Steven has explained his actions and coL explained their actions, does all this random BM have to be applied? To all the idiots flaming Steven for prejudice (highlighting racial) remarks; can you please shut up and possibly watch the guys stream before passing hearsay judgement. I'll say it, I am African-American, and I fucking love Steven's stream. If anything on the stream is prejudiced it's mild and/or in context with a topic, statement, or analogy. Yes, some of the material is a bit mature, but he publicizes this on his stream (you know that button you click to enter the material marked as Mature 18+ Content...yea...that one). The man is a well practiced Starcraft player and a pretty witty person, albeit a bit vulgar, but in no way is he ignorant or prejudice. So, can the back and forth nerd bashing stop, its unnecessary. Good luck to Steven and good luck to coL; it's a shame things didn't work out. Flippant use of the N word is indicative of a certain level of ignorance, and at the bare minimum shows a lack of sympathy and consideration for other human beings. I can drop rape jokes around a friend that's been sexually assaulted like rain falling from the sky, but it's still a shitty thing to do. Just because you're African American doesn't really give any credence to your argument - that's just an appeal to authority. I've known plenty of women that laugh at and love misogynistic comments, or plenty of self-hating homosexuals that don't think they have a right to marriage. | ||
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nick00bot
326 Posts
Flippant use of the N word is indicative of a certain level of ignorance, and at the bare minimum shows a lack of sympathy and consideration for other human beings. im sure everyone here realizes that the word hasn't been used as racist slang by anyone except a very small minority of, well, racist for quite a while now. to be honest i feel thats its immature to take any word at face value like that for the sake of being politicially correct when really its just a filler word for other profanities, and an empty one at that (especially in the realm of starcraft). tl;dr : im sure you think yourself an enlightened thinker for your aversion to the N word, but really it doesnt carry much meaning and its pointless to make a fuss about it on a damn starcraft stream | ||
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TrivialRiot
United States27 Posts
On June 24 2011 00:18 coljbass wrote: So end of the day, I am not sure how we could have handled this better. We wish Destiny nothing but the best. All you had to do was not include the following statements in your release: " Despite Mr. Bonnell’s agreement to exercise solid judgment and professionalism in his trade, some of the polarizing opinions being expressed on his stream were in direct opposition the values compLexity has stood for since 2003. This behavior made our decision clear and Mr. Bonnell has been released from any and all contractual obligations." This petty articulation of your differences in opinion on what is and is not professional or appropriate on his personal stream makes you look immature as an organization. What you should have written was the truth: Since Mr Bonnell did not wish to meet his obligations as a sponsored professional gamer, you agreed to release him from his contract. This makes you appear as the forgiving, mature figure in the situation, which is great PR, and oh by the way, it's actually what happened according to you AND Destiny. I have no idea who felt it was necessary to comment on the values in his stream, and in this situation it was the only thing that made coL look stupid. As a counterexample, the most impressive thing to me about the ROOT acquisition was that you wished the good luck when they turned down your initial offer, and left the opportunity opened, as opposed to pressuring them with threats & ridicule (which per the release was a common strategy). I just wanted to add that this back and forth is the funniest thing in a 50 page thread full of drama: On June 23 2011 16:50 Eurekastreet wrote: Me and my marginalized gay friends (which I of course hate but was too dumb to understand it before you came) send you a big thank you! so props eurekastreet for laying the satirical smackdown on some ignorance. | ||
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rewsky
United States27 Posts
On June 24 2011 08:05 nick00bot wrote: im sure everyone here realizes that the word hasn't been used as racist slang by anyone except a very small minority of, well, racist for quite a while now. to be honest i feel thats its immature to take any word at face value like that for the sake of being politicially correct when really its just a filler word for other profanities, and an empty one at that (especially in the realm of starcraft). tl;dr : im sure you think yourself an enlightened thinker for your aversion to the N word, but really it doesnt carry much meaning and its pointless to make a fuss about it on a damn starcraft stream The word is still used regularly as a racial slur. I have family that I visit out in Georgia, Tennessee, and have friends in Virginia, Missouri, and Louisiana. It's pretty prevalent and I still hear it used in the North East usually amongst white only groups of people when they decide to complain about black people. It isn't just an empty filler word - less than 60 years ago - read that as: less than a lifetime ago, people were getting hosed down and called the N word.There are plenty of people who still remember when a black friend got beaten for dating a white (my parents, my aunts and uncles to name a few anecdotally) so I find it disingenuous, and ignorant to suggest that it's only a minority using the word in a racially charged way. The point is that the word stands apart from words like Fuck, Shit, and Ass in that they carry a whole history of painful memories and shame that should be given, in my opinion, a certain amount of respect. Don't get me wrong - you're free to do what you want to do - but I don't think, I know that many people wouldn't take you seriously from a professional perspective if you use it flippantly. It carries plenty of meaning. I don't think of myself as an enlightened thinker for pointing out something so obvious, but thank you for being condescending. | ||
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Demonace34
United States2493 Posts
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xMonkey
United States1 Post
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rewsky
United States27 Posts
On June 24 2011 08:23 xMonkey wrote: i watched his stream by accident and i thought he was funny.. but i find people are getting off topic and just bashing his personality, if you don't like his stream why not just watch someone else. if he screwed himself with a team then thats his choice, but who cares, just because he dropped out of college doesn't mean he's a bad person... Yeah don't get me wrong - I don't think he's a terrible person and I like how animated he is, but I'm not really going to be in denial over how entitled he feels to being himself over a mass medium. I couldn't care less - his behavior is reflective of himself and the community, but I'm not him and I don't play the game professionally so it doesn't really hurt me. | ||
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Serpico
4285 Posts
On June 24 2011 08:25 rewsky wrote: Yeah don't get me wrong - I don't think he's a terrible person and I like how animated he is, but I'm not really going to be in denial over how entitled he feels to being himself over a mass medium. I couldn't care less - his behavior is reflective of himself and the community, but I'm not him and I don't play the game professionally so it doesn't really hurt me. uhhh what? I understand it being a reflection of himself, but the community? Maybe you mean his fans because they encourage his behavior perhaps? | ||
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Synapze
Canada563 Posts
I'm pretty happy about this, perhaps we will get to see a lot less of him professionally (if he was ever a pro?) Not all pros have to be the #1 player.. but people like Incontrol (lol sorry for putting you in this category geoff), Artosis, etc at least all contribute to the community and have such awesome positive attitudes.. Destiny isn't really great at the game and isn't great for the community.. which is a bad combo. Tldr = Destiny is neither good at the game or helpful in the community. | ||
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Argolis
Canada211 Posts
On June 24 2011 09:06 Synapze wrote: The few times I met Destiny (in game) he came off as a whiny, teenage 4chan lurker. I'm pretty happy about this, perhaps we will get to see a lot less of him professionally (if he was ever a pro?) Not all pros have to be the #1 player.. but people like Incontrol (lol sorry for putting you in this category geoff), Artosis, etc at least all contribute to the community and have such awesome positive attitudes.. Destiny isn't really great at the game and isn't great for the community.. which is a bad combo. Tldr = Destiny is neither good at the game or helpful in the community. What have you done for the community? And the few times we met on ladder, you came off as a pedophile and possible rapist. This thread is amazing. Teamliquid 2.0 is better than any soap opera. | ||
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WooChop
United States120 Posts
On June 24 2011 09:06 Synapze wrote: The few times I met Destiny (in game) he came off as a whiny, teenage 4chan lurker. I'm pretty happy about this, perhaps we will get to see a lot less of him professionally (if he was ever a pro?) Not all pros have to be the #1 player.. but people like Incontrol (lol sorry for putting you in this category geoff), Artosis, etc at least all contribute to the community and have such awesome positive attitudes.. Destiny isn't really great at the game and isn't great for the community.. which is a bad combo. Tldr = Destiny is neither good at the game or helpful in the community. You may hate him, but you can't use that to determine how he plays the game. He is in GM and does fairly well against some of the higher ranked players, so I can't justify saying that he's bad at the game. What can you do though? Haters gonna hate. Both parties in this conflict have stated their sides of the story, and there seems to be no bad blood or animosity. I do not understand why people are still posting some of the things that they are (well, I do understand, they aren't reading the thread). Destiny made a stupid decision in signing the contract in the first place, and he admitted to it. Everyone does stupid shit at least every now and then in their lives, so why burn Destiny at the stake? | ||
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CpT
United States9 Posts
On June 24 2011 07:45 rewsky wrote: Flippant use of the N word is indicative of a certain level of ignorance, and at the bare minimum shows a lack of sympathy and consideration for other human beings. I can drop rape jokes around a friend that's been sexually assaulted like rain falling from the sky, but it's still a shitty thing to do. Just because you're African American doesn't really give any credence to your argument - that's just an appeal to authority. I've known plenty of women that laugh at and love misogynistic comments, or plenty of self-hating homosexuals that don't think they have a right to marriage. I don't think you quite understand the context in which the N-word is gravely inappropriate. You see, the word, simply as a word, carries no weight at all, many African-Americans will tell you this if you ask. Things become, well, dicey when the word is used in a derogatory manner directed at an African-American. As well, your analogy is terrible due to dissemblance in time frame. Let me explain. The N-word, while used today in derogatory manner (to a lesser degree) was widely used throughout the days of the slave trade as a means of dehumanizing and degrading the African people being sold like cattle. The word was widely used until the later 60s alongside other derogatory terms such as the word colored. As you can see, the word has been around for hundreds of years. Now lets say your friend was raped Friday, and on Saturday you drop a rape joke in front of him/her. Is that unbelievably inappropriate and ignorant...yes, yes it is; however, say your friend was raped in 1960 and you dropped a rape joke today, is the joke still unbearably inappropriate and ignorant? To be blunt, no, and the person who pulls their punches due to the presence of said party seems far more disrespectful than the person who doesn't. The N-word has been around since what, the 1600s? Thanks for the sympathy broski, but I'm pretty sure it's unwarranted and unwanted. Also, lets point out the issue of audience. When you make a joke about rape to a person who has been sexually assaulted it seems like you're attacking the person, because you're audience is just the person who has been sexually assaulted (also you're wording implies knowledge of the fact that this person has been sexually assaulted). Steve is livestreaming, his audience numbers in the thousands and 99% of them are random strangers. I'm sorry, but if you are going to try to say he should hold his tongue on the off chance that some of them are of African descent, then you're either an idiot or you're crazy. Steve just acts naturally on stream, which is a quality appreciated by all audiences. I mean when you're at home do you act completely politically correct? If you do, then thank god you don't have an audience, you'd be boring as hell. Everyone is a little bit prejudice towards something, that's just how the world is, it's the degree of the prejudice that warrants attention. If Steve was on his stream calling every black person he saw or spoke to the N-word, or even if he was trying to degrade/dehumanize people of African descent, then maybe I'd agree with you, but as it stands, your post has absolutely no value. Thanks a bunch. | ||
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noezke
England514 Posts
I can defiantly see why he's not everyone's cup of tea but in the end if you don't like him then don't watch. There was really no need to take this thread to the lengths its gone too, its pretty ridiculous and something you would probably hope to see on the battle.net forums and not TL :S He and the team parted ways, no harm no foul. End of story. Good luck to Destiny hope he finds a decent team, or just decides to go it alone. From what I've seen he defiantly has some potential and is in my opinion one of the more entertaining zerg's to watch play. I don't really see this thread going anywhere productive in the ways of discussion and should probably be closed. | ||
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bahl sofs tiil
United States233 Posts
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EggYsc2
620 Posts
1) I love all the people pointing fingers at his "bad" parts Do not point a finger if you youreself have never a)hated b)said something racist(funny or not funny its about context amiright) c)swore alot d)been bad mannered e)done anyting you hate on destiny for HOW DARE you judge someone when I know no one is perfect in the world 2)To say destiny does nothing for the community is rediculous. -People like destiny make watching streams fun, he is interactive with his stream (unlike most pros who turn on music and are like watch me and make me money) -Hes not afraid to speak his mind and defend what he says with a calm matter and logical if I may add 3) He is much better than Incontrol and other players why? His skill level grows exponentially faster than any others, while all the "pros"(mostly from BW) are riding off their BW skills while Destiny is getting so much better everyday. Maybe right now he is even/slightly below Incontrol and others but look at destiny 3 months ago he couldnt compete with them head on, now he can just imagine his skill level in another 3 months. So in the longrun destiny will be the better player In the end im amazed this got to 49 pages and anyone that hates shame on you. | ||
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Jinsho
United Kingdom3101 Posts
To his 1) : It is everyone's inherent duty to strive for self-improvement and to foster a sense of self-improvement in the community. To say one cannot criticise another person is blatantly stupid to the point where it's not even a valid argument at school, much less at more complicated environments in life. To his 3): Exponential skill growth is often observed in the unskilled and those who just grew to learn the game. That's not really a good way of judging a new player's skill, in fact, there may not be a good way of judging a new player just yet. Stay rational when discussing complicated things, please. | ||
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Marcus420
Canada1923 Posts
On June 24 2011 09:35 noezke wrote: Not exactly an avid watcher of Destiny's stream but the times I did tune in I never really heard anything to justify the immense amount of hatred he seems to be receiving. I can defiantly see why he's not everyone's cup of tea but in the end if you don't like him then don't watch. There was really no need to take this thread to the lengths its gone too, its pretty ridiculous and something you would probably hope to see on the battle.net forums and not TL :S He and the team parted ways, no harm no foul. End of story. Good luck to Destiny hope he finds a decent team, or just decides to go it alone. From what I've seen he defiantly has some potential and is in my opinion one of the more entertaining zerg's to watch play. I don't really see this thread going anywhere productive in the ways of discussion and should probably be closed. The bolded part. Destiny used to bm almost everyone for laughs. Ive been watching him since he has had only a few hundred viewers at the time. Destiny is not nearly as bad as he used to be. if you can even say he was "bad". He has always been hilarious, and still is. He has definitely toned it down ALOT since getting featured. and i WANT him to speak his mind when he can, hes always interesting to listen to and has a well thought out, educated opinion on things. again, coL doesnt need destiny, and destiny doesn't need coL. | ||
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UniversalMind
United States326 Posts
I'm black and watch stevens stream everyday and prob hear the N word more from my on peers then steven, personally the internet IMO is immature in ways some people can not possibly comprehend. No community person or culture RL, net, w/e is perfect he does his on thing on his stream no one makes you watch. He has stated hes not a starcraft community superhero, leave the dude alone lol | ||
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Mallard86
186 Posts
which is utter bullshit. You may say people have died for free speech issues; this is not a friggin' free speech issue. Just as there is no free speech on teamliquid. The government wasn't involved in this case, it was a corporation or whatever the hell complexity is wishing to part ways with Destiny. I dont know the terms of the contract. What I do know is that CoL was insisting that Destiny modify his speech (restricting) in a location outside of the boundaries of the CoL organization. Any private entity has the right to restrict speech within their boundaries. They do not have the right to restrict speech outside of their boundaries. Im guessing there was some code of conduct clause within the contract which Destiny did sign which did give them the right to demand Destiny modify his speech while representing team CoL or be in breach of contract. Im guessing the terms covered his stream as a venue from which he would be representing the team so legally I guess they had the right to restrict his speech in that area. What I do know of Destiny is that any restriction in his rights would not sit well with him. Being able to say the F word is very important. Its incredibly important. | ||
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