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It is highly recommended that your read this entire thread - at least until page 10. If you make uninformed opinions that have been answered by the thread, col management or Destiny, you will be banned. |
United States527 Posts
On June 24 2011 02:11 Eleaven wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2011 01:44 MrNastyTime wrote:
I do think it's stupid how they wanted destiny even though they knew about his vulgar language. If any team does pick him up it will be a team who wants more publicity and wants to get more fans and their name more out there.
So GL HF to who ever picks him up. It was set up to fail, in such a way that CoL would get to remain the "good guys" in the story. Of course they knew steven bonnell, the man who literally lives off of his personality, was not going to change. Imagine if he did suddenly change, and he puts his stream at risk of losing popularity. People watch him because he's entertaining, if he doesn't have that, he doesn't have the same level of income any more. It was never going to happen, but this way they can blame steven in a bitchy post on their website ^^
This isn't really what happened for the most part. Steven didn't want to be apart of the organization to start and complexity did a really nice thing by letting him out of his contract. So uninformed..
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Doubtful that a team would correspond to his "using language"...
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I dont see much drama here other than people attempting to create it, Steven knew he did not fit into their organisation and they knew that too, seems like there are no hard feelings on anyones part and Catz and the gang get more security and can focus more on SC2 than managment side of things.
Really everyone seems to win, Steven will be fine and Col will be fine
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That was so not professional =/
Maybe for actions like this that the people who invest in E-Sports get afraid to put more money.
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On June 24 2011 02:12 Erotheis wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2011 02:11 Eleaven wrote:On June 24 2011 01:44 MrNastyTime wrote:
I do think it's stupid how they wanted destiny even though they knew about his vulgar language. If any team does pick him up it will be a team who wants more publicity and wants to get more fans and their name more out there.
So GL HF to who ever picks him up. It was set up to fail, in such a way that CoL would get to remain the "good guys" in the story. Of course they knew steven bonnell, the man who literally lives off of his personality, was not going to change. Imagine if he did suddenly change, and he puts his stream at risk of losing popularity. People watch him because he's entertaining, if he doesn't have that, he doesn't have the same level of income any more. It was never going to happen, but this way they can blame steven in a bitchy post on their website ^^ This isn't really what happened for the most part. Steven didn't want to be apart of the organization to start and complexity did a really nice thing by letting him out of his contract. So uninformed..
In all fairness, there were some ambiguous statements that suggest he "refused to play" for Complexity. If they had just said what coljbass said in here that he never really wanted to be a part of a big organization and they didn't want to have to deal with the image he presented and the language he used, that would have been a fine release. But in trying to come out looking like Destiny is a major bad-guy in the situation, it leads to more questions, which haven't been answered.
In honesty, I'd rather just put this to rest, but it would be nice if Complexity did clear up what they meant when one of their staff claimed he refused to play for the team among other things because there are numerous aspects of Destiny that I sort of get even if I don't agree with them, but refusing to play for your team is sort of douchey and a major negative to pin on someone.
Regardless, I don't think there's much more discussion to be had on the subject, it should really be put to rest.
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It's not like it's a big loss for coL. Destiny really doesn't seem to practice with the pros only on ladder which doesn't really improve his gameplay on the competitive level. I mean he is great for attracting people due to his popularity but aside from that not much else. How about LiquidDestiny ? ^_^
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On June 24 2011 02:12 Erotheis wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2011 02:11 Eleaven wrote:On June 24 2011 01:44 MrNastyTime wrote:
I do think it's stupid how they wanted destiny even though they knew about his vulgar language. If any team does pick him up it will be a team who wants more publicity and wants to get more fans and their name more out there.
So GL HF to who ever picks him up. It was set up to fail, in such a way that CoL would get to remain the "good guys" in the story. Of course they knew steven bonnell, the man who literally lives off of his personality, was not going to change. Imagine if he did suddenly change, and he puts his stream at risk of losing popularity. People watch him because he's entertaining, if he doesn't have that, he doesn't have the same level of income any more. It was never going to happen, but this way they can blame steven in a bitchy post on their website ^^ This isn't really what happened for the most part. Steven didn't want to be apart of the organization to start and complexity did a really nice thing by letting him out of his contract. So uninformed..
it is, until you starts reading the statement they posted.
It is almost as if they were the authorities investigating the situation, presenting an explanation while in fact it is extremely vague and as one-sided as it can be.
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United States527 Posts
On June 24 2011 02:26 Frequencyy wrote:
It's not like it's a big loss for coL. Destiny really doesn't seem to practice with the pros only on ladder which doesn't really improve his gameplay on the competitive level. I mean he is great for attracting people due to his popularity but aside from that not much else. How about LiquidDestiny ? ^_^
Well, actually he was practicing with his teammates a lot like CatZ and Stalife for the most part. If you noticed, they also had like team practices where they all take turns and such, so it wasn't 100% going lone wolf until like the past 3 days or so where this was starting to become known and such.
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How is this thread still going? Destiny is no where close to be good enough to join Liquid. I love all his supporters who have no idea what they are talking about. He broke the contract, so he was released. Why cant anyone seem to see that its mostly his fault for not reading the contract first? And even if he was rushed, he is a smart guy... He would have read the contract. Anyway, Destiny will find another team with no problem at all, good luck to him and his fanboys.
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Destiny finally getting some attention :D hope he joins some other team, like Vile or Liquid :D
Everyone who's hating is just jealous~ Go Steven
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I'll preface this by saying that the situation has obviously been resolved to the satisfaction of all parties. That said...
In all fairness, there were some ambiguous statements that suggest he "refused to play" for Complexity.
Asking to be released from a signed contract without doing what the contract asks and "refus[ing] to honor any terms of his contract" are pretty much the same thing. Without making a value judgment.
The one open question for me: I'd be interested to know why exactly the original Complexity release made reference to the content of his stream, like whether there was a specific issue with it after the contract was signed or whether they just became aware of its content after the agreement. At the very least, that paragraph suggests that there were some bad feelings, even though they did come to an agreement to release him from the contract.
Edit: I have absolutely read every word Destiny's posted in this thread, and it doesn't sound like there's a factual disagreement between his and Complexity's view of the matter. However, the tone of the original release is still interesting due to its aggressive tone, and the subsequent comments by Jason and Destiny didn't really explain the jab about the stream content in their release.
Edit 2: There's nothing inherently shameful in asking to be released from an employment contract. I've done it myself, albeit under somewhat different conditions. It's worth noting that it's extremely hard to compel performance by an employee under such a contract, though, so Complexity really didn't have much choice. It takes a relatively extraordinary level of monetary damages to make it reasonable to, say, sue an employee for breaking such a contract, and the actual monetary damage to Complexity in this particular situation was probably nearly zero.
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On June 23 2011 06:02 Destiny wrote:
Sorry, I don't want to start any drama or anything, so here's my quip of the story
TL:DR : I signed the contract, I broke the contact, that's a pretty douche move.
Basically there'd been talks of ROOT/Complexity merging for a while, to relieve stress from catz/drewbie, which is cool, it gives them more time to play, etc...
One day, I got a message pretty much saying "hey, that contract is due tonight, you gotta sign it today". I pretty much had half a day to decide whether or not to sign, and it seemed like if I didn't sign, the deal would fall through for the rest of the team. I didn't want to mess up everyone's opportunities to move on with their career just because I felt uncomfortable, and there was nothing -too- objectionable in the contract, so I signed it.
In the following days, I had more time to think about it, and the more I turned it over in my head, the more problems I found with the arrangement, and the more reasons I found not to be associated with a major business SC2 team, at least not at this moment in time. I talked a long time to Catz, and had a few words with Jason, and eventually settled on the conclusion that I wouldn't actually be joining.
Just quoting this because it seems people are still posting in this thread without reading the first 10 pages, then making up assumptions about Destiny based off of the original post.
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Destiny is good for a team, because he has such a huge fanbase. No offence, but he's not good enough to compete at the highest levels, so it's a bit of a dilemma for teams to sign him or not.
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On June 24 2011 02:51 Smapz wrote:
Destiny is good for a team, because he has such a huge fanbase. No offence, but he's not good enough to compete at the highest levels, so it's a bit of a dilemma for teams to sign him or not.
Have you seen Complexity's roster? Destiny, Minigun and CatZ were/are the top skilled players on that team.
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On June 24 2011 02:19 Mordiford wrote:
In honesty, I'd rather just put this to rest, but it would be nice if Complexity did clear up what they meant when one of their staff claimed he refused to play for the team among other things because there are numerous aspects of Destiny that I sort of get even if I don't agree with them, but refusing to play for your team is sort of douchey and a major negative to pin on someone.
To clarify this, "refusing to play with the team" was not meant to be as literal as it's being taken. I'm sure playing with the team, in terms of its players, wasn't a problem to him, however he refused to change his name (to represent the team), or participate in organization mandated requests, such as representing a specific sponsor with a specific banner or something along those lines. He made it clear to us that he did not want to play for the organization, so we obliged his request by dissolving the contract.
For those saying that we should sue him over the breach of contract...
We are human beings, much like him. We would not sue someone trying to support his family just because we can, when the contract could easily just be dissolved with no harm done. We are a business, yes, but we are also gamers ourselves...we do have compassion and understanding. We are not, regardless of what people will tell you, corporate tyrants. We have been involved with lawsuits before, and in this case it would be likely that no one would win, regardless of the judicial outcome.
Summary of above: Please don't make uneducated comments about lawsuits.
Also, for the sake of repetition, I'll paste a response I gave to a user via the Facebook area of our website to clear a few things up:
"The game's T rating has nothing to do with the objections we have to some of his content. I can assure you that it isn't cursing and overall humorous bm that we are objective to. Racial and homophobic slurs are not something that most take lightly, regardless of the context. It's just not something we have ever tolerated as an organization, plain and simple.
Steven not remaining in a contract has little, if anything, to do with his behavior on his stream though. He regretted signing a contract, as he expressed, but we were still willing to work with him. As it became apparent that he was not willing to participate in obligations such as name changes, blogging, setting up his stream, it was also apparent that he wouldn't be a part of the organization in the near future. We wanted to work with him to correct this, but as time progressed it was decided that it would be more beneficial to mutually part ways, with stream content only being factor that contributed to the announcement being sooner rather than later.
Personally, I will continue to watch his stream and support what he does, as I want to see him succeed in providing for his family and having a successful life. I know it's hard to understand, but the decision by both parties to mutually terminate the contract was a business decision, not personal. It is obviously in the nature of the community to create friction where need not be.
*Note: Contrary to popular belief, Steven was not asked to censor himself, but merely to tone down his use of racial and homophobic slurs. I can't see how everyone acts like we wanted to put duct tape over his mouth and insert a voice over post-edit. If you're in a workplace, odds are you don't talk like that, and before you say anything...YES, "pro-gamers" have a workplace and it's called Starcraft II."
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steven doesn't want to sell out on his own beliefs, and i respect that. i'd lose respect for him if he agreed to the contract at the expense of his beliefs and personality.
there aren't enough interesting people in the spotlight. they all have to sign contracts to be bland and uninteresting for fear of reflecting poorly upon their sponsors. it's almost sickening to me. you hear the description of almost any sponsored player, and it's usually along the lines of "oh, well he's a really nice, well mannered guy, and he's really good at the game". if steven signed to a contract like that, there wouldn't be anything notable about him anymore.
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On June 24 2011 02:53 axellerate wrote:
Have you seen Complexity's roster? Destiny, Minigun and CatZ were/are the top skilled players on that team.
In order of GM league ranking, from top to bottom, the team's members in the league (plus Destiny) are:
coLrsvp
ROOTdrewbie
coLMinigun
coLRyze
NOVAstalife
coLCatZ
ONECrunCher
[ROOTDestiny]
coLFireZerg
Looks to me like the ROOT folks are mixed in pretty evenly.
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On a side note, what Steven chooses to say on his stream is his own. A simple few sentences from Complexity stating that would have solved the whole issue. On the other hand, Steven might not have wanted to join the team anyways; who are we to speculate.
The reason why people like watching Destiny's stream is because most of what he says is raw opinion and it isn't sugar coated. A lot of people respect that and can relate to that. As for the statements coL released talking about what he says on stream, there is a user agreement before watching Steven's stream that states 'you are above 18 years of age and don't have any problems with explicit statements'.
With all that being said, sponsors require viewers in order for them to be satisfied. What people like to view is not Starcraft purely. If I wanted to watch top tier Starcraft, I would load up an MC vs idrA replay and go to town. His viewers aren't attracted to top tier play, their attracted to his overall output and personality. This is something teams and sponsors need to recognize.
Viewers = Happy sponsors and Disclaimers = Happy team.
Gamers aren't completely stupid.
GL Steven and don't ever change man.
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Why is there so much hate on here, for destiny or complexity. Both i think made proper choices that represent their interest and thats not a bad thing at all. It does look more bad on destiny for breaching his contract. I am sure destiny had his reasons. I personally think it was a good choice by complexity to release him from his contract and allow destiny to make the choice. So both parties have done the right thing that best repersents them. Although the language is a sad thing that eventually may prevent destiny to get into major team , but when that time comes i think its up to destiny to tone it down or stay with the way he is.
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On June 24 2011 03:03 Lysenko wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2011 02:53 axellerate wrote:
Have you seen Complexity's roster? Destiny, Minigun and CatZ were/are the top skilled players on that team. In order of GM league ranking, from top to bottom, the team's members in the league (plus Destiny) are: coLrsvp ROOTdrewbie coLMinigun coLRyze NOVAstalife coLCatZ ONECrunCher [ROOTDestiny] coLFireZerg Looks to me like the ROOT folks are mixed in pretty evenly.
Ladder ranking is completely irrelevant. I know diamond players that could obliterate master players. Just because they don't ladder heavily, doesn't mean they don't have a higher understanding of the game. Likewise to GM ranking players.
MC isn't top on the ladder in Korea.
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EPT
