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ROOTCatZ
Peru1238 Posts
On June 17 2011 21:43 Liquid`HayprO wrote: this time its huk that deserves that credit. oh well, it was much funnier to picture you saying it, like that time at MLG where you stayed standing in the middle of nowhere for a minute or two to later yell "YOU BRING THE BALL!!" as a thread sort of. But I love huk so its all good, less funny tough, for sure <3 | ||
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Frankon
3054 Posts
On June 17 2011 21:54 Jibba wrote: I think one thing that's absolutely necessary for the situation to develop and something Catz might be overlooking, is that so far it's been a two way relationship between the Korean SC2 leagues/teams and foreigner leagues/teams. As long as they continue to make their resources available to us as well, then it can still be beneficial for both sets of communities to grow together. It's not just the GSL House either, but the MLG/GSL partnership, TorcH/TSL, oGs-TL house, Rain/Twilight and lots of other things where Korean players/teams are paying attention to the West and trying to interact with us. It's not as if they're just flying in, sniping some prizes and then ignoring us. I can understand the concern coming from BW though, where WCG's basically always felt like that and aside from eStro, there was little to no interaction from Korea and the players who did go there weren't accepted very well (unlike the TorcH/TSL thing.) It's not the exact same situation, but I think Catz' nightmare situation would be something akin to the American/Japanese baseball relationship, where MLB teams pick out all the best players from Japan and rarely do they give anything back (besides Tom Selleck) or try to improve the Japanese baseball system. As a result, Japanese baseball is somewhat dying and more people just want to follow MLB instead of their own teams. The two systems don't have to be on equal footing as far as infrastructure or talent goes, but the resource sharing needs to continue from both sides, and then I think Catz' worries might be a non-issue. Isn't it Torch/ST not TSL or sth changed? | ||
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mcfrog
14 Posts
The best thing about the Korean system is the best players have to continuously face each other. There is no Code B/A/S system in the foreign scene, and I think having so many tournaments actually hurts the scene as it spreads the best players too thin. | ||
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gosu86
208 Posts
I pay for tournaments for the best players! Plain and simple. I wouldn't have bought a mlg pass if there were no koreans. I'm not saying people either than koreans suck but some of the best games I have seen are from koreans. I've lost all respect to catz want to win money train harder and terrible excuse just terrible | ||
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Shardz
United States349 Posts
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primebeef
United States140 Posts
It may or may not generate more revenues that way, depending, he wants the advertise big leagues to be exclusively to non koreans. Just like the analogy he used about what would happen if you tossed a not as accomplished team vs the big dogs, yes you will probably lose more often(still have a chance) but it will help them improve because they are playing vs people who are potentially better than they are, they won't improve much if they are playing no-bodies everyday, it might be a rewarding feeling if you win but it doesn't mean anything if you can't beat anyone who is potentially better than you. In terms of the growth of e-sports in the west, it could go either way. On one side you can see the die hard western fans, who will most likely still watch the tournament although they disapprove of the koreans like Catz, and on the other, you have fans that are die hard korean fans who would like to see them participate in the league, and in the middle of all this you have people who just wants to see good matches, which the koreans have shown repeatedly. Although they didn't really want to see something like July plow through the open bracket, and that might be discouraging to some players. ^^ Although it may be discouraging, the great ones will over come adversity and say 'I will get him next time' and practice even harder so that the next time won't be a repeat of what happened. While the losers will say 'Oh well, we can't beat them' or 'We shouldn't be playing them / We have no chance'. This is true throughout all sports, and when shit hits the fan you will see who is a winner and who is a loser. Catz said something along the lines of 'we need someway to compete, we can still compete against the koreans, but for how long?' Does the koreans have a natural born talent that makes them good at starcraft? The answer is no, but they put in long hours everyday to become champions, they have the desire to become the very best, if there is someone with the desire to do that in the west, then they will practice like them or even harder and they will do well. People in the past who have practice and it has shown off, all though they haven't won it all, people like Jinro, Huk, and Idra <-(even b4 sc2) has around a 50% win ratio vs the koreans, which shows that they can step up to the competition, unlike the people who get stompped and continues to get stompped on because they like to talk but not live up to the competition and train their asses off. | ||
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valaki
Hungary2476 Posts
On June 17 2011 22:27 gosu86 wrote: I think it was a stupid explanation and heres my reason I pay for tournaments for the best players! Plain and simple. I wouldn't have bought a mlg pass if there were no koreans. I'm not saying people either than koreans suck but some of the best games I have seen are from koreans. I've lost all respect to catz want to win money train harder and terrible excuse just terrible Basically, this is my opinion too. There are people now, who are living off from SC2 OUTSIDE korea. That's a huge thing! Those people are incredible lucky, to live in such an age. So why can't they compete (well, aside from the obvious ones, like Idra) with the koreans, if they have absolutely nothing to do besides improving themselves? Can a pro answer me this? | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
Er... yeah. Same difference. :x | ||
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Benkestok
Denmark63 Posts
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Mawi
Sweden4365 Posts
I agree with him on some parts :3 | ||
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00Visor
4337 Posts
On June 17 2011 22:27 gosu86 wrote: I think it was a stupid explanation and heres my reason I pay for tournaments for the best players! Plain and simple. I wouldn't have bought a mlg pass if there were no koreans. I'm not saying people either than koreans suck but some of the best games I have seen are from koreans. I've lost all respect to catz want to win money train harder and terrible excuse just terrible I agree to this. It`s not all about the players, it`s about the fans and the tournament organisators (more koreans => more viewers => more revenue). It`s surely true that its more difficult for foreigners to earn money this way. But this makes for more competition and motivation which will help foreigners catch up to koreans (eventually). It`s all working now, we get foreign team houses, etc. | ||
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ArchAiA
United States6 Posts
I don't really think that MC, MMA, and Losira really cared much about winning the $14k grand prize at MLG. Honest to god truth is that they did MLG a favor by coming over to play. But they also did themselves a favor. This is not a zero sum game yet where the audience is choosing between pepsi and coke (MLG, or GSL). A lot of MMA fans were created at MLG, as were a lot of Ret fans, Idra fans, and Slush fans. More importantly a lot of MLG fans were created that day, and maybe some GSL fans as well. Most importantly a lot of Starcraft fans were created that day, and if you ever want western e-sports to have a "Grand Prize" of more than $14k, a lot more are going to have to be created. I'm not asking MC to turn pepsi into coke, I just want him to get more people to drink the cola whatever the brand may be. I'm an economist by the way, and the OP makes a number of simplifications that he should have addressed. Trade neither is a zero sum game. Placing quantity restrictions on imports, or protecting industry in any way may be better for domestic firms (producers, in this case players), but has a tendency to lead to deteriorating product quality. As long as "the best" are present at a tournament existing consumers will benefit, and new consumers will be brought in. There are so many more wrongs with the analogy that I think the post would have been much better had it just been left out. | ||
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tdynasty
Canada220 Posts
E-sports is about multi cultural. I think fans love the best players, love amazing games. Foreigners vs Koreans really shows amazing players in the foreign scene. It promotes competition. The fans (e-sports) backbone want to see Koreans play, we don't care if they win the prize pool. We just care about talent! | ||
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Mellon
Sweden917 Posts
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Thorantham
United States221 Posts
On June 17 2011 23:14 tdynasty wrote: All of those justifications are more or less illogical. E-sports is about multi cultural. I think fans love the best players, love amazing games. Foreigners vs Koreans really shows amazing players in the foreign scene. It promotes competition. The fans (e-sports) backbone want to see Koreans play, we don't care if they win the prize pool. We just care about talent! I don't just care about talent. I care about the uncertainty of the outcome. I feel like at this point the odds on a Korean winning a foreign tournament are so high it impacts my interest. It's like watching a MLB team play the local AAA affiliate day after day, week after week. Sure the AAA team will win a few games but not often enough for me to be a season ticket holder. | ||
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CodeskyE
United States777 Posts
opinion's meaning = a personal belief. | ||
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primebeef
United States140 Posts
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Dizz
United States17 Posts
Just my .02. | ||
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Thorantham
United States221 Posts
On June 17 2011 23:31 primebeef wrote: I dunno it might be racist, because he is talking about not wanting Koreans to play in the american leagues, and he mentioned things like NASL which has people from europe also playing here but not once did he mention anything about it. It has nothing to do with race, it's about skill level. If the Koreans were playing in events and consistently coming in 23rd or 50th this thread wouldn't exist. | ||
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
A young soccer loving dude in Sweden can work hard and do his best and can easily support himself professionally from playing in a swedish club in allsvenskan. He doesn't have to be good enough to be in the world cup to work with what he loves. And it's an amazing thing for the sport. THAT is what Catz want for SC2, and I think it sounds great. | ||
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