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On June 17 2011 06:37 nAgeDitto wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2011 06:34 GwSC wrote:On June 17 2011 06:31 Aristotle7 wrote:Jesus christ, Blizzard thinks Infestor Broodlord is OP in ZvT?! So Ultra is bad and now they might make Broodlords slower? Z will have no tier 3 soon at all. The hope for proper balancing is dashed to the ground again.  Lol, I seriously doubt they'd make Broods slower. In that case you'd have to strain to even tell they were moving  It would probably some kind of Infestor nerf if anything. Which is funny considering the recent buff. I think with the recent buff, more people have turned their attention to the infestors and its 'opness' became prominent. You can see this a bit in PvT after the ghost change where people will mix in 10~12 ghosts in their army and the protoss 'death ball' is a dead ball . In that situation the ghost unit looks op. The units were always pretty goiod, but the 'buff' patches put a spotlight on them :D
the ghost change is actually a nerf in pvt
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"All of the matchups are close to 50%, except for 2"
TvZ
PvZ
TvP
So 2 of the three matchups are off?
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On June 17 2011 06:16 On_Slaught wrote:
"The mothership is more geared towards casual players." - David Kim
Holy shit that is a HORRIBLE explanation for why they keep a HORRIBLE unit in competitive play. How about give the terran all the units in the single player too for the bronze and gold league players?
They just told protoss that you get one less viable unit b/c its fun for some players who don't care about winning.
I thought it seemed like a really good explanation, zerg have less units altogether than T and P and Terran have units that aren't used much either (raven is a good example). In BW there was at least 1 unit per race that wasn't used in competitive play, and it didn't make it a boring game or a bad spectator sport.
Also the more useful units you put into the game it exponentially gets harder and harder to balance, so maybe buffing all these units might not be a good thing, as it would really make for a difficult time for Blizzard.
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so they didnt say anything about the carrier
my hopes are dying slowly
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Why add a unit that is not worth using. They filll up protoss tech tree with crappy units that arent that viable ( maybe MS if its a PvZ and he has no corrupter's for some reason) when all the other races have units that are usable even at pro play....
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Lol, I'm fine with them keeping in the ability to rush as long as scouting is increased a little bit (which they are planning on), it's pretty much necessary for terran to not get rolled over by zerg who just drones forever, and midgame is exceptionally difficult for protoss to do anything so there has to be an early all-in or turtling until tech is developed and you get a deathball. If you're going to remove the ability to rush, tone down zerg's macro mechanic some at least early game.
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Do note guys that these interviews were done before the last MLG so blizzards stance on infestor/broodlord being "op" has probably changed after seeing terrans starting to use ghosts vs zerg. While not many do on the NA server, I know koreans do alot and I can't comment on EU terrans either.
I hope for season 3 they remove scrap/delta/xelnaga at least, that would make me a happy panda bear 
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On June 17 2011 06:16 On_Slaught wrote:
"The mothership is more geared towards casual players." - David Kim
Holy shit that is a HORRIBLE explanation for why they keep a HORRIBLE unit in competitive play. How about give the terran all the units in the single player too for the bronze and gold league players?
They just told protoss that you get one less viable unit b/c its fun for some players who don't care about winning.
Agreed, another thing this brings to mind is when he says "units like that" when referring to the mothership,is I can't help but feel he is talking about Carriers too (I'm not sure if cattlebruisers fall in this category too) Seriously though, what other units besides carriers, motherships and possibly cattlebruisers could fall into "units like that" in David Kim's mind??
on another note,
Right now I feel like the real problem with infestors is they deal with anything, they disable any micro from units like blink stalkers or stim mm, they crush and low hp units like marines, they just got a buff vs mechanical untis, they can steal any massive unit like a thor or colossus and use it against you, infestors are also great at shutting down air units, and infestors are great units for harassment, o wait fungal can detect cloaked units too. I don't think there should ever be a unit that can counter everything in the game when used well. On top of this once infestors are out the zerg can deal with anything and then get out ultra's or broodlords easily, which are hard enough to deal without the infestors there.
How can they really think its good for the game for zerg to have these kind of late game power units, but toss's late late game units should be for casuals, and storm should take an hour and 2 tons of gas to get out. Fungal, no research required.
I play terran now btw. I'm not trying say the game is imbalanced, just that I can't understand the thinking behind some of these things whatsoever.
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On June 17 2011 06:48 Laurence wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2011 06:16 On_Slaught wrote:
"The mothership is more geared towards casual players." - David Kim
Holy shit that is a HORRIBLE explanation for why they keep a HORRIBLE unit in competitive play. How about give the terran all the units in the single player too for the bronze and gold league players?
They just told protoss that you get one less viable unit b/c its fun for some players who don't care about winning. I thought it seemed like a really good explanation, zerg have less units altogether than T and P and Terran have units that aren't used much either (raven is a good example). In BW there was at least 1 unit per race that wasn't used in competitive play, and it didn't make it a boring game or a bad spectator sport. Also the more useful units you put into the game it exponentially gets harder and harder to balance, so maybe buffing all these units might not be a good thing, as it would really make for a difficult time for Blizzard.
There is only one unit in BW that isn't used in competitive play - the Scout.
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On June 17 2011 06:48 simansh wrote:
"All of the matchups are close to 50%, except for 2"
TvZ
PvZ
TvP
So 2 of the three matchups are off?
Lmaoo so truuee
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On June 17 2011 06:43 k!llua wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2011 06:40 QTIP. wrote:On June 17 2011 06:16 On_Slaught wrote:
"The mothership is more geared towards casual players." - David Kim
Holy shit that is a HORRIBLE explanation for why they keep a HORRIBLE unit in competitive play. How about give the terran all the units in the single player too for the bronze and gold league players?
They just told protoss that you get one less viable unit b/c its fun for some players who don't care about winning. omg..... my thoughts exactly ><. I can't believe he said that on record. Blizz: "Here, have this unit. We put it in there because lesser players enjoy using it in low-level games. It's concept is cool no?" "..." -.- Blizz: "What? You want to use it in a tournament for money? Wait, this is going to be part of your strategy??? I"m sorry... let me redirect you to the unit we call the colossus..." you guys are being too elitist. not everything in a game needs to be tuned for competitive gaming. ever see the mac10 in serious counter-strike matches?
Mac10 relative to CS and the Mothership to sc2 protoss?? How does that comparison make any sense.
Mac 10 = cheap piece of shit no one cares about, not to mention you have something like 20+ guns you can choose from, with better cost-efficient substitutes.
Mothership = ultimate protoss unit, highest unit in the tech tree, for the most technologically advanced race.
People have been discussing its viability since beta... and one year later David Kim tell us we've just been wasting our time???
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On June 17 2011 06:48 simansh wrote:
"All of the matchups are close to 50%, except for 2"
TvZ
PvZ
TvP
So 2 of the three matchups are off?
The way I understood it, he meant that 2 of the 9 server-MU's were imbalanced. So two of:
TvZ (KR) TvZ (EU) TvZ (NA)
...etc
were imbalanced. Which is a big difference.
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On June 17 2011 06:48 simansh wrote:
"All of the matchups are close to 50%, except for 2"
TvZ
PvZ
TvP
So 2 of the three matchups are off?
Nice observation :D
Anyway, it looks like we won't see new maps until season 3 T.T
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White-ra often does 2 gate stargate expand into fast carriers with a mothership: fun to watch but not necessary "casual".
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On June 17 2011 06:42 imareaver3 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2011 06:34 GwSC wrote:On June 17 2011 06:31 Aristotle7 wrote:Jesus christ, Blizzard thinks Infestor Broodlord is OP in ZvT?! So Ultra is bad and now they might make Broodlords slower? Z will have no tier 3 soon at all. The hope for proper balancing is dashed to the ground again. Lol, I seriously doubt they'd make Broods slower. In that case you'd have to strain to even tell they were moving It would probably some kind of Infestor nerf if anything. Which is funny considering the recent buff. Also, remember the age of this interview. It predates MMA's discovery of mass drop play that shuts down BL/infestor.
Its irrelevant. Some speedlings/crawlers can defend drops.
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i like the balance more or less besides 1 thing...
rushes having no real economic impact.
A terran can 2 rax (proxy or not) pull SCV's and have it fail vs Z and still end up being basically even. This is a complete joke. There needs to be a choice, go for cheese win, play greedy or play standard. There shouldn't be this 'im going for cheese oh well it failed, time to play standard." I hate that, I want actually risks to being cheesy just like there are risks to playing greedy. The way the game is setup it's stupid to not 2 rax cheese, bunker rush etc., 20% free win 70% end up even, 10% end up slightly behind.*
*obviously numbers pulled out of my ass but I hope you get my point.
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On June 17 2011 06:42 imareaver3 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2011 06:34 GwSC wrote:On June 17 2011 06:31 Aristotle7 wrote:Jesus christ, Blizzard thinks Infestor Broodlord is OP in ZvT?! So Ultra is bad and now they might make Broodlords slower? Z will have no tier 3 soon at all. The hope for proper balancing is dashed to the ground again. Lol, I seriously doubt they'd make Broods slower. In that case you'd have to strain to even tell they were moving It would probably some kind of Infestor nerf if anything. Which is funny considering the recent buff. Also, remember the age of this interview. It predates MMA's discovery of mass drop play that shuts down BL/infestor.
Mass drop play was not discovered by MMA lmao
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On June 17 2011 06:54 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2011 06:42 imareaver3 wrote:On June 17 2011 06:34 GwSC wrote:On June 17 2011 06:31 Aristotle7 wrote:Jesus christ, Blizzard thinks Infestor Broodlord is OP in ZvT?! So Ultra is bad and now they might make Broodlords slower? Z will have no tier 3 soon at all. The hope for proper balancing is dashed to the ground again. Lol, I seriously doubt they'd make Broods slower. In that case you'd have to strain to even tell they were moving It would probably some kind of Infestor nerf if anything. Which is funny considering the recent buff. Also, remember the age of this interview. It predates MMA's discovery of mass drop play that shuts down BL/infestor. Its irrelevant. Some speedlings/crawlers can defend drops.
If it was that easy, Losira and July would have beaten MMA's drop style late game. That they didn't attests to how good it is. A Z on 4 bases has to have a lot of speedlings sitting around if he wants to be able to defend drops--especially 16-marine drops--that could appear anywhere at any time.
On June 17 2011 06:56 Liudo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2011 06:42 imareaver3 wrote:On June 17 2011 06:34 GwSC wrote:On June 17 2011 06:31 Aristotle7 wrote:Jesus christ, Blizzard thinks Infestor Broodlord is OP in ZvT?! So Ultra is bad and now they might make Broodlords slower? Z will have no tier 3 soon at all. The hope for proper balancing is dashed to the ground again. Lol, I seriously doubt they'd make Broods slower. In that case you'd have to strain to even tell they were moving It would probably some kind of Infestor nerf if anything. Which is funny considering the recent buff. Also, remember the age of this interview. It predates MMA's discovery of mass drop play that shuts down BL/infestor. Mass drop play was not discovered by MMA lmao
I don't remember any other player using it to that effect against world-class Zerg's before. Yeah, you're right, he didn't discover it, but he was--as far as I know--the first player to really use it that well.
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Good interviews.
Broodlord Infestor OP??? That just boggles my mind. My personal Motto about Hive Tech units is They don't win you the game, they just end games you've already won.
I don't feel that a Zerg Late game composition, takes you from a disadvantage, to an advantage.
Also switching to hive tech units is tricky. Switch too soon and your dead, Switch too late your also dead.
I feel like Ghosts would completely obliterate that composition. You could probably even land a nuke on a flock of Brood Lords they're so slow.
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EPT
