EPTJP interviews Blizzards Dustin Browder & David Kim - Page 24
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Nazeron
Canada1046 Posts
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aztrorisk
United States896 Posts
Secondly, keeping motherships and carriers useless? So zerg and terran have practically all of their units be versatile while protoss will continue to have 2 useless units. How is that balanced? Even battlecruisers are essential in TvT as it is good against tanks. So people who likes to make can make big units. You know, one of my friend was really happy when he made his first mothership. Then he almost immediately became sad when he found out how much the mothership sucks. So blizzard, you are bring people's hopes up just to crush it. Can blizzard possibly fail anymore? -Still pissed off about no LAN, and stupid custom maps interface. I'm losing all hope in blizzard. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
Secondly, keeping motherships and carriers useless? So zerg and terran have practically all of their units be versatile while protoss will continue to have 2 useless units. How is that balanced? Even battlecruisers are essential in TvT as it is good against tanks. Carriers are great vs Terran Mech. It's not the Carrier that is underpowered, it's mech that doesn't get played! The mothership is a unit which starts being useful after 25min of the game, in pretty much any matchup. I really don't see why players refuse to build it, once they start hitting max and still cannot straight up attack, as it is sooo supplyefficient, and money doesn't matter a lot at that time. + Show Spoiler + Just look at Dimaga vs Socke on Crevasse. INCREDIBLE use of the motherships recall | ||
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Sargaz
Canada7 Posts
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pwadoc
271 Posts
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Mowr
Sweden791 Posts
On June 19 2011 18:34 pwadoc wrote: I'm starting to think David Kim isn't very good at his job. Close to 50% W/L on all matchups and constantly getting closer, and you think he doesn't do his job well? The amount of zerg qq in this thread disgusts me. | ||
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SiaBBo
Finland133 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On June 19 2011 19:21 Mowr wrote: Close to 50% W/L on all matchups and constantly getting closer, and you think he doesn't do his job well? The amount of zerg qq in this thread disgusts me. his post doesn't say anything about his race... and yeah, we zergs do qq about our carriers and motherships being underpowered. Lol no, that's the Protoss players and we do complain about broodlord+infestor... lol blizzard only pointed out, that there might be a problem. they are watching it. disgusting comment, on your side! | ||
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ksn
Italy34 Posts
For example in TvZ i'd prefer to see zerg having serious possibility of doing pressure in the early and mid game and the bloodlords infestor nerfed so T can actually fight back in late And there are some specific problems with Z scouting that overall may balance the game (because if the scouting was better the win/loss ratio would favor zerg), but again I would prefer to see better scouting in some situations and some nerfs somewhere else I don't think statistical data is everything | ||
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Mowr
Sweden791 Posts
On June 19 2011 20:32 Big J wrote: his post doesn't say anything about his race... and yeah, we zergs do qq about our carriers and motherships being underpowered. Lol no, that's the Protoss players and we do complain about broodlord+infestor... lol blizzard only pointed out, that there might be a problem. they are watching it. disgusting comment, on your side! If you are going to make a straw man argument, at least do it well. | ||
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MShaw006
United States74 Posts
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dezi
Germany1536 Posts
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Lexodus
Finland2 Posts
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The Final Boss
United States1839 Posts
On June 17 2011 06:27 On_Slaught wrote: Unit numbers aside the protoss shouldn't be giving up something for nothing. If having 2 more unit options was that important protoss wouldn't have a much higher winning % than they do now. Ultimately the mothership is there b/c it is supposed to fill a role, which could have gone to a better unit if it wasn't there (arbiter  ).Looking past any of that, I just think it is sad to think they put a unit into multiplayer with basically no intention of it being a serious unit. Those units should stay in single player. Just fundamentally bad design. You've got to be kidding me, right? Protoss has such a huge variety in units. Think of all the different, viable unit compositions they have in each match-up: Colossi+Gateway, Upgrades+Gateway, Archon/HT+Zealot, Archon/HT+Immortal, Voids/Phoenix+Gateway, Voids+Colossi, of course Protoss players haven't even explored using the carrier (probably because Void Rays are so powerful that for the most part they're a better option, but whatever). I'm assuming that what you're saying is that Protoss is somehow weaker then the other races because you don't have Arbiters. I don't know if you've ever played Zerg or Terran, but in StarCraft 2 they actually don't have Arbiters either so I guess all races are UP. And who's to say that there is no use for the Mothership. Inventive players like HuK and KiWiKaKi have used the Mothership in entirely different fashions (HuK rushes with it whereas KiWi was the one who I first saw use the Archon toilet). Are either of those things going to become standard play? No of course not, but it doesn't mean that somehow the Mothership is this unit that will never serve any purpose (personally I disagree with the nerf to the Mothership's Vortex ability in the most recent patch, but that's besides the point). Let's look at another unit that got nerfed and for a while everybody said that it would never be used again: the Terran's Reaper. After Nitro Packs got nerfed, I think everybody thought that they would never see the beauteous 5 Rax Reaper into Marauder Transition that once dominated TvZ. Those people were right, we have yet to see that build used since then; however, Reapers recently are used by a lot of high level Terran players in all Match-Ups for scouting purposes. Players like Kas often go for builds involving a reaper first for scouting. The role of the unit is very different then what it was back when MorroW beat IdrA at IEM, but it still serves a purpose. Then qxc in the TSL3 used Reapers in a very odd fashion against Genius (at least I think it was that match) on Xel'Naga Caverns. Personally I think by the time he started getting Reapers he was so far ahead that he could have beaten Genius with anything in those dropships, but still it was an inventive way to use Reapers. As far as the Mothership goes, who knows, perhaps it will be used, I mean despite it being slow and costly, it is still a giant floating unit that cloaks all your unit and can teleport your entire army across the map. Why must you use Recall to bring all your units directly to their base, why not use it to pull all your units back. SLIGHTLY OFF TOPIC: Also, just out of curiosity when you say "If having 2 more unit options was that important protoss wouldn't have a much higher winning % than they do now" what winning percentages are you referring to exactly? If you're talking about tournaments and you want to tell me that clearly the GSL ST shows how UP your race is, think about it like this: the two best P's in the entire world played each other first round, and the other didn't lose until he met the eventual champion (  MC, Alicia,  Polt). Also, it just so happens that TvP happens to be Polt's best Match-Up, so it isn't even that surprising to me that Polt won that match. And if you're trying to say that Terran is overpowered as proven by the Super Tournament I'd like to point you towards the results of the StarsWar Killer 6. Outside of PvP, the four finalists combined lost a total of 3 games on their trip to the finals. Of the 11 P's, only 3 failed to get to the second round.Or perhaps if you want another tournament with similar results let's look at the TSL3. Outside of PvP, only seven P's lost, and three of them ( NaNiwa, MC, Tyler) didn't lose until they met the champion, ThorZaIN. That being said I'm not blaming this on imbalance or anything, but rather stating that P's can do well in major tournaments with big name players of other races. Protoss isn't UP at all, personally I think the game is quite balanced (though Infestor/Broodlord is ridiculously hard to deal with haha), and the fact that P's have the option to build Motherships, as odd and eccentric as they may be, does not somehow make them underpowered. Would you be happy with the way that David Kim has balanced the game were he to completely remove Motherships from the game? | ||
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shr0ud
Finland222 Posts
As a terran player TvZ just feels like a ticking timebomb which just becomes more unwinnable the longer the game goes on and I really dislike the fact that playing macro is completely unviable option. | ||
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ksn
Italy34 Posts
Also I feel that since Z can't really do anything in the early - mid game against marines tanks if the T plays correctly, I feel it's totally normal that if you fail you loose. Besides, I remember that when Z complained about P and T deathballs the answer was "don't fight the deathball" Fun to see how for broodlord infestor is totally different ^^ | ||
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Madkipz
Norway1643 Posts
my point being. They removed the lurker stating it overlapped with some roles. and now the infestor has been buffed to fill its own role and the lurker role at the same time. | ||
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xza
Singapore1600 Posts
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ppdealer
Canada163 Posts
On June 20 2011 01:15 shr0ud wrote: There is a problem when a zerg 200/200 army can beat terran 200/200 army in a standup fight. Zerg is supposed to have the weakest and the least cost-effective units, which is equalized by the ability to remax unspeakably fast. As a terran player TvZ just feels like a ticking timebomb which just becomes more unwinnable the longer the game goes on and I really dislike the fact that playing macro is completely unviable option. Zerg can remax really fast only if they have the resource to do it. This means that Zerg essentially has the weakest late game at the 200 food mark due to Zerg no longer being able have an economic advantage. I don't know why people think that Zerg can just draw resource from some secret fund to make full use of every single one of their larvae at anytime they like. Also Terran is not weak in the late game simply because of how strong their harassment are (meaning it's much more expensive for Protoss or Zerg to secure extra expansions than Terran). The only weak point for Terran is their mid-game due the way the macro mechanics work for the other races, but you can harass to keep up. | ||
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
And who's to say that there is no use for the Mothership. Inventive players like HuK and KiWiKaKi have used the Mothership in entirely different fashions (HuK rushes with it whereas KiWi was the one who I first saw use the Archon toilet). Are either of those things going to become standard play? No of course not, but it doesn't mean that somehow the Mothership is this unit that will never serve any purpose 100% agreed. Motherships aren't somethng you plan to tech to at the start of the game, but they are super useful in a lot of really lategame situations where supply is a bigger concern than resources. Not every unit has to show up in all or even most maches--its okay for there to be rare units that show up only occasionally, and when they do everyone goes "oh snap, a Mothership!" I mean, in BW, a ton of ghost play (esp. stuff like lockdown) was super niche stuff--you could watch 50 T matches and not see a single one. Did that mean it shouldn't be in the game? No, because on the rare occasions when someone did use it to deliver a win, it was awesome (see: Boxer). Motherships have a lot more in common with that kind of thing, than something like Scouts--a lame, useless unit with no place whatsoever. | ||
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