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On June 13 2011 20:49 ICanFlyLow wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2011 20:43 RM_12 wrote:On June 13 2011 20:40 ICanFlyLow wrote:On June 13 2011 20:33 RM_12 wrote:On June 13 2011 20:28 ICanFlyLow wrote:
Whats up with 2gate proxy zealot rush in PvP. I cant block that with 2 gate stalkers and probe micro (if that even exists) ?
1 zealot goes into my mineral line and the other chases my stalkers, so what do i do? I sorround the zealot in my mineral line with my probes to kill it, use move attack with my stalker on the zealot chasing it and after some time when he keeps sending more and more zealots by the end of it i have no probes left. What am i doing wrong? This should totally be doable. Am i suppose to pull all my probes away from the mineral line? Am i forced to put down a forge and cannon just to block it?
Assuming i went 1 gate core in the beginning. This should really come down to a micro situation, but it doesnt. If the opponent knows what he is doing and where to place those zealots ur fucked.
Solution: Buff workers. Yes, wall with cannon(s) behind if you can do it in time will be your best bet and you will end up far ahead. Cut probes the moment you scout it to put down the forge and wall asap. Disclaimer: I do not play Terran
I know Raven's Seeker Missile gets a lot of hate, but in TvP, couldn't you theoretically SM, say, 1-2 sentries and a collosi or two? I feel if you SM multiple units in the protoss 'death ball' during a heated fight, it's simply infeasible for the protoss to micro those units away.
Possibly find some way with EMP to enhance the effect (EMP + SM = obliterated deathball?), or using autoturrets to wall off/funnel protoss units, or even SMing a cloaked ghost sitting in the middle of their death ball.
This would require some flanking/positioning, but I feel the potential is there for Seeker Missile to deal significant damage to the protoss deathball. Most terrans are not smart enaugh to use raven outside of 1 base all-in, but in end game multiple PDD's are stronger than HighSchoolMusical because if you go vikings he need's stalkers or phenixes. Im not trying to bash the game, but this is exactly what makes it fucking boring. Not sure i fallow, you want to beat a cheese strategy without any effort or change to your build, and win seasly after that? Also why are you playing a boring game ^^ Micro is an exciting and skill based feature. Not to freaking wall yourself in with cannons.
MKP held an IN-BASE proxy 2gate with a 1rax cc opener, so don't act like there's no micro in this game. I think that it is feasable to hold proxy 2gate zeal with 2gate stalker, you just maybe need better micro or to rethink how you'll micro. for example, maybe pull your probes back to your stalkers, and use them to buffer zeals so you can get more shots off instead of splitting up your stalkers and probes and letting him get more probe kills while lowering the overall dps of your forces. Also, with your 2nd gate, make a 1hex wall (ala PvZ) and use a zeal to block it if possible, if you scout the proxies early. that way he'll either have to burn down a gate while you have time to get stalkers, or he'll go 1v1 with your zeal.
just my 2cents
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On June 15 2011 00:05 madcow19 wrote:Show nested quote +On JuNe 14 2011 22:45 Jitensha wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Something I've been wondering about lately:
I seem to have hit a Point where I face people with a clearly more refined play than me (still Only diamond though, so pretty low level). This had led me to think that I need to get some Solid BO practise done lest I suffer more silly losses that could've been avoided by having banelings out 10 seconds earlier. My question:
How strict are Z BOs a few minutes Into a game? So far (Which has obviously been a detrimental thought process) I usually have everything planned out until like 25 supply, upon Which I try to react to what the opponent does and get things "as soon as I think I can get away with it" while following patterns based on previous games. What kind of mindset do you better players have regarding BOs? I'm a bronzie but I watch a ton of Day[9] stuff, and it sounds like you're not expanding if you're getting stuck at 25 supply. I play the Zerg pieces myself, and it's very important to stay one base ahead of your opponent. If you watch proZergs and if they're playing the macro game then all you really see is drones and queens up until around 40 supply.I would also recommend really paying attention to your larva injects. Missing one early in the game can seriously affect your mid/late game. I would also say keep sending those scouts, if you've got a zergling right in front of his base you'll see him push out and you can then prepare by cranking out some units and maybe a spine or two. Pretty generic advice but stuff you still have to keep on top of. If you posted a replay I'm sure someone could explain exactly what you should be working on.
While I appreciate the time you took to make that reply, I think my point didn't come across the way I wanted it to 
I was wondering about how rigid other Z players' build orders are - as in if they have a basic plan down to the very supply count (or second) for their build, while of course allowing changes due to scouting/incoming harass etc.
Of course I don't neglect scouting/droning/expanding/mechanics - I'm thinking about the mindset on how to plan games.
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Look at this: http://sc2ranks.com/team/3882956#5:2011
Can someone explain how does one drop from master league to bronze in one day? He was in masters in may 30th but dropped to bronze in june 1st and he's now rank 1 bronze with over 3k wins. He's in masters league in 3v3 and 2v2 atm. How is it possible?
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I'm assuming he lost a LOT of games before that one day and his MMR adjusted him on june first. I'd assume for portrait farming purposes. Maybe during late may when the ladders were locked he lost all the games and didn't get on until May 30th, a week after ladder unlock. Many explanations, most of them involve me assuming he was trying to portrait farm.
Jitensha I may only be a platinum Zerg but I find it impossible to have a rigid build order beyond the first 20 supply. I may go into the game thinking I want to hatch first, but I see a rax depot at the bottom of the ramp or forge first or its zvz. To be zerg is to be fluid with your decisions and rely upon reacting to your oppenent based on your experiences and plan than drone drone queen overlord drone baneling nest
It does have rigidity in certain ways though. If I see 2rax opening I want 100 gas for metabolic boost then I want no more until 5 minutes, I want to have 16 zerglings to keep his 2rax from crossing the map unbothered. But its.. idk, this should be answered by someone better than me.
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On June 15 2011 02:21 Myolden wrote:Look at this: http://sc2ranks.com/team/3882956#5:2011Can someone explain how does one drop from master league to bronze in one day? He was in masters in may 30th but dropped to bronze in june 1st and he's now rank 1 bronze with over 3k wins. He's in masters league in 3v3 and 2v2 atm. How is it possible?
By instantly leaving every game. I've seen someone do this before, I don't really understand why they do it though. Maybe they want to start playing a new race in bronze again.
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On June 13 2011 20:31 rust.oxide wrote:
Disclaimer: I do not play Terran
I know Raven's Seeker Missile gets a lot of hate, but in TvP, couldn't you theoretically SM, say, 1-2 sentries and a collosi or two? I feel if you SM multiple units in the protoss 'death ball' during a heated fight, it's simply infeasible for the protoss to micro those units away.
Possibly find some way with EMP to enhance the effect (EMP + SM = obliterated deathball?), or using autoturrets to wall off/funnel protoss units, or even SMing a cloaked ghost sitting in the middle of their death ball.
This would require some flanking/positioning, but I feel the potential is there for Seeker Missile to deal significant damage to the protoss deathball.
The problem with Seeker Missile is that it requires a moderately "close" range in order for it to be cast. In a normal Protoss vs Terran maxed supply armies, that would put the Raven just in front of the Marine/Marauder line, well in range of Voidrays and Stalkers.
You can possibly negate that by throwing in a point defense drone or two, but due to the energy costs, a single Raven cannot cast both a seeker missile (125) AND a point defense drone (100). So would have to expend additional resources for additional Ravens. At that point it would be better served to just invest in straight point defense drones (You can get 2 out of a max raven compared to just a single missile + 1 auto turret). Or to drop the Ravens and invest in more Vikings.
Logically also while the damage potential is huge for a clumped up deathball, your Raven is likely to be incapacitated well before it would be able to launch the missile.
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On June 15 2011 02:33 Sennap wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 02:21 Myolden wrote:Look at this: http://sc2ranks.com/team/3882956#5:2011Can someone explain how does one drop from master league to bronze in one day? He was in masters in may 30th but dropped to bronze in june 1st and he's now rank 1 bronze with over 3k wins. He's in masters league in 3v3 and 2v2 atm. How is it possible? By instantly leaving every game. I've seen someone do this before, I don't really understand why they do it though. Maybe they want to start playing a new race in bronze again.
Usually it's so they can portrait farm, because it takes quite a long time to rack up 3k wins or so in masters league.
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How do you fellow Protoss players deal with 1 base terrans spamming shit outta raxes? If i expand - he comes and kills me with marauders that can stim till they're at 10% hp but there is nothing left to kill them. If i tech, he kills me or i barely get 1-2 collo in time and hold while loosing it.
Recently i've encountered terran that was on one base till 130 supply and came with mass marine/banshee with few tanks behind it and raven and GOOD LUCK scounting that when his surrounding himself with turrets behind wall on high ground... i mean how is this even possible that they can support all this shit. I seriously think that marines and marauders should cost more.
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On June 15 2011 12:05 RM_12 wrote:
How do you fellow Protoss players deal with 1 base terrans spamming shit outta raxes? If i expand - he comes and kills me with marauders that can stim till they're at 10% hp but there is nothing left to kill them. If i tech, he kills me or i barely get 1-2 collo in time and hold while loosing it.
Recently i've encountered terran that was on one base till 130 supply and came with mass marine/banshee with few tanks behind it and raven and GOOD LUCK scounting that when his surrounding himself with turrets behind wall on high ground... i mean how is this even possible that they can support all this shit. I seriously think that marines and marauders should cost more.
The most terran can support off 1 base is four barracks. If he does this, you can always stay one base as well and hold your ramp with force fields while teching to colossus. Warp prism is also really nice if you see him camping the bottom of your ramp with his whole army. Just sneak into his base and warp in a bunch in a corner. Continue to hold your ramp with FF while destroying his main.
If you really want to get some useful help with PvT, you should try to make this a little more specific, link some replays of your games, and post it on the strategy forum.
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On June 15 2011 01:51 Jitensha wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 00:05 madcow19 wrote:On JuNe 14 2011 22:45 Jitensha wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Something I've been wondering about lately:
I seem to have hit a Point where I face people with a clearly more refined play than me (still Only diamond though, so pretty low level). This had led me to think that I need to get some Solid BO practise done lest I suffer more silly losses that could've been avoided by having banelings out 10 seconds earlier. My question:
How strict are Z BOs a few minutes Into a game? So far (Which has obviously been a detrimental thought process) I usually have everything planned out until like 25 supply, upon Which I try to react to what the opponent does and get things "as soon as I think I can get away with it" while following patterns based on previous games. What kind of mindset do you better players have regarding BOs? I'm a bronzie but I watch a ton of Day[9] stuff, and it sounds like you're not expanding if you're getting stuck at 25 supply. I play the Zerg pieces myself, and it's very important to stay one base ahead of your opponent. If you watch proZergs and if they're playing the macro game then all you really see is drones and queens up until around 40 supply.I would also recommend really paying attention to your larva injects. Missing one early in the game can seriously affect your mid/late game. I would also say keep sending those scouts, if you've got a zergling right in front of his base you'll see him push out and you can then prepare by cranking out some units and maybe a spine or two. Pretty generic advice but stuff you still have to keep on top of. If you posted a replay I'm sure someone could explain exactly what you should be working on. While I appreciate the time you took to make that reply, I think my point didn't come across the way I wanted it to I was wondering about how rigid other Z players' build orders are - as in if they have a basic plan down to the very supply count (or second) for their build, while of course allowing changes due to scouting/incoming harass etc. Of course I don't neglect scouting/droning/expanding/mechanics - I'm thinking about the mindset on how to plan games.
I'm only high plat, but I don't think zerg macro build orders come that close.
For example I always open 15 hatch 17 pool (Yes, very greedy zerg here). But sometimes I let my focus slip and miss it by 1 supply or so. Of course, this will make me miss ~50 minerals in later game, but it doesn't matter that much.
Really zerg just depends on basic openers and responding after that.
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On June 15 2011 01:51 Jitensha wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 00:05 madcow19 wrote:On JuNe 14 2011 22:45 Jitensha wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Something I've been wondering about lately:
I seem to have hit a Point where I face people with a clearly more refined play than me (still Only diamond though, so pretty low level). This had led me to think that I need to get some Solid BO practise done lest I suffer more silly losses that could've been avoided by having banelings out 10 seconds earlier. My question:
How strict are Z BOs a few minutes Into a game? So far (Which has obviously been a detrimental thought process) I usually have everything planned out until like 25 supply, upon Which I try to react to what the opponent does and get things "as soon as I think I can get away with it" while following patterns based on previous games. What kind of mindset do you better players have regarding BOs? I'm a bronzie but I watch a ton of Day[9] stuff, and it sounds like you're not expanding if you're getting stuck at 25 supply. I play the Zerg pieces myself, and it's very important to stay one base ahead of your opponent. If you watch proZergs and if they're playing the macro game then all you really see is drones and queens up until around 40 supply.I would also recommend really paying attention to your larva injects. Missing one early in the game can seriously affect your mid/late game. I would also say keep sending those scouts, if you've got a zergling right in front of his base you'll see him push out and you can then prepare by cranking out some units and maybe a spine or two. Pretty generic advice but stuff you still have to keep on top of. If you posted a replay I'm sure someone could explain exactly what you should be working on. I was wondering about how rigid other Z players' build orders are - as in if they have a basic plan down to the very supply count (or second) for their build, while of course allowing changes due to scouting/incoming harass etc.
Speaking of 'Rigid', I wonder where he went.. he used to stream all the time, and after MLG Dallas he kind of just... disappeared.
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^how good was he? ive never heard of him =/
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On June 15 2011 22:25 L3g3nd_ wrote:
^how good was he? ive never heard of him =/
vVv Rigid, never heard of him?
Before the grandmaster patch, he was a consistent top 200 Zerg player.
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Are hotkeys different at each region... im may buy a EU acc and i want to know, also the lag/delay let u play?
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Does anyone want to let me know the differences between a "normal" 4 gate and an econ 4 gate? Such as building timings and probe count. Thanks.
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I'd assume an econ 4 gate doesn't stop probe production..
In other news, its nice to know that the leagues are still bugged. I was first in my platinum division for a week solid, going up against top 8 diamond and masters. It was a little disheartening and I kept telling myself I would be promoted when I deserved it. Nice to know it wasn't just me feeling left behind.
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On June 14 2011 20:33 Probe1 wrote:
I've never heard anyone say:
If someone 6 pools you 6 pool them
If someone scv marine all ins SCV MARINE ALL IN!!!1!
If someone cannon cheeses you make many cannons in and around their base for ezpz win
The hell kind of...
If they proxy 2 gate you.. you proxy 2 gate at home?
Yeah micro battle, got it. But wouldn't it be wiser to just build a cannon?
No because it's 300 minerals to build a single cannon and about 85 seconds... The other player can just hold back with the zealots, and work towards 4gating the cannoning player because if the cannon is not at the rim of your buildings, stalkers can pick off every building at range 6 until they just overpower you in whatever way they prefer.
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On June 13 2011 15:33 travis wrote:
So the game has been out for almost a year now but I still think zergling unit size or pathing or whatever is ridiculous. It's stupid how hard they are to block out sometimes. Sometimes there is no way my wall isn't a complete wall and the zerglings run through my zealot, and i mean literally right through my zealot. Anyone else have this from time to time?
Lemme guess... It's either Slag Pits or Typhon Peaks right?
EDIT: no my bad it's gotta be Shakuras
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What did the grape say when David Kim sat on it?
+ Show Spoiler +Nothing, it just let out a little balance whine.
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EPT
