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On May 28 2011 00:02 LovE-z33k wrote:
I personally wouldn't do it, because I care about getting better at the game. But you wont get banned for it.
That makes no sense at all, this MAKES HIM better, well possibly.
Sure it reduces his chance of competing at LANs. But what if he doesn't aim for that? I mean being good doesn't mean you have to go to lans. If he justs finds this more enjoyable you'd be very mean to take away his joy. It doesn't hurt you, in fact, it hurts noone. The difference is really minimal and in reality just having a big minimap isn't making him king of the world, sure he may beat 1-2 more opponents per week because of it, but does that really matter? I'm quite sure it isn't a much higher number.
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On May 27 2011 22:16 Griffith` wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 22:13 monkh wrote:
you couldn't do it on a LAN tournament so no point really. I rebind my capslock to control (in both linux and windows) for all apps because it is 100x more ergonmic and lowers the risk of carpal tunnel. Does your argument also make this illegal?
You can use custom hotkeys in tournaments...
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I still think custom hotkeys and binding hotkeys that when pressed to multiple commands are more unfair then this.
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The only part in this that is questionably is that a 3rd party software is involved in affecting the game.
As mentioned before, the amount of information you get remains the same, so its ok.
I mean i could tell my roommate to sit next to me while playing and watch the minimap constantly and tell me if something is going on, that would pretty much be the same thing (or even better).
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its easier to watch the minimap in the corner than on a second monitor, no matter how big... surely?
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On May 28 2011 00:04 fatkid wrote:
It's absolutely fair, it'd be like me complaining about people with widescreens since they have more fov while I'm stuck playing 1280x1024.
He has a second monitor, other people have better monitors then me. Does it bother me ? Absolutely not.
Your logic is extremely flawed.
He's using an external program to mirror his minimap on a second monitor.
StarCraft 2 is designed to be played on 1 monitor. If not, there would be options to play it on 2 monitors, as dual monitors setups are extremely popular nowadays.
But StarCraft 2 is designed to manage different resolutions, be it 1280x1024, 1680x1050, 1920x1080, or even 1024x768 if you're unfortunate enough to be playing at that resolution.
To be absolutely fair, they would've had to include multi-monitors management in the game, and allow minimap to be resized and shown on the 2nd monitor.
And if it was the case, then most highly competitive event would probably have a dual monitor setup to allow this, because they would need to allow the optimum setup so progamers could use every little tools to their advantage.
Seriously, I'm having troubles to believe that you really are serious with that statement... How can you even compare having a bigger monitor, to using an external application to mirror and zoom your minimap so you have an easier time having a good map awareness?
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Haha, I find it hard to believe so many people think this is cheating. All he does is zoom minimap.
It's just like saying playing on 42" TV = cheating as you have bigger image than someone playing on 15" monitor.
Would you bring TV to lan tournament? Well... I highly doubt it 
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The main question you have to ask yourself is... will he win because he is using bigger minimap or because he played better than you?
hint: bigger minimap will not make you MVP/Nestea/MC.
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Would be using second monitor even beneficial? From personal experiences I find one big 24"+ monitor more then enough for starcraft2.
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I don't see how its much of an advantage. I've tried doing that before with my friend's dual screen and I found constantly switching views from one screen to the other is way more annoying than switching between the center and bottom left of my screen. I constantly look at the minimap for little red dots (that's basically all I used it for) and in that regard it seems big enough as it is lol.
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It's kind of obvious that this is an unfair advantage, why do you need us to tell you this?
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
I don't see why people are making such big deal about 'unfairness'
it's not like OP said he's going to go pro or something, he made this app to probably make his experience in SC2 more enjoyable in his own way
have fun OP, seems like an awesome app
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the whole point of the minimap is to have a quick view of everything... making it bigger seems to possibly just make it more difficult to look at. Plus moving your eyes to another monitor may mean you might miss something anyways.
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What about visually impaired players? If you have a visual problem (like I do) maybe it gives you a chance not an advantage. What about keeping a really big magnifying lens on a flexible arm over the mini-map? How is that any different from a mouse cord on a bungee?
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On May 27 2011 22:21 boombtz wrote:
Word, I only play a few games a day, all random team. Never played at a LAN but I can see you all's point in that regard. I was just thinking about how to utilize a second monitor and found the software to pull it off, so I posted the info.
The only real benefit is that it makes me feel like I got a command center going - extra nerd points. Otherwise do not worry, I will not be storming the grandmaster league anytime soon 8)
I kinda figured the 'not be storming the grandmaster league any time soon' part from seeing the picture... 9k minerals banked, man? Wow... just wow.
Anyways, this might just give you an advantage, maybe make playing somewhat more comfortable (on the other hand, it might do just the opposite), but I don't really think you should care. On a similar note, I don't have widescreen (HD monitor) yet, just an old 17" from 2006, so I think I actually see less of the battlefield than folks who have one. Kinda feel handicaped a bit there, but try to do my best at adverse conditions.
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On May 27 2011 22:10 lurked wrote:
If you have that kind of questions, you should always ask yourself : "Would they let me do this in a LAN tournament".
Would they let you bring a second monitor and plug it in before your games to do this? No.
Is it fair/ethical? No.
Will you get ban for it? No.
Will you get better playing like this? In fact you'll get worse, because I'll get used to having a stupidly big "mini"map.
This pretty much explains everything. If this was fair, the pros would be doing it, wouln't they?
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is it an unfair advantage? yes
will i care? no
personally i have a hard enough time focusing on one screen 
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To those saying that you can't do it in a LAN so no, what about those who never intend to play in a LAN? I like playing SC2 alot but I dont ever plan on playing in tournament. So why would using a bigger mini map be wrong?
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On May 27 2011 23:53 sereniity wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 23:23 TheAuditor wrote:
How is this not fair? How is using your resources available to get every advantage unfair?
Is it unfair that I have a superior mechanical keyboard and a better mouse than people I ladder against? No it's not. They have the same capacity as I (as a player of the game) to go buy the superior product to help improve their game. This is the exact same reasons.
Is it unfair that I can change my in game settings to help me view cloaked units better, while someone else must play on low in ordre to play? No it isn't, because they can go buy a better computer in order to do the same thing.
This is exactly the same reasoning and thought process. It is FAIR because I am the one playing the game against my opponent. This may help play the game, but it doesn't play the game for me. Its the same reasoning and logic of a new mouse/keyboard. They help improve playing the game but they don't play the game for you. You still have to go out and play the game in order to get results.
Now, is it unethical? Who dictates ethics, the community or the TOS/game itself? Is this cheating? No it is using resources available to the user. I don't view that as unethical at all.
You can't use this at LAN tournaments? What about ones where you BYOC and there is no limit on monitors/space. If the tournament doesn't explicitly say you can not have more than one monitor, then you are welcome to bring two and use this program.
Is it unethical in the community sense? That's for the community to decide. One isn't required to say GG after every game, and they don't have to say GL HF GG, etc in the beginning of the game. It is in their best interest to, because when invites go out for tournaments, they are more likely to choose players without a bad rep. EX: CombatEx. Why doesn't he get invited to any lower tier tournaments? Probably his reputation, however he plays the game according to the rules setforth by Blizzard and Battle.net and he has success with them. The thing is, there's no option to increase the minimap size, blizz intended it to be the size it is, and they don't want it changed. Anyone can go buy a new keyboard or mouse, that's something outside of the game, however everybody doesn't have the knowledge of how to do this minimap trick, nor is it allowed since blizzard does NOT want you to increase the size of the minimap, if they would want you to do so then they'd make an in-game option for it. Basically, buying a mouse or a keyboard is your own choice, it's gaming GEAR, it doesn't affect any in-game options. Getting another monitor, linking it to your computer and setting up an important part of the game ON THAT OTHER MONITOR and then increasnig the SIZE of it (when it is clearly intended to not be increased) is, and should be against the rules. Besides that, this will only make you play worse if you're at a LAN with some friends or a netcafé, just seems stupid. Personally I wouldn't mind if I played versus someone with this but I guess it's ALOT easier to spot drops with this wich is kind of unfair.
You just completely contradicted what you are trying to say. A monitor is part of your gaming gear. Is he changing anything inside the game? Is he injecting code in the game? Is he pulling information from the game and having a program analyze it and have it suggest/tell him what to do? No he's not doing anything near to that. What he is doing is displaying an image on the other screen. Is it unfair, in WoW arenas to put your UI on one screen and your character on another? No, it is not. Is it in the TOS that we all signed, that we cannot use two monitors for Starcraft 2? I don't believe it is. Whether Blizzard intended one monitor or two monitors is up to them. IF they decide they only want the game playable on one monitor, they will update the TOS and we will all have to sign it again.
Just because it should be against the rules doesn't mean it is.
Just because someone doesn't have the knowledge on how to do this, doesn't make it unfair or against the rules. There are Sc2 players out there that do not know that a keyboard can increase your playing ability. In your mind frame and your sense of judgement, it is unfair that all of us are using a superior keyboard to the person with the crappiest keyboard in the game.
If Blizzard intended the minimap to be the same size for everyone, the game would have a locked resolution. We wouldn't be able to play at a higher resolution and we would all have to have the same monitor in order to play. THat is not the case. Blizzard scaled the UI to adjust to certain resolutions more easily and optimized.
Just because the feature isn't in the options menu doesn't mean it's against the TOS. What about people (high level players, I believe MorroW and TLO have done this) who edit the game code in order to display cloaked units? Is that against the TOS? I don't believe so, and if it is, Blizzard will eventually ban players for doing it, or warn them or whatever.
If a college athlete has enough money to hire a personal assistant, outside of his team, and his assistant trains him and prepares him to play college sports, is it illegal/breaking the rules? No it is not because he personally did that out of his own pocket. If the NCAA thinks it is wrong, then they'll write a rule stating that you can't do that.
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I kinda figured the 'not be storming the grandmaster league any time soon' part from seeing the picture... 9k minerals banked, man? Wow... just wow.
hahahah I was waiting for someone to notice that. The screen shot was taken after the game was over - all 4 players minerals had been combined for a few minutes. This thread ended up pretty big haha.
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On May 28 2011 00:51 MrHoon wrote:
I don't see why people are making such big deal about 'unfairness'
it's not like OP said he's going to go pro or something, he made this app to probably make his experience in SC2 more enjoyable in his own way
have fun OP, seems like an awesome app
I don't want to lose to someone on ladder because he's gained an advantage using an external program to enlarge his minimap. People should play with the tools given to them. Changing the rules by changing the HUD is cheating.
If not, then where do you draw the line?
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alot of you guys are mentioning lan tournments but its 2011 and alot of big stakes tourneys are done over the internet, so this could easily start getting taken advantage of.
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EPT
