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Is it fair to use a second monitor set up so that it magnifies the minimap portion of your main monitor running sc? Is the benefit from doing this negligible? Am I going to be / should I be banned? lol, I hope not.
Had been thinking about this concept the other day and yesterday I found a free program that let me pull it off pretty easily - desktop zoom 3.5. I used windowed mode to create the window around the minimap and then went through the options of desktop zoom to make it stop auto-minimizing (beware, the program resets each time you run it - save the config)
Screenshots below from a 4v4 this morning (I have 9,000 minerals because the game was over for a couple of minutes, lol)
small
http://postimage.org/image/efywzslg/
big shot
http://postimage.org/image/eh2lw4g4//
program from cnet:
http://download.cnet.com/DesktopZoom/3000-2072_4-10496377.html
EDIT: windows 7 has a built in program: "Magnifier"
Has anyone else thought of a way that a 2nd monitor can benefit playing SC?
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I think someone had already posted about it and I think the answer most TL'er gave as that it should not be allowed because it clearly helps you, but probably not bannable by B.net.
So, merely unethical.
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no, and i wonder why you cant answer this yourself.
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no need it when you pay attention to minmap anyways
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It isn't against the letter of the rules but it is against the spirirt. So don't do it.
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ps, those 2 pictures are identical.
Personally I havent tried this and see no reason to, just further distance to move my eyes and harder to get an overview quickly... Your eyes need to scan the whole minimap in under a second, and having it larger will only make that take longer I assume? It's already large enough that its hard to miss things if you actually watch it.
Do you feel that this actually helps you?
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On May 27 2011 22:03 green.at wrote:
no, and i wonder why you cant answer this yourself.
this.
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I doubt its illegal, but it is slightly unethical. And if you get used to playing like that you will have trouble if you ever participate in a LAN-event.
And in any competition it does give you an unfair advantage.
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If you have that kind of questions, you should always ask yourself : "Would they let me do this in a LAN tournament".
Would they let you bring a second monitor and plug it in before your games to do this? No.
Is it fair/ethical? No.
Will you get ban for it? No.
Will you get better playing like this? In fact you'll get worse, because I'll get used to having a stupidly big "mini"map.
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Having turned it on last night/this morning I don't really find myself looking away from the main monitor that often. The only thing is the alerts seem to be more noticeable out of my peripheral vision.
Other than that, I thought it was cool idea and didn't see a post about it when I searched the forums. Maybe someone can use the program in a non-sc setting.
edit: only difference between the two screenshots is the resolution.
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you couldn't do it on a LAN tournament so no point really.
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On May 27 2011 22:13 monkh wrote:
you couldn't do it on a LAN tournament so no point really.
I rebind my capslock to control (in both linux and windows) for all apps because it is 100x more ergonmic and lowers the risk of carpal tunnel. Does your argument also make this illegal?
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The intressting part is how this would affect minimap clicking, such as feedbacking ghosts by using the minimap. The reason to why most people said it was fair was due to the small size of the minimap compared to the gamemap made it hard to specificly click on unit on the minimap.
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I don't think you'd get banned for using something like this, as there's probably a dozen of reasons why someone could need a program like this.
But I personally wouldn't use it, not saying that it is cheating, it would just feel like cheating to me.
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Word, I only play a few games a day, all random team. Never played at a LAN but I can see you all's point in that regard. I was just thinking about how to utilize a second monitor and found the software to pull it off, so I posted the info.
The only real benefit is that it makes me feel like I got a command center going - extra nerd points. Otherwise do not worry, I will not be storming the grandmaster league anytime soon 8)
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I don't think there is anything wrong with it, I don't see how it would really be that big of an advantage since it doesn't actually display any new information and good players train themselves to constantly look at the minimap anyway. A-OK imo.
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On May 27 2011 22:10 lurked wrote:
If you have that kind of questions, you should always ask yourself : "Would they let me do this in a LAN tournament".
Would they let you bring a second monitor and plug it in before your games to do this? No.
Is it fair/ethical? No.
Will you get ban for it? No.
Will you get better playing like this? In fact you'll get worse, because I'll get used to having a stupidly big "mini"map.
well said, sir.
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Is it fair? Well no by definition it's not fair.
But is it cheating? Is having a 20foot monitor cheating?? :p
I actually think this is a really cool idea and I'm definitely going to set it up myself.
I don't actually think this will give you an advantage either it's just cool. When you're playing seriously at high speed you're so focused on one screen I don't see how glancing over to another screeen would help.
This is just on the same level as having a friend sitting behind you while you play who says things like "you've got 4 guys on gas".
Unfair yes, cheating no not really.
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On May 27 2011 22:10 lurked wrote:
If you have that kind of questions, you should always ask yourself : "Would they let me do this in a LAN tournament".
Would they let you bring a second monitor and plug it in before your games to do this? No.
Is it fair/ethical? No.
Will you get ban for it? No.
Will you get better playing like this? In fact you'll get worse, because I'll get used to having a stupidly big "mini"map.
Yeah this is exactly how it is. And it's not even close if it's a cheat or not imo
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I don't know if it's illegal. But it is defnitely not fair.
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On May 27 2011 22:16 Griffith` wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 22:13 monkh wrote:
you couldn't do it on a LAN tournament so no point really. I rebind my capslock to control (in both linux and windows) for all apps because it is 100x more ergonmic and lowers the risk of carpal tunnel. Does your argument also make this illegal?
Keybinds for SC2 are saved on Bnet. Are you sure LANs force you to use stock keybinds otherwise?
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You probably wont be banned, but manipulating gameplay in any way that the game on it's own doesnt allow you to I consider cheating.
So stop it.
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On May 27 2011 22:16 Griffith` wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 22:13 monkh wrote:
you couldn't do it on a LAN tournament so no point really. I rebind my capslock to control (in both linux and windows) for all apps because it is 100x more ergonmic and lowers the risk of carpal tunnel. Does your argument also make this illegal?
You can do THAT on a LAN tournament though.
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Do whatever you want. If you were ever going to play at a LAN, the question is pretty god damn obvious.
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This is like when people were asking if they could get banned using timers for queen injects. Do people really think Blizzard can monitor things outside the game that don't directly affect anything in game?
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You can train yourself to stare at the thing or just get an outrageously large monitor.
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It's not fair that people like MC and Idra get to play at a higher level than me.
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On May 27 2011 22:16 Griffith` wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 22:13 monkh wrote:
you couldn't do it on a LAN tournament so no point really. I rebind my capslock to control (in both linux and windows) for all apps because it is 100x more ergonmic and lowers the risk of carpal tunnel. Does your argument also make this illegal?
Do you use Capslock that much?
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It's definately ok on ladder, not possible on LAN and imo cheating in onlinetournaments.
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It's fair, don't let any of these dumdums tell you otherwise. They're too lazy to go get a second monitor
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On May 27 2011 23:12 Hawk wrote:
It's fair, don't let any of these dumdums tell you otherwise. They're too lazy to go get a second monitor
I second this. It's perfectly fine, and you're most likely not going to be playing some hardcore LAN tournament to worry about anyways. I don't think it's particularly useful (more screen distance to travel to see the enlarged minimap, + it's right next to the normal one) but that's as far as my "complaint" would go.
It's similar to playing with or without widescreen, which IIRC was shown to display more on the screen. I don't have widescreen. But I'm not gonna go kicking and screaming IT'S UNFAIR just because people do.
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id feel cheap using something that isnt allowed at lan events on ladder and id always feel better thinking my and my opponent were on an even playing field. makes it feel more fun for me personally
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On May 27 2011 23:12 Hawk wrote:
It's fair, don't let any of these dumdums tell you otherwise. They're too lazy to go get a second monitor
I agree. Some people seem butthurt about it - also doesn't seem you care about LANs, so screw them 
On May 27 2011 22:21 boombtz wrote:
The only real benefit is that it makes me feel like I got a command center going - extra nerd points. )
Hell yeah lol.
Gonna try out the program myself.
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It's cheating, and don't let any dumdums tell you otherwise.
You're modifying your playing experience in a way that gives you an advantage and that the designers didn't intend. It's cheating regardless of how acessible it is to other players.
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On May 27 2011 22:16 Griffith` wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 22:13 monkh wrote:
you couldn't do it on a LAN tournament so no point really. I rebind my capslock to control (in both linux and windows) for all apps because it is 100x more ergonmic and lowers the risk of carpal tunnel. Does your argument also make this illegal?
I should try this because I have the Steel Series 7G keyboard and my control button literally shoots out many times when playing a game, often when I'm in a rush and I have to actually stop and put it back on, such a pain! lol
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It's going to make a negligible difference imo, doesn't really matter.
But yeh it's not really in the ~spirit~ of things I guess.
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How is this not fair? How is using your resources available to get every advantage unfair?
Is it unfair that I have a superior mechanical keyboard and a better mouse than people I ladder against? No it's not. They have the same capacity as I (as a player of the game) to go buy the superior product to help improve their game. This is the exact same reasons.
Is it unfair that I can change my in game settings to help me view cloaked units better, while someone else must play on low in ordre to play? No it isn't, because they can go buy a better computer in order to do the same thing.
This is exactly the same reasoning and thought process. It is FAIR because I am the one playing the game against my opponent. This may help play the game, but it doesn't play the game for me. Its the same reasoning and logic of a new mouse/keyboard. They help improve playing the game but they don't play the game for you. You still have to go out and play the game in order to get results.
Now, is it unethical? Who dictates ethics, the community or the TOS/game itself? Is this cheating? No it is using resources available to the user. I don't view that as unethical at all.
You can't use this at LAN tournaments? What about ones where you BYOC and there is no limit on monitors/space. If the tournament doesn't explicitly say you can not have more than one monitor, then you are welcome to bring two and use this program.
Is it unethical in the community sense? That's for the community to decide. One isn't required to say GG after every game, and they don't have to say GL HF GG, etc in the beginning of the game. It is in their best interest to, because when invites go out for tournaments, they are more likely to choose players without a bad rep. EX: CombatEx. Why doesn't he get invited to any lower tier tournaments? Probably his reputation, however he plays the game according to the rules setforth by Blizzard and Battle.net and he has success with them.
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Seems fair to me, why wouldnt it be?
If that isnt fair then using a large monitor isnt fair either? Makes no sense.
On May 27 2011 23:18 GagnarTheUnruly wrote:
It's cheating, and don't let any dumdums tell you otherwise.
You're modifying your playing experience in a way that gives you an advantage and that the designers didn't intend. It's cheating regardless of how acessible it is to other players.
Modifying your playing experience so that it gives you an advantage? Uhh, by that definition having a good keyboard or being well rested is cheating as well. Or having better sound/video settings or better computer.
Pretty simple definition of cheating: breaking the rules of the game. ie. looking at your opponents screen/maphack etc.
I dont think there is a rule of how clear the minimap should be.
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Seems fair to me too. First of all this feature should be ingame for people with two monitors.
And we all don't have same resolution monitors, so that helps those who have two monitors instead.
I really don't see problem in this matter, and no, you wont get banned.
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I dont think the OP deserves all of the hate from this thread lol. He clearly cares about what the community thinks, otherwise he wouldn't have brought it up in the first place. In my opinion, the setup is very creative for something that isn't very easy to see in the first place.
With that being said, it may work on ladder, but you will be excommunicated if you ever go to a lan setting with that setup. My suggestion is to practice without it so that you just get yourself used to the smaller minimap. It's MINI map for a reason =].
Honestly, if you play a DotA / HoN / LoL game, those really train you to be minimap aware.
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yeah thats not fair lol, its still a cool idea, and i honestly wish the minimap was slightly larger anyways... 2v2 and 3v3 games is hard to spot everything on the bigger maps.
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About cheating, Supreme Commander has an option to turn your second monitor into a minimap, essentially your whole second monitor is your minimap, Those that do not own a second monitor couldn't use that feature and had to do with the standard minimap. The same thing is going on here, it's definitely not cheating.
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While i agree with most of the sentiment here regarding "its not "cheating" but youre still an ass for doing it.
IMHO one should not use other software(drivers dont count if needed to make a mouse/keyboard worl) than starcraft itself when playing. All keybinding can be done within starcraft as well as graphics setting, etc. When you start telling people the method involves downloading a program, thats where it starts to get reaaaaally iffy. Any program that effectively makes an easier (or even just different) playing experience will not be tolerated by any playing organizations.
So yea, you wont get banned by blizzard, it is not "fair" by competitive standards, but really with the amount of hackers there are out there this is minimally bad.
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I don't see how it's unfair, it's not adding any new information
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No it's not "fair" but it doesn't matter unless you are planning on being pro, in which case using it would be a bad idea as it would hinder you long term.
It should be built into the game anyway, why the hell blizzard choose to keep the tiny minimap size that was appropriate in 1998 for use on 1024x768 screens is confusing to me.
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If you have bad eyes just go to the eye specialist and/or buy a bigger monitor.
It's not unethical nor is it unfair, even if you feel it is helping you play better. And the reason is that it actually doesn't provide you with more information than otherwise nor it helps you in other way more than the mini map helps a normal player.
A normal player has normal eyes which have the ability to clearly see everything that happens on the mini map. So not the size of the mini map is essential but the quantity and quality of the information you get from it. And the only thing that really weighs in this is remembering to look at the mini map.
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On May 27 2011 23:31 SixTwo wrote:
About cheating, Supreme Commander has an option to turn your second monitor into a minimap, essentially your whole second monitor is your minimap, Those that do not own a second monitor couldn't use that feature and had to do with the standard minimap. The same thing is going on here, it's definitely not cheating.
Huh. Time to reinstall that game (now that I do have a second monitor)
Also I think World in Conflict had a similar option.
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Is it cheating? No.
Is it fair? Yes. (you don't like people having that "advantage", then get your own)
Will I suddenly rise 3 ranks because I have this? No.
Do I plan on winning MLG with my new-found minimap skills? No.
Would I do this if I had problems watching the minimap? Heck to the farking yes I would.
Wtf is up with your people? The advantage gained is minimal. If you need this in the first place, then you aren't exactly a big LAN threat. It's a cool way to utilize a second monitor.
Heck, I wish i'd thought of it, and will probably set this up. I have no intention of going to LANs, I play for fun, and have only gold to diamond rankings in every gametype.
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Hmm it seems unfair, BUT when I'm playing with friends visiting we'll often advise each other while playing ladder games ("Maynard your workers", "have you started getting your upgrades", etc) and I'm sure this helps more than double minimap... But I've never considered THaT cheating...
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I think Heart of the Swarm should have an option to make the minimap bigger when you press a button.
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On May 27 2011 23:36 ffadicted wrote:
I don't see how it's unfair, it's not adding any new information
Yea I agree. I mean of course I wouldn't encourage anyone to get used to doing this as dual monitors is not common practice at LANs.
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I don't think this is unfair, its a creative use of your second monitor. There are plenty of little tricks people can do that give an advantage. One suggested by Day9 was to have a song playing at the start of every game, the timings of the song allow you to know what time to expect certain pushes or when to do certain things.
This requires another program - an audio player but is hardly cheating..
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On May 27 2011 23:23 TheAuditor wrote:
How is this not fair? How is using your resources available to get every advantage unfair?
Is it unfair that I have a superior mechanical keyboard and a better mouse than people I ladder against? No it's not. They have the same capacity as I (as a player of the game) to go buy the superior product to help improve their game. This is the exact same reasons.
Is it unfair that I can change my in game settings to help me view cloaked units better, while someone else must play on low in ordre to play? No it isn't, because they can go buy a better computer in order to do the same thing.
This is exactly the same reasoning and thought process. It is FAIR because I am the one playing the game against my opponent. This may help play the game, but it doesn't play the game for me. Its the same reasoning and logic of a new mouse/keyboard. They help improve playing the game but they don't play the game for you. You still have to go out and play the game in order to get results.
Now, is it unethical? Who dictates ethics, the community or the TOS/game itself? Is this cheating? No it is using resources available to the user. I don't view that as unethical at all.
You can't use this at LAN tournaments? What about ones where you BYOC and there is no limit on monitors/space. If the tournament doesn't explicitly say you can not have more than one monitor, then you are welcome to bring two and use this program.
Is it unethical in the community sense? That's for the community to decide. One isn't required to say GG after every game, and they don't have to say GL HF GG, etc in the beginning of the game. It is in their best interest to, because when invites go out for tournaments, they are more likely to choose players without a bad rep. EX: CombatEx. Why doesn't he get invited to any lower tier tournaments? Probably his reputation, however he plays the game according to the rules setforth by Blizzard and Battle.net and he has success with them.
The thing is, there's no option to increase the minimap size, blizz intended it to be the size it is, and they don't want it changed.
Anyone can go buy a new keyboard or mouse, that's something outside of the game, however everybody doesn't have the knowledge of how to do this minimap trick, nor is it allowed since blizzard does NOT want you to increase the size of the minimap, if they would want you to do so then they'd make an in-game option for it.
Basically, buying a mouse or a keyboard is your own choice, it's gaming GEAR, it doesn't affect any in-game options.
Getting another monitor, linking it to your computer and setting up an important part of the game ON THAT OTHER MONITOR and then increasnig the SIZE of it (when it is clearly intended to not be increased) is, and should be against the rules.
Besides that, this will only make you play worse if you're at a LAN with some friends or a netcafé, just seems stupid. Personally I wouldn't mind if I played versus someone with this but I guess it's ALOT easier to spot drops with this wich is kind of unfair.
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On May 27 2011 23:45 akaname wrote:
Hmm it seems unfair, BUT when I'm playing with friends visiting we'll often advise each other while playing ladder games ("Maynard your workers", "have you started getting your upgrades", etc) and I'm sure this helps more than double minimap... But I've never considered THaT cheating...
That's actually much more cheating than increasing the size of the minimap slightly in my opinion. The increased minimap does not really help you all that much, I think the advantage can be pretty much neglected. Yeah sure dropships are bigger as well so you might see it easier, but you also have to look much further away so you might actually miss other information.
Advice from friends like 'hey there was an invisible Banshee there!' or 'maybe use your Forge to upgrade finally?' has a bigger influence on your play. Without the information, you might lose the game because you did not pay attention yourself. So using your friends' information is also a form of cheating, but it's obviously not something that be controlled so it's up to the player.
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Well, if you have trouble seeing the minimap on your setup, then why not?
It is not like it gives you more information that you normally would, and you actually have to move your eyes/head more to see this minimap. And I don't think Blizz can or will ban you for doing this, it's not maphacking or anything.
Personally can't see where this is unethical, your money and setup.
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I personally wouldn't do it, because I care about getting better at the game. But you wont get banned for it.
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Eh, up to you. If you want to be a better competitive player I wouldn't do it. If you don't care and just ladder casually why not I guess.
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It's absolutely fair, it'd be like me complaining about people with widescreens since they have more fov while I'm stuck playing 1280x1024.
He has a second monitor, other people have better monitors then me. Does it bother me ? Absolutely not.
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On May 28 2011 00:02 LovE-z33k wrote:
I personally wouldn't do it, because I care about getting better at the game. But you wont get banned for it.
That makes no sense at all, this MAKES HIM better, well possibly.
Sure it reduces his chance of competing at LANs. But what if he doesn't aim for that? I mean being good doesn't mean you have to go to lans. If he justs finds this more enjoyable you'd be very mean to take away his joy. It doesn't hurt you, in fact, it hurts noone. The difference is really minimal and in reality just having a big minimap isn't making him king of the world, sure he may beat 1-2 more opponents per week because of it, but does that really matter? I'm quite sure it isn't a much higher number.
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On May 27 2011 22:16 Griffith` wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 22:13 monkh wrote:
you couldn't do it on a LAN tournament so no point really. I rebind my capslock to control (in both linux and windows) for all apps because it is 100x more ergonmic and lowers the risk of carpal tunnel. Does your argument also make this illegal?
You can use custom hotkeys in tournaments...
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I still think custom hotkeys and binding hotkeys that when pressed to multiple commands are more unfair then this.
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The only part in this that is questionably is that a 3rd party software is involved in affecting the game.
As mentioned before, the amount of information you get remains the same, so its ok.
I mean i could tell my roommate to sit next to me while playing and watch the minimap constantly and tell me if something is going on, that would pretty much be the same thing (or even better).
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its easier to watch the minimap in the corner than on a second monitor, no matter how big... surely?
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On May 28 2011 00:04 fatkid wrote:
It's absolutely fair, it'd be like me complaining about people with widescreens since they have more fov while I'm stuck playing 1280x1024.
He has a second monitor, other people have better monitors then me. Does it bother me ? Absolutely not.
Your logic is extremely flawed.
He's using an external program to mirror his minimap on a second monitor.
StarCraft 2 is designed to be played on 1 monitor. If not, there would be options to play it on 2 monitors, as dual monitors setups are extremely popular nowadays.
But StarCraft 2 is designed to manage different resolutions, be it 1280x1024, 1680x1050, 1920x1080, or even 1024x768 if you're unfortunate enough to be playing at that resolution.
To be absolutely fair, they would've had to include multi-monitors management in the game, and allow minimap to be resized and shown on the 2nd monitor.
And if it was the case, then most highly competitive event would probably have a dual monitor setup to allow this, because they would need to allow the optimum setup so progamers could use every little tools to their advantage.
Seriously, I'm having troubles to believe that you really are serious with that statement... How can you even compare having a bigger monitor, to using an external application to mirror and zoom your minimap so you have an easier time having a good map awareness?
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Haha, I find it hard to believe so many people think this is cheating. All he does is zoom minimap.
It's just like saying playing on 42" TV = cheating as you have bigger image than someone playing on 15" monitor.
Would you bring TV to lan tournament? Well... I highly doubt it 
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The main question you have to ask yourself is... will he win because he is using bigger minimap or because he played better than you?
hint: bigger minimap will not make you MVP/Nestea/MC.
*************************************
Would be using second monitor even beneficial? From personal experiences I find one big 24"+ monitor more then enough for starcraft2.
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I don't see how its much of an advantage. I've tried doing that before with my friend's dual screen and I found constantly switching views from one screen to the other is way more annoying than switching between the center and bottom left of my screen. I constantly look at the minimap for little red dots (that's basically all I used it for) and in that regard it seems big enough as it is lol.
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It's kind of obvious that this is an unfair advantage, why do you need us to tell you this?
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
I don't see why people are making such big deal about 'unfairness'
it's not like OP said he's going to go pro or something, he made this app to probably make his experience in SC2 more enjoyable in his own way
have fun OP, seems like an awesome app
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the whole point of the minimap is to have a quick view of everything... making it bigger seems to possibly just make it more difficult to look at. Plus moving your eyes to another monitor may mean you might miss something anyways.
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What about visually impaired players? If you have a visual problem (like I do) maybe it gives you a chance not an advantage. What about keeping a really big magnifying lens on a flexible arm over the mini-map? How is that any different from a mouse cord on a bungee?
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On May 27 2011 22:21 boombtz wrote:
Word, I only play a few games a day, all random team. Never played at a LAN but I can see you all's point in that regard. I was just thinking about how to utilize a second monitor and found the software to pull it off, so I posted the info.
The only real benefit is that it makes me feel like I got a command center going - extra nerd points. Otherwise do not worry, I will not be storming the grandmaster league anytime soon 8)
I kinda figured the 'not be storming the grandmaster league any time soon' part from seeing the picture... 9k minerals banked, man? Wow... just wow.
Anyways, this might just give you an advantage, maybe make playing somewhat more comfortable (on the other hand, it might do just the opposite), but I don't really think you should care. On a similar note, I don't have widescreen (HD monitor) yet, just an old 17" from 2006, so I think I actually see less of the battlefield than folks who have one. Kinda feel handicaped a bit there, but try to do my best at adverse conditions.
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On May 27 2011 22:10 lurked wrote:
If you have that kind of questions, you should always ask yourself : "Would they let me do this in a LAN tournament".
Would they let you bring a second monitor and plug it in before your games to do this? No.
Is it fair/ethical? No.
Will you get ban for it? No.
Will you get better playing like this? In fact you'll get worse, because I'll get used to having a stupidly big "mini"map.
This pretty much explains everything. If this was fair, the pros would be doing it, wouln't they?
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is it an unfair advantage? yes
will i care? no
personally i have a hard enough time focusing on one screen
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To those saying that you can't do it in a LAN so no, what about those who never intend to play in a LAN? I like playing SC2 alot but I dont ever plan on playing in tournament. So why would using a bigger mini map be wrong?
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On May 27 2011 23:53 sereniity wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 23:23 TheAuditor wrote:
How is this not fair? How is using your resources available to get every advantage unfair?
Is it unfair that I have a superior mechanical keyboard and a better mouse than people I ladder against? No it's not. They have the same capacity as I (as a player of the game) to go buy the superior product to help improve their game. This is the exact same reasons.
Is it unfair that I can change my in game settings to help me view cloaked units better, while someone else must play on low in ordre to play? No it isn't, because they can go buy a better computer in order to do the same thing.
This is exactly the same reasoning and thought process. It is FAIR because I am the one playing the game against my opponent. This may help play the game, but it doesn't play the game for me. Its the same reasoning and logic of a new mouse/keyboard. They help improve playing the game but they don't play the game for you. You still have to go out and play the game in order to get results.
Now, is it unethical? Who dictates ethics, the community or the TOS/game itself? Is this cheating? No it is using resources available to the user. I don't view that as unethical at all.
You can't use this at LAN tournaments? What about ones where you BYOC and there is no limit on monitors/space. If the tournament doesn't explicitly say you can not have more than one monitor, then you are welcome to bring two and use this program.
Is it unethical in the community sense? That's for the community to decide. One isn't required to say GG after every game, and they don't have to say GL HF GG, etc in the beginning of the game. It is in their best interest to, because when invites go out for tournaments, they are more likely to choose players without a bad rep. EX: CombatEx. Why doesn't he get invited to any lower tier tournaments? Probably his reputation, however he plays the game according to the rules setforth by Blizzard and Battle.net and he has success with them. The thing is, there's no option to increase the minimap size, blizz intended it to be the size it is, and they don't want it changed. Anyone can go buy a new keyboard or mouse, that's something outside of the game, however everybody doesn't have the knowledge of how to do this minimap trick, nor is it allowed since blizzard does NOT want you to increase the size of the minimap, if they would want you to do so then they'd make an in-game option for it. Basically, buying a mouse or a keyboard is your own choice, it's gaming GEAR, it doesn't affect any in-game options. Getting another monitor, linking it to your computer and setting up an important part of the game ON THAT OTHER MONITOR and then increasnig the SIZE of it (when it is clearly intended to not be increased) is, and should be against the rules. Besides that, this will only make you play worse if you're at a LAN with some friends or a netcafé, just seems stupid. Personally I wouldn't mind if I played versus someone with this but I guess it's ALOT easier to spot drops with this wich is kind of unfair.
You just completely contradicted what you are trying to say. A monitor is part of your gaming gear. Is he changing anything inside the game? Is he injecting code in the game? Is he pulling information from the game and having a program analyze it and have it suggest/tell him what to do? No he's not doing anything near to that. What he is doing is displaying an image on the other screen. Is it unfair, in WoW arenas to put your UI on one screen and your character on another? No, it is not. Is it in the TOS that we all signed, that we cannot use two monitors for Starcraft 2? I don't believe it is. Whether Blizzard intended one monitor or two monitors is up to them. IF they decide they only want the game playable on one monitor, they will update the TOS and we will all have to sign it again.
Just because it should be against the rules doesn't mean it is.
Just because someone doesn't have the knowledge on how to do this, doesn't make it unfair or against the rules. There are Sc2 players out there that do not know that a keyboard can increase your playing ability. In your mind frame and your sense of judgement, it is unfair that all of us are using a superior keyboard to the person with the crappiest keyboard in the game.
If Blizzard intended the minimap to be the same size for everyone, the game would have a locked resolution. We wouldn't be able to play at a higher resolution and we would all have to have the same monitor in order to play. THat is not the case. Blizzard scaled the UI to adjust to certain resolutions more easily and optimized.
Just because the feature isn't in the options menu doesn't mean it's against the TOS. What about people (high level players, I believe MorroW and TLO have done this) who edit the game code in order to display cloaked units? Is that against the TOS? I don't believe so, and if it is, Blizzard will eventually ban players for doing it, or warn them or whatever.
If a college athlete has enough money to hire a personal assistant, outside of his team, and his assistant trains him and prepares him to play college sports, is it illegal/breaking the rules? No it is not because he personally did that out of his own pocket. If the NCAA thinks it is wrong, then they'll write a rule stating that you can't do that.
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I kinda figured the 'not be storming the grandmaster league any time soon' part from seeing the picture... 9k minerals banked, man? Wow... just wow.
hahahah I was waiting for someone to notice that. The screen shot was taken after the game was over - all 4 players minerals had been combined for a few minutes. This thread ended up pretty big haha.
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On May 28 2011 00:51 MrHoon wrote:
I don't see why people are making such big deal about 'unfairness'
it's not like OP said he's going to go pro or something, he made this app to probably make his experience in SC2 more enjoyable in his own way
have fun OP, seems like an awesome app
I don't want to lose to someone on ladder because he's gained an advantage using an external program to enlarge his minimap. People should play with the tools given to them. Changing the rules by changing the HUD is cheating.
If not, then where do you draw the line?
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alot of you guys are mentioning lan tournments but its 2011 and alot of big stakes tourneys are done over the internet, so this could easily start getting taken advantage of.
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I think that the people who think this is unfair should actually try this out and realize how marginal of an advantage this would actually give him. Ask yourselves, when was the last time you actually missed something on the minimap because it was too small? If you don't see something on the minimap it's because you are distracted by something on the main screen, and more often than not having it displayed on the 2nd monitor is not going to help you.
I used to play Supreme Commander on 2 screens (a game which actually had full multi-screen support) and honestly, I found myself never using the 2nd screen. It was easier for me to use one screen because you simply don't have time to jump between monitors.
In my opinion, the time it takes to look between two screens is too long and would actually detract from your abilities, not offer you an advantage.
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Unethical as almost every warp prism/banshee/nydus is going to be spotted. Bannable? If blizzard finds out about it, there will be retribution.
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the point of it is its supposed to be small so you dont have to move your eyes as much therefore saving you time
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On May 28 2011 01:55 Kinetik_Inferno wrote:
Unethical as almost every warp prism/banshee/nydus is going to be spotted. Bannable? If blizzard finds out about it, there will be retribution.
First of all, if you cannot spot Banshees/Prisms/Nydus worms on the normal minimap, then that might be a problem on your end. Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure Blizzard made the original minimap so that you won't have any problem seeing any incoming warp prism/banshee/nydus worm if you pay attention. Second of all, I do not somehow see how magnifying the minimap will solve the main problem with most players: the fact that they don't even look at the minimap in the first place.
It's "fair" but completely unnecessary and unhelpful.
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Obviously not fair.
Would it be wrong if I had my little brother keep a constant eye on the minimap, so I didn't have to? Undoubtably (on several levels). Banable? How?
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On May 28 2011 01:02 TheAuditor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 23:53 sereniity wrote:On May 27 2011 23:23 TheAuditor wrote:
How is this not fair? How is using your resources available to get every advantage unfair?
Is it unfair that I have a superior mechanical keyboard and a better mouse than people I ladder against? No it's not. They have the same capacity as I (as a player of the game) to go buy the superior product to help improve their game. This is the exact same reasons.
Is it unfair that I can change my in game settings to help me view cloaked units better, while someone else must play on low in ordre to play? No it isn't, because they can go buy a better computer in order to do the same thing.
This is exactly the same reasoning and thought process. It is FAIR because I am the one playing the game against my opponent. This may help play the game, but it doesn't play the game for me. Its the same reasoning and logic of a new mouse/keyboard. They help improve playing the game but they don't play the game for you. You still have to go out and play the game in order to get results.
Now, is it unethical? Who dictates ethics, the community or the TOS/game itself? Is this cheating? No it is using resources available to the user. I don't view that as unethical at all.
You can't use this at LAN tournaments? What about ones where you BYOC and there is no limit on monitors/space. If the tournament doesn't explicitly say you can not have more than one monitor, then you are welcome to bring two and use this program.
Is it unethical in the community sense? That's for the community to decide. One isn't required to say GG after every game, and they don't have to say GL HF GG, etc in the beginning of the game. It is in their best interest to, because when invites go out for tournaments, they are more likely to choose players without a bad rep. EX: CombatEx. Why doesn't he get invited to any lower tier tournaments? Probably his reputation, however he plays the game according to the rules setforth by Blizzard and Battle.net and he has success with them. The thing is, there's no option to increase the minimap size, blizz intended it to be the size it is, and they don't want it changed. Anyone can go buy a new keyboard or mouse, that's something outside of the game, however everybody doesn't have the knowledge of how to do this minimap trick, nor is it allowed since blizzard does NOT want you to increase the size of the minimap, if they would want you to do so then they'd make an in-game option for it. Basically, buying a mouse or a keyboard is your own choice, it's gaming GEAR, it doesn't affect any in-game options. Getting another monitor, linking it to your computer and setting up an important part of the game ON THAT OTHER MONITOR and then increasnig the SIZE of it (when it is clearly intended to not be increased) is, and should be against the rules. Besides that, this will only make you play worse if you're at a LAN with some friends or a netcafé, just seems stupid. Personally I wouldn't mind if I played versus someone with this but I guess it's ALOT easier to spot drops with this wich is kind of unfair. You just completely contradicted what you are trying to say. A monitor is part of your gaming gear. Is he changing anything inside the game? Is he injecting code in the game? Is he pulling information from the game and having a program analyze it and have it suggest/tell him what to do? No he's not doing anything near to that. What he is doing is displaying an image on the other screen. Is it unfair, in WoW arenas to put your UI on one screen and your character on another? No, it is not. Is it in the TOS that we all signed, that we cannot use two monitors for Starcraft 2? I don't believe it is. Whether Blizzard intended one monitor or two monitors is up to them. IF they decide they only want the game playable on one monitor, they will update the TOS and we will all have to sign it again. Just because it should be against the rules doesn't mean it is. Just because someone doesn't have the knowledge on how to do this, doesn't make it unfair or against the rules. There are Sc2 players out there that do not know that a keyboard can increase your playing ability. In your mind frame and your sense of judgement, it is unfair that all of us are using a superior keyboard to the person with the crappiest keyboard in the game. If Blizzard intended the minimap to be the same size for everyone, the game would have a locked resolution. We wouldn't be able to play at a higher resolution and we would all have to have the same monitor in order to play. THat is not the case. Blizzard scaled the UI to adjust to certain resolutions more easily and optimized. Just because the feature isn't in the options menu doesn't mean it's against the TOS. What about people (high level players, I believe MorroW and TLO have done this) who edit the game code in order to display cloaked units? Is that against the TOS? I don't believe so, and if it is, Blizzard will eventually ban players for doing it, or warn them or whatever. If a college athlete has enough money to hire a personal assistant, outside of his team, and his assistant trains him and prepares him to play college sports, is it illegal/breaking the rules? No it is not because he personally did that out of his own pocket. If the NCAA thinks it is wrong, then they'll write a rule stating that you can't do that.
I believe you are coming to the wrong conclusion about what the game designers' stance on the matter would be.
Keep in mind that Blizzard had locked the Starcraft resolution to 640x480 to make everyone see exactly the same amount of stuff on screen. With SC2 they could not do that, because that would not be realistic with the hardware nowadays. They had to prepare for people having different aspect ratios and different screen sizes and resolutions. They had to put in options for changing the graphics for people with different graphics cards with different performance (this is about the cloaked units cheat settings argument).
But still, they do not allow you to zoom out and everyone sees roughly the same 3D scenery of the battlefield. The UI is probably completely scripted, but they do not allow you to change anything, move parts of it around, and do something like hide everything except the minimap and put that in a better position for you. With WoW they allow that, so that leads me to believe they would not like the players customizing that for SC2.
Myself, I was a QuakeWorld player in the past, where you could customize everything about the graphics and even had the possibility to use different clients, because id Software had released the source code for the game. I actually would like to see how playing SC2 would feel with the camera angle changed to a more top-down view, no perspective to make 3D objects at the side of the screen look the same as in the center, and all unit and building models replaced with some abstract modern art sculptures as if the game would be some kind of board game, and the graphics of the map replaced with single-colored surfaces. [While I am thinking of this, this would also be interesting for the parents with small kids from the "casting language" thread, to make the game itself non-violent, not only fixing the "bad" language.]
I was also once at a QuakeCon, playing in the Return to Castle Wolfenstein tournament, and the rules disallowed low graphics settings with plain textures instead of busy graphics and different lighting on the map, so that you could not make enemy players better visible.
These are two completely different stances on how graphics and game-play interact with each other. It feels weird to me, coming to the conclusion that Blizzard's game designers would find it okay that the players do extensive rearranging of the UI or tweaking graphics like in the WoW or QuakeWorld situations.
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I don't see what the big deal is honestly. if you want to play like that, it's your call. People already have advantages over others with larger screens or very precise gaming mice and keyboards. Or the fact that not everyone can run the game smoothly on higher graphics.
Ulimately, I don't think there would be huge benefits to these things, so I don't think it's "unfair". I play on a regular laptop with a pretty bad mouse but I don't think it affects me much. I even met someone who plays without a mouse, and uses the pad on his mac instead.
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On May 28 2011 01:49 HomicidaL wrote:
alot of you guys are mentioning lan tournments but its 2011 and alot of big stakes tourneys are done over the internet, so this could easily start getting taken advantage of.
This.
How would you feel if 1000$ was on the line. Maybe a TSL? Would you be ok knowing your opponent had this HUGE minimap at his disposal?
Yes...good players are very minimap aware. But that is a skill they have developped. With this, you barely even need to glance at the minimap at all. Just having it in your peripheral vision is enough to know when and where the next drop is coming. And yes, a minimap expanded to something like a 23 inch screen angled to your side...you're not going to miss anything.
Not to mention there will probably be some ladder jerk with 3 monitors now, 1 ghosting, and other monitor with magnified minimap and ressource numbers... -_-
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You won't be allowed to do it in an offline setting so relying on it seems counterproductive in the long run for your own skill at seeing the normal sized minimap.
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This post gave me an idea, What do you guys think about this implementation ? since you are only re displaying whats there to another location without magnifying anything.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/oqo6D.jpg)
Is this approach unfair advantage or user convenience?
Personally I think blizzard should allow us to modify the UI similar to the hotkeys, making our own HP bars and positioning the components in more convenient places.
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You can take this a step further and start developing mini-map analysis software. Red dot appears on the minimap, *calculates speed*, female voice:
"Alert! Enemy dropship/mutalisk/zergling detected 5 o'clock."
"your minerals are above 1000"
"Alert! your concussive shell upgrade failed, not enough resources."
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On May 28 2011 02:16 aka_star wrote:This post gave me an idea, What do you guys think about this implementation ? since you are only re displaying whats there to another location without magnifying anything. Is this approach unfair advantage or user convenience? Personally I think blizzard should allow us to modify the UI similar to the hotkeys, making our own HP bars and positioning the components in more convenient places.
no!
Jeeze just play the game as Blizzard intended.
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On May 28 2011 02:16 aka_star wrote:+ Show Spoiler +This post gave me an idea, What do you guys think about this implementation ? since you are only re displaying whats there to another location without magnifying anything. Is this approach unfair advantage or user convenience? Personally I think blizzard should allow us to modify the UI similar to the hotkeys, making our own HP bars and positioning the components in more convenient places.
With the original non-modified UI, you need 2 eye motions to check the minimap and your ressource tab. With this, everything is centralized and you need 1 eye motion. So yeah...it is an unfair advantage. While you are checking your resource, you might spot a drop that you may not have seen had your eyes been at the top right of your screen checking gas count.
And although you are trying to keep things fair, there is nothing preventing a person from expanding this image to 2x its size, as well as using this tool to expand their minimap to 2x the size and keep it on the same screen even...like an overlay.
And to respond to people talking about hardware advantage. You cant just say oh increase ur monitor size...same thing, because there is a drawback. The bigger your screen, the more your eyes have to move...your field of vision does not increase. As for keyboards, everyone has their own preference, you can not say one keyboard definately increases your play rather than the other one...because for another person, he may find the other keyboard more suitable. In this case...you can have a bigger minimap...with no drawbacks.
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You guys must be joking... as if one "eye motion" (wtf) more would mean any difference. With this argument the large minimap on 2nd monitor would take one massive "eye motion" away from the main screen, which in your flawed logic should be a huge drawback.
What if i just have one (or maybe even two) persons sitting right next to me, watching the mini map and minerals all the time and tell me if something is going on. No one would ever know.
Is this cheating? No.
Does that make me a better gamer? No. At least not in the moment, in the long run maybe, because i might learn to remember doing these things myself.
Is it "unfair"? Well who cares. This dude is just trying to arrange all the information the game offers in an optimal way.
It does not provide any additional (and thus non-legit) information about the game.
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Haha! I cannot believe there is actually people caring about stuff like this. Yeah, sure it can be helpful at some point. WHO GIVES A CRAP? It's fucking 4v4 laddering, it's no serious competition at all, it's just playing a computer game having fun with a couple of friends. It's not like anyone is going to win a bunch of money using dual monitors on a LAN anytime soon.
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The problem is more where you draw the line than anything else
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On May 28 2011 02:09 Ropid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2011 01:02 TheAuditor wrote:On May 27 2011 23:53 sereniity wrote:On May 27 2011 23:23 TheAuditor wrote:
How is this not fair? How is using your resources available to get every advantage unfair?
Is it unfair that I have a superior mechanical keyboard and a better mouse than people I ladder against? No it's not. They have the same capacity as I (as a player of the game) to go buy the superior product to help improve their game. This is the exact same reasons.
Is it unfair that I can change my in game settings to help me view cloaked units better, while someone else must play on low in ordre to play? No it isn't, because they can go buy a better computer in order to do the same thing.
This is exactly the same reasoning and thought process. It is FAIR because I am the one playing the game against my opponent. This may help play the game, but it doesn't play the game for me. Its the same reasoning and logic of a new mouse/keyboard. They help improve playing the game but they don't play the game for you. You still have to go out and play the game in order to get results.
Now, is it unethical? Who dictates ethics, the community or the TOS/game itself? Is this cheating? No it is using resources available to the user. I don't view that as unethical at all.
You can't use this at LAN tournaments? What about ones where you BYOC and there is no limit on monitors/space. If the tournament doesn't explicitly say you can not have more than one monitor, then you are welcome to bring two and use this program.
Is it unethical in the community sense? That's for the community to decide. One isn't required to say GG after every game, and they don't have to say GL HF GG, etc in the beginning of the game. It is in their best interest to, because when invites go out for tournaments, they are more likely to choose players without a bad rep. EX: CombatEx. Why doesn't he get invited to any lower tier tournaments? Probably his reputation, however he plays the game according to the rules setforth by Blizzard and Battle.net and he has success with them. The thing is, there's no option to increase the minimap size, blizz intended it to be the size it is, and they don't want it changed. Anyone can go buy a new keyboard or mouse, that's something outside of the game, however everybody doesn't have the knowledge of how to do this minimap trick, nor is it allowed since blizzard does NOT want you to increase the size of the minimap, if they would want you to do so then they'd make an in-game option for it. Basically, buying a mouse or a keyboard is your own choice, it's gaming GEAR, it doesn't affect any in-game options. Getting another monitor, linking it to your computer and setting up an important part of the game ON THAT OTHER MONITOR and then increasnig the SIZE of it (when it is clearly intended to not be increased) is, and should be against the rules. Besides that, this will only make you play worse if you're at a LAN with some friends or a netcafé, just seems stupid. Personally I wouldn't mind if I played versus someone with this but I guess it's ALOT easier to spot drops with this wich is kind of unfair. You just completely contradicted what you are trying to say. A monitor is part of your gaming gear. Is he changing anything inside the game? Is he injecting code in the game? Is he pulling information from the game and having a program analyze it and have it suggest/tell him what to do? No he's not doing anything near to that. What he is doing is displaying an image on the other screen. Is it unfair, in WoW arenas to put your UI on one screen and your character on another? No, it is not. Is it in the TOS that we all signed, that we cannot use two monitors for Starcraft 2? I don't believe it is. Whether Blizzard intended one monitor or two monitors is up to them. IF they decide they only want the game playable on one monitor, they will update the TOS and we will all have to sign it again. Just because it should be against the rules doesn't mean it is. Just because someone doesn't have the knowledge on how to do this, doesn't make it unfair or against the rules. There are Sc2 players out there that do not know that a keyboard can increase your playing ability. In your mind frame and your sense of judgement, it is unfair that all of us are using a superior keyboard to the person with the crappiest keyboard in the game. If Blizzard intended the minimap to be the same size for everyone, the game would have a locked resolution. We wouldn't be able to play at a higher resolution and we would all have to have the same monitor in order to play. THat is not the case. Blizzard scaled the UI to adjust to certain resolutions more easily and optimized. Just because the feature isn't in the options menu doesn't mean it's against the TOS. What about people (high level players, I believe MorroW and TLO have done this) who edit the game code in order to display cloaked units? Is that against the TOS? I don't believe so, and if it is, Blizzard will eventually ban players for doing it, or warn them or whatever. If a college athlete has enough money to hire a personal assistant, outside of his team, and his assistant trains him and prepares him to play college sports, is it illegal/breaking the rules? No it is not because he personally did that out of his own pocket. If the NCAA thinks it is wrong, then they'll write a rule stating that you can't do that. I believe you are coming to the wrong conclusion about what the game designers' stance on the matter would be. Keep in mind that Blizzard had locked the Starcraft resolution to 640x480 to make everyone see exactly the same amount of stuff on screen. With SC2 they could not do that, because that would not be realistic with the hardware nowadays. They had to prepare for people having different aspect ratios and different screen sizes and resolutions. They had to put in options for changing the graphics for people with different graphics cards with different performance (this is about the cloaked units cheat settings argument). But still, they do not allow you to zoom out and everyone sees roughly the same 3D scenery of the battlefield. The UI is probably completely scripted, but they do not allow you to change anything, move parts of it around, and do something like hide everything except the minimap and put that in a better position for you. With WoW they allow that, so that leads me to believe they would not like the players customizing that for SC2. Myself, I was a QuakeWorld player in the past, where you could customize everything about the graphics and even had the possibility to use different clients, because id Software had released the source code for the game. I actually would like to see how playing SC2 would feel with the camera angle changed to a more top-down view, no perspective to make 3D objects at the side of the screen look the same as in the center, and all unit and building models replaced with some abstract modern art sculptures as if the game would be some kind of board game, and the graphics of the map replaced with single-colored surfaces. [While I am thinking of this, this would also be interesting for the parents with small kids from the "casting language" thread, to make the game itself non-violent, not only fixing the "bad" language.] I was also once at a QuakeCon, playing in the Return to Castle Wolfenstein tournament, and the rules disallowed low graphics settings with plain textures instead of busy graphics and different lighting on the map, so that you could not make enemy players better visible. These are two completely different stances on how graphics and game-play interact with each other. It feels weird to me, coming to the conclusion that Blizzard's game designers would find it okay that the players do extensive rearranging of the UI or tweaking graphics like in the WoW or QuakeWorld situations.
There is a reason why games since then have enforced graphics consistency. Also, they didn't modify quake to make it look more "plain", they did it to increase contrast. I've seen a guy at lan that had levels all white and players neon pink. In HL1, you could replace all default models with a neon green guy with a giant balloon over his head (so it clips through walls).
I'd rather people just stick to what Blizzard provided, for the sake of competitive consistency. For the most part anyway, nothing to stop someone using magnifying glasses or larva timing scripts. There is already a script out there that reads the queen energy and auto-injects. It would be undetectable if the script just played a reminder sound and you did it yourself instead of being a complete idiot and automating it for easy bannage.
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On May 28 2011 02:51 reapsen wrote:
You guys must be joking... as if one "eye motion" (wtf) more would mean any difference. With this argument the large minimap on 2nd monitor would take one massive "eye motion" away from the main screen, which in your flawed logic should be a huge drawback.
What if i just have one (or maybe even two) persons sitting right next to me, watching the mini map and minerals all the time and tell me if something is going on. No one would ever know.
Is this cheating? No.
Does that make me a better gamer? No. At least not in the moment, in the long run maybe, because i might learn to remember doing these things myself.
Is it "unfair"? Well who cares. This dude is just trying to arrange all the information the game offers in an optimal way.
It does not provide any additional (and thus non-legit) information about the game.
Hey, if you don't care about this, then you wont mind if I place your mineral count to the left center.....and your gas to the right center on a 24 inch screen. Hey don't worry its only an eye motion?
I have already discussed this in my previous post why centralized information is an advantage. I watch my mineral count..I might miss that drop coming. You look at your mineral count...oh hey you saw my drop coming.
With a 2nd monitor only displaying the minimap, you wouldn't even need to move your eyes to catch a drop. It is directly in the peripheral vision as a HUGE red blob. Secondly, with this magnifying tool it has just been shown that you can have it directly in your main screen, therefore you can rearrange and magnify as you wish.
Do you want everyone to be doing this at tournaments? multiple magnifying tools everywhere on the screen to rearrange the whole UI...are you kidding me?
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Well, if blizzard had their head screwed on straight, they would let us adjust the UI like this for personal comfort. As it stands, I think you're a pioneer and a scholar.
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O wicked, i'm totally gonna use this
thx
I have my second monitor to the right of my playing screen.. I'm repositioning my new "megamap" next to my mineral/gas/supply counter
edit:
is there a way to make my mineral/gas/supply count get reposted above the regular minimap as well? displayed as always on top or something? but same size?
re-edit:
im idiot... just read post on last page
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I don't think it's illegal unless it's some sort of .dll injection.. but then again, technically speaking.. it is a '3rd party program' which is against Blizzard's TOS.
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On May 28 2011 03:08 Odien wrote:
I don't think it's illegal unless it's some sort of .dll injection.. but then again, technically speaking.. it is a '3rd party program' which is against Blizzard's TOS.
Blizzard has and will ban you even if you use macros on a keyboard endorsed by Blizzard themselves.
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You're using 3rd party software.
Starcraft 2 does not have this option in the game currently.
Therefore, it should obviously be unethical, unfair, and bannable.
Period.
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On May 28 2011 03:32 Fyrewolf wrote:
You're using 3rd party software.
Starcraft 2 does not have this option in the game currently.
Therefore, it should obviously be unethical, unfair, and bannable.
Period.
Isn't it third party software to say.. overlay the score in a tournament series?
Fits the same criterea everyone has listed as far as modification goes
So does that giant thread about changing the colors prominance of units in the game.
Its not like this is giving any new informaiton, it is just displaying it differently and this is an option that SHOULD be in the game anyways
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Op, you are my hero for making SC2 posters mad over something so simple and stupid. Rock on brosef. I would recommend that you tell your opponents what you've done before every game to milk this fun for all its worth
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On May 28 2011 03:06 Bambipwnsu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2011 02:51 reapsen wrote:
You guys must be joking... as if one "eye motion" (wtf) more would mean any difference. With this argument the large minimap on 2nd monitor would take one massive "eye motion" away from the main screen, which in your flawed logic should be a huge drawback.
What if i just have one (or maybe even two) persons sitting right next to me, watching the mini map and minerals all the time and tell me if something is going on. No one would ever know.
Is this cheating? No.
Does that make me a better gamer? No. At least not in the moment, in the long run maybe, because i might learn to remember doing these things myself.
Is it "unfair"? Well who cares. This dude is just trying to arrange all the information the game offers in an optimal way.
It does not provide any additional (and thus non-legit) information about the game. Hey, if you don't care about this, then you wont mind if I place your mineral count to the left center.....and your gas to the right center on a 24 inch screen. Hey don't worry its only an eye motion? I have already discussed this in my previous post why centralized information is an advantage. I watch my mineral count..I might miss that drop coming. You look at your mineral count...oh hey you saw my drop coming. With a 2nd monitor only displaying the minimap, you wouldn't even need to move your eyes to catch a drop. It is directly in the peripheral vision as a HUGE red blob. Secondly, with this magnifying tool it has just been shown that you can have it directly in your main screen, therefore you can rearrange and magnify as you wish. Do you want everyone to be doing this at tournaments? multiple magnifying tools everywhere on the screen to rearrange the whole UI...are you kidding me?
I don't get what you define as "peripheral vision". The minimap and mineral values, which are on my main screen are not in my peripheral vision, but a zoomed minimap on a second screen is? Okay?! Its like saying picking the color brown would be unfair, because its harder to see on the minimap (given that you don't have the color override enabled).
Basically it all comes down to your ability to multitask between different sources of information. I can only come back to the example with the two persons sitting right next to me, where one constantly looks at the minimap and the other at the minerals.
One might argue that i´ll never miss a drop this way. But is it really advantageous to have two guys constantly talk to you? I'd say no. If my multitasking is bad or my mechanics are bad, some drops still might do terrible damage and i lose games. Same thing with that zoomed minimap thingy.
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On May 27 2011 22:28 Ichabod wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 22:16 Griffith` wrote:On May 27 2011 22:13 monkh wrote:
you couldn't do it on a LAN tournament so no point really. I rebind my capslock to control (in both linux and windows) for all apps because it is 100x more ergonmic and lowers the risk of carpal tunnel. Does your argument also make this illegal? Keybinds for SC2 are saved on Bnet. Are you sure LANs force you to use stock keybinds otherwise?
You can't rebind modifier keys in the game.
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That's a pretty clever idea. I'd never use it, but I wouldn't care if someone I was playing did use it. How much does it actually help, though? I personally don't think it's worth taking your eyes off the main screen to view it.
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If you have problems with your eyes like being somewhat blind then I'm totally for it.
Not everyone is blessed with great eye sight and if you have terrible eye sight, go right ahead.
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On May 27 2011 22:16 Griffith` wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 22:13 monkh wrote:
you couldn't do it on a LAN tournament so no point really. I rebind my capslock to control (in both linux and windows) for all apps because it is 100x more ergonmic and lowers the risk of carpal tunnel. Does your argument also make this illegal?
You can still rebind your capslock to control ingame, so it is still ok to do it.
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It would be cool if you could have 2 screens so you could have one on one battle and one on a harass with mutas at a mineral line or something like that for example.
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Too many haters in this thread. He's at home on his two monitors, he can do whatever he wants. Who cares?
That's actually a really cool use of the second monitor. It never would have crossed my mind to do something like that. It doesn't really make a big difference (you should be minimap-aware anyways), but if it helps him, then great. It's the same argument as having a timer go off every 40 seconds to inject larva and stuff. If you go to a lan, don't do it. If you're sitting at home, do what you want.
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Unfair disadvantage.
Not that it's necessarily even a benefit though.
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On May 28 2011 03:44 Roxy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2011 03:32 Fyrewolf wrote:
You're using 3rd party software.
Starcraft 2 does not have this option in the game currently.
Therefore, it should obviously be unethical, unfair, and bannable.
Period. Isn't it third party software to say.. overlay the score in a tournament series? Fits the same criterea everyone has listed as far as modification goes So does that giant thread about changing the colors prominance of units in the game. Its not like this is giving any new informaiton, it is just displaying it differently and this is an option that SHOULD be in the game anyways
The score overlay isn't for the players playing in the game. It's the viewers that see that, and they aren't the ones playing. Viewers also get to see through fog of war.
Saying a feature should be in the game is meaningless. It simply isn't in the game. Unless it gets put into the game in the future, you'll just have to deal with what you have.
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If you're having trouble seeing the minimap, that seem fair enough to use as sort of "training wheels". It's no worse than having someone else sitting beside you watching the minimap and your idle probes and stuff.
It's fine for casual ladder play imo.
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How the hell is zooming in bannable?
Should we users from adjusting brightness on their monitors?
Having two monitors period?
Putting a piece of paper on their screen?
Playing music in the background?
The only thing this changes is how the game is displaying on his monitors, which is insane to think is wrong.
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Why is this thread still going?
1. It's not banable. There isn't even a way to fucking detect this.
2. It wouldn't be allowed at a LAN
3. Do it if you want, don't expect it to matter.
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On May 28 2011 04:03 reapsen wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 28 2011 03:06 Bambipwnsu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2011 02:51 reapsen wrote:
You guys must be joking... as if one "eye motion" (wtf) more would mean any difference. With this argument the large minimap on 2nd monitor would take one massive "eye motion" away from the main screen, which in your flawed logic should be a huge drawback.
What if i just have one (or maybe even two) persons sitting right next to me, watching the mini map and minerals all the time and tell me if something is going on. No one would ever know.
Is this cheating? No.
Does that make me a better gamer? No. At least not in the moment, in the long run maybe, because i might learn to remember doing these things myself.
Is it "unfair"? Well who cares. This dude is just trying to arrange all the information the game offers in an optimal way.
It does not provide any additional (and thus non-legit) information about the game. Hey, if you don't care about this, then you wont mind if I place your mineral count to the left center.....and your gas to the right center on a 24 inch screen. Hey don't worry its only an eye motion? I have already discussed this in my previous post why centralized information is an advantage. I watch my mineral count..I might miss that drop coming. You look at your mineral count...oh hey you saw my drop coming. With a 2nd monitor only displaying the minimap, you wouldn't even need to move your eyes to catch a drop. It is directly in the peripheral vision as a HUGE red blob. Secondly, with this magnifying tool it has just been shown that you can have it directly in your main screen, therefore you can rearrange and magnify as you wish. Do you want everyone to be doing this at tournaments? multiple magnifying tools everywhere on the screen to rearrange the whole UI...are you kidding me? I don't get what you define as "peripheral vision". The minimap and mineral values, which are on my main screen are not in my peripheral vision, but a zoomed minimap on a second screen is? Okay?! Its like saying picking the color brown would be unfair, because its harder to see on the minimap (given that you don't have the color override enabled). Basically it all comes down to your ability to multitask between different sources of information. I can only come back to the example with the two persons sitting right next to me, where one constantly looks at the minimap and the other at the minerals. One might argue that i´ll never miss a drop this way. But is it really advantageous to have two guys constantly talk to you? I'd say no. If my multitasking is bad or my mechanics are bad, some drops still might do terrible damage and i lose games. Same thing with that zoomed minimap thingy.
There is a difference between having a fly in your peripheral vision and having a huge red balloon. Which are you likely to react to? Do you think its fair if you were playing a shooter game and i just made your character 10x more large. Easy to spot much?
You agree with me in saying that hey, you might not miss a drop this way. Then, you go on to say oh its not an advantage by comparing it to something completely different. First off how can you even compare these two things. Im comparing measurable visuals and you talk about having people give you audio feedback? Can u imagine someone reading out to you "two thousand, three hundred and twenty five minerals and five thousand one hundred seventy six gas", even if you repeated this without wasting a single breath would it be as efficient as reading numbers. So of course its not advantageous to have someone constantly talk to you.
And, noone complains about map colors because everyone can change their minimap colors. It is hardcoded into the game.
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Games should be played on equal terms so yeah it´s unethical to use it. Honestly though I don´t see the use of it, I prefer using the ingame minimap.
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Seems you've been spending too much time looking at your new minimap, considering you have 10k minerals and 3k gas at 90 supply ^.^
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Is it fair? If you have to ask, it's probably not fair.
Does it improve your gameplay? I don't think so. It only brings the minimap further away from the other important parts of the screen.
What I would want to do in regards to improving the UI, is bring the mineral/gas/supply count down to where the minimap is.
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Arguments against this are a joke and futile.
Regardless of you thinking it's "ethical" or not, "fair" or not, etc. The magnifier isn't modifyng any part of the game. As been said countless times, it's only giving you an easier way to see information already given to you. Therefore, there is just no way to blizzard detecting you using this (not that they would ban you even knowing you were using it).
Regardless of what you said, anyone playing online tournaments could be using this (including "gamebreaking" repositioning of resources). Going completely undetected and you'd still cheer for them the same way.
It's like complaining someone has better vision than me and therefore having better vision of both the minimap and actual playing window. Joke of a complain.
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It is fair and ethical. Suppose Player A plays on a 64 inch screen and Player B is on a 14 inch screen. Is that fair since A's minimap is many times the size of B's? In the same way, magnifying the minimap doesn't give an unfair advantage.
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There is no way any LAN event will let you use this set up, let alone any of the major tournaments. It is pretty clear from your screenshot that it isn't putting your play at unfair levels though. (nice resource count )
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EPT
