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GSL Needs More Foreign Players - PlayXP article

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Durp
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada3117 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-17 18:21:18
May 17 2011 18:01 GMT
#1
The following is a translation of an article posted on PlayXP, source article can be found here. Credit to Rnjswodus for the translation.

"GSL needs more foreign players.


On May 13th Gretech (Gom) announced that they will be implementing player exchange program with the MLG. Players who perform well in the MLG will be seeded in the GSL and Korean GSL players will be granted with seeds for MLG.

This announcement is welcomed as the GSL is a take a great leap towards being truly global.

MLG launched in 2002 based on console games, have become the biggest pro-e-sports league in the North America. In last 2-3 years, Cyberathlete Professional League (CPL), Championship Gaming Series (CGS), and Electronic Sports World Cup (ESWC) have folded due to sponsorship/financial difficulties. However, MLG stood strong and recently have expanded by adding PC games. Without any doubt, MLG has surpassed CPL and became the best e-sports league in the North America.

Announcement of this exchange program has covered the headlines of many foreign e-sports communities and media, and some predict that this is indeed the biggest splash of 2011. All eyes are focused on this new exciting program, and such attention reassures the reputation of the GSL among SC2 fans.

Personally the reason why I am very excited about this program is because we get to watch more foreigners compete. Due to lack of foreign players, GSL was not truly “global” (translator: Many Koreans make fun of GSL time to time and suggest that the name should be KSL). After the recent Up/Down Matches, as LiquidJinro moved down to Code A, the only foreigner in Code S is LiquidHuk. Few months ago EGIdra left Korea and very recently LiquidHaypro left as well.

It is the player’s fault for not performing however; in order for GSL to become the best league in SC2 community we need more non-Korean players to compete. E-sports league around the world are selecting SC2, a game that was released just less than year ago, as one of their main events. This is just the beginning.

I have no intention to criticize BW, but in last couple years, WC3 has over shadowed Korean E-sports scene. Koreans were very proud to be the power house in e-sports but there is no doubt that eyes of the foreign fans were on Europe and China where WC3 was a huge hit. It is our chance to reclaim those fans through the GSL, and once again become the undisputed powerhouse of E-sports. That is why need more foreign players to compete in the GSL. If the GSL provides Code A & Code S seeds based on a players performance in other international leagues, more foreign players will be more interested in competing.

Of course there will be fewer spots for the Korean players but in order for GSL to evolve it is a small sacrifice that needs to take place. It may seem unfair for players who have qualified through Preliminary matches, but the fact that GSL takes place in Korea, there is a huge “home advantage” for the Korean players and I think that provides fair opportunity for both Korean and foreign players. We can also expand Code A in order to solve this problem.

On the other hand, Korean players will be able to play in more international tournaments. Since each leagues/tournaments have very different and unique rules and schedules, Korean players can participate in the tournaments that fit their schedule. Furthermore, teams can select players they see fit in certain tournaments/leagues in order to provide equal chance among team members.

Timing of this announcement was also great since GomTV had plans to change the format of GSL in the second half of the year. They were planning to increase the amount of time spent on GSTL and to encourage more foreign players to come and compete. There have been no announcements as of yet about any fundamental changes but now is the perfect time to discuss about providing seeds for foreign players or expanding Code A.

Many Korean fans say that GSL has failed compared to OSL or MSL. However, it does not mean that there is no foreign support. Recently right after GSL May Code S Semi-finals, NesTea was one of the trend topics on Twitter. To be a trend topic in Twitter which is used by more than 200 Million people is very difficult. Considering the time zone difference in North America and Europe, it is fascinating to witness enthusiastic support of foreign fans.

The point is, GSL is followed by all SC2 fans around the world and now is the time for GSL to reach the next level. In order for GSL to prosper, we need support of Blizzard, GomTV and more importantly the support of the fans now more than ever."

EDIT; the author of the article can be found on twitter @ssidaglez
feel free to tweet him to show our support!
SOOOOOooooOOOOooooOOOOoo Many BANELINGS!!
StutteR
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States1903 Posts
May 17 2011 18:04 GMT
#2
Most excited to hear that the format of GSL is changing and that we'll have more GSTL!
`~` | effOrt Movie sKyHigh forever & SEn
Durp
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada3117 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-17 18:05:46
May 17 2011 18:05 GMT
#3
edit; whoops quoted instead of edited T_T
SOOOOOooooOOOOooooOOOOoo Many BANELINGS!!
Antoine
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States7481 Posts
May 17 2011 18:10 GMT
#4
On May 18 2011 03:04 StutteR wrote:
Most excited to hear that the format of GSL is changing and that we'll have more GSTL!

the big gstl announcement is scheduled to come out not tomorrow but the day after

anyway thanks for the translation, glad to see that people everywhere are in favor of more integration of the scenes

btw the author of the article is on twitter at @ssidaglez , i'm not sure how good his english is but i'm sure he would appreciate people tweeting him about the article.
ModeratorFlash Sea Action Snow Midas | TheStC Ret Tyler MC | RIP 우정호
legatus legionis
Profile Joined October 2010
Netherlands559 Posts
May 17 2011 18:34 GMT
#5
Hmm pretty interesting to read. So it's true they like foreigners in the tournament, but we'll have to see what happens to the system. I also liked where he explained diversifying a team. Putting players on certain foreign leagues for example. What is left is pretty much what wil happen with the GSTL. I guess it's going to take on a much more prominent role and will also allow for some foreigner integration? We'll have to see, but it will probably be really cool.

What I don't understand is the comments. I tried to read them with the chrome translator and it becomes really broken. But from what I could make out, there were a lot of comments about the foreign casters, doa and moletrap and a relay switch? I don't understand this maybe someone can explain. Do the koreans have access to this? Are they watching the english commentary? And what are they saying about it? And what does that have to do with anything?
I found that incredibly intriguing because there is no way for me to be able to put myself in the perspective of a Korean spectator. When thinking about global interaction that is really valuable to have a grip on.
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
May 17 2011 18:41 GMT
#6
I dunno. I tend to agree with the SOTG hosts. Code A just isnt worth it. Opportunities are great, but the trade off between the month long Code A for a SHOT at MAYBE becoming Code S isnt worth the opportunity cost.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
Durp
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada3117 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-17 18:46:34
May 17 2011 18:45 GMT
#7
On May 18 2011 03:34 legatus legionis wrote:
What I don't understand is the comments. I tried to read them with the chrome translator and it becomes really broken. But from what I could make out, there were a lot of comments about the foreign casters, doa and moletrap and a relay switch? I don't understand this maybe someone can explain. Do the koreans have access to this? Are they watching the english commentary? And what are they saying about it? And what does that have to do with anything?
I found that incredibly intriguing because there is no way for me to be able to put myself in the perspective of a Korean spectator. When thinking about global interaction that is really valuable to have a grip on.

- Many koreans living abroad that follow the SC2 scene watch the english stream, or at least that is true here in Toronto
- The comments on PlayXP from Korean spectators about Doa/Moletrap seem fairly similar to the comments from the foreign ones; some love them, some hate them, the nay-sayers argue that they aren't as good as Tastosis, the pro-trolls argue that they're better than Kelly. (in other words, more silly arguments attempting to validate one's personal feelings)
- Other comments mentioned that they believe the Doa/Moletrap combo are still suffering from some stage fright (as they're taking over for Tastosis) and will come around soon
SOOOOOooooOOOOooooOOOOoo Many BANELINGS!!
s.a.y
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Croatia3840 Posts
May 17 2011 18:47 GMT
#8
It's not worth it to compete in GSL for foreigners anymore.

MLG, NASL, TSL, team games (EG Masters Cup comes into mind), every day quick cups for cash > GSL.

Plus, in the MLG-GSL deal players get into Code A (1500 USD tourney) not S, just not worth it.

Idra and Incontrol give out pretty good arguments in the last SOTG.
I am not good with quotes
shell
Profile Joined October 2010
Portugal2722 Posts
May 17 2011 18:47 GMT
#9
It's nice to know a Korean fan also wants to see foreigners. I love GSL and respect and admire the Koreans but every time a foreigner plays in Korea I get twice the excitement because I want to see the underdog make it. The world tournament was also very fun and competitive.

I get why idra doesn't want to go back but I also feel any pro foreigner would benefit from one month practising in Korea and competing against them, heck I would even go for the experience of living there.

This is a good program and no offence to MLG but I feel they get the best deal out of this because GSL is tougher and much more prestigious then them.

Starcraft 2 will be about Korea, EU&NA and China and I hope the event organizers keep talking and working with each other, it's much better then working against each other.

China will probably be bigger then Korea and EU&NA imo
BENFICA || Besties: idra, Stephano, Nestea, Jaedong, Serral, Jinro, Scarlett || Zerg <3
dc302
Profile Joined December 2010
Australia576 Posts
May 17 2011 18:49 GMT
#10
Personally I don't really mind not seeing foreigners in the GSL...but that's probably just me.
...
Antoine
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States7481 Posts
May 17 2011 18:51 GMT
#11
On May 18 2011 03:47 s.a.y wrote:
It's not worth it to compete in GSL for foreigners anymore.

MLG, NASL, TSL, team games (EG Masters Cup comes into mind), every day quick cups for cash > GSL.

Plus, in the MLG-GSL deal players get into Code A (1500 USD tourney) not S, just not worth it.

Idra and Incontrol give out pretty good arguments in the last SOTG.

well, after this first event the 1st place mlg will go straight into code S
ModeratorFlash Sea Action Snow Midas | TheStC Ret Tyler MC | RIP 우정호
ViperaViRuS
Profile Joined May 2011
United States82 Posts
May 17 2011 18:53 GMT
#12
Out of curiosity, how many seeded players would be exchanged, and how long would these exchanges last for? Additionally, how would seeding affect whether they were competing in the Code A or Code S matches?

Additionally, as some have already stated, the competitions outside of Korea makes it ideal for a non-Korean to not even bother with the GSL, therefore I'm assuming the players will have the right to decline being exchanged over to Korea, therefore what will they do if a large number of players decline?

It's an interesting concept, but I potentially see it falling flat on its face if certain aspects aren't really addressed. Best of luck to the exchange program as well as players who do end up getting exchanged.
"CHILL GET OUT" -NaNiwa
seaofsaturn
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States489 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-17 18:54:05
May 17 2011 18:53 GMT
#13
It's pretty simple. As the prizes go up in the western scene, the prizes need to go up in GSL as well. The prize pool has barely changed since GSL1, with the main change being it is harder to get to the top tier winnings.
Photoshop is over-powered.
thirnaz
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden876 Posts
May 17 2011 18:54 GMT
#14
On May 18 2011 03:51 Antoine wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2011 03:47 s.a.y wrote:
It's not worth it to compete in GSL for foreigners anymore.

MLG, NASL, TSL, team games (EG Masters Cup comes into mind), every day quick cups for cash > GSL.

Plus, in the MLG-GSL deal players get into Code A (1500 USD tourney) not S, just not worth it.

Idra and Incontrol give out pretty good arguments in the last SOTG.

well, after this first event the 1st place mlg will go straight into code S

Do you have proof of this? Cuz if thats true then i guess most foreigners would accept the deal, didnt even Tyler say he might go if he got Code S?
SlayerS_MMA and TL #1
Synche
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1345 Posts
May 17 2011 18:54 GMT
#15
On May 18 2011 03:47 shell wrote:
It's nice to know a Korean fan also wants to see foreigners. I love GSL and respect and admire the Koreans but every time a foreigner plays in Korea I get twice the excitement because I want to see the underdog make it. The world tournament was also very fun and competitive.

I get why idra doesn't want to go back but I also feel any pro foreigner would benefit from one month practising in Korea and competing against them, heck I would even go for the experience of living there.

This is a good program and no offence to MLG but I feel they get the best deal out of this because GSL is tougher and much more prestigious then them.

Starcraft 2 will be about Korea, EU&NA and China and I hope the event organizers keep talking and working with each other, it's much better then working against each other.

China will probably be bigger then Korea and EU&NA imo


Maybe if you live in a team house like Liquid but in the foreigner house? I mean you'd just be laddering unless you had some other top pros with you (like if all 4 people took the invite from MLG).

I really see NA becoming the mecca for SC2 in the future. There's just more money out here these days. GSL might always be the premiere tournament, but as it is there's "easy" money to be made in NA. I think the more and more the Koreans come over to NA the better the foreigners are going to have to get to stay competitive (if they aren't already, I think there's a good case we're sort of equal).
Duravi
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1205 Posts
May 17 2011 18:54 GMT
#16
I think the biggest problem is the length of time each GSL season runs for. If Code A/S was one week, or even two max, more people would be willing to play in it (well Code A would still be debatable since you would have to either come back or stick around until the next season even if you made Code S). Just think, if the super tournament was one week long I'm sure players like Idra and White-Ra would definitely participate in it instead of turning down their invitation. It may be good for the spectators to pace out the event, but it is not so hot for the players and long-term that may have an effect on spectator numbers as well.
Niick
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia426 Posts
May 17 2011 18:55 GMT
#17
On May 18 2011 03:51 Antoine wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2011 03:47 s.a.y wrote:
It's not worth it to compete in GSL for foreigners anymore.

MLG, NASL, TSL, team games (EG Masters Cup comes into mind), every day quick cups for cash > GSL.

Plus, in the MLG-GSL deal players get into Code A (1500 USD tourney) not S, just not worth it.

Idra and Incontrol give out pretty good arguments in the last SOTG.

well, after this first event the 1st place mlg will go straight into code S


This is wonderful, and I'm hoping a lot of players will take up the chance, even just for one month, and for theirselves to experience such a different culture and to live and breath starcraft in its capital
You'll have to speak up, I'm wearing a towel.
xBillehx
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States1289 Posts
May 17 2011 18:55 GMT
#18
On May 18 2011 03:47 s.a.y wrote:
It's not worth it to compete in GSL for foreigners anymore.

MLG, NASL, TSL, team games (EG Masters Cup comes into mind), every day quick cups for cash > GSL.

Plus, in the MLG-GSL deal players get into Code A (1500 USD tourney) not S, just not worth it.

Idra and Incontrol give out pretty good arguments in the last SOTG.

So which of those can foreigners competing in the GSL exchange program not participate in? MLG's won't happen before the month is up, NASL is online (and koreans seem to be doing well regardless of lag), TSL is also online (if there's another one) and EGMC is online along with the small cups. Other than previous obligations, (NASL casting for Incontrol & sometimes IdrA) family, (Tyler) or personal reasons I honestly don't see why people wouldn't go. o_o;
Taengoo ♥
Termit
Profile Joined December 2010
Sweden3466 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-17 18:58:21
May 17 2011 18:56 GMT
#19
I would rather see more koreans here in the west than foreigners in Korea. It's boring for both us fans and the players if they are playing Coded A and get knocked out early and then have nothing to do in a month except playing customs for the next season, and they wont earn any money during this time. While here in the west they could play a tourney every day to earn some money and then attend all the big events here.

I would assume the koreans doesn't have this opportunity, but do they know about this situation here? I'll bet they would be a bit jelly about all the small tourneys with price pool every day. ;P
( ̄。 ̄)~zzz ◕ ◡ ◕
eviltomahawk
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States11135 Posts
May 17 2011 18:57 GMT
#20
On May 18 2011 03:54 thirnaz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2011 03:51 Antoine wrote:
On May 18 2011 03:47 s.a.y wrote:
It's not worth it to compete in GSL for foreigners anymore.

MLG, NASL, TSL, team games (EG Masters Cup comes into mind), every day quick cups for cash > GSL.

Plus, in the MLG-GSL deal players get into Code A (1500 USD tourney) not S, just not worth it.

Idra and Incontrol give out pretty good arguments in the last SOTG.

well, after this first event the 1st place mlg will go straight into code S

Do you have proof of this? Cuz if thats true then i guess most foreigners would accept the deal, didnt even Tyler say he might go if he got Code S?

The entire format was recently announced:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222580

Anyways, I'm eager to hear about the GSL and GSTL changes once they are announced.
ㅇㅅㅌㅅ
Roggay
Profile Joined April 2010
Switzerland6320 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-17 18:58:36
May 17 2011 18:57 GMT
#21
I'm not particularly excited about the whole GSL exchange program as many top foreigners are not even willing to go. Everything has been said in the SoTG, code A is incredibly hard and not rewarding at all. I really think that the korean scene is suffering from a lack of tournaments holder atm.
Mithriel
Profile Joined November 2010
Netherlands2969 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-17 18:58:49
May 17 2011 18:58 GMT
#22
Amazing article, and amazing that the writer acknowledges they could very well use the global support of everyone. Just look how big starcraft 2 is and how much it can still grow.

I myself am looking forward to the new foreigners competing in GSL, SaSe and whoever does well at MLG!!!

I do however hope, that with the announced format changes, code A changes. At the moment staying in code A is just not worth it. Especially not because there are very little to no other tournaments they could compete in (not sure if they have weekly cups and occasional offline events in korea, like europe has for example). I just hope the best of the best of foreigners will go to korea and they won't give up their spot and someone less good eventually takes their spot.
There is no shame in defeat so long as the spirit is unconquered. | Cheering for Maru, Innovation and MMA!
udgnim
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States8024 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-17 19:20:37
May 17 2011 18:58 GMT
#23
biggest thing

They were planning to increase the amount of time spent on GSTL and to encourage more foreign players to come and compete.


YEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

E-Sports is competitive video gaming with a spectator fan base. Do not take the word "Sports" literally.
LambtrOn
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States671 Posts
May 17 2011 19:00 GMT
#24
On May 18 2011 03:49 dc302 wrote:
Personally I don't really mind not seeing foreigners in the GSL...but that's probably just me.

Right there with you. Sure, it'd be awesome to see some foreigner players in the booths, but I'm mainly interested in the quality of the games, and generally, the Koreans provide the best games. The GSL is really the only tournament to watch the Koreans play, whereas there are a plethora of tournaments for foreigners to play in. I think GOM is putting too much weight into getting foreigners playing in GSL when their system just doesn't fit a foreigner's schedule very well.
Irrelevant
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States2364 Posts
May 17 2011 19:02 GMT
#25
I want to see the best players play, I don't give a shit which country they are from as long as they are the most skilled and right now GSL already has the most skilled and I would hate to see someone of higher skill displaced from the GSL just so a foreigner can play without qualifying simple because he is a foreigner.
dubRa
Profile Joined December 2008
2165 Posts
May 17 2011 19:04 GMT
#26
I feel like Blizzard separating the NA, EU, KR ladder and the lag between the servers is really hurting sc2. Just like Geoff said on SOTG, if you go to Korea you are cut off from the rest of the world.
NuKedUFirst
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada3139 Posts
May 17 2011 19:07 GMT
#27
Really well-translated and written, IMO Korea needs more Sc2 leagues outside of GSL, One tournament of Code A is nothing, GJ you went through hell, here's 1000$.
FrostedMiniWeet wrote: I like winning because it validates all the bloody time I waste playing SC2.
leviathan20
Profile Joined April 2010
United Kingdom193 Posts
May 17 2011 19:11 GMT
#28
On May 18 2011 04:02 Irrelevant wrote:
I want to see the best players play, I don't give a shit which country they are from as long as they are the most skilled and right now GSL already has the most skilled and I would hate to see someone of higher skill displaced from the GSL just so a foreigner can play without qualifying simple because he is a foreigner.


I agree but see this from the other direction also - I want to see the best players play against each other. In that mind, who is to say that the current Korean Code A players are better than all the foreigners?

This exchange is giving a chance to the foreign players to enter GSL, which previously was very difficult for them to get into thanks to the financial outlay of getting there plus the qualification process. We might finally get to see the best players play against each other thanks to this exchange.
"We better get that boy a waffle NOW or he gon' DIE!"
Zeroxk
Profile Joined October 2010
Norway1244 Posts
May 17 2011 19:13 GMT
#29
As has been mentioned before there aren't a lot of tournaments outside of GSL in Korea, but what can Gretech do about it? They are one single company, they don't have infinite money or resources.
Duravi
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1205 Posts
May 17 2011 19:15 GMT
#30
As has been mentioned before there aren't a lot of tournaments outside of GSL in Korea, but what can Gretech do about it? They are one single company, they don't have infinite money or resources.


As far as I understand it (and someone correct me if/where I'm wrong because I'm not sure about this at all) Gretech has sole rights to broadcast SC2 in Korea atm, which kills any reasonable chance of other large tournaments in Korea.
aDd3z
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany885 Posts
May 17 2011 19:16 GMT
#31
more GSTL=awesome
thanks for translation!
Cj Entus | Effort | Prime | MarineKing | mouz | HasuObs
AXygnus
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Portugal1008 Posts
May 17 2011 19:19 GMT
#32
Code A just isn't worth it, that's the main problem. Since you need to play in it to get to the top league (get Ro8, if I'm not mistaken?), and the prize pool is so small...
"To create, to recreate. To create, to recreate. Down to the last seed, I stand with a dark stare. Still silent. Still frighteningly silent."
Wolf
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Korea (South)3290 Posts
May 17 2011 19:20 GMT
#33
Anyone ever think of the idea of having regional offline qualifiers for Code A? It would make Koreans annoyed because they would lose spots, but it would give foreigners some incentive to try to qualify since they wouldn't have to travel as far. I don't think it's a good system, but it might be one solution.
Commentatorhttp://twitter.com/proxywolf
TL+ Member
ComaDose
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada10357 Posts
May 17 2011 19:20 GMT
#34
woot esports!!1
woot GSTL!
I'd like to see more foreigners there.
The winner of the MLG is not going to be disappointingly rofl stomped.
Its awesome to vote for the foreign guy in the booth. The quality of games is not going to significantly change.
except of course for consistently improving!
BW pros training sc2 is like kiss making a dub step album.
CapnCDaWg
Profile Joined September 2010
United States179 Posts
May 17 2011 19:26 GMT
#35
Such a good read, I can't wait to see the future of GSL. I do agree with those that think Code A might be the problem though.
Batch
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden692 Posts
May 17 2011 19:31 GMT
#36
On May 18 2011 04:04 dubRa wrote:
I feel like Blizzard separating the NA, EU, KR ladder and the lag between the servers is really hurting sc2. Just like Geoff said on SOTG, if you go to Korea you are cut off from the rest of the world.

Blizzard can't do much to remove or lower the lag. If they let NA, EU and KR players ladder with each other then then some games would be played with low latency while other suffered from lag. The current solution with different ladders for each region at least make the latency consistent.

I agree that GSL need more foreigners. Because of the number of big tournaments running there are a lot of good games being played. In the beginning I followed almost all the games in each tournaments but that is not possible anymore. Nowdays I almost only follow the games where swedes or big names play in. The last GSL I bought the subscription before the tournament started but the only games I watched was the ones played by Huk and Jinro, and the finals. If no foreigners would have played in GSL I don't know if I would have bothered to buy the subscription at all.
Bear4188
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1797 Posts
May 17 2011 19:32 GMT
#37
On May 18 2011 04:13 Zeroxk wrote:
As has been mentioned before there aren't a lot of tournaments outside of GSL in Korea, but what can Gretech do about it? They are one single company, they don't have infinite money or resources.


They hold the rights monopoly that prevents other tournaments from being held. Generally there are only small tournaments held in the short gap between GSL seasons.
"I learned very early the difference between knowing the name of something and knowing something." - R. Feynman
busbarn
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden984 Posts
May 17 2011 19:35 GMT
#38
imagine seeing EG/Liquid/dignitas/mouz in GSTL

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


It's also nice to see koreans appreciate our support for their players :-)
dp
Profile Joined August 2003
United States234 Posts
May 17 2011 19:35 GMT
#39
People keep saying it isn't worth it.. You do realize this is an all expense paid trip for a month right? I would say that is a prize in itself. Koreans have been doing decently well in online tournaments, so this shouldn't completely negate these players from playing in them, only give them a slight disadvantage as the koreans currently have to live with.

If people can't up and leave their real life obligations, I understand that. That is perfectly reasonable. But to say you are financially limited from a one month vacation is just a bs story. You can still coach. You can stream. You can still play in online tournaments. You are on an international stage, so I would assume that is a more attractive sponsorship than the average player can offer.

Honest truth is, I think international players don't feel the confidence to WIN, but only 'compete' in the GSL. I agree, being an average player outside of korean will earn you more. So tell it like it is.
:o
Kammalleri
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada613 Posts
May 17 2011 19:36 GMT
#40
I wouldn't be all that surprised if the players that goes to Korea have success that a pro team will just sign them.

Let's say Kiwikaki wins MLG, gets code decides to move and gets top 16 for exemple, it would be surprising if he was be left on his own trying to survive in Korea. He would be a good pick up for oGs-Liquid or any team, it's not everyday that you can just sign a player that already plays in Code S.

That said it's not because you get seeded in Code S that it will be easy to stay there or even win a round or two in Code A for any foreigner,

There's no reason we shouldn't be excited to see more foreigner in the GSL tho.
Drake
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany6146 Posts
May 17 2011 19:39 GMT
#41
for me the biggest problem is still, ok when they make the 1st slot and gets a code S slot, some players will move for one season to korea, but players like dimaga naniwa white-ra or even hasuobs kas etc just get much more money outside of korea then they could do in korea expect they win code S so i think alot of players when they "wins" the code A slots in MLG will just say "no" to the offer to travel (i cant see idra or tlo go to korea just for one code A after idra even left code S)
Nb.Drake / CoL_Drake / Original Joined TL.net Tuesday, 15th of March 2005
nAgeDitto
Profile Joined April 2011
United States428 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-17 19:56:22
May 17 2011 19:49 GMT
#42
On May 18 2011 04:39 CoR wrote:
for me the biggest problem is still, ok when they make the 1st slot and gets a code S slot, some players will move for one season to korea, but players like dimaga naniwa white-ra or even hasuobs kas etc just get much more money outside of korea then they could do in korea expect they win code S so i think alot of players when they "wins" the code A slots in MLG will just say "no" to the offer to travel (i cant see idra or tlo go to korea just for one code A after idra even left code S)


This is the exact problem tbh.

IF there were more tournament offers in korea,then yeah. I can see foreigners going to korea to compete in the GSL AND other 'smaller' tournaments.

But as is, GSL is the only 'professional' tournament in korea and there are much more options in NA/EU.

I would love to see some foreigners (in my point of view) play in the GSL, but I don't see that happening any time soon, with the current 'unsuccessful' sc2 scene in Korea.
sheaRZerg
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States613 Posts
May 17 2011 19:52 GMT
#43
I'd love to see some more European players in the GSL...particularly Thorzain or Dimaga...

I think this might be a good system...because its just such a gamble for a foreigner to go and try to work his way up through the ranks...

and as long as the seeds can compete fairly well in the league I would hope it wouldn't anger too many korean fans. I certainly think tournaments are more exciting when there is a greater diversity of players.
"Dude, just don't listen to what I say; listen to what I mean." -Sean Plott
Mailing
Profile Joined March 2011
United States3087 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-17 20:00:24
May 17 2011 19:58 GMT
#44
Look, it's really simple.

DON'T GIVE THE GSL SUPER TOURNEY WINNER 1/2 THE DAMN PRIZE POOL.

Nobody will want to keep playing GSL when only the top 4 actually make any money.

Ro32 626.72
Ro16 1,253.45
Ro8 3,133.63
Ro4 6,267.25
2nd 18 801.75
1st 62 672.50
Total 32 92 755.30

needs to be

Ro32 1000
Ro16 2000
Ro8 4000
Ro4 7,500
2nd 10,000
1st 25,000
Total 32 98000

Are you hurting ESPORTS? Find out today - http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=232866
Pyo
Profile Joined October 2010
United States738 Posts
May 17 2011 19:59 GMT
#45
On May 18 2011 03:47 s.a.y wrote:
It's not worth it to compete in GSL for foreigners anymore.

MLG, NASL, TSL, team games (EG Masters Cup comes into mind), every day quick cups for cash > GSL.

Plus, in the MLG-GSL deal players get into Code A (1500 USD tourney) not S, just not worth it.

Idra and Incontrol give out pretty good arguments in the last SOTG.


Except, after Columbus, winner of MLG gets a Code S seed. Also, I'm sure GOM is aware of this general sentiment and will likely factor this into how they change the GSL later this year.

That said I'm not really sure what they can really do besides give foreign players huge, unfair advantages/incentives. But if foreign players are actually able to compete/place well (something none of the foreigners besides Jinro have really been able to do, I'm sure they would be more than happy to stay in Korea).
Krehlmar
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden1149 Posts
May 17 2011 20:14 GMT
#46
Fix Code A money rewards, it's ridiculous.

I agree with the auther even though I think Korea won't be the capital for esports in due time, largely because there's to many stubborn BW fans/players and I don't blame them due the money/attunement it has gotten in Korea. The rest of the world though is adopting SC2 and in due time will surpass Korea.
My Comment Doesnt Matter Because No One Reads It
Zeroxk
Profile Joined October 2010
Norway1244 Posts
May 17 2011 20:38 GMT
#47
On May 18 2011 04:58 Mailing wrote:
Look, it's really simple.

DON'T GIVE THE GSL SUPER TOURNEY WINNER 1/2 THE DAMN PRIZE POOL.

Nobody will want to keep playing GSL when only the top 4 actually make any money.

Ro32 626.72
Ro16 1,253.45
Ro8 3,133.63
Ro4 6,267.25
2nd 18 801.75
1st 62 672.50
Total 32 92 755.30

needs to be

Ro32 1000
Ro16 2000
Ro8 4000
Ro4 7,500
2nd 10,000
1st 25,000
Total 32 98000




You're asking them to output 5300$ more that's coming from where? The point of the super tourney is that it's one huge tourney once a year and you want to cut the first prize in half so it ends up being half of what a code S winner would get? Doesn't sound very "super" to me
amazingoopah
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1925 Posts
May 17 2011 20:52 GMT
#48
Definitely fixing Code A money and perhaps looking into some sort of 'dream league' so that Code B and lower-ranked code A players have something to do until the next GSL tournament could be steps in the right direction.

I think the idea of having ONE official SC2 league has really sapped the game's chances so far.... IIRC, the old BW scene had a lot of smaller tournaments (the tourneys (Z)YellOw won for example) and it was only over time that the OSL and MSL became the traditional leagues. I think that they should have let this happen organically, instead of forcing one official league for everyone.
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
May 17 2011 21:01 GMT
#49
On May 18 2011 04:58 Mailing wrote:
Look, it's really simple.

DON'T GIVE THE GSL SUPER TOURNEY WINNER 1/2 THE DAMN PRIZE POOL.

Nobody will want to keep playing GSL when only the top 4 actually make any money.

Ro32 626.72
Ro16 1,253.45
Ro8 3,133.63
Ro4 6,267.25
2nd 18 801.75
1st 62 672.50
Total 32 92 755.30

needs to be

Ro32 1000
Ro16 2000
Ro8 4000
Ro4 7,500
2nd 10,000
1st 25,000
Total 32 98000




I agree with you. But remember that in Korea the players get a salary as well. I have no clue how much that is but it is probably at least a minimum wage.

NASL, GSL should both split the prizepool better though.
I had a good night of sleep.
therockmanxx
Profile Joined July 2010
Peru1174 Posts
May 17 2011 21:22 GMT
#50
Pro scene was never about Foreign Players...
It always been like that so no big news here excecpt for Idra !!!
The big problem is that GOM is the only one that is making SC2 tournaments
Now that Blizzard and Kespa finally solve their problems some other tournamets MIGHT show up and more chances to get money from other price pools will attracts more Foreign Players
When this is gonna hppn? Probably in 2012 xD
No one else seems interested into making a big sc2 tournm in korea
The problem is not the price pool is the lack of tournaments
GOM, MSL, OSL SWL, SPL
Tekken ProGamer
dp
Profile Joined August 2003
United States234 Posts
May 17 2011 21:24 GMT
#51
Where is this 'they should get something for trying' attitude come from? I think the prize spread is perfectly reasonable. Winner gets a lot more. Makes sense to me.

Also, who are all these pros that said they wouldn't accept an invitation? Besides Idra of course. And they based this opinion on code a prize money? What tournaments are they missing out on? Its a bunch of malarkey.

Most of these players do not make their income from winning tournaments, or even playing in them. They make their money from coaching/sponsors/streaming and random show matches. And they can do all that from korea, as well as a majority of online tournaments(at the same disadvantage as koreans currently have playing in them).

Besides personal reasons, there is no excuse not to go. Unless you don't think you can win. Then I agree, don't take a spot from someone giving it their all to win.
:o
blahz0r
Profile Joined December 2010
3030 Posts
May 17 2011 21:25 GMT
#52
I don't mind foreign players as long as they can perform up to par. I watch GSL, especially Code S, to see good plays, not to watch hyped players perform under par. Good attempt at trying to increase the number of viewers though.
Liquipedia
jgoonld
Profile Joined November 2010
334 Posts
May 17 2011 22:56 GMT
#53
On May 18 2011 06:01 Koshi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2011 04:58 Mailing wrote:
Look, it's really simple.

DON'T GIVE THE GSL SUPER TOURNEY WINNER 1/2 THE DAMN PRIZE POOL.

Nobody will want to keep playing GSL when only the top 4 actually make any money.

Ro32 626.72
Ro16 1,253.45
Ro8 3,133.63
Ro4 6,267.25
2nd 18 801.75
1st 62 672.50
Total 32 92 755.30

needs to be

Ro32 1000
Ro16 2000
Ro8 4000
Ro4 7,500
2nd 10,000
1st 25,000
Total 32 98000




I agree with you. But remember that in Korea the players get a salary as well. I have no clue how much that is but it is probably at least a minimum wage.

NASL, GSL should both split the prizepool better though.


How many SC2 teams actually are getting salaries currently? I know TSL does, so I'd assume some of the other major teams do as well; but I'm not certain that it's a thing to count on for most teams and code A players.
turdburgler
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
England6749 Posts
May 17 2011 23:01 GMT
#54
i think the problem with gsl is that its so black and white. you're either in code s or your're not, code a just isnt "worth" it.

western tourneys often have group stages / double elimination, but in korea its normally single elim so getting unlucky can fuck you over for a whole month moving out there. either gom needs to host more tourneys, or make the league include more players for a longer amount of the month. without doing something its hard to tempt foreigners to take such a huge gamble.

we cant put the blame on western tourneys offering too much money to people ;/
Diamond
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States10796 Posts
May 17 2011 23:05 GMT
#55
On May 18 2011 06:01 Koshi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2011 04:58 Mailing wrote:
Look, it's really simple.

DON'T GIVE THE GSL SUPER TOURNEY WINNER 1/2 THE DAMN PRIZE POOL.

Nobody will want to keep playing GSL when only the top 4 actually make any money.

Ro32 626.72
Ro16 1,253.45
Ro8 3,133.63
Ro4 6,267.25
2nd 18 801.75
1st 62 672.50
Total 32 92 755.30

needs to be

Ro32 1000
Ro16 2000
Ro8 4000
Ro4 7,500
2nd 10,000
1st 25,000
Total 32 98000




I agree with you. But remember that in Korea the players get a salary as well. I have no clue how much that is but it is probably at least a minimum wage.

NASL, GSL should both split the prizepool better though.


Only TSL pays salaries in Korea.
Ballistix Gaming Global Gaming/Esports Marketing Manager - twitter.com/esvdiamond
Zooper31
Profile Joined May 2009
United States5710 Posts
May 17 2011 23:12 GMT
#56
On May 18 2011 03:54 thirnaz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2011 03:51 Antoine wrote:
On May 18 2011 03:47 s.a.y wrote:
It's not worth it to compete in GSL for foreigners anymore.

MLG, NASL, TSL, team games (EG Masters Cup comes into mind), every day quick cups for cash > GSL.

Plus, in the MLG-GSL deal players get into Code A (1500 USD tourney) not S, just not worth it.

Idra and Incontrol give out pretty good arguments in the last SOTG.

well, after this first event the 1st place mlg will go straight into code S

Do you have proof of this? Cuz if thats true then i guess most foreigners would accept the deal, didnt even Tyler say he might go if he got Code S?


MLG said it themselves. Top4 would get passes to get seeded directly into the GSL with the winner going straight into Code S. It's in their announcement thread.
Asato ma sad gamaya, tamaso ma jyotir gamaya, mrtyor mamrtam gamaya
Azarkon
Profile Joined January 2010
United States21060 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-18 16:04:46
May 18 2011 15:59 GMT
#57
Posted this in Xeris's thread:

"If foreigners who have been IN Korea aren't even returning for the GSL Super Tournament despite direct invites, what does that say about GSL's chances of attracting foreigner players into their regular seasons?

For most foreigners, the incentives just aren't there. They see Jinro and Huk, struggling again and again in the GSL league system, while missing everything that's going on in the West, and ask, "why bother?" Why commit to competing in Korea, against stiffer competition, when there are so many opportunities outside of Korea that do not require the same amount of commitment?

MLG is a three-day affair. Dreamhack is similar. NASL and IPL are both online. GSL, by contrast, is months long, has top-stacked rewards, and requires living in a foreign country, away from family and friends, for extended periods of time.

As far as I can tell, foreigners have already voted an initial "no" to the GSL system.

But hey, I guess we'll see what happens when the first MLG/GSL swap happens."
SuitGuy
Profile Joined March 2011
United States186 Posts
May 18 2011 16:09 GMT
#58
On May 18 2011 04:58 Mailing wrote:
Look, it's really simple.

DON'T GIVE THE GSL SUPER TOURNEY WINNER 1/2 THE DAMN PRIZE POOL.

Nobody will want to keep playing GSL when only the top 4 actually make any money.

Ro32 626.72
Ro16 1,253.45
Ro8 3,133.63
Ro4 6,267.25
2nd 18 801.75
1st 62 672.50
Total 32 92 755.30

needs to be

Ro32 1000
Ro16 2000
Ro8 4000
Ro4 7,500
2nd 10,000
1st 25,000
Total 32 98000



This is exactly right. There is no reason that the winner of GSL Code S should get 50% or more of the total prize pool. It is about as not player friendly as it gets. No foreigners are competing in GSL because there is not a reasonable chance of making a good sum of money relative to other international/local tournaments.

Suitin' it up 24/7
SuitGuy
Profile Joined March 2011
United States186 Posts
May 18 2011 16:18 GMT
#59
On May 18 2011 06:24 dp wrote:
Where is this 'they should get something for trying' attitude come from? I think the prize spread is perfectly reasonable. Winner gets a lot more. Makes sense to me.

Also, who are all these pros that said they wouldn't accept an invitation? Besides Idra of course. And they based this opinion on code a prize money? What tournaments are they missing out on? Its a bunch of malarkey.

Most of these players do not make their income from winning tournaments, or even playing in them. They make their money from coaching/sponsors/streaming and random show matches. And they can do all that from korea, as well as a majority of online tournaments(at the same disadvantage as koreans currently have playing in them).

Besides personal reasons, there is no excuse not to go. Unless you don't think you can win. Then I agree, don't take a spot from someone giving it their all to win.


They aren't "just trying" as you say. These are already the top players in the country. They aren't random individuals that just picked up the game last week and decided to play. They focus an immense amount of time on the game and they should be rewarded as such. There is no where else in the world where the 5th best person in their field is paid 20 times less than the best person. It is ridiculous and that is essentially the GSL system.
Suitin' it up 24/7
elementz
Profile Joined October 2010
United States281 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-22 20:12:04
May 22 2011 20:08 GMT
#60
It just seams to me that it will be hard to get some of the MLG winners/runner ups to accept said invites, GOM/Playxp/Koreans are up for a rude awakening when half the time or more players refuse their invites due to conflicts and not wanting to play with lag.

GSL has the prestige of being the better league by a long shot, NASL/IPL seam much lesser in comparison to prestige.
this mah s#$%$
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