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Dynamic Unit Movements, Your Thoughts? - Page 18

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Gfire
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1699 Posts
May 17 2011 19:02 GMT
#341
I'm a bit worried about hellions because if they get buffed in any way to account for greater spread, they would be OP against worker lines I feel. However, I fell they already so strong and causing units to spread will just increase micro needed for them but not make them underpowered in non-harassment scenarios.

I believe they should not cause units to spread more while standing still, only somewhat while moving.
all's fair in love and melodies
PartyBiscuit
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada4525 Posts
May 17 2011 19:02 GMT
#342
It won't happen, not in the expansions or ever. It may have been a decent idea to keep this back in beta etc, but the game is already out and this isn't a "balance" change.

Thors will be auto-terrible against mutas, Hellions will need to be removed or have some sort of wide-radius flame shot, Banelings would need to be removed or huge AOE size changes, the other spells like fungal/storm/emp would also need to be changed pretty severely. Other units would need to be subbed it...making this probably like pretty-BW with easier mechanics (auto-cast, MBS etc).
the farm ends here
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
May 17 2011 19:36 GMT
#343
On May 18 2011 04:02 PartyBiscuit wrote:
It won't happen, not in the expansions or ever. It may have been a decent idea to keep this back in beta etc, but the game is already out and this isn't a "balance" change.

Thors will be auto-terrible against mutas, Hellions will need to be removed or have some sort of wide-radius flame shot, Banelings would need to be removed or huge AOE size changes, the other spells like fungal/storm/emp would also need to be changed pretty severely. Other units would need to be subbed it...making this probably like pretty-BW with easier mechanics (auto-cast, MBS etc).


You mean changes would have to be made to other parts of the game for this to work? Incredibly insightful.

Yes, changes would have to be made. The argument is that these would be for the better. Thors aren't incredibly great against Mutalisks anymore anyway - Thors are large, clunky, and shoot really slow, so unless you have a lot and the Zerg player doesn't magic box them, they don't help out a ton anyway. Hellions would be perfectly fine - like someone else said, their attack is the same as the Lurker (in a line) and the Lurker's attack worked perfectly fine without this clumping going on. Banelings would hardly need to be removed - they'd still be good and they would also spread a lot themselves, meaning Tanks couldn't just blow down 12 of them all at once. Fungal/Storm/EMP would get a larger radius and maybe a slight damage increase, and this is how Storm was before. It really wouldn't be a massive change. It would be an expansion-esque change, but it's definitely do-able.
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
Zapdos_Smithh
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada2620 Posts
May 17 2011 19:47 GMT
#344
On May 18 2011 04:02 PartyBiscuit wrote:
It won't happen, not in the expansions or ever. It may have been a decent idea to keep this back in beta etc, but the game is already out and this isn't a "balance" change.

Thors will be auto-terrible against mutas, Hellions will need to be removed or have some sort of wide-radius flame shot, Banelings would need to be removed or huge AOE size changes, the other spells like fungal/storm/emp would also need to be changed pretty severely. Other units would need to be subbed it...making this probably like pretty-BW with easier mechanics (auto-cast, MBS etc).


Only really applies to units on the ground. You can obv. still stack air units.

Like the guy above me said, of course there would be balance changes, but it would no doubt make the game a lot better.

Uh..making units spread won't make a the game "like BW". Many RTS games have that dynamic motion mechanic I bet, not just BW. Why so defensive of sc2 anyway? BW mechanics are what BW an amazing game, why not allow SC2 to gain some of those benefits? The death balls are a bit of a problem in terms of gameplay and in terms of spectating, this would be an excellent way to deal with it.
SwirlQ
Profile Joined February 2011
United States148 Posts
May 17 2011 19:55 GMT
#345
Would love to see someone make a petition for this.
FenneK
Profile Joined November 2010
France1231 Posts
May 17 2011 19:56 GMT
#346
Interesting, but it would COMPLETELY change the game...and I'm not comfortable with that at this stage :/
good luck have batman
ShotoElite
Profile Joined March 2011
United States79 Posts
May 17 2011 20:00 GMT
#347
It is the players job to control and command units to do this, not the game's.
watsup
Zapdos_Smithh
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada2620 Posts
May 17 2011 20:01 GMT
#348
On May 18 2011 04:55 SwirlQ wrote:
Would love to see someone make a petition for this.


Yes totally please somebody make a petition regarding this. Preferably somebody who has networks to blizzard employees
Ribbon
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5278 Posts
May 17 2011 20:04 GMT
#349
If Marines auto-split, we'd never see marine splitting vs banelings, which is the most impressive type of micro in the game.

The game is balanced around clumping, and manually unclumping units to guard against AOE/get a good concave taking micro. Auto-spread makes for an entirely separate game.
Zapdos_Smithh
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada2620 Posts
May 17 2011 20:10 GMT
#350
On May 18 2011 05:04 Ribbon wrote:
If Marines auto-split, we'd never see marine splitting vs banelings, which is the most impressive type of micro in the game.

The game is balanced around clumping, and manually unclumping units to guard against AOE/get a good concave taking micro. Auto-spread makes for an entirely separate game.


You're getting it wrong. It's not auto-spread, it's not clumping up from a move command. If you already have units in a tight ball they will move in the tight ball. However if you have units spread and you move them, they will stay spread as how they were originally positioned while they are moving. You can still pack them in a tight ball, but this way you are allowed to choose what you would like i.e. MORE micro and positioning, not just "let's not get in a ball here". It's the same as in BW.
Yaotzin
Profile Joined August 2010
South Africa4280 Posts
May 17 2011 20:17 GMT
#351
On May 18 2011 05:10 Zapdos_Smithh wrote:
You're getting it wrong. It's not auto-spread, it's not clumping up from a move command. If you already have units in a tight ball they will move in the tight ball. However if you have units spread and you move them, they will stay spread as how they were originally positioned while they are moving.

Well it's pretty much the same effect. Terran then splits his marines at home, then attacks with split marines. That doesn't take skill, it's doing it while banelings are running at you that is sweet.

You can still pack them in a tight ball, but this way you are allowed to choose what you would like i.e. MORE micro and positioning, not just "let's not get in a ball here". It's the same as in BW.

Thing is, you want to be spread out more often than you want to be in a ball. So this would be a gigantic nerf to all AOE, and marines and such would have to be nerfed to the ground, AOE buffed in some way etc etc. The whole game would have to be redone. All for a really pretty minor aesthetic change?

I prefer the skillful move being splitting up your forces over the opposite, anyway.
Coeus1
Profile Joined May 2010
Finland160 Posts
May 17 2011 20:17 GMT
#352
In the next ½ years ppl start to move away from one blob armies because of AOE abilities.

Until then.. lets try to enjoy this -)
xxx
Treemonkeys
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2082 Posts
May 17 2011 20:23 GMT
#353
Yeah SC2 is easier because you can have more than 12 in a group but I think in almost every situation it would be better to have groups that small using all 1-0 keys.
http://shroomspiration.blogspot.com/
dudeman001
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States2412 Posts
May 17 2011 20:26 GMT
#354
Those spread out armies look so much more badass and intimidating marching across a battlefield. It makes the armies look bigger makes you more excited when they finally clash. But implementing something like this would have to be a HotS or LotV implementation. The impact on game balance would be so insane that so many units would need a complete overhaul when it comes to damage, cost, etc.
Sup.
ExileStrife
Profile Joined February 2009
United States170 Posts
May 17 2011 20:35 GMT
#355
All I can say is that I'd love for the game to go back to "dumb" movement and have everything be balanced around that.
Ineffability~
Profile Joined February 2011
84 Posts
May 17 2011 20:39 GMT
#356
Dunno if it has been posted but:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=198840

Yes there is the map with a similar change.

It's just visible that people want broodwar with better graphics, deep in our hearts we know that broodwar was waay awesomer than sc 2
Nightbiscuit
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden179 Posts
May 17 2011 20:40 GMT
#357
OMG this change would make me so happy. Of course, you'd have to rebalance the game but still - it would DEFINITELY be worth it.

Plz bliz
ribboo
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden1842 Posts
May 17 2011 20:44 GMT
#358
On May 18 2011 01:47 Horse...falcon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2011 01:41 ribboo wrote:
no. splitting bioballs, hts, ghosts and etc. are extremely game-changing micro 'features'. removing any of them would make the game easier. when flash jumps over, you'll see that kind of movement anyway


Actually if anything it makes the game tougher to play (especially for terrans). Bioball dps would drop dramatically and siege tanks would do next to no splash damage. Personally I think its a good change but I absolutely agree that there is a 0% chance that blizzard will implement this because it will simply be too game changing. Mostly for people who did not play brood war but like watching/playing this game. They do have to cater to the casual community as well.

you could obviously just press in the middle/just in front of your army, and they would group together. just as when flying units are very spread out, until you do the very same. So you would be able to do bio-balls, or use the dynamic movement to easier deal with tanks, banelings and collosi.
LagT_T
Profile Joined March 2010
Argentina535 Posts
May 17 2011 20:45 GMT
#359
On May 18 2011 05:39 Ineffability~ wrote:
It's just visible that people want broodwar with better graphics, deep in our hearts we know that broodwar was waay awesomer than sc 2


People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals. - K, MiB
"The tactics... no. Amateurs discuss tactics, professional soldiers study logistics." - Tom Clancy, Red Storm Rising
infinity2k9
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom2397 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-17 20:52:03
May 17 2011 20:49 GMT
#360
Just from a visual standpoint i hate the way units clump together and simply push other units away. It looks awful especially with big units like tanks and thors, i really hate it. When big groups move together it looks so unnatural and weird as well.

Even aside from the gameplay changes i would welcome it so the game's movement and animations doesn't look so goofy and C&C like. Even though BW units turned instantly, things like moving a goliath back and forth didn't look as terrible as moving thors around in a group.

Edit: But in regards to the pictures i don't think things should be spaced THAT far out... BW never did that, you could still bunch things up if you wanted.
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