• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 14:37
CEST 20:37
KST 03:37
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments0[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence10Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon9[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent10Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12
Community News
BSL 2025 Warsaw LAN + Legends Showmatch0Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups4WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments1SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia8Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues29
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft II 5.0.15 PTR Patch Notes #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy SpeCial on The Tasteless Podcast
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 491 Night Drive Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around
Brood War
General
ASL20 General Discussion Soulkey on ASL S20 BW General Discussion ASL TICKET LIVE help! :D NaDa's Body
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro16 Group D [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Ro16 Group C BSL 2025 Warsaw LAN + Legends Showmatch
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Borderlands 3 Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine UK Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final The Automated Ban List
Blogs
i'm really bored guys
Peanutsc
I <=> 9
KrillinFromwales
The Personality of a Spender…
TrAiDoS
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2037 users

Situation report Patch 1.3.3 - Page 23

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 21 22 23 24 25 27 Next All
Subversion
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
South Africa3627 Posts
May 15 2011 09:52 GMT
#441
I do find it a little bit concerning that they don't even mention PvT in regards to the archon change.
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7031 Posts
May 15 2011 09:57 GMT
#442
Uh, Blizzard saying: "we dislike X" and the existence of X for another unit, does not mean they fail at logic or are hypocritical. Case in point, Colossi might obscure units, but perhaps Blizzard can't remove or change them without severe repercussions, which isn't the case for Thors. And mind you, the only issue is having too many of them, and Colossi have been nerfed a lot since alpha.
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
thebole1
Profile Joined April 2011
Serbia126 Posts
May 15 2011 13:15 GMT
#443
there is 2 points of viuwe to the game and game balance : that is statiscitc (balance) and gameplay (what is hepening in game)

from statistic (blizzard point of viuwe game is balanced)but : exemples : maraders < zealot (that is truth fro statistics if marader is stending and zealots come to him and kill him )

but gameplay shows that stimed maraders run and shot at zealot and zealot is dead...(this is yust exemples)

or exemple whay they nerf thors (from statistic thor is op vs toss ) simply unite is too strong there is few unites that conter thors... like imortall and thor (from statistics is stronger than imortal)

but gameplay show : that imortall is coming with 5 or 6 stalkers that also do good dps vs thors...
so agean gameplay shows that statistic is wrong....

or mutalisc > void ray : from statistic point of viuwe

but in gameplay void ray comes with death ball colloss and mass stalkers that rape mutalisc...

so you can see the point what i say i think you do .... so from gamepaly we i think can see game imbalance and state of game...and not from statistics....

I THINK that blizzard should look more gameplay than statistic of balance... and fix game to be more interesting to play and whatch than now.... simply i think stim pack colloss banglings FF need to be revorked...

zerg now with infestor buff have cance to skilp mid game and to go on T3 that vs terran is preaty imba i think... ( i sugest that seige tanks need buff in dps from 50 to 60 vs armored FOR PTR yust sugesting in that case) simply ultralisc are to much for seige tanks...this is yust my opinion SRY for my ENG thx for reading...
freetgy
Profile Joined November 2010
1720 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-15 14:02:32
May 15 2011 13:52 GMT
#444
On May 15 2011 17:08 Wyk wrote:
Show nested quote +
The nature of lockdown abilities in general is that they have the potential to heavily turn the tide of battle against armies that would otherwise counter your units. Most of these abilities, especially for an ability as strong as this one, have to be fairly difficult to bring out and easier to counter.

Excuse me? What about fungal growth? Damage + root is not fun? But I guess its easily counterable because it has an instant effect with 9 range.


if you didn't notice Infestors can be EMPed or Feedbacked, so what the point?
it was alot easier to deal with heavy Infestor play (while it is still hard!) than with mass SC-thors.

Thors are basically a great overall unit, high dps, high life, air and ground attack.
both Colossus oder T3 of Zerg are neither, all of those be easily countered by Air.

While in 1v1 situations air might be good against Thors, in Mass Situations almost nothing works.
even voidrays suck due to splash and marine backup.

The thing is an Immortal already is a very specialised unit (heavy Damage against Armor, no Antiair, slow , short range)
That it can be countered so easily by the unit that it is supposed to counter is not really balanced.
BeMannerDuPenner
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
Germany5638 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-15 13:57:20
May 15 2011 13:57 GMT
#445
On May 15 2011 18:57 Grumbels wrote:
and Colossi have been nerfed a lot since alpha.

?

dont think i remember a single nerf to collosus since beta and that one big article which talked about the development of the units said the collosus worked differently, was judged to weak and then got buffed into its current form during alpha.

the only change i remember is less dmg/shot with higher attack rate which in the end gave the collosus just more value out its upgrades and overall was more of a buff then a nerf.

so i dont quite see where you draw that statement from.
life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery
s3rp
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany3192 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-15 14:14:48
May 15 2011 14:13 GMT
#446
On May 15 2011 22:52 freetgy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 15 2011 17:08 Wyk wrote:
The nature of lockdown abilities in general is that they have the potential to heavily turn the tide of battle against armies that would otherwise counter your units. Most of these abilities, especially for an ability as strong as this one, have to be fairly difficult to bring out and easier to counter.

Excuse me? What about fungal growth? Damage + root is not fun? But I guess its easily counterable because it has an instant effect with 9 range.


if you didn't notice Infestors can be EMPed or Feedbacked, so what the point?
it was alot easier to deal with heavy Infestor play (while it is still hard!) than with mass SC-thors.

Thors are basically a great overall unit, high dps, high life, air and ground attack.




They are NOT a overall great Unit because they can do everything but nothing well and are slow as shit. I'd rather have them specialed at something .
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7031 Posts
May 15 2011 17:22 GMT
#447
On May 15 2011 22:57 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 15 2011 18:57 Grumbels wrote:
and Colossi have been nerfed a lot since alpha.

?

dont think i remember a single nerf to collosus since beta and that one big article which talked about the development of the units said the collosus worked differently, was judged to weak and then got buffed into its current form during alpha.

the only change i remember is less dmg/shot with higher attack rate which in the end gave the collosus just more value out its upgrades and overall was more of a buff then a nerf.

so i dont quite see where you draw that statement from.

Maybe it's better to not go off memory?

Colossus
The damage has been decreased from 20 to 15.
The rate of fire has been improved from 2.2 to 1.65.

Colossus
Thermal Lances damage decreased from 23 to 20

They used to one-shot unupgraded marines, drones, scv's, probes, zerglings. Furthermore, higher damage is usually preferable over higher attack speed, because the former is more powerful with micro.
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
yeahsc2
Profile Joined January 2011
Serbia38 Posts
May 15 2011 17:51 GMT
#448
On May 13 2011 19:11 AndAgain wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
"First, we definitely don’t like seeing Thors en masse. Due to the visual size of the unit, as well as a small pathing radius, Thors can obscure the other units in your army too easily. This can be problematic because it's important to know roughly how many units an opponent has when scouting. We want the Thor to be the type of unit that you add to your main army, and we definitely don’t want them to be the core of your army to the point where you strive to build as many as possible."


That's an interesting view they have. It's the same reason why they got rid of the viking flower- because it made it difficult to see how many vikings there are.

I don't understand it given you can select all the units and look at the UI to count the number.


To me it is the same when Protoss has colossus. You can`t see unit under it so its kinda retarded that they would nerf something that works well against prot...oh wait, blizzard doesn`t want their Protoss to be in danger of becoming balaced.
birdkicker
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States752 Posts
May 15 2011 17:58 GMT
#449
i like how their reason for buffing archons is because they are too big and can't reach their target.

Yeah i mean the ultralisk is fine it can reach targets fine blizz
Agnosthar
Profile Joined August 2010
631 Posts
May 15 2011 18:02 GMT
#450
Shame they didn't cover their reasons for changing the relationship between PDD and Brood Lords.
Rabiator
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany3948 Posts
May 17 2011 09:59 GMT
#451
GSTL Day 2 ... BBoongBBoong.Prime(Z) vs MVPTails(P)

The Zerg used 20 (?) Overlords to totally obscure a huge ball of Roaches. So "we dont like units obscuring other units" isnt really a valid argument.
If you cant say what you're meaning, you can never mean what you're saying.
Jinsho
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom3101 Posts
May 17 2011 10:02 GMT
#452
Of course it is. Just because it's still possible in the game doesn't mean that Blizzard is happy with it. Go on, suggest how you would change Overlords obscuring other units without making them ground units or invisible.

Acritter
Profile Joined August 2010
Syria7637 Posts
May 17 2011 10:05 GMT
#453
I love the way Blizzard lets us see what they're thinking. Makes their decisions a lot easier to relate to. Guess they actually do care.
dont let your memes be dreams - konydora, motivational speaker | not actually living in syria
laurine90
Profile Joined May 2011
Serbia33 Posts
May 17 2011 10:13 GMT
#454
interesting that there seems to be a wide spread opinion with p being the dominant race when if you have checked gsl code s code a results since the 1st gsl one may argue different just wondering
peace love
Zarahtra
Profile Joined May 2010
Iceland4053 Posts
May 17 2011 10:15 GMT
#455
Those are quite horrible reasons imo. The bunker nerf... it just doesn't change anything really. I mean toss/zerg players think it's some big change, but it really isn't.

Thor nerf... Well their reasonings are a joke imo. Heavy thor play is already very hard to do, without getting outmacroed, it's very hard to engage(since if your first thor dies before he takes out his target, your 2nd thor dies before he does too and it snowballs until no thor has taken out his target, this was before nerf). Also nerf because they took to much visual space... wtf.

Infestor nerf...Terran has stim and toss has stalkers, both are quite ok to chase down infestors. I actually thought they did it to make them easier to control, but...
Paradice
Profile Joined October 2010
New Zealand431 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-17 10:22:08
May 17 2011 10:20 GMT
#456
On May 16 2011 02:51 yeahsc2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2011 19:11 AndAgain wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
"First, we definitely don’t like seeing Thors en masse. Due to the visual size of the unit, as well as a small pathing radius, Thors can obscure the other units in your army too easily. This can be problematic because it's important to know roughly how many units an opponent has when scouting. We want the Thor to be the type of unit that you add to your main army, and we definitely don’t want them to be the core of your army to the point where you strive to build as many as possible."


That's an interesting view they have. It's the same reason why they got rid of the viking flower- because it made it difficult to see how many vikings there are.

I don't understand it given you can select all the units and look at the UI to count the number.


To me it is the same when Protoss has colossus. You can`t see unit under it so its kinda retarded that they would nerf something that works well against prot...oh wait, blizzard doesn`t want their Protoss to be in danger of becoming balaced.


Are you suggesting that Blizzard should make Protoss units not clump under the colossus? Yes, spread them out more so that EMP, siege tanks and fungals are less effective against the deathball. I'm sure other terrans will love you for that suggestion!

p.s. to the guy you were quoting - umm, you can't select multiple units of your opponent.
Zarahtra
Profile Joined May 2010
Iceland4053 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-17 10:51:24
May 17 2011 10:33 GMT
#457
On May 17 2011 19:20 Paradice wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2011 02:51 yeahsc2 wrote:
On May 13 2011 19:11 AndAgain wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
"First, we definitely don’t like seeing Thors en masse. Due to the visual size of the unit, as well as a small pathing radius, Thors can obscure the other units in your army too easily. This can be problematic because it's important to know roughly how many units an opponent has when scouting. We want the Thor to be the type of unit that you add to your main army, and we definitely don’t want them to be the core of your army to the point where you strive to build as many as possible."


That's an interesting view they have. It's the same reason why they got rid of the viking flower- because it made it difficult to see how many vikings there are.

I don't understand it given you can select all the units and look at the UI to count the number.


To me it is the same when Protoss has colossus. You can`t see unit under it so its kinda retarded that they would nerf something that works well against prot...oh wait, blizzard doesn`t want their Protoss to be in danger of becoming balaced.


Are you suggesting that Blizzard should make Protoss units not clump under the colossus? Yes, spread them out more so that EMP, siege tanks and fungals are less effective against the deathball. I'm sure other terrans will love you for that suggestion!

p.s. to the guy you were quoting - umm, you can't select multiple units of your opponent.

No, he's suggesting it's a horrible reason to nerf an already bad unit that was possibly finding its very niche build order/playstyle.

Toss/zerg players keep raving on "lolololo make something else than t1 units lolololol noob", but it's very frustrating that when you do, blizzard takes it away, slaps you on the hand and says "MMM you moron!".

Edit: The saddest part is, if they want thor to be a support unit, they have to realize why it isn't being used as one currently.
Reason: It has no real synergy with the majority of terran units(hellion/tanks only) due to their speed. So when you get thors, you're trading slight beefyness(Actually not really, you are hoping your opponent aoes the thor, since the thor has actually less life against units other than colossi/ht/archon) for a lot of mobility, mobility which is the reason why majority of terran unit combos work. Sadly, making thor faster I believe would make it to strong, so it's just back to being a support unit for mech play... *sigh*
L0thar
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
987 Posts
May 17 2011 12:42 GMT
#458
The best situation report was the TSL Grand Finals. Just look at how much Thorzain used his signature unit. Yeah.
Good job Blizzard, really good job :/.
DooMDash
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1015 Posts
May 17 2011 13:13 GMT
#459
I wanted to ask any Master + Terrans what they think about the ghost change. I'm starting to think it was more of a nerf. I always seem gas heavy in TvX. Maybe it's just me.
S1 3500+ Master T. S2 1600+ Master T.
BlueSpace
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany2182 Posts
May 17 2011 13:31 GMT
#460
We've seen too many bunker rushes vs. zerg, and we felt that adjusting the salvage return rate would be a positive change.


I find this somewhat hilarious.

Soldier: "Sir, should we start building bunkers near the Zerg Base?"
Commander: "No way! HQ isn't giving full refunds anymore on them."
Soldier: "But Sir, we could cripple the Zerg forces and win this battle!"
Commander: "No full refund, No bunker! You have your orders! Attack!"
Probe1: "Because people are opinionated and love to share their thoughts. Then they read someone else agree with them and get their opinion confused with fact."
Prev 1 21 22 23 24 25 27 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 15h 23m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
UpATreeSC 297
SteadfastSC 136
JuggernautJason135
IndyStarCraft 111
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 21333
Bisu 1116
EffOrt 727
Mini 714
Soulkey 118
ggaemo 84
Larva 79
sas.Sziky 42
Shine 35
Hyun 34
[ Show more ]
Aegong 30
Dewaltoss 19
scan(afreeca) 18
Sexy 16
Dota 2
qojqva5113
Fuzer 176
Counter-Strike
fl0m1156
flusha1
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu161
Other Games
Sick3754
FrodaN1765
Beastyqt629
Hui .212
ArmadaUGS99
C9.Mang097
Trikslyr66
QueenE61
mouzStarbuck53
NeuroSwarm36
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Reevou 2
• intothetv
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki23
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 4363
• WagamamaTV640
League of Legends
• Nemesis2932
• TFBlade755
Other Games
• imaqtpie631
• Shiphtur221
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
15h 23m
Zoun vs Classic
Map Test Tournament
16h 23m
Korean StarCraft League
1d 8h
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
1d 13h
RSL Revival
1d 15h
Reynor vs Cure
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Online Event
2 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
LiuLi Cup
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-09-10
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL World Championship of Poland 2025
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL 21 Team A
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
EC S1
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.