|
On May 13 2011 22:55 maartendq wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 22:24 XenoX101 wrote:
Guys this isn't supreme commander, mass thor shouldn't be as viable a strat as it was before. Besides, you can still go mass thor, it's just an appropriately risky strat now rather than a braindead "lets mass tier 3" with an insta hard counter to its hard counter immortals. I have, in one year and two months of playing starcraft 2, never seen ANYONE go mass thors. That's just not feasible. I really wonder how anyone can mass a unit that costs 300/200 and 6 supply and not lose to early pressure.
Fruitdealer vs rainbow on Kulas.
On May 14 2011 00:49 a176 wrote:Show nested quote +If a zerg player is totally unprepared, we don't mind them just outright losing the game. LOL.
LOL ;D
they should just give roaches a +2 range upgrade let it hit air and buff the unit size.
BINGO BANGO DRAGOONS FOR ZERG!
|
On May 14 2011 00:15 Yaotzin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2011 00:14 MindRush wrote:On May 13 2011 19:00 curreh wrote:
wow we posted this at the exact same time mot ahaha, you can delete mine lol <3
I understand the thor energy reasoning a lot more now, I think they had good grounds to do it on
I think 4 gating still needs a few changes, it seems to remain quite strong but the archon changes were a good step forwards! thor is not supposed to be main army units, just support same reasoning should then be applied to collosi ? maybe ? You think colossi aren't a support unit..?
collosi ARE a support unit
just massing them should not be so damn powerful
|
On May 14 2011 01:01 Madkipz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 22:55 maartendq wrote:On May 13 2011 22:24 XenoX101 wrote:
Guys this isn't supreme commander, mass thor shouldn't be as viable a strat as it was before. Besides, you can still go mass thor, it's just an appropriately risky strat now rather than a braindead "lets mass tier 3" with an insta hard counter to its hard counter immortals. I have, in one year and two months of playing starcraft 2, never seen ANYONE go mass thors. That's just not feasible. I really wonder how anyone can mass a unit that costs 300/200 and 6 supply and not lose to early pressure. Fruitdealer vs rainbow on Kulas. Show nested quote +On May 14 2011 00:49 a176 wrote:If a zerg player is totally unprepared, we don't mind them just outright losing the game. LOL. LOL ;D they should just give roaches a +2 range upgrade let it hit air and buff the unit size. BINGO BANGO DRAGOONS FOR ZERG!
Or half the unit size ... and you get hydras!
|
Sounds all reasonable to me, only not the Thor "mass looks not good" argument. But Thor Nerf was still needed, so i don't mind.
|
Overall a good patch. Blizzard is getting better at justifying their reasoning for these patches.
Nicely done.
|
On May 14 2011 01:01 Madkipz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 22:55 maartendq wrote:On May 13 2011 22:24 XenoX101 wrote:
Guys this isn't supreme commander, mass thor shouldn't be as viable a strat as it was before. Besides, you can still go mass thor, it's just an appropriately risky strat now rather than a braindead "lets mass tier 3" with an insta hard counter to its hard counter immortals. I have, in one year and two months of playing starcraft 2, never seen ANYONE go mass thors. That's just not feasible. I really wonder how anyone can mass a unit that costs 300/200 and 6 supply and not lose to early pressure. Fruitdealer vs rainbow on Kulas.
Don't forget SlayerS_BoxeR vs oGsZenio on Terminus Re:
http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors2/vod/62876
Although BoxeR backed his Thors up with blue-flame Hellions.
|
On May 14 2011 01:03 MindRush wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2011 00:15 Yaotzin wrote:On May 14 2011 00:14 MindRush wrote:On May 13 2011 19:00 curreh wrote:
wow we posted this at the exact same time mot ahaha, you can delete mine lol <3
I understand the thor energy reasoning a lot more now, I think they had good grounds to do it on
I think 4 gating still needs a few changes, it seems to remain quite strong but the archon changes were a good step forwards! thor is not supposed to be main army units, just support same reasoning should then be applied to collosi ? maybe ? You think colossi aren't a support unit..? collosi ARE a support unit just massing them should not be so damn powerful
It is only powerful in PvP.
Against Terran and Zerg, mass Colossus is awful. Quicker upgrades and Templar tech > over production of Colossus
|
lovely patch, so sad that i'm not able to play for a month or two 
|
Thors are pretty much dead now in TvP unfortunately. It's really not possible to use them as a support unit with bio in general. The big strength of bio is the mobility and Thors are the least mobile unit in the game, ,so you actually gimp your bio army by 'supporting' them with Thors. And since they don't share upgrades, you will end up with 0/0 Thors which get eaten alive by heavy upgraded P armies
The only real way to combine Thor with bio is a Thor-rush, but that build is close to dead now that it takes forever to get enough energy for a strike-cannon (leaving it super vulnerable to Immortals). And since mass Thor is basically suicide now, I doubt we will see them again in this matchup. Well, it was fun while it lasted for like 2 whole weeks 
Have to say I'm very dissapointed that Blizzard is willing to severely limit the strategic options in the game, just so it's played as they imagined it is supposed to be. Perhaps Thor-based strategy was infact imba, but they could have gone with a smaller nerf to keep it viable without being overpowering. Instead they just gimp it to such a degree that Terran has no choice but to go bio again, since that is the way Blizzard wants it. Just like when T started using BC's against P a long time ago and BC got nerfed. And when T started doing heavy tank builds and Tanks got nerfed. Terrans better stop experimenting with non-bio builds as it will just end with more units getting nerfed
|
I usually pretty on-board with Blizzard's explanations, but some of these are just silly, imo of-c.
I remember in the very early days of SC2 public you'd say to yourself, "uh oh, he's going Void Ray." This was indicated by any number of scoutable things. And for a while, it was amazingly hard to deal with. Then we all figured it out and it became a pathetic strategy as it was being used back then.
I'm pretty sure I remember a time when if someone (possibly a Protoss player) said, "yeah ... I got beat by Mass Thor," the other person would look at them funny and go, "You lost to Mass Thor?" Chuckle, throw out a troll face and an 'l2p' and virtually walk away, still chuckling.
Now all of the sudden Mass Thor is too much to handle? Lol. It just seems to me like if you don't want Thors to be used "en masse" (what does that even mean? Five, Ten, Twelve, Fifteen?) then why are they a single-target DPS unit? Their cost is super high, build time is super long, and they only hit one unit at a time. I'd be willing to say that mass [INSERT ANY OTHER Tier3 UNIT] would out DPS a Mass Thor army (but I could be wrong).
Also, the "we don't like how it looks" part of the explanation was pretty funny. Really? Then something shocking was said. They were saying that they understand that upgrades are designed to modify or alter the counter-role/efficacy of certain units/comps but then essentially said, we'd rather the Templar based army counter every single possible comp a Terran can build.
Don't even get me started on the Bunker ... It is just not a fight worth starting. The mineral change is not a huge deal, but the principle behind it is outrageous.
+ Show Spoiler [Protoss Flowchart ->] +Protoss Flowchart ->
-> Is he building Thors?
-> Decides to not win the game.
-> 15 minutes pass
-> ZOMFG Mass Thor!
-> Mass Thor begins to march across the map
-> 5 minutes pass
-> Mass Thor arrives at opponents base
-> gg, mass thor imba. Leave game.
|
On May 13 2011 19:21 Tppz! wrote:Show nested quote +We want the Thor to be the type of unit that you add to your main army, and we definitely don’t want them to be the core of your army to the point where you strive to build as many as possible. I'd like to ask Blizzard why Terran Pplayers should add the Thor t an Army if he has no function anymore but killing stacked mutas. There is no way you can add a Thor to an army as a support unit. Its 6 Supply each walking slower than anyrthing else so it can absorb the damage when you push.
Well they're quite good at eating up splash damage from storms if toss goes HT's an-OH WAIT now feedback owns them. Well I guess ghosts are less gas now so I can EMP my own units -_-
|
On May 13 2011 19:11 AndAgain wrote:+ Show Spoiler +"First, we definitely don’t like seeing Thors en masse. Due to the visual size of the unit, as well as a small pathing radius, Thors can obscure the other units in your army too easily. This can be problematic because it's important to know roughly how many units an opponent has when scouting. We want the Thor to be the type of unit that you add to your main army, and we definitely don’t want them to be the core of your army to the point where you strive to build as many as possible." That's an interesting view they have. It's the same reason why they got rid of the viking flower- because it made it difficult to see how many vikings there are. I don't understand it given you can select all the units and look at the UI to count the number.
They're talking about enemies' view when seeing your army as well.
|
On May 14 2011 01:03 MindRush wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2011 00:15 Yaotzin wrote:On May 14 2011 00:14 MindRush wrote:On May 13 2011 19:00 curreh wrote:
wow we posted this at the exact same time mot ahaha, you can delete mine lol <3
I understand the thor energy reasoning a lot more now, I think they had good grounds to do it on
I think 4 gating still needs a few changes, it seems to remain quite strong but the archon changes were a good step forwards! thor is not supposed to be main army units, just support same reasoning should then be applied to collosi ? maybe ? You think colossi aren't a support unit..? collosi ARE a support unit just massing them should not be so damn powerful
I don't understand. What do you mean by massing them? It's awful to just mass colossus, they need a lot of gateway units to hide behind. If you have a lot of collosi behind a lot of gw units, they are fulfilling their role. If you have a lot of colossi and few gw units, you, um, die.
|
It's nice to hear that Blizzard keeps telling us why they have decided the changes.
|
On May 14 2011 01:11 The KY wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 19:21 Tppz! wrote:We want the Thor to be the type of unit that you add to your main army, and we definitely don’t want them to be the core of your army to the point where you strive to build as many as possible. I'd like to ask Blizzard why Terran Pplayers should add the Thor t an Army if he has no function anymore but killing stacked mutas. There is no way you can add a Thor to an army as a support unit. Its 6 Supply each walking slower than anyrthing else so it can absorb the damage when you push. Well they're quite good at eating up splash damage from storms if toss goes HT's an-OH WAIT now feedback owns them. Well I guess ghosts are less gas now so I can EMP my own units -_-
OR you could ... use some apm to emp templars. Yeah I know, it's a strange idea. Silly me.
|
If a zerg player is totally unprepared, we don't mind them just outright losing the game.
I find something terribly wrong with this statement..
|
On May 14 2011 01:27 Erasme wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2011 01:11 The KY wrote:On May 13 2011 19:21 Tppz! wrote:We want the Thor to be the type of unit that you add to your main army, and we definitely don’t want them to be the core of your army to the point where you strive to build as many as possible. I'd like to ask Blizzard why Terran Pplayers should add the Thor t an Army if he has no function anymore but killing stacked mutas. There is no way you can add a Thor to an army as a support unit. Its 6 Supply each walking slower than anyrthing else so it can absorb the damage when you push. Well they're quite good at eating up splash damage from storms if toss goes HT's an-OH WAIT now feedback owns them. Well I guess ghosts are less gas now so I can EMP my own units -_- OR you could ... use some apm to emp templars. Yeah I know, it's a strange idea. Silly me.
OR i could EMP BOTH ? It's not like im guarrateed to hit every templar the Protoss has. If he's clumping them like an idiot yeah maybe. If i EMP my Thor i guarantee he's not going to get hit by Feedback.
|
On May 14 2011 01:34 TheGreenBee wrote:Show nested quote + If a zerg player is totally unprepared, we don't mind them just outright losing the game. I find something terribly wrong with this statement..
Why? That's a pretty obvious and fundamental principal.
|
Excellent patch. Great buff on ghosts to make TvP more micro intensive. I love the encouragement of HT in the PvT matchup, also to make it more micro intensive.
Love the nerf on Thors, making a mass Thor strategy unviable is great. Now it'll be Thor + ghost vs Immortal + HT which would be AWESOME to see.
Great PvP changes making the matchup much more interesting and watchable.
This is not a BALANCE patch per se, it's a WATCHABLE patch. Balance is not everything. Watchable, enjoyable is more important that strict balance. This patch makes the game more watchable, entertaining and enjoyable to play. Great job Blizzard.
|
On May 14 2011 01:37 TimeSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2011 01:34 TheGreenBee wrote: If a zerg player is totally unprepared, we don't mind them just outright losing the game. I find something terribly wrong with this statement.. Why? That's a pretty obvious and fundamental principal.
Seeing as how Protoss and Terran do not have to scout for air attacks and still be safe because they are going to make marines and stalkers anyway.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
