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flodeskum
Iceland1267 Posts
On May 13 2011 23:45 videogames wrote: So they don't like mass Thors but are okay with mass Colossi? Doesn't make any sense to me. Colossi are anti-ground units that will die without support. Thors can be massed without support, which blizzard does not like. I hope you can make sense of that because I'm sure you'll have to deal with a lot more complicated issues later in life. | ||
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Iyerbeth
England2410 Posts
As a Zerg player Thors never really bothered me except with Muta play which is unaffected anyway so I never really had a problem with them, but even I could see the huge problem with Immortal being the counter to Thor and other heavy mech and Thor's Strike Cannons negating that counter completely with absolutely no other option for a Protoss player. Regarding Colossi, yeah you have to get air units to deal with them effectively (though again it's not uncommon to see ground forces, especially with ghosts, snipe them off pretty quickly) but at least there is a counter to it that can't be literally immediately shut down in a similar fashion to Strike Cannon on Immortal before the energy return. In a similar way, Protoss would have to have robo and templar tech and produce HT's if they want access to both of the efficient counter routes, so it's basically the same thing, albeit maybe more expensive for the Protoss player as I understand it since most Terran will already have a starport for medivacs as standard play. All in all, I actually have nothing bad to say about this patch. | ||
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
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MindRush
Romania916 Posts
On May 13 2011 19:00 curreh wrote: wow we posted this at the exact same time mot ahaha, you can delete mine lol <3 I understand the thor energy reasoning a lot more now, I think they had good grounds to do it on I think 4 gating still needs a few changes, it seems to remain quite strong but the archon changes were a good step forwards! thor is not supposed to be main army units, just support same reasoning should then be applied to collosi ? maybe ? | ||
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
On May 14 2011 00:14 MindRush wrote: thor is not supposed to be main army units, just support same reasoning should then be applied to collosi ? maybe ? You think colossi aren't a support unit..? | ||
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Coriolis
United States1152 Posts
On May 14 2011 00:12 DoubleReed wrote: I actually didn't understand the Thor explanation. I was under the impression that mass Thor was more common vs Zerg and Thor Rush was more common vs Protoss. So this makes the Thor Rush weaker, but I don't see how this changes the potency of mass Thor. Because strike cannons were basically a requirement in order to nullify immortals. Sure you can emp them, but the reason strike cannons were good was because it lowered immortal dps to 0. Now that isn't the case because getting enough energy for strike cannons takes forever in addition to running the risk of being feedbacked. | ||
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GinDo
3327 Posts
Collosi are pretty much the unit in all PvX match ups. Gateways are fodder needed to Collosi can't be sniped. They aren't really the support unit because their spammed and often take more population then the gateway army. | ||
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Oreo7
United States1647 Posts
That said, their reasoning is silly. Thor should have been nerfed because thor on immortal battles came down to the protoss needing to just outproduce the terran entirely - in other words, the only way you can beat a meching play is by macroing better, and that's a little silly. I though they were slightly OP pre patch. | ||
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ridonkulous
159 Posts
On May 14 2011 00:18 GinDo wrote: Collosi are pretty much the unit in all PvX match ups. Gateways are fodder needed to Collosi can't be sniped. They aren't really the support unit because their spammed and often take more population then the gateway army. 3-3 gatway units are scary dont tell me they are just "fodder" because thats not true they can definately fight for their own and hts is a gatway unit too which can used as a substitute to colo. | ||
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
On May 14 2011 00:18 GinDo wrote: Collosi are pretty much the unit in all PvX match ups. Gateways are fodder needed to Collosi can't be sniped. They aren't really the support unit because their spammed and often take more population then the gateway army. You've never played P have you? Colossi aren't even that common anymore, and gateway units are most certainly the meat and bones, taking up most of our supply. Colossi (or more commonly now, templar) are purely to stop mass ranged units (hydra, marines) from destroying the gateway army. | ||
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Oreo7
United States1647 Posts
On May 14 2011 00:18 GinDo wrote: Collosi are pretty much the unit in all PvX match ups. Gateways are fodder needed to Collosi can't be sniped. They aren't really the support unit because their spammed and often take more population then the gateway army. Nah, depends on your style. Collosi can be a support unit if you go some strats, or basically your whole army if you go some other strats. I think the same remains true with thors.You can still get 'em en masse, but it's better for the terran to have a mix. The same is basically true with collosi. | ||
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squintz
Canada217 Posts
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s3rp
Germany3192 Posts
On May 14 2011 00:24 Yaotzin wrote: You've never played P have you? Colossi aren't even that common anymore, and gateway units are most certainly the meat and bones, taking up most of our supply. Colossi (or more commonly now, templar) are purely to stop mass ranged units (hydra, marines) from destroying the gateway army. Kolossi / Templar , non-Gateway Units are the Main DPS of the Protoss army the Gateway ball is just the Support. I need to hardcounter those things ASAP as Terran or i'm dead. With Terran well the Endgame Units ( not counting ghosts ) are just something you can build instead of your regular Units but don't actually make your army any better . | ||
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GxZ
United States375 Posts
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
On May 14 2011 00:24 Yaotzin wrote: You've never played P have you? Colossi aren't even that common anymore, and gateway units are most certainly the meat and bones, taking up most of our supply. Colossi (or more commonly now, templar) are purely to stop mass ranged units (hydra, marines) from destroying the gateway army. They are still common...They just aren't massed. The ideal Protoss army has at least 3/4 Colossus in there at all times. There is no Protoss composition that wouldn't do better with 4 Colossus as opposed to 0 Colossus. It is just a shift, people just used the money they would burn on more Colossus and invested it into quick upgrades against Terran, as Mass Colossus is terrible against Ghost/Viking+MMM. That and Zerg late game armies tend to make you not want to invest money into anything other than Templars and Stalkers :/ | ||
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s3rp
Germany3192 Posts
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Vetrocide
Norway600 Posts
if a zerg player is totally unprepared, we don't mind them just outright losing the game. Thats funny, cause they cant be prepared 90% of the time | ||
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4Servy
Netherlands1542 Posts
The only problem for protoss vs this style was like map architecture eg crossfire/xel naga were its hard to get a good concave so it was a good build on these 2 maps. On those maps however mass blink stalkers would destroy thor compositions always just cause moblity and in base race senarios. But noobs whined about it on the forums so I guess blizzard just nerfed it for them to be quiet. | ||
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Effay
United States153 Posts
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
If a zerg player is totally unprepared, we don't mind them just outright losing the game. LOL. | ||
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