EPT[Show] Inside The Game - Official Thread - Page 368
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sns3rsam
United States138 Posts
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m4inbrain
1505 Posts
Where in his post does he do that? In fact, he mirrors my opinion to 100%, am i a child now as well with 30 years of age? I don't really get it. It's actually pretty simple. Complain about blizzard. As they do. But also, think of a way how you (or "we") could change something. Im pretty sure, that this "community" can do better than just bandwagoning on dramas or emailing sponsors. Call me naive for that, don't care. This community is the most self-destructive community (well, next to Diablo 3) i have ever seen in my ~15 years gaming experience, guess what. That does not help. Like, at all. Instead of trying to be constructive (or even just "positive"), everything gets bashed and smashed down. Yeah Blizzard screwed us, big time. In fact, almost everything they touch at the moment goes down the drain (WoW, Diablo, Starcraft). But if you just sit there, watch it go and die in self-pity, you are as big of a part of that as Blizzard. Starcraft 2 will never get the numbers that LoL gets. And it doesn't need to. It's the only competetive RTS at the moment, so we always will have at least some kind of "player- and viewerbase". I don't like LoL, i just don't. I like RTS, so i watch Starcraft. As do many others, and i'm not in for the money like maybe Geoff or Greg (at least to some degree). I don't see SC2 slowly die to LoL. But i also don't see it getting anywhere near LoL in terms of viewers etc. Can't happen, based on the genre alone. And just as a sidenote, Greg and Geoff should commentate way more. It's so much more fun to watch active pro-gamers commentate than the "regular" commentators, i don't know why. In fact (he won't really care, but anyway) Idras casting made me change my "opinion" about him. I really like him casting. And Geoff should maybe consider a career in acting, his face is really expressive. Maybe you should talk to Jessica, i'm sure she could find a role for you in her next film.  edit: screw spelling and grammar, im tired | ||
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JacobShock
Denmark2485 Posts
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Artok
Netherlands2219 Posts
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Going4Gold
United Kingdom67 Posts
At one point djwheat's argument against SC2 dying was that without SC2 LOL and Dota2 wouldn't be as popular as they are - what difference does that make to whether SC2 is dying in the next couple of years. Then, after PainUser made some suggestions about the UI and how to make it more casual-friendly djwheat complained about SC2 turning into LOL despite the fact that none of PainUsers suggestions (or destinys for that matter) concerned the game itself. incontrol also made a fool of himself saying that more casual players wouldn't mean more viewers for tournaments - I think it goes without saying that the number of people watching tournaments is probably proportional to the number of people logging into the game each week - whether it's to ladder or play custom games. Not everyone who watches tournaments is laddering non-stop, incontrol even contradicted himself by making this point himself when he talked about meeting fans at tournament who didn't even play the game as it was too a hard but liked watching! As for idra, incontrol and djwheat saying that they can change the game and stop it dying - Blizzard has the source code. I didn't agree with destiny at first but if this is what the mindset of the "pros" is than yes, SC2 probably will die in the next couple of years. | ||
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B_Type13X2
Canada122 Posts
The thing people are not comprehending is the ability to listen and analyze. Idra and Incontrol said numerous times that Blizzard could do things to make it better but they are not doing so. They said the reason why they wont bother with twitter bombing Blizzard is because they know they suck at implementing features players want in any sort of reasonable time frame. Why there is conflict with destiny is because of how destiny is spreading panic in the community and abusing his fame in the community to get more impressionable people to follow his lead. Breaking down Blizzards doors with a laundry list of demands does not get you any positive results. Its sad that Idra and Incontrol are adopting a Day9esque approach to this whole thing. (Day9 doesn't complain about balance because he doesn't see the point it doesn't make him a better player.) Incontrol and Idra probably agree with almost everything Destiny says about game features that are missing but do not agree with him about the game being doomed or his methods about enacting change. | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On October 29 2012 08:28 Going4Gold wrote: djwheat and incontrol came out of that show looking bad, painuser and destiny came out looking like they knew what's going on in esports and idra just came out of it looking like idra. Destiny did? wow. | ||
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Bart
494 Posts
Person -----> Game MvPSC -----> LoL Coca -----> LoL Select -----> DoTA2 Doa -----> part time LoL Tasteless -----> part time LoL Wolf -----> part time LoL | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On October 29 2012 11:10 Bart wrote: I think a huge indication of the SC2 dying is when prominent SC2 players/casters etc are switching to other esports games. Not sure if there is a list out there but so far from what I've heard/read: Person -----> Game MvPSC -----> LoL Coca -----> LoL Select -----> DoTA2 Doa -----> part time LoL Tasteless -----> part time LoL Wolf -----> part time LoL SC - Hasn't had results in a year Coca - hasn't had results in a year Select - hasn't had results in a year DOA - dunno much about him except I muted him all the time Tasteless - has never seemed to enjoy sc2 anywhere near as much as artosis. I am not surprised he is starting to cast lol Wolf - He casts GSTL and code A right? In general doesn't show in anyway shape or form that sc2 is dying lol. Now if this had been players at good spots in their career like taeja/MVP/etc then I might agree with you that sc2 is dying. | ||
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EtohEtoh
Canada669 Posts
On October 29 2012 08:28 Going4Gold wrote: djwheat and incontrol came out of that show looking bad, painuser and destiny came out looking like they knew what's going on in esports and idra just came out of it looking like idra. At one point djwheat's argument against SC2 dying was that without SC2 LOL and Dota2 wouldn't be as popular as they are - what difference does that make to whether SC2 is dying in the next couple of years. Then, after PainUser made some suggestions about the UI and how to make it more casual-friendly djwheat complained about SC2 turning into LOL despite the fact that none of PainUsers suggestions (or destinys for that matter) concerned the game itself. incontrol also made a fool of himself saying that more casual players wouldn't mean more viewers for tournaments - I think it goes without saying that the number of people watching tournaments is probably proportional to the number of people logging into the game each week - whether it's to ladder or play custom games. Not everyone who watches tournaments is laddering non-stop, incontrol even contradicted himself by making this point himself when he talked about meeting fans at tournament who didn't even play the game as it was too a hard but liked watching! As for idra, incontrol and djwheat saying that they can change the game and stop it dying - Blizzard has the source code. I didn't agree with destiny at first but if this is what the mindset of the "pros" is than yes, SC2 probably will die in the next couple of years. You misunderstood the entire argument | ||
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CiCeRoSC2
United States83 Posts
Tasteless isn't casting SC2 any less than he ever was, so I don't feel like there was anything lost there. Select was a DotA player before SC2. Not too surprising to see him leave. | ||
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Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
This has definitely been SotG 2.0. DJwheat lost a lot of my respect due to how he acted at the end of the episode, and the EG duo were dicks as usual. Destiny had legitimate points, but the three of them kept shooting them down with "well we need to do things, cause Blizzard won't." They literally had zero contributions to the discussion and made it personal at one point. Honestly think Painuser was the only good one in the whole thing. He took both sides of the argument of both sides and actually tried to keep things civil. | ||
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LuckoftheIrish
United States4791 Posts
On October 29 2012 12:46 Cloud9157 wrote: So after watching E57 on this: This has definitely been SotG 2.0. DJwheat lost a lot of my respect due to how he acted at the end of the episode, and the EG duo were dicks as usual. Destiny had legitimate points, but the three of them kept shooting them down with "well we need to do things, cause Blizzard won't." They literally had zero contributions to the discussion and made it personal at one point. Honestly think Painuser was the only good one in the whole thing. He took both sides of the argument of both sides and actually tried to keep things civil. Wait, seriously? Destiny ragequitting with 'you suck at Starcraft' wasn't "making it personal"? I really don't think you followed the conversation at all - which is understandable, there was a lot of yelling over one another - and are just speaking to your bais. | ||
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Gamegene
United States8308 Posts
On October 29 2012 11:20 blade55555 wrote: SC - Hasn't had results in a year Coca - hasn't had results in a year Select - hasn't had results in a year DOA - dunno much about him except I muted him all the time Tasteless - has never seemed to enjoy sc2 anywhere near as much as artosis. I am not surprised he is starting to cast lol Wolf - He casts GSTL and code A right? In general doesn't show in anyway shape or form that sc2 is dying lol. Now if this had been players at good spots in their career like taeja/MVP/etc then I might agree with you that sc2 is dying. Tasteless was brought in because there were no english LoL casters available for GOMTV, not to say that he doesn really enjoy SC2. | ||
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bokeevboke
Singapore1674 Posts
On October 29 2012 15:10 LuckoftheIrish wrote: Wait, seriously? Destiny ragequitting with 'you suck at Starcraft' wasn't "making it personal"? I really don't think you followed the conversation at all - which is understandable, there was a lot of yelling over one another - and are just speaking to your bais. The problem is, it was very apparent from the beginning that ITG crew wanting to destroy Destiny, they weren't ready for any constructive dialog, they were pinpointing every little flaw Destiny had but completely ignored whole picture of situation which Destiny was trying to explain. Incontrol high-fiving IdrA made me cringe, that was so cheap, childish and below the level of any professionalism. If ITG crew was so determined that community is able to save and sustain sc2 they should've shown some sort of professionalism, attitude and respect. For example: They should've turned to audience from time to time, and comment on things, make people believe that everything is ok and we are moving in right direction. But instead they were bashing destiny over and over again. That was pathetic. (except Painuser, he wasn't part of Destroy destiny plan, he was actually trying to discuss things). | ||
Falling
Canada11369 Posts
On October 29 2012 11:20 blade55555 wrote: SC - Hasn't had results in a year Coca - hasn't had results in a year Select - hasn't had results in a year DOA - dunno much about him except I muted him all the time Tasteless - has never seemed to enjoy sc2 anywhere near as much as artosis. I am not surprised he is starting to cast lol Wolf - He casts GSTL and code A right? In general doesn't show in anyway shape or form that sc2 is dying lol. Now if this had been players at good spots in their career like taeja/MVP/etc then I might agree with you that sc2 is dying. Not this really means anything, but I feel like TL was having this exact sort of back and forth exchange in 2011 over BW players switching to SC2. But really any game is going to have some sort of attrition, plus cross-over need not mean an ending for one so much as it's simply cross-over. | ||
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blug
Australia623 Posts
How can you say this? Of course Destiny came out looking good, atleast he came out looking good to the people who actually were paying attention to the argument rather than just agreeing with the people with louder voices. Destiny left the call abruptly and rudely... so what? The people he was arguing with were being childish and weren't taking Destiny seriously. I would of done the exact same thing in that situation. Destiny came out looking like an intelligent respectable fellow and so did PainUser. Infact after that... I grew a new respect for PainUser as a whole. Pain User agreed with some points but disgreed with others, however, atleast he was civil and was listening to Destiny. InControl is an intelligent guy, but he handled the situation wrong. He is better than that, but he got a bit riled up. Idra was just agreeing with InControl I felt. DJWheat... he just looked like he was trying to start a big commotion to get his show more exciting. I don't even think Destiny was really arguing the point that SC2 is dying so much, but he feels like SC2s potential is so much higher and I 100% agree with him. We as a community can only do so much to help the game, while Blizzard has 100% control as to how much this game succeeds. The only thing we gain out of endorsing Blizzards current way of implementing features is more features that are substandard. It's a sad truth that Blizzard won't change their ways so easily, however, if we bitch and moan and they realize that there investments in ESports are becoming jeopardized due to dodgy game releases, then perhaps they will change their minds. Perhaps people should stop looking at this thing so grimly and stop shutting down Destiny so easily. The things he are suggesting are only good for the community, it doesn't matter whether or not his efforts are futile. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On October 29 2012 15:37 Falling wrote: Not this really means anything, but I feel like TL was having this exact sort of back and forth exchange in 2011 over BW players switching to SC2. But really any game is going to have some sort of attrition, plus cross-over need not mean an ending for one so much as it's simply cross-over. Oh I agree. I just don't think seeing players past their prime. I mean I remember the arguments of the same when some bw players were switching and it makes since if you aren't getting any results in a game for a year and you feel you can do better in a different game might is well switch then. Just don't see it as a big deal unless again it was someone like taeja/mvp/etc that were getting good results in the past 6 months if all of them started switching I might agree and that's a might that sc2 is dying :p | ||
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blug
Australia623 Posts
That's the thing, I don't think that the argument that Idra/Incontrol/DJWheat were using were in line with each other either. DJ Wheat was arguing about the fact that SC2 is a great game and only people with good tastes will enjoy it. InControl was arguing about how the current features aren't worse than sc1 features. He was arguing that SC1 features have the illusion of being better due to nostalgia. Idra was just reiterating InControl. PainUser seemed be the only one listening to Destiny and had a clue what he was arguing about. The rest of them came off as ignorant flamboyant fools. | ||
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B_Type13X2
Canada122 Posts
On October 29 2012 15:50 blug wrote: How can you say this? Of course Destiny came out looking good, atleast he came out looking good to the people who actually were paying attention to the argument rather than just agreeing with the people with louder voices. Destiny left the call abruptly and rudely... so what? The people he was arguing with were being childish and weren't taking Destiny seriously. I would of done the exact same thing in that situation. Destiny came out looking like an intelligent respectable fellow and so did PainUser. Infact after that... I grew a new respect for PainUser as a whole. Pain User agreed with some points but disgreed with others, however, atleast he was civil and was listening to Destiny. InControl is an intelligent guy, but he handled the situation wrong. He is better than that, but he got a bit riled up. Idra was just agreeing with InControl I felt. DJWheat... he just looked like he was trying to start a big commotion to get his show more exciting. I don't even think Destiny was really arguing the point that SC2 is dying so much, but he feels like SC2s potential is so much higher and I 100% agree with him. We as a community can only do so much to help the game, while Blizzard has 100% control as to how much this game succeeds. The only thing we gain out of endorsing Blizzards current way of implementing features is more features that are substandard. It's a sad truth that Blizzard won't change their ways so easily, however, if we bitch and moan and they realize that there investments in ESports are becoming jeopardized due to dodgy game releases, then perhaps they will change their minds. Perhaps people should stop looking at this thing so grimly and stop shutting down Destiny so easily. The things he are suggesting are only good for the community, it doesn't matter whether or not his efforts are futile. Except Destiny is arguing just that, he is saying that if they don't make the changes he is pretty much demanding that the game will be dead. It is hard to respect someones argument when it is that extreme. | ||
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