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I am a casual player. I left SC2 a month or two ago. I think I am like a lot of people. I like Blizzard games, I have played D2, War3, WoW and of course SC2.
I also play a lot of other games, TL2 or whatever is popular on Steam. PS3 games, etc.
There are a lot of choices for a casual gamer. I got into SC2 when it came out. I loved the community, I liked watching the games on twitch. I even paid for the first season of NASL.
But alas, my attention is elsewhere now.
I think of all the games I played War 3 has been the most similar to sc2. Because it was made by blizzard and of course it was RTS. Some of the things that kept me around so long in the War 3 scene were 1) the custom maps, 2) the clan channels I could visit, and 3) there were no leagues, just records, and if you didn't like the one you had, you could just create a new account.
The custom maps in SC2 are ok, but not great. I am not a map maker, I just consume them. Burb TD, Peon wars, and DotA custom games just seemed better in War 3.
There really is no excuse as to why the SC2 game isn't focused around Channels. In War 3 you new where to go to hang out. I have nowhere in SC2. I can't just chill in a Team Liquid Clan channel where there may be some TL players. IN War 3 I could hang out in channels where there were who I thought were godly players.
Trivia. It seems so stupid, but it game me something to do while hanging out. I had a channel for trivia, a channel for clans, a channel for my buddies, a channel for everything. The community and where to interact with others was IN THE GAME. It was not on Team liquid, or on Twitch TV, or on Skype. Everything was in game. The decentralized community of SC2 might just be a problem.
And finally. I am a casual. I am not a pro. I know 99% of Team Liquid forum posters are GMs. But I am not. I was just a plat protoss player that played about 7 games a week on average.
And you know what? right now I don't like my account. I want to start another one. And I would too if I could. I would probably come back right now if Blizzard added the functionality to start as many account names as you want. No pressure at all.
GAMES ARE SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT PLEASURE NOT PRESSURE.
Give me an account I can cheese on. That I can 4v4 on, that I don't care about. Then I will play. Scrap the whole league system. I don't want to be a plat player. War 3 was perfect. It showed your record with each race, and each type of game. No league. That's what I want. Then when I am like everyone else that is 500, I will feel better about the game, and myself.
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way to gang up on someone, and good grief djWheat, you looked like the biggest tool ever with your "ey pussy ass bitch yo" screaming
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djWheat said that SC2 with tournament organisers have paved the way for other games if it comes to streaming culture
and i agree with it.
When SC2 came out, streaming numbers were huge compared to other games, especially LoL.
For the past few years LoL grew rapidly and SC2 almost stayed at the same lvl.
Every moba game that is appealing to the casual players, has bigger viewer numbers than SC2.
So here is what boggles me and other community members:
WHY SC2 CAN'T HAVE SAME VIEWER NUMBERS??!?1
Why Blizzard doesn't do what Valve or Riot do?
We, the community are giving Blizzard ideas how to make SC2 more appealing, and Blizzard doesn't give a shit?!??!
And to say what IdrA and IncontroL that it's pointless as a community to constantly convince Blizzard to make SC2 better
because Blizzard haven't been doing anything for past 2 years??
That's like "i give up...i don't give a shit... i'm good as it is"...
Well it's allways possible to be better! If LoL is able to have so many viewers, why SC2 can't?!?
Here's what djWheat also said:
(1h 21m 55s)
http://pl.twitch.tv/onemoregametv/b/336653494
"...people are watching more games. It may not be StarCraft, but people are watching more shit..."
Twitch couldn't be more happy huh?
We, as the SC2 community, want StarCraft to be wached the most! We want our game to be most succesfull!!
And we will keep on trying to help Blizzard make SC2 better!!
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"...people are watching more games. It may not be StarCraft, but people are watching more shit..."
Twitch couldn't be more happy huh?
We, as the SC2 community, want StarCraft to be wached the most! We want our game to be most succesfull!!
And we will keep on trying to help Blizzard make SC2 better!!
But what he's saying is that there's so much content out there now that there's something for everyone. It isn't like a few years ago where if you wanted to watch a live video game there was only a few choices.
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On October 24 2012 20:48 5ukkub wrote:
Well it's allways possible to be better! If LoL is able to have so many viewers, why SC2 can't?!?
Because the core experience of Starcraft 2 is not as casual-friendly as LoL. And in this age of the internet where there are a variety of free indie games to play out on the web, the perfect custom map system will draw neither developers nor casuals to the game.
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On October 24 2012 20:53 Fueled wrote:Show nested quote +"...people are watching more games. It may not be StarCraft, but people are watching more shit..."
Twitch couldn't be more happy huh?
We, as the SC2 community, want StarCraft to be wached the most! We want our game to be most succesfull!!
And we will keep on trying to help Blizzard make SC2 better!! But what he's saying is that there's so much content out there now that there's something for everyone. It isn't like a few years ago where if you wanted to watch a live video game there was only a few choices.
But the point is that other games like LoL, Dota2 etc have more and more viewers, SC2 viewer numbers stay rougly the same.
SC2 community sees it and asks "Why SC2 can't have those viewer numbers? Can we do something about it?"
And community tries!
Destiny's approach may have been too vulgar, but he at least tries!
While IdrA and IncontroL just doesn't bother anymore and give up...
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DJWheat - The future of success of sc2 has nothing to do with whether it "paved the way" for games like LoL and Dota. Read some history bub.
Idra- "I'm getting paid a lot of money by sponsors and EG so I'm gonna keep my trap shut and not say anything too negative."
Incontrol- Aside from his constant trolling, his main argument was "SC2 is fine because there are no other games! eSports always has an RTS game!" Ok, so assuming that no other companies come out with a great RTS game in the next few years, what makes you think people are going to watch sc2 solely because it's "the only one!".
PainUser- Echoed what destiny was saying, albeit in a less high pitched and annoying way.
Destiny is right- the ball is in blizzard's court. How many of you have friends that stopped playing/watching sc2 altogether? The game is boring to watch, BNET is garbage, and the people that like custom games have a few really shitty options. It's only a matter of time before the best sc2 players leave for where the money is- LoL.
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I'm actually happy this happended cause now more people see what kind of idiots Incontrol and Idra are.
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On October 24 2012 20:59 5ukkub wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 20:53 Fueled wrote:"...people are watching more games. It may not be StarCraft, but people are watching more shit..."
Twitch couldn't be more happy huh?
We, as the SC2 community, want StarCraft to be wached the most! We want our game to be most succesfull!!
And we will keep on trying to help Blizzard make SC2 better!! But what he's saying is that there's so much content out there now that there's something for everyone. It isn't like a few years ago where if you wanted to watch a live video game there was only a few choices. But the point is that other games like LoL, Dota2 etc have more and more viewers, SC2 viewer numbers stay rougly the same. SC2 community sees it and asks "Why SC2 can't have those viewer numbers? Can we do something about it?" And community tries! Destiny's approach may have been too vulgar, but he at least tries! While IdrA and IncontroL just doesn't bother anymore and give up...
Wtf? They don't give up <.<
They are just realistic enough to try what is in THEIR possiblity. When do people finally get the main point of what Incontroll and Idra said, a way more thought out opinion than Destiny and ROOTs stuff bunched together.
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I would have said worse things if IdrA said "fuck off back to LoL then" and then incontrol congratulated him on his "burn" or whatever he said, just sayin. I'd have been more fuming than Destiny was
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On October 24 2012 20:46 MrShankly wrote:
Most of the reason that I still watch sc2 is just to follow my favourite players, if the game play was exactly the same but the players all switched, I would probably stop watching.
This.
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On October 24 2012 20:57 Kambing wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 20:48 5ukkub wrote:
Well it's allways possible to be better! If LoL is able to have so many viewers, why SC2 can't?!?
Because the core experience of Starcraft 2 is not as casual-friendly as LoL. And in this age of the internet where there are a variety of free indie games to play out on the web, the perfect custom map system will draw neither developers nor casuals to the game.
So you think it needs to stay this way? Maybe something could be done to make SC2 more casual-friendly?
Because sitting and doing nothing is THE worst approach.
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does incontrol not see what kind of a tool he comes whenever he starts his "funny voices / funny faces / sarcastic monologue" antics during debates and arguments? not funny in the slightest
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On October 24 2012 20:59 5ukkub wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 20:53 Fueled wrote:"...people are watching more games. It may not be StarCraft, but people are watching more shit..."
Twitch couldn't be more happy huh?
We, as the SC2 community, want StarCraft to be wached the most! We want our game to be most succesfull!!
And we will keep on trying to help Blizzard make SC2 better!! But what he's saying is that there's so much content out there now that there's something for everyone. It isn't like a few years ago where if you wanted to watch a live video game there was only a few choices. But the point is that other games like LoL, Dota2 etc have more and more viewers, SC2 viewer numbers stay rougly the same. SC2 community sees it and asks "Why SC2 can't have those viewer numbers? Can we do something about it?" And community tries! .
Its just a different audience that each game caters to. Like what wheat said about comparing American Idol to the other show. The other show is much better, but American Idol caters to a wider range of people. It doesn't take away the fact that the other show is great just because American Idol has more viewers.
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On October 24 2012 20:57 Kambing wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 20:48 5ukkub wrote:
Well it's allways possible to be better! If LoL is able to have so many viewers, why SC2 can't?!?
Because the core experience of Starcraft 2 is not as casual-friendly as LoL. And in this age of the internet where there are a variety of free indie games to play out on the web, the perfect custom map system will draw neither developers nor casuals to the game.
You are right, SC2 is by far not as casual-friendly as game like LoL, some ppl like the competitve like SC more, but the majority seems to prefer casual orientated games.
Which is pretty sad in my eyes, because you can't control the whole game by yourself by games like LoL.
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All of this focus on the game is unwarranted I think at least when it comes to stream numbers. Really the game only matters for huge tournaments where blizzard RTS will always be top dog anyways.
The game is not what draws viewers to a stream, its the personality playing. LoL streaming success is way more about the charisma of their pros and the reliability of their streams than difficulty and balance.
Look back to how quickly Destiny grew as a streamer during the early days. He played 12 hours a day every day. I could come home from school and count on him being there so putting him on became a part of my routine. Inconsistency kills growth.
Also he talked to his viewers. The vast majority of the time he was NOT silently playing while listening to viewers. Having conversation, either with the stream or with friends/players, makes the viewing experience far more engaging and intimate.
These are standards for the more popular MOBA community streams. I know that team games attract more social people while single player games draw antisocial hermits but this is no excuse since the problem is so obvious and punishing to pro-player pocketbooks.
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On October 24 2012 21:05 Fueled wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 20:59 5ukkub wrote:On October 24 2012 20:53 Fueled wrote:"...people are watching more games. It may not be StarCraft, but people are watching more shit..."
Twitch couldn't be more happy huh?
We, as the SC2 community, want StarCraft to be wached the most! We want our game to be most succesfull!!
And we will keep on trying to help Blizzard make SC2 better!! But what he's saying is that there's so much content out there now that there's something for everyone. It isn't like a few years ago where if you wanted to watch a live video game there was only a few choices. But the point is that other games like LoL, Dota2 etc have more and more viewers, SC2 viewer numbers stay rougly the same. SC2 community sees it and asks "Why SC2 can't have those viewer numbers? Can we do something about it?" And community tries! . Its just a different audience that each game caters to. Like what wheat said about comparing American Idol to the other show. The other show is much better, but American Idol caters to a wider range of people. It doesn't take away the fact that the other show is great just because American Idol has more viewers.
i aggree, however LoL and SC2 audience aren't that much different like in american idol and Breaking Bad case...
Here's the question:
Do you see any room for improvement in SC2 client that could appeal more to the casual player?
I do, community do, we all do!
So what are we going to do about it? Nothing, as IdrA said, or keep trying to pressure Blizzard?
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Destiny was so fucking good. He really did say everything right. Painuser is really great. Inc, Wheat and IdrA were not answering the right fuckin question. THEY were missing his argument.
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On October 24 2012 20:57 Kambing wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 20:48 5ukkub wrote:
Well it's allways possible to be better! If LoL is able to have so many viewers, why SC2 can't?!?
Because the core experience of Starcraft 2 is not as casual-friendly as LoL. And in this age of the internet where there are a variety of free indie games to play out on the web, the perfect custom map system will draw neither developers nor casuals to the game.
Making a map in WC3 was usually a much simpler way to create certain games and publish them. As a person who played DotA and other WC3 maps, I miss games such as Battleships (Was extremely popular at some point, a few clans formed around the game), Space Command (doubt many people knew of/enjoyed this, but I liked it), NOTD: AM (the community died out on this Rougelike map as WC3 grew less popular, the NOTD on SC2 by comparison is trash IMO), Warlocks (the origin of Bloodline Champions)
Even short distractions like Uther Party, Hungry Hungry Felhounds, Predator, are no longer around. I'll bet that almost no one knew that someone tried a remake of Warlocks in SC2. I personally didn't like it because acceleration worsened the game, if anything.
I've only played one custom game in SC2 that I thought was legitimately good, and that was The Star Strikers, which is a bit like soccer/football. Most good mapmakers in SC2 either work on fun maps that never see the light of day because of the arcade system. In SC2 you have to WORK to get players to test your map, and then even if those players thought it was the best map they have ever played, they can only try and host it with their 2 other friends.
The system is a complete turn-off for mapmakers and people who want to play custom games.
A lot of simple game ideas start in a map, and then can later get transformed into a full game. Look at Bloodline Champions (before it went to crap), or DotA
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this whole "we may be smaller but starcraft ist the best game" should not be the way we think. if this true, we wont benefit from being the "serenity" of esports. and if it is wrong, good luck ever changing the game for the better.
and wheat: i love your no fluff stuff, but plz call your hosts out the same way you do with your guests. hoping to come back to better shows/discussions in the future, peace out. <3
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EPT
