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On September 29 2011 04:53 Jinsho wrote:
IdrA said it himself : he can't handle turtle play from Terran or Protoss. That is his own weakness, which also concides with Zerg's weakness as a race : Zerg is weak against turtle style in the late game. I am not sure if there is any Sc2 player in the world who would dispute that, right?
The question is though, shouldn't he see to what other the zergs who don't consistently lose to these players are doing right rather than throw up his hands and call imbalance? A racial weakness doesn't mean it's imbalanced, there are racial strenghts aswell.
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On September 29 2011 05:27 Longshank wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2011 04:53 Jinsho wrote:
IdrA said it himself : he can't handle turtle play from Terran or Protoss. That is his own weakness, which also concides with Zerg's weakness as a race : Zerg is weak against turtle style in the late game. I am not sure if there is any Sc2 player in the world who would dispute that, right?
The question is though, shouldn't he see to what other the zergs who don't consistently lose to these players are doing right rather than throw up his hands and call imbalance? A racial weakness doesn't mean it's imbalanced, there are racial strenghts aswell.
Idra IMO players wrong vs turtle play (at least from what ive seen vs his terran). Nydus worms are heavily underused late game against terran players that play passive and have an immobile army. Its almost impossilbe for a terran to not make the nydus worm "go up" at one of his expansion (as there always is a place where he do not have vision), and as a zerg you can consistently try to nydus his main again again. And if get the nydus up there, and attack his production facilities it can do a lot of dmg. Idras play seems to be:
"Ok i have an advantage, let me make broodlords.... He is still not attacking, let me make more broodlord/infestor... And then he let the terran player get a good eco, take his 4th, 5th and 6th for free basically, and the terran will then be able to outproduce the zerg with ghosts and vikings.
THis is actually not a bad game design or imbalanced in anyway. Idra imo just doesn't play very well.
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On September 29 2011 06:14 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2011 05:27 Longshank wrote:On September 29 2011 04:53 Jinsho wrote:
IdrA said it himself : he can't handle turtle play from Terran or Protoss. That is his own weakness, which also concides with Zerg's weakness as a race : Zerg is weak against turtle style in the late game. I am not sure if there is any Sc2 player in the world who would dispute that, right?
The question is though, shouldn't he see to what other the zergs who don't consistently lose to these players are doing right rather than throw up his hands and call imbalance? A racial weakness doesn't mean it's imbalanced, there are racial strenghts aswell. Idra IMO players wrong vs turtle play (at least from what ive seen vs his terran). Nydus worms are heavily underused late game against terran players that play passive and have an immobile army. Its almost impossilbe for a terran to not make the nydus worm "go up" at one of his expansion (as there always is a place where he do not have vision), and as a zerg you can consistently try to nydus his main again again. And if get the nydus up there, and attack his production facilities it can do a lot of dmg. Idras play seems to be: "Ok i have an advantage, let me make broodlords.... He is still not attacking, let me make more broodlord/infestor... And then he let the terran player get a good eco, take his 4th, 5th and 6th for free basically, and the terran will then be able to outproduce the zerg with ghosts and vikings. THis is actually not a bad game design or imbalanced in anyway. Idra imo just doesn't play very well.
Have you ever watched a game above Silver? Turns out that terrans, especially Koreans, know how to position buildings to see their own entire base, and also if a terran sees that you're trying to nydus "his main again again" it's not difficult to set up one seige tank and also nydus worms cost money and also cannot be canceled. If the terran has any form of a brain the nydus should never go up, and even if it does, the "straight line stream" of units that come out are so shaky where they MIGHT do a little bit of damage but the chance that they will is quite low. BL/infestor is the only cost efficient army zergs have late game so honestly before you start trying to talk, learn the game. And if a terran ever makes ghosts they should very easily win. Thorzain's introduction to turtle mech mass ghost is ridiculously good and should never lose. Ever.
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is there an MP3 up yet? not to whine or anything.. but for a sponsored show ive found it pretty hard to get an MP3, last couple of weeks
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^ I've been trying to find it all day, I keep checking back and there's nothing. JP is showing you guys up...
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On September 29 2011 07:47 BLCabeldank wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2011 06:14 Hider wrote:On September 29 2011 05:27 Longshank wrote:On September 29 2011 04:53 Jinsho wrote:
IdrA said it himself : he can't handle turtle play from Terran or Protoss. That is his own weakness, which also concides with Zerg's weakness as a race : Zerg is weak against turtle style in the late game. I am not sure if there is any Sc2 player in the world who would dispute that, right?
The question is though, shouldn't he see to what other the zergs who don't consistently lose to these players are doing right rather than throw up his hands and call imbalance? A racial weakness doesn't mean it's imbalanced, there are racial strenghts aswell. Idra IMO players wrong vs turtle play (at least from what ive seen vs his terran). Nydus worms are heavily underused late game against terran players that play passive and have an immobile army. Its almost impossilbe for a terran to not make the nydus worm "go up" at one of his expansion (as there always is a place where he do not have vision), and as a zerg you can consistently try to nydus his main again again. And if get the nydus up there, and attack his production facilities it can do a lot of dmg. Idras play seems to be: "Ok i have an advantage, let me make broodlords.... He is still not attacking, let me make more broodlord/infestor... And then he let the terran player get a good eco, take his 4th, 5th and 6th for free basically, and the terran will then be able to outproduce the zerg with ghosts and vikings. THis is actually not a bad game design or imbalanced in anyway. Idra imo just doesn't play very well. Have you ever watched a game above Silver? Turns out that terrans, especially Koreans, know how to position buildings to see their own entire base, and also if a terran sees that you're trying to nydus "his main again again" it's not difficult to set up one seige tank and also nydus worms cost money and also cannot be canceled. If the terran has any form of a brain the nydus should never go up, and even if it does, the "straight line stream" of units that come out are so shaky where they MIGHT do a little bit of damage but the chance that they will is quite low. BL/infestor is the only cost efficient army zergs have late game so honestly before you start trying to talk, learn the game. And if a terran ever makes ghosts they should very easily win. Thorzain's introduction to turtle mech mass ghost is ridiculously good and should never lose. Ever.
You dont really understand what i wrote. Reread and think about what I say again. Posotionering of buildings are completely irrelevant. If you still dont understand what i am reading, perhaps you lack an understanding of how nydus should be used.
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I watched this show for the first time, and why the fuck idra can't shut up and let other people finish talking? It's obnoxious and rude. No matter how wrong others' arguments you think are you should have the courtesy to give them chance to fully explain themselves if you were to be treated the same.
In that sense, djWheat does a terrible job moderating. He should shut idra off when he interrupt others. Idra can talk his heart out when it's his turn.
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Hi, I apologise if this question has already been asked, but I was wondering if anyone can tell me the name of the song/tune that is played at the intro of the show? it's techno/dance-ish kind of music, kind of soothing and relaxing.
Thanks for the help!
P.S. I'm not referring to Shinichi Osawa - Electro411
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On September 29 2011 08:55 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2011 07:47 BLCabeldank wrote:On September 29 2011 06:14 Hider wrote:On September 29 2011 05:27 Longshank wrote:On September 29 2011 04:53 Jinsho wrote:
IdrA said it himself : he can't handle turtle play from Terran or Protoss. That is his own weakness, which also concides with Zerg's weakness as a race : Zerg is weak against turtle style in the late game. I am not sure if there is any Sc2 player in the world who would dispute that, right?
The question is though, shouldn't he see to what other the zergs who don't consistently lose to these players are doing right rather than throw up his hands and call imbalance? A racial weakness doesn't mean it's imbalanced, there are racial strenghts aswell. Idra IMO players wrong vs turtle play (at least from what ive seen vs his terran). Nydus worms are heavily underused late game against terran players that play passive and have an immobile army. Its almost impossilbe for a terran to not make the nydus worm "go up" at one of his expansion (as there always is a place where he do not have vision), and as a zerg you can consistently try to nydus his main again again. And if get the nydus up there, and attack his production facilities it can do a lot of dmg. Idras play seems to be: "Ok i have an advantage, let me make broodlords.... He is still not attacking, let me make more broodlord/infestor... And then he let the terran player get a good eco, take his 4th, 5th and 6th for free basically, and the terran will then be able to outproduce the zerg with ghosts and vikings. THis is actually not a bad game design or imbalanced in anyway. Idra imo just doesn't play very well. Have you ever watched a game above Silver? Turns out that terrans, especially Koreans, know how to position buildings to see their own entire base, and also if a terran sees that you're trying to nydus "his main again again" it's not difficult to set up one seige tank and also nydus worms cost money and also cannot be canceled. If the terran has any form of a brain the nydus should never go up, and even if it does, the "straight line stream" of units that come out are so shaky where they MIGHT do a little bit of damage but the chance that they will is quite low. BL/infestor is the only cost efficient army zergs have late game so honestly before you start trying to talk, learn the game. And if a terran ever makes ghosts they should very easily win. Thorzain's introduction to turtle mech mass ghost is ridiculously good and should never lose. Ever. You dont really understand what i wrote. Reread and think about what I say again. Posotionering of buildings are completely irrelevant. If you still dont understand what i am reading, perhaps you lack an understanding of how nydus should be used.
LOL okay buddy
Its almost impossilbe for a terran to not make the nydus worm "go up" at one of his expansion (as there always is a place where he do not have vision), and as a zerg you can consistently try to nydus his main again again.
Well that right there MIGHT be true if the terran is on about 5 bases and doesn't have a planetary at one of his more exposed bases.
And as Zerg... you can't "consistently" try to throw up a nydus unless you're maxed and just sitting there stockpiling money, which as a zerg 200/200 usually never happens unless multiple more bases are being established.
And then he let the terran player get a good eco, take his 4th, 5th and 6th for free basically, and the terran will then be able to outproduce the zerg with ghosts and vikings.
And if get the nydus up there, and attack his production facilities it can do a lot of dmg.
Unless the terran has ANY response at all because as you've stated, he is turtling which means he has cover of his entire base and can respond to anything quite easily... 1-2 tanks easily shuts down the ENTIRE base from nydus' going up.
"Ok i have an advantage, let me make broodlords.... He is still not attacking, let me make more broodlord/infestor... And then he let the terran player get a good eco, take his 4th, 5th and 6th for free basically, and the terran will then be able to outproduce the zerg with ghosts and vikings
Have you ever tried to break a turtle terran? Obviously the way zerg wants to trade armies is slightly less favorable then ideal, but when you throw 200/200 muta/ling/bling or 200/200 infestor/BL or any 200/200 army into a turtle terran, more then often you come out extremely bad, due to the tank spread and thors+ghosts
Also i don't know why a terran wants to outproduce a zerg with ghosts AND vikings, since ghosts by themselves shut down the entire infestor/BL army, and if the control is good enough, can shut down muta/ling/bling.
I don't really understand how you think that with vikings a nydus would ever actually go up, because as you mindlessly said terran would want vikings against BL/ infestor cause obviously fungal isn't good anymore, the terran response to seeing the nydus is re-position small amount of units due to the straight line the units come out in. Once the terran has killed the nydus and doesn't take any damage cause he's not in bronze, then he can easily bring whatever vikings he has, even thors if vikings are out, and push the overlord away and just leave the thor or 1 viking in the spot and patrol. I don't know if you understand the mechanic that vision is necessary for nydus'. Thanks to overlords, zergs can get vision. If a terran takes his vikings and clears the area around his base of overlords, no vision.
The fact that you said the terran would even WANT to mass produce vikings AND ghosts leads me to believe you think you understand the meta-game, and you also think you can speak English because the " Posotionering" of your thoughts just aren't quite there. The way you think nydus' should be used is extremely late game when zerg and a CRAZY surplus of money and in the gold league, when people don't have their entire base scouted.
perhaps you lack an understanding of how nydus should be used.
i think you really don't understand basic terran, or basic zerg, due to the fact that you really think Nydus' can be spammed endlessly (can't due to money, and the fact that you can only build one at a time with one canal) and that they will EVENTUALLY get up (which they shouldn't do to building spread and range 13 seige mode). I honestly feel like you really have attempted nydus' in gold and it works against baddies, or that you've seen IdrA do it against toss in the MID GAME, where he is also putting pressure on the front...
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On September 29 2011 10:03 usethis2 wrote:
I watched this show for the first time, and why the fuck idra can't shut up and let other people finish talking? It's obnoxious and rude. No matter how wrong others' arguments you think are you should have the courtesy to give them chance to fully explain themselves if you were to be treated the same.
In that sense, djWheat does a terrible job moderating. He should shut idra off when he interrupt others. Idra can talk his heart out when it's his turn.
I think you are waaayyy more offended then the other hosts of the show. They are all good friends.
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Its really hard to drop against heavy muta play. Doesnt mean Terran still doesn't throw drops at zerg all game long to TRY to do damage. Nukes, DTs, warp prisms - Its about forcing pressure.
Zerg can be the same. Overlord drops, nydus, burrow banelings in terrans expansions mineral lines -- All of these are risk reward situations that other races have come to accept.
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On September 29 2011 11:37 happyness wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2011 10:03 usethis2 wrote:
I watched this show for the first time, and why the fuck idra can't shut up and let other people finish talking? It's obnoxious and rude. No matter how wrong others' arguments you think are you should have the courtesy to give them chance to fully explain themselves if you were to be treated the same.
In that sense, djWheat does a terrible job moderating. He should shut idra off when he interrupt others. Idra can talk his heart out when it's his turn. I think you are waaayyy more offended then the other hosts of the show. They are all good friends.
so the OP wants it to be a debate not a discussion, unless him and his friends take turns talking, i don't know what he thinks is going to happen
and if the speaker has something more to say, he says it, and as the replier said, they are all good friends so idk why you feel like you even are allowed to get offended?
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Still no MP3 for last night?
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Also waiting for the mp 3 here
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On September 29 2011 04:45 Longshank wrote:
It's indeed a too small sample size but all numbers we have points to PvZ being a rather balanced match-up.
Idra's been whining for a long time now that that ZvP is a broken matchup in P's favor and that he can't win vs 'decent' players. Idra should ask himself why he keeps losing to these 'decent' players while other zergs do not.
What is JYP's record, who Idra claimed was a good P ?
Isn't it something like ... 100% winrate vs Z, with 10 or 11 matches played? In GSL and GSTL ? 80% in PvP, around 50% in PvT ? I wonder why ...
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On September 29 2011 19:57 aebriol wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2011 04:45 Longshank wrote:
It's indeed a too small sample size but all numbers we have points to PvZ being a rather balanced match-up.
Idra's been whining for a long time now that that ZvP is a broken matchup in P's favor and that he can't win vs 'decent' players. Idra should ask himself why he keeps losing to these 'decent' players while other zergs do not. What is JYP's record, who Idra claimed was a good P ? Isn't it something like ... 100% winrate vs Z, with 10 or 11 matches played? In GSL and GSTL ? 80% in PvP, around 50% in PvT ? I wonder why ...
It's 100% with 4 matches played(7-1) in maps. He's also at 0% vT(0-7 in maps). Small sample size is small and just shows that he's got a good PvZ at the moment. That was already established so I don't get your point. Idra has still not been playing him, nor Sage.
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Why does it take so long for Inside The Game podcasts to be posted? JP gets SOTG podcasts up within hours (sometimes) of the show airing. I like to listen to ITG, Live on 3 and SOTG together, but Live on 3 and ITG are always (at least) a week behind SOTG..
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Would be nice to know what everyone is talking about... if I had the mp3
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On September 29 2011 04:53 Jinsho wrote:
IdrA said it himself : he can't handle turtle play from Terran or Protoss. That is his own weakness, which also concides with Zerg's weakness as a race : Zerg is weak against turtle style in the late game. I am not sure if there is any Sc2 player in the world who would dispute that, right?
I think prepatch Destiny would argue that Zerg wasn't necessarily weak against a turtling Protoss.
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wheat lost his passion for esport, thats why bliptv is killing esports.
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EPT
