EPTWhy Protoss Drops Are Rare (Warp Prism Analysis) - Page 4
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Fraidnot
United States824 Posts
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dani`
Netherlands2402 Posts
On May 03 2011 07:12 AndAgain wrote: First of all, WhiteRa sometimes uses WPs (and not that often) because he likes to use special tactics. Not because he necessarily things it's that good. Second, as other have said, there are just no good droppable units. DTs and HTs can be good in late game, but using a warp prism isn't even necessary in many cases. He used Warp Prisms vs MC in the World Championships, that's not because he wanted to 'make special taktiks' I can assure you -_- | ||
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Oreo7
United States1647 Posts
I do use Warp Prisms in my play though. I think they can occasionally be good if you're going a hallu build v T wherein you already have scouting with hallu so don't need obs, and can pop a warp prism instead while your bay is building. Also good for break contains etc. | ||
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-orb-
United States5770 Posts
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Arcanne
United States1519 Posts
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Wihl
Sweden472 Posts
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CurLy[]
United States759 Posts
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archonOOid
1983 Posts
One advantage that overlords and medivacs have is that the warp prism has two modes. The first one acts just like a overlord but the second one where the warp prism acts as a pylon, protoss can reinforce a successful drop. In a sense a warp prism is a floating pylon and thus depending on the number of gateways the protoss have. A warp prism has similarities to the nydus worm and a nydus worm is more expensive than warp prism. | ||
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raf3776
United States1904 Posts
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Malpractice.248
United States734 Posts
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PhiliBiRD
United States2643 Posts
this is no different from b4 when zergs didnt use drops... now they are and they are having alot of success. still waiting to see baneling drops on mineral lines tho | ||
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DrunkApple
34 Posts
Though I respect your opinions, I do not like how you don't see other races' perspectives. From reading your thread, I can tell: 1). You are protoss 2). You don't know much about zerg 3). You don't know much about terran Quite frankly, I think 100/100 is more expansive than 200/0 because the gas is more expansive than mineral. Warp Prism has pros and cons, just like any drop of other races But, as Zerg's perspective, getting that overlord speed and drop upgrade are big investment for us. As you can see, we cannot tech up crazy fast like terran and protoss. So we need to make a wise decision and respond accordingly to whatever you are doing. It is true we get tons of dropships once the upgrades are over, but we can't JUST get those upgrades. If we blindly get those upgrades and you happen to open up with pheonix and we don't have any unit to retaliate with, WE ARE EFFED MAN | ||
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xTNodub
United States84 Posts
You already have the Robo Fac. and Bay. If you did a colossus drop in the mineral line while pushing the terran or zerg front you could get a reasonable amount of kills and keep your colossus for later. It would be pretty risky walking your colossus alone on the map to get picked up by the WP, and you could skip colossus range for the time if you wanted the speed upgrade for the WP. This could work with a 6 gate production, but an eventual tech switch would have to be made. | ||
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Roxy
Canada753 Posts
On top of that.. how much damage can 4 zealots do when compared to banelings or marines? Zealots are slower than workers and are melee - this means that if the opponent sees a zealot drop, they will run away. Vs a terran, they will be kited to death dealing no damage. Vs zerg, they may kill 2 zerglings. DPS wise, you will not see people dropping stalkers, and it is too risky to drop a colosus. Archon drop would be the same pitfall of a zealot drop. This leaves two viable units - dark templars and high templars. With the HT nerf, we dont see this unit as much any more. It would be viable to drop ht if they had storm ready, but the problem is that the likelihood of them spotting your templars, or even pulling SCV or drones out of the storm before they die is high. DTs can walk to their destination just as easy as they can be dropped in most cases. Also, the warp prism is almost certain to die if you drop on a terran (as if you are on robo tech, they should have vikings). zerg inherantly has overlords all over the map to spot for drops (unless you have phoenixes, but at the point in the game where you have robo-tech and stargate-tech any drop from a protoss should do negligable damage. Because they will see you coming, you have lost the elemtn of surprise (which is the whole point of drops). Protoss has 3 different tech trees. Terran and zerg tech trees are very linear which opens up these dropping units along the way anyways. If a protoss decides to open with twilight or stargate build.. they will not have robo until late game (at which point, sacrifcing $400 to kill $300 of workers does nothign because they already have 80 workers and probably eitehr want the supply freed up (or can re-supply in one production round). | ||
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Cajun2k1
Netherlands399 Posts
On May 03 2011 07:18 -orb- wrote: One minor point is that I noticed you said the zerg overlords just provide food in the secondary effects section, but actually they can drop creep which is insanely good for drops since all of a sudden all of your units are much faster in your opponent's base, not to mention the creep preventing buildings from being built/etc The amount of creep placed is pretty negligible, depending on the size of the drop. The creepspread isn't that widespread as you want it to be as the zerg. So the speed isn't affected that much, because there'll be buildings in the way anyway. And as a Terran/Protoss you want to deal with the units first before setting up your buildings again. So the creep isn't that much of a deal. On May 03 2011 07:14 Fraidnot wrote: Why is there a need to encourage drops? Drop play is one of the strongest strategies in the game, if protoss players aren't taking advantage of it that's a mistake not a problem with the dropship or the metagame. The problem with this is that there's little to no need for protoss players to change their playstyle because it's already so succesful. It looks like the way zerg are using drops now, will force a change in toss' 'rush to the deathball' mentality. | ||
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Reborn8u
United States1761 Posts
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ypslala
Burma545 Posts
On May 03 2011 06:54 CanadianSCgamer wrote: The balance part of the discussion is that currently in SC2, the macro mechanics of each race are almost EQUALLY strong, so when unhindered, all 3 can macro to 200/200 fairly quickly. There comes the problem when 200/200 armies of each race ARE NOT equal in strength. Zerg and Terrans need to do something "extra" to gain those advantages lost in total army strength. . a 200/200 bio army + medvacs/vikings against colossus/storms/chargelots/blinkstalker is not equal in strengh? right. add some ghosts, ravens, mech/thors. ghost tech is quick and cheap and a killer against protoss. zerg has it way harder, i agree in this point. | ||
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progeny
Sweden43 Posts
ive been using it with speed lately to ferry around my templars, but without speed its pretty dead(slow and fragile). Zealot drop with fast prism is great late game, just deploy it somewhere out of sight warp in 4 zealots and pick up and drop off in enemy mineral line and fly away before they can react. Speed is in my opinion crucial to get for the prism if your going to use it more then for some all in or 1 time use. The trick is to find the time and money to get the speed upgrade. | ||
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Cajun2k1
Netherlands399 Posts
On May 03 2011 07:23 Roxy wrote: Assuming overlords have speed (which in all honesty, should be a staple when they are on lair tech), prisms are the slowest transport On top of that.. how much damage can 4 zealots do when compared to banelings or marines? Zealots are slower than workers and are melee - this means that if the opponent sees a zealot drop, they will run away. Vs a terran, they will be kited to death dealing no damage. Vs zerg, they may kill 2 zerglings. DPS wise, you will not see people dropping stalkers, and it is too risky to drop a colosus. Archon drop would be the same pitfall of a zealot drop. This leaves two viable units - dark templars and high templars. With the HT nerf, we dont see this unit as much any more. It would be viable to drop ht if they had storm ready, but the problem is that the likelihood of them spotting your templars, or even pulling SCV or drones out of the storm before they die is high. DTs can walk to their destination just as easy as they can be dropped in most cases. Also, the warp prism is almost certain to die if you drop on a terran (as if you are on robo tech, they should have vikings). zerg inherantly has overlords all over the map to spot for drops (unless you have phoenixes, but at the point in the game where you have robo-tech and stargate-tech any drop from a protoss should do negligable damage. Because they will see you coming, you have lost the elemtn of surprise (which is the whole point of drops). Protoss has 3 different tech trees. Terran and zerg tech trees are very linear which opens up these dropping units along the way anyways. If a protoss decides to open with twilight or stargate build.. they will not have robo until late game (at which point, sacrifcing $400 to kill $300 of workers does nothign because they already have 80 workers and probably eitehr want the supply freed up (or can re-supply in one production round). I have to disagree with the overlord speed being a staple when you're on lairtech. Because it's still 100/100 resources, which could be spent otherwise on a muta or 4 roaches (if you only count the gas ofcourse). You can use the WP with DT's to circumvent detection. And you're just plain wrong with the assumption that zerg drops are along the tech tree anyway. Overlord drops is a pretty heavy investment for zerg. About zealot drops, if the workers run away, this means that they've just missed mining time, making your harass succesful, it's a wrong assumption that whenever you drop that you have to kill workers for it to be succesful, using a WP mineral line harass in conjunction with aggression at the front is one way to go for example. | ||
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thebole1
Serbia126 Posts
i think they should change cost of warp prisma... i think it should be 150 minerals... and maby i dont know how much sec you need to build em but that also shoud be nerfed... drops and positioning made game to be interesting to whatch ... so if everybody use it (zerg terran ) whay not protoss two... i agree that toss do now wery good but with or without drops ... but that show that they need to be nerfed in some way..dethball is brute strenght...and sc is game thet plenty of staf shouldt be based on brute strenght there should be more versitality...in gameplay... | ||
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