EPTWhy Protoss Drops Are Rare (Warp Prism Analysis) - Page 19
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ODKStevez
Ireland1225 Posts
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On May 03 2011 06:49 FreezerJumps wrote: Transport capacity is based on unit size, not supply. 8 lings, 8 marines, 4 zealots, 2 immortals, etc. I'm pretty sure colossi and thors aren't 8 supply. I think the main problem is that the warp prism doesn't really have a passive ability, as medivacs and overlords do. As such, your warp prism is only useful when you're paying direct attention to it. Neither Overlords nor Medivacs can "create units" below them. On May 03 2011 06:50 McCain wrote: I need to echo this point which OP didn't touch on. Also, colossi drops are not only not as effective as you would think, but also put the toss at a much larger risk because the Colossus is very much the center of the Protoss army. The risk/reward ratio compared to reaver drops in SC1 is skewed for the worse. Sure the Gateway units cant do Stim attacks on a Nexus or Banelings bomb a mineral line, but that doesnt mean a few Chargelots or Stalkers cant do serious damage and be annoying enough to cause an opponent to pull a large part of his army back. Especially against Terrans this would be useful and the ability to warp in units is rather powerful. Killing a terrans addons on the production facilities slows him down soooo much and sniping the one Roach Warren a Zerg has can easily screw up their army composition for a minute or two after an engagement. Just use it like this: 1. Engage the enemies army and kill half their stuff. 2. While you are losing some units you warp in some gateway units in your opponents base to harrass and kill production facilities (tech building for Zerg, addons for Terrans). On May 03 2011 06:51 Mashmed wrote: If you upgrade your warp prism it is the fastest of the 3 supportunits and even before upgrade the Warp prism and the medivac is still faster than an upgraded overlord. Something you also failed to consider is the fact that overlords require 2 upgrades to be useful. So the warp prism is not as useless as you make it out to be. Considering that overlord drops cost 200/200 why can't a protoss invest in an extra robotics to focus on warp prisms? Also, the fact that the warp prism scales with the amount of gateways you have I would say is rather awesome. I would gladly swap my amount of overlords for the chance to morph my overlords into nydus networks for free. Obviously because "its too expensive" to have a spare Robotics for Warp Prisms and Observers ... said in the same whiney voice we always hear from Zerg. ---- The whole point is that arguments about "X, Y, Z being too expensive" only apply when it comes to precisely timed and rushed game plans. Once the first engagement is over a certain "random element" enters the gameplay because you can never predict how much stuff you have left over after the battle and then you need to "improvise" instead of following the cooking recipe. Thats when the time for these "too expensive techs" has come. Zerg sometimes complain about not having a lot of options, but ignoring drops, Nydus Networks and burrow tech is a sign of not using everything in the arsenal. The same applies to Protoss and Warp Prisms and Motherships. | ||
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Albrithe
Canada187 Posts
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SpaNkinG
Turkey89 Posts
I mean if Blizz would combine these 2 Upgrades to one they'd be used more often in my humble opinion! They could increase a bit the costs as if u'd do one upgrade like obs speed is 100/100 and prism speed aswel , i guess( not sure lol^^ ) and they they could do it for a price of 150/150 and decrease the Research time of that Obs/Prism upgrade a bit! What do u think about that ? | ||
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tdt
United States3179 Posts
When HT had Amulet you saw them more. Because you could just risk WP and not a WP full of HT's with energy, and warp in a storm on some harvesters, other than that they are of limited use compared to other options. | ||
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Juanald
United States354 Posts
On May 06 2011 20:39 SpaNkinG wrote: what they could maybe add or in other words to fusion is the observer and warp-prism upgrade! I mean if Blizz would combine these 2 Upgrades to one they'd be used more often in my humble opinion! They could increase a bit the costs as if u'd do one upgrade like obs speed is 100/100 and prism speed aswel , i guess( not sure lol^^ ) and they they could do it for a price of 150/150 and decrease the Research time of that Obs/Prism upgrade a bit! What do u think about that ? im sold this is a wonderful idea also if t hey combined blink and charge like stim effects both maraders and marines. would be nice to be able to cloak the warmp prism too but i doubt that will happen anytime soon LOL peace | ||
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SpaNkinG
Turkey89 Posts
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SurroundSound
106 Posts
specially if he snizziped my pylos | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
Please. | ||
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
The way it is for Protoss, Colossus/Observers and immortals play such important roles, creating Warp-Prisms out of Robotics is like a Mech Terran having to create Medivacs out of Tech Lab factories. If they moved it to Stargate tech, it would get a lot more use | ||
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Piy
Scotland3152 Posts
Maybe I'm wrong, but they're difficult to deal with and only cost minerals for P. | ||
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mutantmagnet
United States3807 Posts
WP have better base acceleration. WP aren't capped by their cargo capacity because they can warp in. Robo Facility in SC2 is cheaper than BW. WP shields regen crushes BW. In all other respects they are equal. What happened is that the fundamental gameplay interactions screwed over WP. In BW you didn't build too many marines unless you went deep six, because reaver and templar made them obsolete. You didn't want to get goliaths until protoss acquired carriers and if you had a game plan that hinged in shuttle sniping you usually spent resources to get a wraith instead. In SC2 marines are the backbone of the army. You can't drop them like you could vulture tanks. Colossus simply don't work like reavers in low numbers which is what made shuttles viable. Massive number of colossus forces vikings so WP window of opportunity to be the most useful is vary narrow compared to the shuttle. Shuttle play PVZ wasn't as well rounded as it was in PvT but it existed even with the threat of scourge because zerg army was too mobile and reavers in low numbers were too powerful not to be employed. WP should exist in PvZ but hiding pylons with probes is cheaper resource wise and usually no different APM wise than WP play. Protoss want to build Colossus in high numbers which has higher priority over making even a single WP because Colossus do get sniped too frequently in this matchup. In BW PvP you need shuttles with your reavers. The current thinking in SC2 PVP is that you don't need WP for anything. But let's keep in mind patch 1.3 will throw a wrench into Warp gate play which has dominated the outcomes in PVP. So we will see whether or not WP can be explored as a useful tool. | ||
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rO_Or
United States306 Posts
On May 06 2011 21:11 Whitewing wrote: I want an upgrade to allow deployed warp prisms to be mobile shield batteries. Please. Really? Warp prisms have insane potential that really hasn't been explored yet at all. Before protoss start clamoring for buffs they really need to experiment with the unit first. With the speed upgrade they are the fastest of all the transports. With their dual function as a pylon they can deploy more units than medivacs or overlords (potentially limitless). Something that has rarely been used against me but is insanely effective is templar drops. No other drop, including baneling drops can dish out as much damage to a mineral line as this. Many top level toss (Whitera, Socke, Minigun and Tyler come to mind) have showcased that even a single warp prisms can be extremely powerful if utilized correctly. All of these players have shown different ways to effectively include warp prisms into their builds and game play. Warp prisms build very quickly, even quicker with chronoboost and building one really doesn't cut into your collosus production as you usually want the range upgrade first anyways. I would argue the real reason we don't see the warp prism used much isn't because of any weakness or inefficiency but with the strength of the protoss deathball there really hasn't been incentive for protoss to try anything different. Why try to execute APM dependent drops when you can just mass up an unkillable army? | ||
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djdoodoo
United Kingdom192 Posts
On May 03 2011 06:43 FatkiddsLag wrote: im going to start making another robo just to pump out warp prisms I'd thumbs this up if I could. Drops are a real bitch. Also I think protoss the best drops are dt, 4 zealot drops or a high templar drop behind the mineral line. The idea is to get in and out with the warp prison anyway. | ||
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rO_Or
United States306 Posts
On May 06 2011 21:34 djdoodoo wrote: I'd thumbs this up if I could. Drops are a real bitch. Also I think protoss the best drops are dt, 4 zealot drops or a high templar drop behind the mineral line. The idea is to get in and out with the warp prison anyway. Since when? Imagine a single warp prism being used to execute a 2 pronged attack. Attack with your main army at one location while a warp prism sneaks to another location and starts warping in units from any number of gateways. As I said before, the warp prism isn't as hindered as the other transports in the number or variety of units it can deploy. You could drop a collosus and warp in 10 gateway units from a single prism. I have never really seen a protoss try to execute it but I fear I may have just shed light on a ridiculously powerful and effective strategy for toss to utilize. | ||
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Farkinator
United States283 Posts
Basically, if you get speed shuttles and put immortals in them, you're pretty much guaranteed damage against the other player. It's just a matter of deciding when you're done making colossus apparently. | ||
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rO_Or
United States306 Posts
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SYNC_qx
Germany197 Posts
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gillon
Sweden1578 Posts
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Ruscour
5233 Posts
EDIT: Didn't realise that a guy above me already came up with this. Good to hear I'm not the only one who thinks it'd be cool! | ||
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