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Massive units are not affected by concussive shells. If you think they are, you are wrong.
It's SPORE crawlers that are being changed, not SPINE. Please read carefully. |
On April 26 2011 20:57 Meldrath wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 20:41 Qzy wrote:
Salvage resource return reduced from 100% to 75%.
Try this blizz:
Salvage resource return reduced from 100% to 15%.
75% is still way too much. Nice balance suggestion while were at it lets make immortals warpin units again? Please refrain from making bad balance suggestions. What you said = Bad.
i like how the Terrans are complaining about the salvage nerf when this is a predominately toss patch. + Show Spoiler +and salvage was retarded as fuck
stay classy Terrans~~
also, whats with the banner saying that massive units arent affected by Concussive shells, but everyone else saying they are.
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The warptech nerf had to happen. Guess Protoss cannot do 4-5 warpgate rush anymore. On the bright side the units from normal gate comes out faster which makes 6 pool harder to do.
Also Protoss can actually defend early game without rushing to warpgate, aka roach rush won't be as hard to stop anymore. sentries that are chronoboosted will come out wickedly fast so good luck with the roach allin lol.
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United States17 Posts
The zealot change will do nothing in ZvP. Hatch before pool is NOT viable in the MU as it is. The hatch can EASILY be pylon blocked (even 13 hatch now) and can EASILY be cannoned out. People who are allowing zergs to hatch first are just giving them the advantage they want. Before you flame me, I am a zerg player. I seriously always wondered why other zergs still try to 13/15 hatch. If I'm wrong, please show me the light. I challenge you.
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2 gate close positions strong enough vs pool first. Zerg qq
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Protoss players will pray a lot for Colossus before stim timing. Blizzard needs to understand once and for all the problem with PvZ late game is because the s**** Tier 2 Zerg units. Stop touching Terran and Protoss 
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On April 27 2011 06:27 LaZaZiO wrote:
The zealot change will do nothing in ZvP. Hatch before pool is NOT viable in the MU as it is. The hatch can EASILY be pylon blocked (even 13 hatch now) and can EASILY be cannoned out. People who are allowing zergs to hatch first are just giving them the advantage they want. Before you flame me, I am a zerg player. I seriously always wondered why other zergs still try to 13/15 hatch. If I'm wrong, please show me the light. I challenge you.
I agree, compared to all the other tactics protoss can do to stop hatch and force spawning pool, the 2 gateway is the easiest to defend against.
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On April 27 2011 06:26 Fir3fly wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 20:57 Meldrath wrote:On April 26 2011 20:41 Qzy wrote:
Salvage resource return reduced from 100% to 75%.
Try this blizz:
Salvage resource return reduced from 100% to 15%.
75% is still way too much. Nice balance suggestion while were at it lets make immortals warpin units again? Please refrain from making bad balance suggestions. What you said = Bad. i like how the Terrans are complaining about the salvage nerf when this is a predominately toss patch. + Show Spoiler +and salvage was retarded as fuck stay classy Terrans~~ also, whats with the banner saying that massive units arent affected by Concussive shells, but everyone else saying they are.
Stay classy zergs, you're getting another free buff so feel free to whine?
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the only gripe i kind of have with this patch is the ghost change, i feel like the ghost needs a nerf in some department
(seeing how strong it is versus ht's -and most of the toss army- and infestors,
and being better than the other casters by virtue of snipe+cloak -vs. zerg- and especially cloak -against both zerg and toss,
not to mention i believe unquestionably easier to use due to the amazing synergy of its higher health, cloak, and emp's aoe
on top of its superior synergy with the army comp it is mostly used and designed to work with, the bio ball)
if anything, not a buff.
admittedly, this may not be a buff but an even rebalancing since this will cut down further on the production of other bio units, mainly marines. though by the time ghosts are out terran should have a steady overflow of minerals incoming, so that argument might be null.
interesting change, same as the warpgate modification, it remains to be seen how they will play out.
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On April 27 2011 06:27 LaZaZiO wrote:
The zealot change will do nothing in ZvP. Hatch before pool is NOT viable in the MU as it is. The hatch can EASILY be pylon blocked (even 13 hatch now) and can EASILY be cannoned out. People who are allowing zergs to hatch first are just giving them the advantage they want. Before you flame me, I am a zerg player. I seriously always wondered why other zergs still try to 13/15 hatch. If I'm wrong, please show me the light. I challenge you.
Fast expands, for any race, are always a calculated risk. Zerg just needs that expo earlier than other races for the increased production, in addition to relying less on building placement, so it makes more sense to try it. On large maps, hatch first is even more of a good idea.
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On April 27 2011 05:58 Reborn8u wrote:
I just played about 15 games of pvp on the ptr with a bunch of strats, while it is true that 4 gate can now be held by 3 gate robo. Every game is decided by colossus. Whoever expands first looses even when you're ahead. Whoever has the better colossus count on 1 base wins. That's pretty much how every game went.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't a DT rush hit before a 4 gate now? Making a DT-based Archon opening better? This is theory, but Archons are tough enough for Colossi to kill that a DT expand->Archon BlinkStalker build seems somewhat viable. I'll have to go crunch some numbers, but I'm thinking DT openings may be the future of PvP
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On April 27 2011 06:28 StarscreamG1 wrote:Protoss players will pray a lot for Colossus before stim timing. Blizzard needs to understand once and for all the problem with PvZ late game is because the s**** Tier 2 Zerg units. Stop touching Terran and Protoss
i can't tell what you were saying exactly, but if you were trying to say that T2 zerg is not good, you are wrong
T2 zerg absolutely destroy T1 and T2 protoss.. T3 is the only viable option protoss has vs zerg.
Roaches are faster, do more damage, and are cheaper than stalkers
Burrowed roaches heal about as fast as damage can be dealt to them
Hydras do more DPS than stalkers but without the insane overkill
Zerglings are also > stalkers
The onyl thing on that list that zealots are better than are zerglings.
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United States128 Posts
On April 27 2011 06:15 Kortosis wrote:
Infestors should have been Nerfed. Essentially a storm you cant run away from, so hard to deal with
I don't understand why people say things like this.
Fungal Growth is much weaker than Storm. 36 damage over 4 seconds (46.8 for armored) of Fungal compared to 80 damage over 4 seconds of Storm.
Yes, you can't get out of Fungal. That's the point. You also can't stop the effect of Concussive Shells. Stating what a skill does doesn't make it broken. Fungalled units can also still fight.
Fungal and Storm can't really be directly compared as they cause different reactions. If your units get Stormed, you have to run away ASAP--if not you take huge amounts of damage, but running away gives your opponent more time and lets him get better unit positioning. If your units get Fungalled, you want to stay at least for the duration of the Fungal, as Fungaled units can still fight. Running away would just make them get picked off by a huge army. Fungal almost forces you to engage, often in a way you don't want to.
No plays have been shown by any player where Infestors are a staple, scary unit that is extremely difficult to deal with.
As of now, there are no powerful Infestor timings that builds have to be tweaked around.
If there were timings, no one has tried any builds specifically designed to deal with Infestors--but this is an irrelevant point because Infestors have not gotten that prevalent yet.
Infestors can be EMPed and Feedbacked like the other spell casters. All of these spells have similar range so their direct interaction with each other is pretty balanced. Sure, ghost EMP has slightly more range than feedback, but with proper spread, other units in the mix, and the threat of using a different spell like Storm or Neural Parasite, the interactions are balanced.
Statements like, "I think X should be nerfed, it's really powerful, it's like this but better, and it's hard to deal with," don't help anyone much. It's just personal opinion--I could say that about almost any unit in this game.
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On April 27 2011 06:32 Roxy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 06:28 StarscreamG1 wrote:Protoss players will pray a lot for Colossus before stim timing. Blizzard needs to understand once and for all the problem with PvZ late game is because the s**** Tier 2 Zerg units. Stop touching Terran and Protoss i can't tell what you were saying exactly, but if you were trying to say that T2 zerg is not good, you are wrong T2 zerg absolutely destroy T1 and T2 protoss.. T3 is the only viable option protoss has vs zerg.
Aren't colossi tier 2? They pretty much rape everything Z can throw at them, if they're supported well.
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Protoss and Terran do not have "tiers" comparable to zerg's. In any case, the whole 'tier n+1 must be better than tier n' concept is a flawed way of thinking about starcraft; I can't understand why these conversations still happen.
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On April 27 2011 06:33 [Avarice] wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 06:15 Kortosis wrote:
Infestors should have been Nerfed. Essentially a storm you cant run away from, so hard to deal with I don't understand why people say things like this. Fungal Growth is much weaker than Storm. 36 DPS over 4 seconds (46.8 DPS for armored) of Fungal compared to 80 DPS over 4 seconds of Storm.
Oh god it hurts. DPS = damage per second. Damage = damage. it does 36 damage, not dps.
Storm is better as a damage spell always fungals benefit (only benefit over storm) is the hold.
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On April 27 2011 06:34 lowercase wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 06:32 Roxy wrote:On April 27 2011 06:28 StarscreamG1 wrote:Protoss players will pray a lot for Colossus before stim timing. Blizzard needs to understand once and for all the problem with PvZ late game is because the s**** Tier 2 Zerg units. Stop touching Terran and Protoss i can't tell what you were saying exactly, but if you were trying to say that T2 zerg is not good, you are wrong T2 zerg absolutely destroy T1 and T2 protoss.. T3 is the only viable option protoss has vs zerg. Aren't colossi tier 2? They pretty much rape everything Z can throw at them, if they're supported well.
Collosus is Tier 3
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On April 27 2011 06:32 Roxy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 06:28 StarscreamG1 wrote:Protoss players will pray a lot for Colossus before stim timing. Blizzard needs to understand once and for all the problem with PvZ late game is because the s**** Tier 2 Zerg units. Stop touching Terran and Protoss i can't tell what you were saying exactly, but if you were trying to say that T2 zerg is not good, you are wrong T2 zerg absolutely destroy T1 and T2 protoss.. T3 is the only viable option protoss has vs zerg. Roaches are faster, do more damage, and are cheaper than stalkers Burrowed roaches heal about as fast as damage can be dealt to them Hydras do more DPS than stalkers but without the insane overkill Zerglings are also > stalkers The onyl thing on that list that zealots are better than are zerglings.
Aren't you forgetting Immortals, voidray, sentries, or do you count those a tier3, as in you can get them as the same time as collosi/carriers/templars?
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On April 27 2011 06:33 [Avarice] wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 06:15 Kortosis wrote:
Infestors should have been Nerfed. Essentially a storm you cant run away from, so hard to deal with Fungal Growth is much weaker than Storm. 36 DPS over 4 seconds (46.8 DPS for armored) of Fungal compared to 80 DPS over 4 seconds of Storm.
No, it's 80 damage over 4 seconds for storm, making it 20 DPS, versus 9 DPS for fungal (more v. armor).
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On April 27 2011 06:34 lowercase wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 06:32 Roxy wrote:On April 27 2011 06:28 StarscreamG1 wrote:Protoss players will pray a lot for Colossus before stim timing. Blizzard needs to understand once and for all the problem with PvZ late game is because the s**** Tier 2 Zerg units. Stop touching Terran and Protoss i can't tell what you were saying exactly, but if you were trying to say that T2 zerg is not good, you are wrong T2 zerg absolutely destroy T1 and T2 protoss.. T3 is the only viable option protoss has vs zerg. Aren't colossi tier 2? They pretty much rape everything Z can throw at them, if they're supported well.
colosi are tier 3 and lose to all teir 3 zerg units
T2 units are good enough against T3 zerg units.. unfortunately T2 protoss units are not so good vs T2 zerg units
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United States17 Posts
On April 27 2011 06:31 lowercase wrote:
Fast expands, for any race, are always a calculated risk. Zerg just needs that expo earlier than other races for the increased production, in addition to relying less on building placement, so it makes more sense to try it. On large maps, hatch first is even more of a good idea.
Is it not true that forge FE is more viable on larger maps as well? Forge FE will just lead to cannon out. 21 expo is fast enough for zerg and a hell of a lot safer. If you fail at your FE as zerg you are just further delaying your expo because in the end your pool was delayed as well. It only makes sense to get lings out before you try to expo. If you don't you're throwing the advantage away to the toss when your hatch gets force cancelled. Plus you can't apply any pressure if you are walled in your main unless you go for an all in nydus. How obvious will that be to a good toss player?
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EPT
