EPTPatch 1.3.3 PTR - Page 100
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Massive units are not affected by concussive shells. If you think they are, you are wrong. It's SPORE crawlers that are being changed, not SPINE. Please read carefully. | ||
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DoomsVille
Canada4885 Posts
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Aequos
Canada606 Posts
On April 27 2011 06:34 lowercase wrote: Aren't colossi tier 2? They pretty much rape everything Z can throw at them, if they're supported well. By the Tier system, Colossi (w/o Extended Lance) are equal to HT without Storm, DT, or Carriers w/o Gravitron Catapault. They are all T3, and roughly equivalent to Ultralisks. With those upgrades, those units become T3.5, equal to Brood Lords. The tier system is badly outdated in SC, and really only works for Terran (and even then has exceptions). I'd suggest not using it as a measure of unit strength. | ||
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Roxy
Canada753 Posts
On April 27 2011 06:36 Integra wrote: Aren't you forgetting Immortals, voidray, sentries, or do you count those a tier3, as in you can get them as the same time as collosi/carriers/templars? Roaches for cost are better than immortals Zergligns are better than immortals Hydras are better than immortals Hydras can kill void rays (and any T1/T2 unit for cost) Zergling/Roach not comparable to voids as can not attack them. I would not get voids vs zerglings though. and we can see from TSL that mondragonw as able to beat mass voids with roaches sentreis are good for creating positional benefits, but do damage = to wet noodle slapping you across the face | ||
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`Forte
United States128 Posts
On April 27 2011 06:36 PrinceXizor wrote: Oh god it hurts. DPS = damage per second. Damage = damage. it does 36 damage, not dps. Storm is better as a damage spell always fungals benefit (only benefit over storm) is the hold. Sorry, not sure why I messed that up because that's a pet peeve of mine too LOL. What's with the "T1 vs. T2 vs. T3" arguments? I seriously think that people who bring those things up never watch any StarCraft matches ever because people argue about situations that never happen. "Oh, Zerg's T3 is better, Brood Lords and Ultras are way better than Colossi and Carriers!" "Roaches are better than Stalkers and are more mobile and regen a lot of HP when burrowed, and Zerglings are good against Stalkers too unless they have Zealots but my stuff's cheaper!" Not sure what games you're playing where you see only no-blink no-micro no-support Stalkers vs. burrow, tunneling claw, upgraded Roaches. Also don't understand why people think, if a unit beats another unit in a straight up fight, the first unit is better. As if Stalkers are ever used for other purposes (like shooting up lol) than fighting Roaches. "Tier" arguments make no sense. On April 27 2011 06:38 DoomsVille wrote: They won't nerf infestors this quickly. They just buffed them. And it's not like they are completely broken to the point where they need to be nerfed immediately. They probably wont deal with infestors until 1.4. What game are you playing where Infestors are broken? "Well, they seem good and they're hard to deal with," doesn't mean anything. When Infestors get to the level of Flux Vanes Void-Rays or 5-rax Reaper (as in pros use them every game and there are timings where they are extremely hard to stop) then they should be considered as possibly overpowered. Right now, Infestors aren't close to being a problem for anyone. | ||
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Raid
United States398 Posts
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Antpile
United States213 Posts
On April 27 2011 06:41 Roxy wrote: sentreis are good for creating positional benefits, but do damage = to wet noodle slapping you across the face Aren't sentries and stalkers tier 1.5 anyway, if we're getting technical? But what gets me is that you throw sentries onto the end of your post like they aren't incredibly powerful units (especially ZvP). | ||
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Integra
Sweden5626 Posts
On April 27 2011 06:41 Roxy wrote: Roaches for cost are better than immortals Zergligns are better than immortals Hydras are better than immortals Hydras can kill void rays (and any T1/T2 unit for cost) Zergling/Roach not comparable to voids as can not attack them. I would not get voids vs zerglings though. and we can see from TSL that mondragonw as able to beat mass voids with roaches sentreis are good for creating positional benefits, but do damage = to wet noodle slapping you across the face That's funny because I've beaten a pure roach army every time I've gone mass immortals, I can't recall a single game against zerg or as zerg where a pure roach army beat a protoss army that had the majority of immortals in it. Immortals also kill hydras pretty dammn well. this gets even worse if Protoss mixes in a few sentries with guardian shield. | ||
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Mommas Boy
Canada144 Posts
blizz just did a whole PTR on them and they just buffed them and you guys suddenly want a nerf? yo crazy. zerg is allowed to have some AOE damage ya know. | ||
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maartendq
Belgium3115 Posts
On April 27 2011 05:58 Mykill wrote: well bunkers are now taxed  darn that starcraft government. Well, we should have known that the confederation would have discovered our devious little plan before too long... It seems they want in on the lucrative bunker insurance business.. | ||
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Integra
Sweden5626 Posts
On April 27 2011 06:51 maartendq wrote: Well, we should have known that the confederation would have discovered our devious little plan before too long... It seems they want in on the lucrative bunker insurance business.. They finally understood they would not make any money with the "100% refund guarantee at any time" policy | ||
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Retgery
Canada1229 Posts
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Roxy
Canada753 Posts
On April 27 2011 06:49 Integra wrote: That's funny because I've beaten a pure roach army every time I've gone mass immortals, I can't recall a single game against zerg or as zerg where a pure roach army beat a protoss army that had the majority of immortals in it. Immortals also kill hydras pretty dammn well. this gets even worse if Protoss mixes in a few sentries with guardian shield. may I ask what league you are in? because if you go mass immortal and they switch to lings or mutas, you are pretty screwed. immortal/stalker/ht was an alright strategy back before templars were turned into fodder, but this strategy is nearly non-existant now Im not saying roaches are incredibly powerful at teh 20 minute mark, im talking about the mid game attacks where you are prevented from taking a 3rd and before you have colosus out. Roaches can come in and snipe whatever building they want and then burrow to run away from the FFs Roaches give complete map control to the zerg and you cannot move out until you have at least 3 collosus with range and an obs and enough fodder to prevent them from sniping the colosus roaches are very effective if they keep sending in suicide squads to take out what units you have. first attack will be maybe 12 roaches vs 12 stalker/sentry.. then 8 roaches vs the remaining 8 stalker/sentry.. then 10 raoches vs 4 of what was left plus 4 warping in... then 12 roaches vs the 6 left of that 8 and then by the time they send their 4th wave you are screwed | ||
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FlamingTurd
United States1059 Posts
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Integra
Sweden5626 Posts
On April 27 2011 06:55 Roxy wrote: may I ask what league you are in? because if you go mass immortal and they switch to lings or mutas, you are pretty screwed. immortal/stalker/ht was an alright strategy back before templars were turned into fodder, but this strategy is nearly non-existant now Im not saying roaches are incredibly powerful at teh 20 minute mark, im talking about the mid game attacks where you are prevented from taking a 3rd and before you have colosus out. Roaches can come in and snipe whatever building they want and then burrow to run away from the FFs Roaches give complete map control to the zerg and you cannot move out until you have at least 3 collosus with range and an obs and enough fodder to prevent them from sniping the colosus roaches are very effective if they keep sending in suicide squads to take out what units you have. first attack will be maybe 12 roaches vs 12 stalker/sentry.. then 8 roaches vs the remaining 8 stalker/sentry.. then 10 raoches vs 4 of what was left plus 4 warping in... then 12 roaches vs the 6 left of that 8 and then by the time they send their 4th wave you are screwed During Beta I was in diamond, ended up ranked 2 or 3 in my division as Terran, Then played Protoss and basically 4-5 warpgated myself to diamond again, After that I switched between protoss and Zerg allot, kept me in the diamond league top 50, when masters got introduced I got into that as well. After season 1 I ended up top 200 in europe, (top 196 according to sc2rankings.com) I'm now focusing on Zerg, I'm *only* top 10 diamond though due to not being able to play as much. What you just talked about is not a sign of protoss T2 being weaker, it's just you meeting better players. There are plenty of protoss players that counters what you just described just fine with immortal/voidray/pheonix gameplay, along with photon cannon support. You just need good scouting and see when it comes. | ||
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HinagikUx
United States178 Posts
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TheResidentEvil
United States991 Posts
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/933/screenshot2011042616145.jpg here is wall in on shattered http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/4526/screenshot2011042616201.jpg here is the change to warp in http://img822.imageshack.us/f/screenshot2011042616225.jpg All those stalkers can hit that pylon. you can have 5 hit the other one. Warp in as far away that only allows for a 3 Zealots to warp in.. http://img97.imageshack.us/i/screenshot2011042616224.jpg/ can be hit by 4 stalkers while its going up . http://img688.imageshack.us/i/screenshot2011042616222.jpg I dont like when toss gets changed either cuz I play toss but wall in against zerg should still be ok | ||
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Roxy
Canada753 Posts
On April 27 2011 07:06 Integra wrote: During Beta I was in diamond, ended up ranked 2 or 3 in my division as Terran, Then played Protoss and basically 4-5 warpgated myself to diamond again, After that I switched between protoss and Zerg allot, kept me in the diamond league top 50, when masters got introduced I got into that as well. After season 1 I ended up top 200 in europe, (top 196 according to sc2rankings.com) I'm now focusing on Zerg, I'm *only* top 10 diamond though due to not being able to play as much. What you just talked about is not a sign of protoss T2 being weaker, it's just you meeting better players. There are plenty of protoss players that counters what you just described just fine with immortal/voidray/pheonix gameplay, along with photon cannon support. You just need good scouting and see when it comes. As you are a higher rank than me, I feel i should bow out of the argument. if thats how u say it is it must just be my lower level thinking that is leading me to conclude otherwise in games that I have played i've had a couple times where where it pretty much ended up like this: I have gone mass immortal (2 robo) / stalker (4 gate) with quick 2/0/0 upgrades vs speed 1/1 roaches (only speed roaches). i did not harass at all as I did not feel I was able to (did not get air tech, went straight for robo/immortal as my holucinations saw only roaches) when the 2/0/0 kicks in i push out and i kill his entire army with a small force remaining. then i run back to regroup (as i do not have a critical mass of untis anymore) and then their second attack just runs over me. i dont do this strategy anymore as i got stomped with minimal (apparent) effort on the part of the zerg. I try to get up to 3 colosus before i push out now | ||
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Raid
United States398 Posts
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Asday
United Kingdom388 Posts
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Roeder
Denmark735 Posts
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