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Patch 1.3.3 PTR - Page 86

Forum Index > SC2 General
4401 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 84 85 86 87 88 221 Next
Massive units are not affected by concussive shells. If you think they are, you are wrong.
It's SPORE crawlers that are being changed, not SPINE. Please read carefully.
Royalal
Profile Joined February 2011
58 Posts
April 26 2011 16:40 GMT
#1701
Pretty much a nerf to protoss all around, except for the bunker salvage and archon change.

Spore crawler change nerfs DTs slightly

Ghost change makes them easier to produce since they cost less gas, encouraging more EMPs.

Warpgate change is concerning...
theBullFrog
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States515 Posts
April 26 2011 16:40 GMT
#1702
there goes my 7RR strat. spore colony interesting tho. maybe bring them with me against a toss deathball and just surround..cuz ya know. i'll have creep..... i wonder how this will effect a 2 gate pvz.
thebullfrog
ZergMaestro
Profile Joined January 2011
United States169 Posts
April 26 2011 16:40 GMT
#1703
You know when players of every race are bitching about imba balance stuff. that the game is getting more, and more balanced. :3

Ma Jae Yoon #1. The ONLY Maestro. Effort.
Fryght
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands254 Posts
April 26 2011 16:41 GMT
#1704
On April 27 2011 01:28 Unwired wrote:
These timing windows are closed by the MMM bioball that wreck every single toss out there with just A moving. and btw, i'm a high diamond going into masters, and the most losses i have are vs terran where they just bioball pressure with enough vikings for support. Since HT amulet has been removed i really have no other choice then to go colossi, otherwise i don't have the AOE damage to even tickle the T's bioball.

IMHO, if they bring amulet back toss is very well balanced, because then terran actually has to scout instead of just blindly making vikings.


After they took out amulet, I feel that terran has the advantage, as their ghosts spawn with EMP ready. EMP spam on a protoss army takes off a lot of shield, which is essentially a lot of RAW damage, as well as draining loads of energy on the HTs and sentries. After that, one viking salvo will kill just about any Colossus, after which you are left with a bunch of gateway units without FFs. Why ghosts spawn with EMP ready is behond me. If you're lucky you can feedback them, but then ghosts can also cloak. Having an obs ready will usually not enable you to kill off the ghosts BEFORE they spam their EMP.

Or am I the only one that thinks that EMP is really strong, compared to the current state of Storm?
Ribbon
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5278 Posts
April 26 2011 16:42 GMT
#1705
On April 27 2011 01:28 SpaceYeti wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2011 01:24 Ribbon wrote:
Fun fact

Even against massive, Spore Crawlers have more DPS that Corruptors and over double the HP. Counting the 50 minerals for the drone, they cost the same amount of minerals/larva and 0 gas and 0 supply.

Obviously, they have a bit less range and a lot less mobility, but I'm *REALLY* interested in trying to fit spores into my army and getting fewer corrupters more hydra/infestors/roach/whatever.

Yeah yeah, Colos outrange, but you can pick them up and relocate. The big pain of the Deathball is that it can kill your army and walk into your main before you remax, so even slowing it down is interesting.

I definitely want to try it out.

Spore crawlers actually have greater range, 7 for a SC vs 6 for a corruptor. Of course, It's the mobility that's really an issue, and the fact that they are ground targetable.

They also cost 25 less minerals.

EDIT: I really wish they'd just up Corruptor range to 8 or 9.


Even better, then. .

I'm really excited about "static" D being in my army. I don't know if it's "good" or even "cute", but it's kind of a cool idea and I really like it.
omegan
Profile Joined April 2011
76 Posts
April 26 2011 16:42 GMT
#1706
what does archon becoming massive mean?
Stropheum
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1124 Posts
April 26 2011 16:43 GMT
#1707
I wonder what the archon mentality is in PvP. The only thing I could think of is one player rushing to either DT tech or High templar tech specifically to make archons to deny the permanent ramp block, which means either DT-Archon/sentry or HT-Archon/zealot. It'd be interesting to see if this actually works well.
Valckrie
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom533 Posts
April 26 2011 16:44 GMT
#1708
Archon being massive means they won't be affected by concussive shells; it says at the top =.=

Hope these changes go forward, they sound pretty good.
Fear is a 4 letter word. Why be afraid?
polysciguy
Profile Joined August 2010
United States488 Posts
April 26 2011 16:44 GMT
#1709
On April 27 2011 01:24 Ribbon wrote:
Fun fact

Even against massive, Spore Crawlers have more DPS that Corruptors and over double the HP. Counting the 50 minerals for the drone, they cost the same amount of minerals/larva and 0 gas and 0 supply.

Obviously, they have a bit less range and a lot less mobility, but I'm *REALLY* interested in trying to fit spores into my army and getting fewer corrupters more hydra/infestors/roach/whatever.

Yeah yeah, Colos outrange, but you can pick them up and relocate. The big pain of the Deathball is that it can kill your army and walk into your main before you remax, so even slowing it down is interesting.

I definitely want to try it out.

is that dps comparison including throwing corruption on a target?
glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever---napoleon
-{Cake}-
Profile Joined October 2010
United States217 Posts
April 26 2011 16:44 GMT
#1710
On April 27 2011 01:42 Ribbon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2011 01:28 SpaceYeti wrote:
On April 27 2011 01:24 Ribbon wrote:
Fun fact

Even against massive, Spore Crawlers have more DPS that Corruptors and over double the HP. Counting the 50 minerals for the drone, they cost the same amount of minerals/larva and 0 gas and 0 supply.

Obviously, they have a bit less range and a lot less mobility, but I'm *REALLY* interested in trying to fit spores into my army and getting fewer corrupters more hydra/infestors/roach/whatever.

Yeah yeah, Colos outrange, but you can pick them up and relocate. The big pain of the Deathball is that it can kill your army and walk into your main before you remax, so even slowing it down is interesting.

I definitely want to try it out.

Spore crawlers actually have greater range, 7 for a SC vs 6 for a corruptor. Of course, It's the mobility that's really an issue, and the fact that they are ground targetable.

They also cost 25 less minerals.

EDIT: I really wish they'd just up Corruptor range to 8 or 9.


Even better, then. .

I'm really excited about "static" D being in my army. I don't know if it's "good" or even "cute", but it's kind of a cool idea and I really like it.


Reminds me of siege tanks, should be interesting
isospeedrix
Profile Joined November 2010
United States215 Posts
April 26 2011 16:45 GMT
#1711
5 Gate will be the new IN. inbefore "How to stop 5 gate?" threads.
http://www.youtube.com/isospeedrix
silverhand
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States91 Posts
April 26 2011 16:45 GMT
#1712
On April 27 2011 01:43 Stropheum wrote:
I wonder what the archon mentality is in PvP. The only thing I could think of is one player rushing to either DT tech or High templar tech specifically to make archons to deny the permanent ramp block, which means either DT-Archon/sentry or HT-Archon/zealot. It'd be interesting to see if this actually works well.


I don't think it will be that much of an issue, because by the time you get DT tech, the opponent won't be relying on FF to block his ramp or else he deserves to lose. HT tech comes slightly faster, but still not fast enough to warrant getting the Archon to break FF...you have better timing getting blink with an observer to blink past the FF if that is your main concern in PvP post patch, which I doubt it will be.
/me ponders
SKYFISH_
Profile Joined April 2011
Bulgaria990 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-26 16:46:21
April 26 2011 16:45 GMT
#1713
build time for a zealot with chronoboost is now 23 seconds and comes before the first marine?
lol


time to star working on those 1rax fast inbase bunker builds I guess
thankfully you can salvage bunkers for their full cost so you wont be that far behind after you hold off the rush

oh,wait....
In Soviet Terranistan you rush the Zerg
Footler
Profile Joined January 2010
United States560 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-26 16:48:10
April 26 2011 16:46 GMT
#1714
Blizzard just redeemed themselves with this patch after that previous atrocity of a patch. Protoss change is going to make vP matchups a lot more interesting and it caters to how I play P anyways . Terran changes seem like good ideas, not sure how it will play out though. And the zerg change I was like "OMG" at first because I was thinking it included spines also but then I realized it was just spores and I was like "pretty cool." 6 sec spine roots would've been interesting.
I am The-Sink! Parting bandwagoner before it became a soul train.
raf3776
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1904 Posts
April 26 2011 16:46 GMT
#1715
Im pretty sure the archon change wasnt directed at PvP and rather PvT and im sure it will still see little use in PvP
WWJD (What Would Jaedong Do)
Thezzy
Profile Joined October 2010
Netherlands2117 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-26 16:50:24
April 26 2011 16:48 GMT
#1716
On April 27 2011 01:41 Fryght wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2011 01:28 Unwired wrote:
These timing windows are closed by the MMM bioball that wreck every single toss out there with just A moving. and btw, i'm a high diamond going into masters, and the most losses i have are vs terran where they just bioball pressure with enough vikings for support. Since HT amulet has been removed i really have no other choice then to go colossi, otherwise i don't have the AOE damage to even tickle the T's bioball.

IMHO, if they bring amulet back toss is very well balanced, because then terran actually has to scout instead of just blindly making vikings.


After they took out amulet, I feel that terran has the advantage, as their ghosts spawn with EMP ready. EMP spam on a protoss army takes off a lot of shield, which is essentially a lot of RAW damage, as well as draining loads of energy on the HTs and sentries. After that, one viking salvo will kill just about any Colossus, after which you are left with a bunch of gateway units without FFs. Why ghosts spawn with EMP ready is behond me. If you're lucky you can feedback them, but then ghosts can also cloak. Having an obs ready will usually not enable you to kill off the ghosts BEFORE they spam their EMP.

Or am I the only one that thinks that EMP is really strong, compared to the current state of Storm?


The main difference is that EMP can't kill and spamming it is useless.
Storm damage can be partially dodged but every second you dodge, you're not doing any damage.
If you EMP a Stalker, it may lose its shields but it can still fire and do everything it needs to.
Storm works on any unit, shields or no shields, whereas EMP primarily shines against shields or energy the best is both.
Ghosts in TvZ are rare, but HT in PvZ can roast Lings, Hydras and Mutas easily.

There are many upsides and downsides to EMP and Storm, but IMO they are such different spells from such different units that one shouldn't try to match them in the first place, they just aren't comparable. EMP has its strong points and Storm has its strong points.

The units and their spells are just too different and its not just TvP where they can be used.
Playing Terran is like flying down a MULE drop in a marine suit, firing a Gauss Rifle
silverhand
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States91 Posts
April 26 2011 16:49 GMT
#1717
On April 27 2011 01:46 raf3776 wrote:
Im pretty sure the archon change wasnt directed at PvP and rather PvT and im sure it will still see little use in PvP


The archon buff (if you can call it a buff) to me seems to be negated by the ghost buff. Archons are never a really good idea in PvT once EMP is a factor in the game unless you are just using them to make use of HT's that are drained of energy for storm.
/me ponders
TechSc2
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Netherlands554 Posts
April 26 2011 16:50 GMT
#1718
On April 27 2011 01:32 RobotBodies wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2011 01:15 Unwired wrote:
i applaud everythin but the ghost change, they make it too easy on the terran yet again. Late game PvT is a joke, no toss can defeat mech ghosts. thors, banshees ( with cloak), ghosts and tanks for support. = a move & win like 90% of the terran composition. they engage, terran scanner sweeps, toss looses obs, banshees cloak, GG.


Imagine if your observer didn't have cloak, and your supply cap went down when it dies :o


Imagine that building an observer takes time, and i can't have 10 observers floating around either, since the terran get "free" scanner sweeps to reveal them all. no once the obs is down, banshees can just maul down everything in their path without being stopped, what is toss gonna do? they don't have any on the fly detection like terran, or buffy units like overlord, which aren't taken down in 1 shot to thors
Twitch.tv/TechGTV / Twitter.com/TechGTV
eviltomahawk
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States11135 Posts
April 26 2011 16:50 GMT
#1719
On April 27 2011 01:43 Stropheum wrote:
I wonder what the archon mentality is in PvP. The only thing I could think of is one player rushing to either DT tech or High templar tech specifically to make archons to deny the permanent ramp block, which means either DT-Archon/sentry or HT-Archon/zealot. It'd be interesting to see if this actually works well.

I don't think the Archon change had PvP in mind.

It was most likely a PvT change since Archons previously get slaughtered by Concussive Shells. Technically, Archons should be great against Bio since they do a bit of splash damage, do bonus damage against biological, and are leftovers from Templar who use storm to rip apart bio balls. However, the fact that Archons have short range and get slowed down tremendously by Marauders made them extremely unwieldy against well-microed stimmed Bio balls.

Seriously, there is nothing more painful than watching an Archon trying to chase Marauders but getting slowed down and kited with Concussive Shells.
ㅇㅅㅌㅅ
RajaF
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada530 Posts
April 26 2011 16:50 GMT
#1720
On April 27 2011 01:49 silverhand wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2011 01:46 raf3776 wrote:
Im pretty sure the archon change wasnt directed at PvP and rather PvT and im sure it will still see little use in PvP


The archon buff (if you can call it a buff) to me seems to be negated by the ghost buff. Archons are never a really good idea in PvT once EMP is a factor in the game unless you are just using them to make use of HT's that are drained of energy for storm.


I don't think anyone will be using 3 or more EMPs to kill one archon. That's just a waste of energy and would guarantee that the rest of the army dies from storms.
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