EPTPatch 1.3.3 PTR - Page 84
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Massive units are not affected by concussive shells. If you think they are, you are wrong. It's SPORE crawlers that are being changed, not SPINE. Please read carefully. | ||
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polysciguy
United States488 Posts
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MuteZephyr
Lithuania448 Posts
Protoss already by far is the cheesiest race, why would you give them an even stronger way to cheese? I expect to see incessant proxy 2gate play. The warpgate changes will really only affect a portion of 4gate timings, the biggest help to PvP in my opinion was the pylon change which is quite smart. I don't see 4gate really getting used that much less in any other match up. Guess we'll see how it'll pan out. Unfortunately absolutely nothing was done about the late game death ball that toss can get just by turtling on 2/3 base and a-moving. They need to nip this ridiculous playstyle in the bud now. I don't want to see games where both players sit in their base until 20 minutes and then a-move across the map to great success. Also the bunker nerf came out of nowhere. Everybody on the face of the planet know how to deal with bunker rush by now, no need to nerf terran's defensive structure. I don't see the ghost adjustment changing much. I guess I'll just wait and see. EDIT: Archon change is good IMO, so that conc shells don't affect them and they have utility in FF breaking. Spore crawler change is for the better as well. | ||
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Sm3agol
United States2055 Posts
On April 27 2011 00:38 kathode wrote: Is that bunker change that significant? I don't view it as changing my playstyle at all unless I go mass bunker.. Lol. 25 minerals is really insignificant. IMO Not really. I've seen plenty of high level games where Ts leapfrog 2 bunkers forward at a time, and salvage about 4 times per set. now doing that stupid crap will get you 200 minerals behind. I mean, seriously, imagine if cannons were refundable? Think leapfrogging 4 cannons into your opponents base while you safely tech up, because your initial expendature of 4 cannons outside your opponents base is now surrounding his mineral line thanks to 6 salvages. | ||
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Griffith`
714 Posts
On April 27 2011 01:00 MuteZephyr wrote: Not happy about this patch at all TBH. Protoss already by far is the cheesiest race, why would you give them an even stronger way to cheese? I expect to see incessant proxy 2gate play. The warpgate changes will really only affect a portion of 4gate timings, the biggest help to PvP in my opinion was the pylon change which is quite smart. I don't see 4gate really getting used that much less in any other match up. Guess we'll see how it'll pan out. Unfortunately absolutely nothing was done about the late game death ball that toss can get just by turtling on 2/3 base and a-moving. They need to nip this ridiculous playstyle in the bud now. I don't want to see games where both players sit in their base until 20 minutes and then a-move across the map to great success. Also the bunker nerf came out of nowhere. Everybody on the face of the planet know how to deal with bunker rush by now, no need to nerf terran's defensive structure. I don't see the ghost adjustment changing much. I guess I'll just wait and see. Late game ZvP probably feels like late-game TvZ. Try playing aggressive, doing drops, harassing, multipronged attacks. Protoss, even in BW, has always had an insanely strong late game. | ||
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Bleak
Turkey3059 Posts
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oTLThetA
United States8 Posts
On April 26 2011 11:25 jhsu98 wrote: I'm pretty sure the pylon change is to get rid of putting pylons on the lowground and warping up on the highground. At least this way the pylon needs to be closer and is an easier sniped target. The pylon change is yes, to make warping in on high ground harder but this is also a serious cannon rush nerf. At least this would seem the case to me. I don't mind it one bit. Can't help but wonder how this will change/effect the other match ups. Archons will wreck terran bio late game. I trust Blizz tho. | ||
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HolyHenk
35 Posts
On April 27 2011 00:22 RajaF wrote: So you got... lol... 9 wins in diamond with terran, using an all in, and you you're saying it needs a nerf. Yes, I think the balance team needs to hire you. Or how about you call back when you get to GM with that "strategy" and then maybe we'll pay attention to you. I don't have the time and will to keep using this exploit. Other people have already easily achieved top 1000 master league using this exploit. And otherwise you can just keep on using it vs protoss as the only way to stop it is to completely wall off or use cannons. It is also unscoutable as you wall off with 1 rax and depot. And balance is not all about the GM league. I don't see how 4 gate can be effective vs zerg and terran GM players. Blizzard also balances the game for the lower leagues. Thats the main reason for the 4 gate nerf as with a good executed 4 gate you will easily own anyone below platinum. While with this silly marine all in you also own diamond and master players without the need to micro. | ||
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FliedLice
Germany7494 Posts
It takes 3 EMPs to kill an Archon, I'd be happy if they wasted all of them on my archons, lol | ||
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DarQraven
Netherlands553 Posts
On April 27 2011 00:58 polysciguy wrote: how is that pylon change going to change wall ins, the 1 range difference doesn't seem like all that much to me I'm not sure since I've yet to reinstall SC2, but two cases I can imagine off the top of my head: 1) The gate/core or gate/forge Zealot wall-off that doesn't expose your pylon at the top of your ramp. You build the pylon a little away from the ramp, such that the edge of the power field just touches the top of it. If the pylon comes too close, it might be possible to get units stuck between your gateway and that pylon on some maps. Another version of this is the gate/forge/pylon in the middle wall-off that you can use to block 6pools. Again, I haven't tested, but the new pylon range might not leave enough space to fit that extra pylon/cannon in there. 2) If you're doing forge/cannon-based fast expands, a smaller pylon range means you'll need a second pylon near the wall-off quicker to be able to complete it. Whereas the regular pylon power field would allow for the forge and a gateway to be built side-by-side, the new one might just be too narrow for that. | ||
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MagnusHyperion
United States288 Posts
I think the ghost change is kind of silly? 150/150 seemed more appropriate since their abilities represent HIGH tech! EMP, cloak, and nuke all seem high gas related! Plus, I always see Terrans who go bio floating high gas so ghosts could act as a semi gas sink. Also, I think that adding a real consequence to bunker placement will encourage more... prudent planning on the part of Terran. Personally, 75% still seems high but I come from a land where if you spent the money on a bunker you kept the bunker! Changes to zerg spore crawler burrow time seem very appropriate! It will allow zerg to delay gas collection and lair tech when dealing with banshees and void rays which should allow a greater emphasis on econ. Protoss gateway changes? I am not sure how I feel about this. Proxy 2 gate was super cheesy and really strong! I actually think that the current state of PvP is okay! 4 gate is a highly technical process that, while limiting, does tend to reward the player who can deal with stressful situations better. If they wanted to actually make things better, then they should change the vision problem whereby you can warp in beyond UP the ramp past a force field! This change would be more than enough to reward defensive play and allow teching! The pylon radius change will help things be a little more skill intensive though, since before it was hard for the defender to attack down onto the pylons with enough speed to actually kill them before warping in. Overall, my opinion is that the changes represent an overall trend toward advancing the game in a positive direction. While I disagree strongly with one or two small elements of the patch notes, many of the changes are positive! My hope is that Blizzard will rethink the zealot build time change as it relates to 4 gate builds and approach the high-ground warp-in problem as something that is really at the root of the problem (punishes players who get sentries by not allowing defensive play). | ||
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
Bug Fixes Fixed a bug where players were still able to stack flying units on top of each other. What? I thought being able to fly in a vertical " / " formation was a normal aerial formation. That does not make sense... Game balance wise, wouldn't that negate the very benefit of air unit play? | ||
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oTLThetA
United States8 Posts
On April 27 2011 01:00 MuteZephyr wrote: Not too happy about this patch TBH. Protoss already by far is the cheesiest race, why would you give them an even stronger way to cheese? I expect to see incessant proxy 2gate play. The warpgate changes will really only affect a portion of 4gate timings, the biggest help to PvP in my opinion was the pylon change which is quite smart. I don't see 4gate really getting used that much less in any other match up. Guess we'll see how it'll pan out. Unfortunately absolutely nothing was done about the late game death ball that toss can get just by turtling on 2/3 base and a-moving. They need to nip this ridiculous playstyle in the bud now. I don't want to see games where both players sit in their base until 20 minutes and then a-move across the map to great success. Also the bunker nerf came out of nowhere. Everybody on the face of the planet know how to deal with bunker rush by now, no need to nerf terran's defensive structure. I don't see the ghost adjustment changing much. I guess I'll just wait and see. EDIT: Archon change is good IMO, so that conc shells don't affect them and they have utility in FF breaking. Spore crawler change is for the better as well. You have valid points, but I would argue a well-executed 4gate with good control is harder to hold off than a 2gate with good control. Simply not as many units. I do agree that there is no reason to allow Protoss players a stronger cheese. That being said, the 40 sec delay on warpgate is huge. Toss will need the lowered build time in order to defend any pressure. | ||
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Griffith`
714 Posts
On April 27 2011 01:03 FliedLice wrote: It takes 3 EMPs to kill an Archon, I'd be happy if they wasted all of them on my archons, lol 4 EMPs actually. Archons have 350 shield. | ||
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darmousseh
United States3437 Posts
Pylon fix will make the korean 4 gate a LOT less strong since it relies on builing a pylon near your ramp to warp in, that 1 less radius means the pylon will be closer and will be much easier to pick off. I hope I can finally 2 gate robo every game like I did back in the beta in pvp. | ||
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windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
On April 27 2011 00:52 mike1290 wrote: I'm not really convinced that any of this needed to be patched. It seems like Blizzard is jumping the gun with their patches. The game is still evolving, pvp in particular, and it didn't seem like we were at a point where the game stagnated due to something being imbalanced. We don't need patches every month anymore. Let the game develop how it is for a while. Tell that to all the patch junkies in the forums. Well, and to be fair Blizzard has been patient with the patches. If it was up to the forums we would be getting patches nerfing the Race of the winner of GSL | ||
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Maliris
Northern Ireland2557 Posts
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BoxedLunch
United States387 Posts
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Baarn
United States2702 Posts
On April 27 2011 01:10 darmousseh wrote: Archon fix makes up for warp gate nerf almost imo. At least I will be making more archons in pvt. Pylon fix will make the korean 4 gate a LOT less strong since it relies on builing a pylon near your ramp to warp in, that 1 less radius means the pylon will be closer and will be much easier to pick off. I hope I can finally 2 gate robo every game like I did back in the beta in pvp. That's exactly what the change is supposed to do.  | ||
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Griffith`
714 Posts
A chronoboosted zealot (2 food) now takes less time (23 sec) to make than marine (1 food) and 25 sec. | ||
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Baarn
United States2702 Posts
On April 27 2011 01:13 BoxedLunch wrote: so... I just played a few games in the PTR, and they FORGOT to actually implement the change to warp gate research. It still takes 140 seconds. rofl blizzard Oh it'll be in the next build. Don't worry. | ||
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