Massive units are not affected by concussive shells. If you think they are, you are wrong. It's SPORE crawlers that are being changed, not SPINE. Please read carefully.
On April 26 2011 23:33 stickyickynugz wrote: This isnt nerfing warpgate hardly at all. Played game vs a 4 gater (not on PTR), it finished at 5:42. With blizz's nerf, this is still putting warpgate at around 6:10 or 6:00... with chrfonobooost... lmao, and also gives them extra units before the push too...
6:00 impossible. 6:10 only possible if you use 5 or 6 chronoboost. Gl allinning like that (if it's even possible to use 6 chronos). Might as well take your probes on 2 warp ins and say "BIT BY BIIIITT"
? Standard warpgate timing is ~5:15, so 5:55 now all else equal. Presumably you'd use another chrono, so lower really.
On a more serious note, by the time you have the WG researched, with his 3 gates, he will have much more units than you. 3 gate constant production is the maximum that can be supported on 1 base. Think of the 3 stalker becoming the 5-6 stalker build.
Well yes this is the more important part of things. Even currently I don't understand why people do the "build 3 gates at once" thing instead of constant gate+unit production. You can have 4z/5s out by the time the 4gate hits...
On April 27 2011 00:08 Yaotzin wrote: Why would this change FFE?
well you would have to put the pylon alittle closer to the choke might make a difference, but i think 6.5 range is still big enough to wall off.
Shorter pylon range will affect walling of at your natural at maps like taldarim, shattered. Someone earlier in thread did math and now pylon will cover ~25% less area.
yeah but it might be viable going Gateway first again with faster Zealot buildtime instead of forge? also early pool allins got nerfed abit with this patch.
it should hopefully decrease the amount of cheese in the matchups. i expect to see 2 gate openings getting standard in pvp, and getting warpgates alot later. with adjusted buildtimes also you should be able to defend a 4 Warpgate rush with 3 boosted Gateways.
This patch is stupid. It changes all the timings and strategies of the protoss. This means we have to find new ways to keep up with terrans and zergs. If blizzard only made this patch to stop 4 gate there would have been better ways. This patch also strongly encourges 2 gate cheese. And speaking of cheese this marine tactic marine all in is way more efficient then 4 gate. I am currently 9-2 in diamond without ever playing terran before and you kill ur oppenent before 7 min mark.
On April 27 2011 00:08 Yaotzin wrote: Why would this change FFE?
well you would have to put the pylon alittle closer to the choke might make a difference, but i think 6.5 range is still big enough to wall off.
Shorter pylon range will affect walling of at your natural at maps like taldarim, shattered. Someone earlier in thread did math and now pylon will cover ~25% less area.
Math:
old: (7,5/2)^2 * pi = 44,17 square units new: (6,5/2)^2*pi = 33,18 square units
On April 27 2011 00:11 Divine-Sneaker wrote: Why the completely random ghost buff. As if they aren't already strong enough lategame against toss, now they can also be more easily massproduced. The rest is interesting.
makes it a bit easier for terrans to take on infestors and archons(now that they are massive and cant be kited to death by marauders).
On April 26 2011 18:55 Timestreamer wrote: Love the archon buff. Finally, the freaking psychic death ball of energy won't be killed by a guy in a big suite. About the spore crawler....well:
On April 27 2011 00:19 HolyHenk wrote: This patch is stupid. It changes all the timings and strategies of the protoss. This means we have to find new ways to keep up with terrans and zergs. If blizzard only made this patch to stop 4 gate there would have been better ways.
What better ways? Every other idea I've heard was mind-numbingly stupid.
This patch also strongly encourges 2 gate cheese. And speaking of cheese this marine tactic marine all in is way more efficient then 4 gate. I am currently 9-2 in diamond without ever playing terran before and you kill ur oppenent before 7 min mark.
Yeah that cheese is too strong. It's less strong now though, happy days.
On April 27 2011 00:19 HolyHenk wrote: This patch is stupid. It changes all the timings and strategies of the protoss. This means we have to find new ways to keep up with terrans and zergs. If blizzard only made this patch to stop 4 gate there would have been better ways. This patch also strongly encourges 2 gate cheese. And speaking of cheese this marine tactic marine all in is way more efficient then 4 gate. I am currently 9-2 in diamond without ever playing terran before and you kill ur oppenent before 7 min mark.
So you got... lol... 9 wins in diamond with terran, using an all in, and you you're saying it needs a nerf. Yes, I think the balance team needs to hire you.
Or how about you call back when you get to GM with that "strategy" and then maybe we'll pay attention to you.
Bunker nerf... meh, it wouldn't be a patch without changing it. I don't really care about it, but I guess terrans will have to think twice before bunker rushing.
This is the crux of the issue. Hahaha I died when I read that :D hahaha
On April 26 2011 22:27 Omegasad wrote: Archons crushing forcefields in PvP can anyone imagine that happening?
So much gas..
And I think a Zealot/Colossi army will crush a Zealot/Archon army any day
It will, colossi balls own archon/immortal balls.
You can rush to archons much faster than you can rush to colossus. Twilight council and templar archives are both 50 seconds, compared to 65 for robo facility and robo bay, plus another 75 for a colossus.
Getting an archon and using it to bust the ramp could prove viable against someone trying to go colossus.
Not sure, it's incredibly mineral & gas intensive to get 1 Archon using 2 HTs, I think you underestimate it. Twilight (150/100) + Templar Archives (200/200) + 2x HT (100/300), for a grand total of 450/600. Yes, Robotics Facility (200/100) + Robotics Bay (200/200) + Collosus (300/200) is also 700/500, BUT he can actually scout you using an Observer and will probably skip the Collosus and just get more Stalkers or Immortals. But let's say he does get Collosus; since you spent roughly the same amount of resources (you 250 minerals less, but 100 gas more) your armies will be about equal and he has the defender's advantage.
Not even sure if you have enough gas to actually rush it as hard as you want, any early pressure will probably rape you as a Sentry really cannot be part of it, either. But since the Twilight and Templar Archives build so fast, I don't think you will even have the 200/200 for archives ready after twilight, and the 300 gas for 2 x HT after archives
All in all, rushing to an Archon in PvP seems like suicide to me. How do you even know he is in fact rushing to Collosus, you cannot scout properly without Robo. But perhaps this should be tried out a bit first. As both of you need all the gas, both will probably have mainly Zealots, and the Archon does deal bonus + splash to them.
These are all really good changes I think, not really meant to nerf a race or make a race stronger just changing the way the game is played in some cases.
I think that in the long run the smaller pylon range will be the biggest nerf for protoss as it will pretty much make it impossible to use vision to warp in units onto high ground and it will be much easier to unpower buildings with harass attacks.
Most importantly thou as soon as this patch hits Whitera becomes to official best protoss in the world or maybe MC will take proxy gating to a whole new level.
old: (7,5/2)^2 * pi = 44,17 square units new: (6,5/2)^2*pi = 33,18 square units
old/new = 0,7512
~24,88% less area
I might be wrong but the building placements seem discrete. This would make your computations invalid. If the buildings can be put only on grid points, you need to count how many buildings a pylon can support on its own.
For units the math would be fine, but you need to subtract the space occupied by buildings, which is 'at least' the one pylon in the middle. (doesn't make a big difference though)
With marine all in you need scouting, and it is very popular in ladder at the high gold level these days. I lost to this a few times b4, but now I realized that you just need to scout it coming with worker and xelnaga to see it coming. You just need 2 bunkers or even 1 with scv repairing, and you can hold this off. I have beaten 3 rax proxy with 1 rax bunker into banshee/tank
As protoss you can just get either sentries or micro stalkers As zerg i sould say 1 spine and a few lings
If you hold this off the opponent usually just leaves....its like they want to get quick points, and do not want to play out a long match
But then again 4 gate is more popular.... Zerg likes the banebust all in as well....
I wish the players vary their styles more, and not all do the same thing (gold and plat players, although i see this happen to my friend in diamond too). Sometimes I play custom game cause ppl actually play a long game, and not just leave after cheesing. Oh well, i am getting good points just fending these cheeses off.
EPT
