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Massive units are not affected by concussive shells. If you think they are, you are wrong.
It's SPORE crawlers that are being changed, not SPINE. Please read carefully. |
it seems protoss players will want to not use warpgates until they move out from now on with this patch, since it will slow down their macro ability and increase the amount of gateways they need to stay efficient.
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Brazil5259 Posts
Well, I find this excellent. In fact, I don't think any changes on this PTR are bad. Massive archons make them actually useful for TvP and even opens the possibility to use them on PvP as anti-FFs post DT, and since they are psionic they won't take extra damage from stalkers either.
Pylon nerf I guess was necessary for PvP in special, I just wonder how it will work with Protoss wall.
Warp Gate nerf is something I've been waiting for a loooooooooong time as a Z player. 4gate nerf will make protoss be more creative and actually make something else on the ladder, its very boring to crush 4gate after 4gate, because people just do that. If its nerfed, I guess they will try to do something else.
GW buff is another one I like. Maybe 2gate rushes will become more effective, but that just adds to the game. Also, the players evolved enough since patch 1.1.0, and I do believe they(we) can hold this kind of pressure just fine nowadays.
Ghost buff makes mech-ghost much more viable vs P, so I like it A LOT. I want to see more mech play vP.
Bunker nerf... meh, it wouldn't be a patch without changing it. I don't really care about it, but I guess terrans will have to think twice before bunker rushing.
Spore Crawler buff is great, I'm not so sure if it is really necessary tho. Sure, that will make us able to fight banshee/air-toss much better, but did we really need it?
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Will there ever come a patch where people only say, "Hmm interesting. Let's see how it plays out?"
My gut tells me no.
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On April 26 2011 23:34 tadL wrote:
cant wait to get this live, 2proxygate zelot rush will just be a freewin
Sure, just like it is now when you pick terran before the game starts -.-
This strat was viable on 2 player maps with short rush distances like Steps of War, Incineration Zone etc. When scouted it was crushed. And no rly viable transition after.
Now try use it on Taldarim, or any 4 player map when you don't know where your oponnent is. 33% chance to guess right spot. Either way this strat may work on low levels, but then I could pull it off even if build time was incresed instead of reduced by 5s.
Bigger change is warpate research being increased by 40 ingame secs. Means one extra unit from gw before upgrade finishes and using of robo/stargate more potent(pvp). In PvZ, zergs will have now one production cycle more to prepare for 4g push. Likewise PvT.
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On April 26 2011 23:47 TimeSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 23:43 Juanald wrote:On April 26 2011 23:12 TimeSpiral wrote:On April 26 2011 22:59 RogerChillingworth wrote:On April 26 2011 22:56 TimeSpiral wrote:Did Protoss just get buffed, rofl? That's amazing. On the flipside, it looks like Warpgate research was nerfed a little bit. That's actually a pretty big deal. The 4 Warpgate attack will be slightly bigger now, but also about 20-25 seconds later. It doesn't address the fundamental problems with Protoss right now, but maybe HoTS will do that :/ Terran gets Nerfed, ROFL! The bunker is on the only defensive structure in the game that does not increase area DPS for cost. It's the only defensive structure that can be halted mid-construction by a minimum of a single worker unit. Its sole advantage was that it added a little durability to barracks units that are stationary, in the form of "armor (HP)." You're essentially paying for additional HP per unit in a given area plus get a slight range buff. If the bunker was destroyed, or mass repaired (this costs money), the salvage feature was negated. That was the primary benefit of a bunker. This is a silly, and stupid change. I'm on the fence about the Ghost. We'll have to see how that works out. Seems like it could be a buff, but where are our free spell casters (Sentry/HT)? + Show Spoiler [tongue and cheek] +Slightly kidding about this, but those two units are stupid cheap for their value. I don't mind that, especially since they are terrified of the necessary Infestor nerf and don't appear to be getting one any time soon. 1. Putting your shit in bold doesn't make it correct. 2. Terran didn't get nerfed. Ghosts got buffed, bunkers return 75 instead of 100 minerals. Hardly a nerf. Roger, it's called formatting. Is it not apparent that the bold style is to create the feeling of headlines and sub-headlines? Deal with it. + Show Spoiler [zany theory] +Or is he actually saying bold text implies some level of authority over non-bold text? Lol. If this is so I should have not even replied at all. (2) Terran didn't get nerfed? Good luck explaining that one. The Ghost and the Raven are the most expensive spell-casters in the game. That remains unchanged. Moving some of the gas cost to minerals is a plus in early game (when Ghosts are not used) and may encourage a few early Ghost plays, so like I said, I'm going to let this one pan out. The bunker change is a nerf (no way to argue that), and the Archon buff is an indirect nerf to Terran bio armies (this is debatable). The amount of kiting and micro required to fight an a+clicked Protoss deathball is already silly, this is just going to make it much worse. This will probably encourage more Terrans to transition into Ghost Mech in lategame versus Protoss. Maybe this is a good thing. Only time (and Blizzard) will tell. you cant seriously think a-moving is all it takes.. if u try marine vs zealot on both sides ull get an idea of what its like from our POV.. CMON On April 26 2011 23:12 jacobmarlow wrote:
Horrible changes to protoss. Now zerg has an additional 40 seconds to do whatever the f they want. We already have so many limited options in terms of tech this makes it a lot lot worse. Literally this means the end of any pressure protoss players can put on zerg, unless we try to chrono out units early with the reduced build times.
i agree i fill our options are being limited severly. after kadarian amulit nerf noone makes HTs anymore this is just forcing us more 1 dementianal...  It's not a hit to skill level, or a jab at Protoss players, at all, but most Protoss deathballs are a+click compositions. That's just how it works out usually.
Apart from: forcefield placement, keeping zealots ahead of stalkers, preventing sentry sniping, collosus micro against vikings/corruptors, focusing air units with stalkers, psionic storm, and spreading spell casters (vs terran). Yep.
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Lord_J
Kenya1085 Posts
I like most of those changes. I'm not convinced it will do a whole lot to change the nature of PvP, though.
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I don't like it when they start fiddling with core gameplay mechanics, ie: pylon range.
Is the game really that inherently flawed?
I really hope that particular change doesn't go through.
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Can a mod add a note to the top thing telling people that gateways are still worse than warpgates in build time :p
I don't like it when they start fiddling with core gameplay mechanics, ie: pylon range.
Pylon range isn't a mechanic, it's a stat. Fiddling with the pylon mechanic would be something like those ideas of limiting warpin to pylons near a nexus or something. I can't see how this change will influence much - except for the dumb warpin on high ground thing.
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Brunei Darussalam41 Posts
I think bunker return cost should be percentage-wise proportion to the hp. Doesn't make sense people buying back the bunker at full or 75% of the cost if like 99%of it is all burnt and have zergling shit all over :l
Just a thought.
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For those not understanding the pylon power change - this is a nerf to offensive warpgate strategies that relied on placing pylons outside of opponents bases and warping in with vision. You now have to place the pylons closer to the base edge, which makes it easier to see. This is in line with most of the toss changes which appear geared around weakening warpgate strategies.
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On April 26 2011 23:51 Turo wrote:
I don't like it when they start fiddling with core gameplay mechanics, ie: pylon range.
Is the game really that inherently flawed?
I really hope that particular change doesn't go through.
They are reducing the range slightly so u cant warpin on the highground outside of stalker range.
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this is basically the best patch they've done in a while imo
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Well thought out patch, I don't see anything wrong with the patch, only good changes that will make the game better and more enjoyable to play/watch.
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On April 26 2011 23:53 Kwon wrote:
I think bunker return cost should be percentage-wise proportion to the hp. Doesn't make sense people buying back the bunker at full or 75% of the cost if like 99%of it is all burnt and have zergling shit all over :l
Just a thought.
I always thought this as well. 'Free' bunkers were fine imo but last-second bunker salvages always seemed a bit silly
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On April 26 2011 23:51 rushian wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 23:47 TimeSpiral wrote:On April 26 2011 23:43 Juanald wrote:On April 26 2011 23:12 TimeSpiral wrote:On April 26 2011 22:59 RogerChillingworth wrote:On April 26 2011 22:56 TimeSpiral wrote:Did Protoss just get buffed, rofl? That's amazing. On the flipside, it looks like Warpgate research was nerfed a little bit. That's actually a pretty big deal. The 4 Warpgate attack will be slightly bigger now, but also about 20-25 seconds later. It doesn't address the fundamental problems with Protoss right now, but maybe HoTS will do that :/ Terran gets Nerfed, ROFL! The bunker is on the only defensive structure in the game that does not increase area DPS for cost. It's the only defensive structure that can be halted mid-construction by a minimum of a single worker unit. Its sole advantage was that it added a little durability to barracks units that are stationary, in the form of "armor (HP)." You're essentially paying for additional HP per unit in a given area plus get a slight range buff. If the bunker was destroyed, or mass repaired (this costs money), the salvage feature was negated. That was the primary benefit of a bunker. This is a silly, and stupid change. I'm on the fence about the Ghost. We'll have to see how that works out. Seems like it could be a buff, but where are our free spell casters (Sentry/HT)? + Show Spoiler [tongue and cheek] +Slightly kidding about this, but those two units are stupid cheap for their value. I don't mind that, especially since they are terrified of the necessary Infestor nerf and don't appear to be getting one any time soon. 1. Putting your shit in bold doesn't make it correct. 2. Terran didn't get nerfed. Ghosts got buffed, bunkers return 75 instead of 100 minerals. Hardly a nerf. Roger, it's called formatting. Is it not apparent that the bold style is to create the feeling of headlines and sub-headlines? Deal with it. + Show Spoiler [zany theory] +Or is he actually saying bold text implies some level of authority over non-bold text? Lol. If this is so I should have not even replied at all. (2) Terran didn't get nerfed? Good luck explaining that one. The Ghost and the Raven are the most expensive spell-casters in the game. That remains unchanged. Moving some of the gas cost to minerals is a plus in early game (when Ghosts are not used) and may encourage a few early Ghost plays, so like I said, I'm going to let this one pan out. The bunker change is a nerf (no way to argue that), and the Archon buff is an indirect nerf to Terran bio armies (this is debatable). The amount of kiting and micro required to fight an a+clicked Protoss deathball is already silly, this is just going to make it much worse. This will probably encourage more Terrans to transition into Ghost Mech in lategame versus Protoss. Maybe this is a good thing. Only time (and Blizzard) will tell. you cant seriously think a-moving is all it takes.. if u try marine vs zealot on both sides ull get an idea of what its like from our POV.. CMON On April 26 2011 23:12 jacobmarlow wrote:
Horrible changes to protoss. Now zerg has an additional 40 seconds to do whatever the f they want. We already have so many limited options in terms of tech this makes it a lot lot worse. Literally this means the end of any pressure protoss players can put on zerg, unless we try to chrono out units early with the reduced build times.
i agree i fill our options are being limited severly. after kadarian amulit nerf noone makes HTs anymore this is just forcing us more 1 dementianal... It's not a hit to skill level, or a jab at Protoss players, at all, but most Protoss deathballs are a+click compositions. That's just how it works out usually. Apart from: forcefield placement, keeping zealots ahead of stalkers, preventing sentry sniping, collosus micro against vikings/corruptors, focusing air units with stalkers, psionic storm, and spreading spell casters (vs terran). Yep.
The micro protoss needs is usually less APM intensive than the stutter step micro Terran requires. And some of the stuff you mentioned is null considering focusing key/air units and unit positioning is something all races have to do.
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On April 26 2011 11:21 neobowman wrote:
Spore Crawler change: Holy shit, I love this! Such a brilliant change.
Pylon power radius seems pretty random though.
More bunker changes! Though I admit that I actually like this one.
I have a feeling that 2 gate early game will actually be used now.
the pylon change is an anti 4g rush change, as they were used aggressively to warp in on enemy ramp.
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On April 26 2011 23:57 frucisky wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 23:51 rushian wrote:On April 26 2011 23:47 TimeSpiral wrote:On April 26 2011 23:43 Juanald wrote:On April 26 2011 23:12 TimeSpiral wrote:On April 26 2011 22:59 RogerChillingworth wrote:On April 26 2011 22:56 TimeSpiral wrote:Did Protoss just get buffed, rofl? That's amazing. On the flipside, it looks like Warpgate research was nerfed a little bit. That's actually a pretty big deal. The 4 Warpgate attack will be slightly bigger now, but also about 20-25 seconds later. It doesn't address the fundamental problems with Protoss right now, but maybe HoTS will do that :/ Terran gets Nerfed, ROFL! The bunker is on the only defensive structure in the game that does not increase area DPS for cost. It's the only defensive structure that can be halted mid-construction by a minimum of a single worker unit. Its sole advantage was that it added a little durability to barracks units that are stationary, in the form of "armor (HP)." You're essentially paying for additional HP per unit in a given area plus get a slight range buff. If the bunker was destroyed, or mass repaired (this costs money), the salvage feature was negated. That was the primary benefit of a bunker. This is a silly, and stupid change. I'm on the fence about the Ghost. We'll have to see how that works out. Seems like it could be a buff, but where are our free spell casters (Sentry/HT)? + Show Spoiler [tongue and cheek] +Slightly kidding about this, but those two units are stupid cheap for their value. I don't mind that, especially since they are terrified of the necessary Infestor nerf and don't appear to be getting one any time soon. 1. Putting your shit in bold doesn't make it correct. 2. Terran didn't get nerfed. Ghosts got buffed, bunkers return 75 instead of 100 minerals. Hardly a nerf. Roger, it's called formatting. Is it not apparent that the bold style is to create the feeling of headlines and sub-headlines? Deal with it. + Show Spoiler [zany theory] +Or is he actually saying bold text implies some level of authority over non-bold text? Lol. If this is so I should have not even replied at all. (2) Terran didn't get nerfed? Good luck explaining that one. The Ghost and the Raven are the most expensive spell-casters in the game. That remains unchanged. Moving some of the gas cost to minerals is a plus in early game (when Ghosts are not used) and may encourage a few early Ghost plays, so like I said, I'm going to let this one pan out. The bunker change is a nerf (no way to argue that), and the Archon buff is an indirect nerf to Terran bio armies (this is debatable). The amount of kiting and micro required to fight an a+clicked Protoss deathball is already silly, this is just going to make it much worse. This will probably encourage more Terrans to transition into Ghost Mech in lategame versus Protoss. Maybe this is a good thing. Only time (and Blizzard) will tell. you cant seriously think a-moving is all it takes.. if u try marine vs zealot on both sides ull get an idea of what its like from our POV.. CMON On April 26 2011 23:12 jacobmarlow wrote:
Horrible changes to protoss. Now zerg has an additional 40 seconds to do whatever the f they want. We already have so many limited options in terms of tech this makes it a lot lot worse. Literally this means the end of any pressure protoss players can put on zerg, unless we try to chrono out units early with the reduced build times.
i agree i fill our options are being limited severly. after kadarian amulit nerf noone makes HTs anymore this is just forcing us more 1 dementianal... It's not a hit to skill level, or a jab at Protoss players, at all, but most Protoss deathballs are a+click compositions. That's just how it works out usually. Apart from: forcefield placement, keeping zealots ahead of stalkers, preventing sentry sniping, collosus micro against vikings/corruptors, focusing air units with stalkers, psionic storm, and spreading spell casters (vs terran). Yep. The micro protoss needs is usually less APM intensive than the stutter step micro Terran requires. And some of the stuff you mentioned is null considering focusing key/air units and unit positioning is something all races have to do.
I'm not saying it's harder than other races, or even that it isn't a bit easier. But my point is that calling them amove deathballs is wrong. Unless you already have a big advantage, if you just a-move it you will lose
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Toss's micro isn't as APM intensive as stutter stepping, but it's a lot harder*. Stutter step is incredibly simple, especially with stim up where timing hardly even matters anymore as stuff shoots so fast. Just spam move/stop, whoo.
*than stutter step alone, I'm not denigrating the difficulty of their micro overall.
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what if warp gate was researched in gateway instead of cyber. it becomes more a sacrifice of units for versatility.
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On April 26 2011 23:48 Beef Noodles wrote:
Will there ever come a patch where people only say, "Hmm interesting. Let's see how it plays out?"
My gut tells me no.
That would be a useless Forum...
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EPT
