EPTPatch 1.3.3 PTR - Page 85
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Massive units are not affected by concussive shells. If you think they are, you are wrong. It's SPORE crawlers that are being changed, not SPINE. Please read carefully. | ||
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TechSc2
Netherlands554 Posts
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Nazeron
Canada1046 Posts
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PantsB
United States77 Posts
So in order to be safe early you'll need to build gates earlier. But have you ever tried building the gateways 30 seconds early when 3/4 gating? You can afford to build units out of 3 gates, and for a short time 4 on one base, but not if you're also building gateways while you're building units. Hell if you have to "fix" the 4 gate make it so you can only warp 1 gateway to a warpgate at time. | ||
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
I love the archon change however and we may start seeing some archons in PvP which will be cool but im not too sure on most of those protoss changes. | ||
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asdfTT123
United States989 Posts
I like all of the other changes but the ghost costing less gas? wtf? It should be a gas intensive unit since almost every other unit from the barracks is mineral-intensive. Will be interested to see how this shapes the match-ups but there have got to be some changes to PvP colossus wars. -.- | ||
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Huragius
Lithuania1506 Posts
On April 27 2011 01:15 Unwired wrote: i applaud everythin but the ghost change, they make it too easy on the terran yet again. Late game PvT is a joke, no toss can defeat mech ghosts. thors, banshees ( with cloak), ghosts and tanks for support. = a move & win like 90% of the terran composition. they engage, terran scanner sweeps, toss looses obs, banshees cloak, GG. I wonder, from what league are players saying that late game PvT is a joke. Yes, it is a joke, but not for the protoss. If your going mech, there will be time windows during which ones you are very vulnerable to any kind of protoss composition, and a good protoss will use that window to punish you for going mech. After timing attacks, protoss will drop another expo mixed-up with some DT harass and will be switching to Carriers against Terran's mech. And this is damn hard to prevent. | ||
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Striding Strider
United Kingdom787 Posts
On April 27 2011 01:19 asdfTT123 wrote: IMO, if I was blizz I would have kept the zealot build time on gateway the same since it's been seen in previous iterations that 2gating is so strong vs zerg on short spawns and now every noob out there will try proxy gating every match. As is Roach/Ling all in for Zerg. If 2gate opening becomes viable against Zerg then this is a brilliant change IMHO. | ||
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Jarky
Sweden26 Posts
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
Even against massive, Spore Crawlers have more DPS that Corruptors and over double the HP. Counting the 50 minerals for the drone, they cost the same amount of minerals/larva and 0 gas and 0 supply. Obviously, they have a bit less range and a lot less mobility, but I'm *REALLY* interested in trying to fit spores into my army and getting fewer corrupters more hydra/infestors/roach/whatever. Yeah yeah, Colos outrange, but you can pick them up and relocate. The big pain of the Deathball is that it can kill your army and walk into your main before you remax, so even slowing it down is interesting. I definitely want to try it out. | ||
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TechSc2
Netherlands554 Posts
On April 27 2011 01:21 Huragius wrote: I wonder, from what league are players saying that late game PvT is a joke. Yes, it is a joke, but not for the protoss. If your going mech, there will be time windows during which ones you are very vulnerable to any kind of protoss composition, and a good protoss will use that window to punish you for going mech. After timing attacks, protoss will drop another expo mixed-up with some DT harass and will be switching to Carriers against Terran's mech. And this is damn hard to prevent. These timing windows are closed by the MMM bioball that wreck every single toss out there with just A moving. and btw, i'm a high diamond going into masters, and the most losses i have are vs terran where they just bioball pressure with enough vikings for support. Since HT amulet has been removed i really have no other choice then to go colossi, otherwise i don't have the AOE damage to even tickle the T's bioball. IMHO, if they bring amulet back toss is very well balanced, because then terran actually has to scout instead of just blindly making vikings. FYI, 50% of the top 10 GM league's is terran, 30% toss and 20% zerg. wonder why huh? | ||
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SpaceYeti
United States723 Posts
On April 27 2011 01:24 Ribbon wrote: Fun fact Even against massive, Spore Crawlers have more DPS that Corruptors and over double the HP. Counting the 50 minerals for the drone, they cost the same amount of minerals/larva and 0 gas and 0 supply. Obviously, they have a bit less range and a lot less mobility, but I'm *REALLY* interested in trying to fit spores into my army and getting fewer corrupters more hydra/infestors/roach/whatever. Yeah yeah, Colos outrange, but you can pick them up and relocate. The big pain of the Deathball is that it can kill your army and walk into your main before you remax, so even slowing it down is interesting. I definitely want to try it out. Spore crawlers actually have greater range, 7 for a SC vs 6 for a corruptor. Of course, It's the mobility that's really an issue, and the fact that they are ground targetable. They also cost 25 less minerals. EDIT: I really wish they'd just up Corruptor range to 8 or 9.  | ||
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SharkStarcraft
Austria2240 Posts
Bunker nerf is great as well, its a shame that these things were free for so long. Dont really know about the Spore Buff, it wont make that much of a difference i guess. I dunno about the ghost buff, i guess it will buff terran lategame. | ||
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RobotBodies
47 Posts
On April 27 2011 01:15 Unwired wrote: i applaud everythin but the ghost change, they make it too easy on the terran yet again. Late game PvT is a joke, no toss can defeat mech ghosts. thors, banshees ( with cloak), ghosts and tanks for support. = a move & win like 90% of the terran composition. they engage, terran scanner sweeps, toss looses obs, banshees cloak, GG. Imagine if your observer didn't have cloak, and your supply cap went down when it dies :o | ||
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benefluence
United States158 Posts
Just as an FYI, Blizzard invented warpgates to make protoss macro different from terran. In alpha toss started with warpgates, and every change they've made to it has been an attempt to make it not broken while doing what they can to maintain the sense of 'warp in is how protoss macros'. They are never going to make players choose between warpgate and gateways (which isn't to say they shouldn't). What I wish they'd do with warpgates: -start with warpgates that can only warp-in within a radius of the nexus or in the power field of a warp prism. -twilight council upgrade that allows for warp-in anywhere with pylon power. Kills warpgate rushes and the necessity of an upgrade with absolutely no decision making behind it (start as soon as cyber core finishes, pretty much always. At least stim, concussive and combat shield are sometimes delayed for other tech or or have the order of research varied). At the same time, it emphasizes the cool down mechanic as the fundamental difference in toss macro style over the warp in anywhere, which I think is more accurate, while keeping the toss 'reinforce anywhere quickly' style available for mid/late game where it's not as abusable. Warp in anywhere tech is a buff for gateway units. It just makes sense to me that it would be at the twilight council (in the same vein, I've often wondered if dragoon range was at the citadel of adun at some point in development in SCI). It also gives an incentive for making a warp prism for reinforcing when you open robo.You would need to balance gateway build time for early unit timings, but you'd have the lack of proxying to help out there. Just a pipe dream, but I think it'd be nice. | ||
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silverhand
United States91 Posts
I'd have to wait until it goes live to test, but based on timings, it would appear that a 4gate on short rush distances would still be viable although not an every game strat, which I really like. Timing: WG research increased by 40 seconds...proper WG timing pre-1.3.3 has your 4 gates finishing @ or slightly before WG finishes for immediate conversion to WG and warpin at proxy. With Stalker build time reduced to 37 seconds, you can essentially pump out your initial 4 stalkers you would normally warpin and rally them to proxy pylon where they would arrive at the proxy pylon close to the time the WG conversion finishes on short rush distance maps. So instead of your rush hitting at 6 min with 5 stalkers and 1 zealot, you have it hitting ~15 seconds later with 9 stalkers and 1 zealot or any other mixture of zealot/stalker you prefer. I can't wait until this goes live on PTR so I can begin testing new builds. I can already see some potential builds to test: 2 gate FE - allows you to defend proxy gates (can just skip expand if proxy is scouted, or cancel once proxy rush hits making sure you have an early sentry to block main ramp and reinforce for the eventual push. 3 gate blink w/earlier transitions into any templar tech 2 gate/robo with heavy immortal composition new 5 gate one-base all-in Faster Tyler double forge timing push against terran bio openings. Fun with Hallucinations vs Zerg Possible viable 2 gate/Stargate openings - faster build times allow you to get more defensive units out while getting Voids slightly sooner. It really fundamentally changes Protoss builds, but in a way that is exciting as a protoss player. | ||
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RoachyRoach
81 Posts
On April 26 2011 19:30 Ohdamn wrote: wow well if that's true it should be changed before it get's live.. wasn't that the case in beta too? and was changed This is wrong. You start with a WG -> make a zealot Switch quick to gateway -> make a zealot Then switch back to WG -> Still need to cooldown from before you switched to Gateway. This cooldown isnt just magically reset, it needs that time as a WG to cool. I tested this in Beta | ||
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Piy
Scotland3152 Posts
This will massively change PvP I would say. Ghosts will be a very good response to Brood Lords now also. Could be some fun changes - Protoss will need to rethink the way they play I guess. Protoss will actually probably just have to chrono warp gate the whole way now and be down a couple of probes PvZ. | ||
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CarachAngren
United States84 Posts
I'm not a toss player but i would think it might help cut down on aggressive 4 gates in pvp too since you cant do the pylon at entrance and warp in zealots on top of the ramp as easily. It's not a huge change spacewise but that pylon has to be much closer to warp in like that and might not be out of range for the defender. | ||
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Slumph
United Kingdom52 Posts
On April 27 2011 00:57 two.watup wrote: 40 seconds is like 26 seconds chronoed. Gold League 4 gates are already 30 seconds late, so this doesnt change much lol Thats a bit like saying oh its fine changing overseer morph time to 10 minutes because you don't see DT's early in gold league.. etc etc, it's about all round balance, league specific balance would be catastrophic. Learn to adapt yourself and apply  | ||
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Suerte
United States117 Posts
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